Meta General MU Help/Discussion

[ScAtt77]

I think this MU spread is over optimistic. If it were true, Mega would be a top5-10 character, and he isn't.
Fox / ZSS are disadvantaged imo, Bowsy no idea, Ike should be evenish

I agree on Mario (and sheik) being very hard. Mii Brawler (if heli kick is available) is just as hard as Mario, but I guess he's banned most of the time so who cares.

I disagree hard on Luigi being as easy as Ganondorf / DDD. And they both might be easier than just +2.

Lucas is not a good matchup for Mega Man, it's probably a losing one imo. The character is just underdeveloped, Magnet heals a lot and nullifies our pellets and he has the combos and kill potential to hurt. Also ungimpable recovery.

Lucario is disadvantaged imo because of problems killing + aura sphere making it hard to use projectiles. If it's mid charged it will eat all our projectiles and keep going. Not very bad but disadvantaged.

Pit (and dark pit) dominate us in the neutral game very hard. Dash attack goes through projectiles and covers a loot of distance, he also has a very strong game when he gains the positional advantage. He's weak when in a bad spot though and kills late (rage). It's a disadvantaged matchup.

Rosalina can avoid Dtilt when recovering :/ It doesn't usually go under the jab, depends on Luma positioning. It's not very bad because of juggling and offstage. Dtilt does kill Luma but needs Rosa to be near the ledge, I usually end up killing Luma with Bair when juggling because dtilt doesn't do the trick. She abuses harder on our recovery than we do on her (although we can definitely get a good gimp). We have some stuff here in our strong gimp and juggle but she should have the upper hand.

MK I think we should lose but it's mostly theorycraft since I haven't played a good MK.

Imo we have advantage over DHD but haven't really played the MU a lot. Mostly cause of weight. He's light and can't kill, and we are heavy and kill... slightly better.

Yoshi is one of Mega's worst matchups IMO (sheik-mario level), his aggro game is very hard to deal with Mega.

TL imo we lose, but I don't have any experience besides getting bodied once in a tournament so I may be biased lol.

Wario and ROB should be disadvantage, ROB mostly cause he outcamps and Wario because we don't have a good enough approach , but they are both winnable I think.

On the not high tiers, Samus is probably even. Zelda imo we win. Same to palutena although slightly. Falco is probably disadvantage. Robin I think we win. We beat bowser, he gets juggled to death.

I don't see it as overly-optimistic as much as Mega Man going even and/or losing to a lot of really important match-ups. Having Sheik and Mario as his worst match ups is already a bad start, but he doesn't really beat any top/high tier characters that solidly. The only notable character that he solidly beats in my opinion is Luigi, but every other top character that he does well against ( Ness, Sonic, Diddy) also lose to easier to play characters (Luigi) or characters that just generally do better against everyone else (Sheik and ZSS). Again, I haven't played enough Zero Suits or enough Foxes to know how those match-ups play out and I do have my suspicions that they have an advantage against MM. However, it only supports the fact that the match ups that he does lose are some of the most common match ups in high level play.

Is it dash attack alone that really gives us that much trouble against the pits? I know upperdash arm is also pretty annoying, but I feel as if they have to commit a bit more to punish us than vice-versa.

Why should we lose to MK? I would normally agree due to his neutral style being very similar to Falcon's, but he doesn't have nearly the same weight or aerials that are nearly as threatening as Falcons, not to mention his aerial mobility is pooh.

I've found that simply rolling backwards, when Yoshi is pressuring you with short hops alleviates a lot of the pressure from him; yes, eggs are annoying, but it's not too hard to simply stay a bit further back to give yourself more room to react.

Personally, I feel as if once we takes ROB's gyro( Not to mention the fact that you can shoot it out of the air), we heavily outcamp ROB. Yes, he can take MB, but he's left with one chargeable projectile while we still have 3 other to abuse. Against Wario, i'm not sure why you would be approaching since MM has enough aerial mobility to give him a run for his money with pellets.

I'm 99% sure that a combination of z-drop MB, d-tilts, and Leaf shield cover almost every single angle that Rosalina can take as far going for the ledge goes; sometimes, she has to go high, lest she be put into the same situation again.

 

[Greward]

@ ScAtt77
Pit's upperdash arm is not that useful. It is usually used to punish landings, recover or overall aerial mobility with platform cancel. If it's not dark pit it can also kill with rage. In neutral it has a very commitment on block, it's slowish and if it hits a projectile it will stop and leave himself quite open. It's easy to punish it with up tilt so he should be very wary of using it.
It's not just about dash attack, but the one move itself is big here. Pit can stay at our best range and we're the ones that are in a bad spot because he has very fast options to cover the space while beating our moves. Still I believe it's -1, mostly due to him being superior in neutral. If we get the advantage we can hit him hard, and he usually will kill at 140~ so we get that rage.

About MK, I don't have notable matchup experience so take it with a grain of salt. I think he is Falcon-like, but without having a bad recovery which is a blessing. He is more slippery than Falcon and has virtually no lag on anything, making it hard to land a kill move (he is lighter though). Doesn't get hit with air shooter as much as Falcon neither. He should be good at gimping us too.

Yoshi is a special topic since american yoshis are not very good (played Raptor in APEX) and in europe Yoshi is a super played character, probably only Yoshi and Greninja are more advanced in europe than in USA. Eggs aren't the problem at all, if he's gonna go full time camp we win the MU. He ignores projectiles because of how fast he is in the air. He's Mario-like, he gets in our face easily and throws out his superb frame data leaving no room for anything + very strong combos and overall super pressure. Weak point of Yoshi is he has a hard time getting a kill move and sometimes Mega can drag it out long and get some needed damage. Usmash is pretty good in this MU too. Rolling backwards is somewhat helpful but if yoshi is going full aggro (which he should) we will be left without room to roll back soon. And even roll may be punishable depending on how he lands.

On Rosalina I don't think these are as huge as you say. She can just recover with upB, get hit by dtilt, then recover again with double jump and she won't have much problem. Recovering high doesn't have as commitment since once the animation stops Luma can attack (if she has no luma then yeah it's not as good). Using Leaf shield means you can't dtilt, and while it is good against upB if she has double jump it won't work. So imo both options aren't as useful as straight going for back air or another aerial (strong nair, dair).
Still we got stuff on Rosalina, but our main strength here imo is back air, it gives a hell of a time to Rosalina in both the air and offstage and kills Luma. Offstage if you get the read you will probably kill her and she has to avoid it with just upB direction.
It's not really bad for Mega but I think Rosa has a slight advantage here, but even is plausible too.

About stealing ROB's gyro and then outcamping, looks pretty solid but is very demanding. It's similar to what I did with Brawl Olimar though. We also have a strong gimp game on him, could be even, but usually I feel like I have to either gimp or get a low% kill to win the MU.

Wario is just a long drawn out fight where he gets multiple wafts that kill super early. He doesn't suffer as much because he can stall a lot in most stages and our damage output is low + bad kill options which can make games long = more wafts. He also can gimp our Rush recovery easily. Might be just me being bad at the MU but I dislike it a lot and feel it's bad.




I agree with Mario being worse than Sheik. He is easily Mega's worst matchup.

 

[CopShowGuy]

My crew has a good Yoshi, Pit, Mario, Fox, Rosalina, and ZSS (among other characters). Fox can be a bit problematic because the threat of running usmash is always there from him. Our Pit player is better than me in general, but I have a hard time closing stocks on him most of the time. Pit has much safer kill moves and much safer positioning moves than Mega Man does. And no good Pit/Dark Pit will ever throw out Dash Upper in neutral. It's a bad idea.

Rosalina isn't terrible to fight. Sometimes landing with her on stage is troublesome because her uair and usmash go through Leaf Shield. Our Yoshi is one of our better players and he's really good at mixing things up. The most important thing vs Yoshi is to just get him to stop moving for a second to stop his momentum.

 

[Funkermonster]

Been holding off on this for a while because I know how controversial this could be, but here's how I personally feel about quite a few of MM's match ups

-2:

-1:

0: /

+1: /

+2:

Undecided/ Lack of match up experience:


(ZSS and Fox are probably -1, but that's just me theory-crafting. I have absolutely 0 BJ experience and very little Ike experience).

As for some of the more controversial opinions:

• Yes, I think that Mario is that bad; his aerial mobility in combination with the threat of cape and a pretty hard to gimp recovery make this mu very frustrating. Heck, I've lost to Mario more than to Sheik in tourneys at this point.
• Pika's neutral is definitely a threat to MM, but Pika has to respect pellets since it's so good at stopping his usual gameplan (QA and/or TJolt follow ups).
• Rosalina is abused far too well when she's offstage; d-tilt is the mvp in this match up since it prevents her from sweetspotting the ledge, it auto-kills luma, and it also goes under Rosalina's Jab. MM's aerials cleanly beat hers when spaced properly and she has a really hard time dealing with Leaf shield approaches with out Luma.

TL;DR : God I miss rush canceling cause we would have little to no losing match-ups with it.

Any reason why you don't find or negative (would personally also ask about MK, Pit/Dark Pit, Lucario, Yoshi, & Wario, but Greward did already)? Or I don't suppose you'd have any pointers on what to do against them? I personally don't do well against Olimar or Toon Link so I may just be biased there.

I also don't have too much experience myself, but I can't see it being anything but MM's favor. His approach game is pretty terrible (dare I say his greatest weakness) and he can't really do much to get in vs. lemons, he lacks mobility and doesn't have any move safe enough to approach with. On top of that, Junior also has a horrible grab that's almost as slow as a tether grab (and it doesn't even have the range of a tether grab), and he doesn't have a combo/kill throw or any other moves he can use to threaten shields with, so I find that shielding can do wonders against him.

 

[ScAtt77]

Any reason why you don't find or negative (would personally also ask about MK, Pit/Dark Pit, Lucario, Yoshi, & Wario, but Greward did already)? Or I don't suppose you'd have any pointers on what to do against them? I personally don't do well against Olimar or Toon Link so I may just be biased there.

I also don't have too much experience myself, but I can't see it being anything but MM's favor. His approach game is pretty terrible (dare I say his greatest weakness) and he can't really do much to get in vs. lemons, he lacks mobility and doesn't have any move safe enough to approach with. On top of that, Junior also has a horrible grab that's almost as slow as a tether grab (and it doesn't even have the range of a tether grab), and he doesn't have a combo/kill throw or any other moves he can use to threaten shields with, so I find that shielding can do wonders against him.

: His lack of oos options means our pellet pressure works even better against him than usual; on top of this, we have more than enough speed and range to challenge several of Greninja's bnb neutral options. His n-air and f-air are outsped and outranged by MM's F-air and b-air. We also don't really falter too much to Hydro Pump Shenanigans since it tends to just push us higher when we're recovering. Pellets trade with uncharged shuriken so Greninja has to commit to a charged shuriken to actually deal with pellet pressure.

: Admittedly, I've only played against one competent Olimar (Myran) in a serious set, but I feel as if neither character has the tools to completely shut the other out. Pellets are stuffed by Pikmin, but that's where MB comes in handy since it cuts right through pikmin toss barring purples. Easiest way that I've found to get pikmin off is to Rush Coil -> U-air on the way down -> bounce off rush into said U-air. If he's in the air, all of his aerials just lose to all of our aerials. Granted, his damage output is leagues above MM, but luckily, we have the weight to take it all.

: Pellets > everything Toon Link throws at us except bombs (Bombs themselves lose to a thrown Leaf Shield iirc). Z-drop MB + Leaf shield pressures him extremely well when we edge-guard him, while he can't really do much to challenge our recovery offstage. If he gets in, u-tilt hurts, but again, I feel as if our superior kill options and weight aid us here.

: Bonus Fruits aren't really the biggest hassle in this match-up imo; You really only have to keep an eye out for the melon, key, and bell. Melon > all of MM's projectiles bar thrown leaf shield and manually thrown MB (Key beats everything ). However, just shielding it gives you ample time to catch it afterwards. Personally, I feel as if Hydrant is our biggest worry; to deal with it, obviously shooting crash bomber is not a bad option, but I've found that timing a Mega Upper just as the water spouts out gives you a really big "boost", effectively 1-shotting the hydrant while keeping MM relatively safe. As far as Power Pellet shenanigans go, yes he can deploy one to stop lemons, but all of MM's other projectiles deal with it quite thoroughly; MB cuts straight through it, crash bomb detonates on contact with the pellet preventing Pac Man from eating it, and Leaf Shield goes straight through it.

Again, i'm not saying that any of these match-ups are in Mega Man's favor. In my opinion, he has the tools in these match-ups to make it close to even. Honestly, i'm curious as to why you guys think those match-ups aren't even outside of Sheik and Mario. Not saying that those are his only two bad match-ups, but I feel as if 's neutral is great enough to handle most of the tools that the cast throws at him.

 

[Nu~]

: His lack of oos options means our pellet pressure works even better against him than usual; on top of this, we have more than enough speed and range to challenge several of Greninja's bnb neutral options. His n-air and f-air are outsped and outranged by MM's F-air and b-air. We also don't really falter too much to Hydro Pump Shenanigans since it tends to just push us higher when we're recovering. Pellets trade with uncharged shuriken so Greninja has to commit to a charged shuriken to actually deal with pellet pressure.

: Admittedly, I've only played against one competent Olimar (Myran) in a serious set, but I feel as if neither character has the tools to completely shut the other out. Pellets are stuffed by Pikmin, but that's where MB comes in handy since it cuts right through pikmin toss barring purples. Easiest way that I've found to get pikmin off is to Rush Coil -> U-air on the way down -> bounce off rush into said U-air. If he's in the air, all of his aerials just lose to all of our aerials. Granted, his damage output is leagues above MM, but luckily, we have the weight to take it all.

: Pellets > everything Toon Link throws at us except bombs (Bombs themselves lose to a thrown Leaf Shield iirc). Z-drop MB + Leaf shield pressures him extremely well when we edge-guard him, while he can't really do much to challenge our recovery offstage. If he gets in, u-tilt hurts, but again, I feel as if our superior kill options and weight aid us here.

: Bonus Fruits aren't really the biggest hassle in this match-up imo; You really only have to keep an eye out for the melon, key, and bell. Melon > all of MM's projectiles bar thrown leaf shield and manually thrown MB (Key beats everything ). However, just shielding it gives you ample time to catch it afterwards. Personally, I feel as if Hydrant is our biggest worry; to deal with it, obviously shooting crash bomber is not a bad option, but I've found that timing a Mega Upper just as the water spouts out gives you a really big "boost", effectively 1-shotting the hydrant while keeping MM relatively safe. As far as Power Pellet shenanigans go, yes he can deploy one to stop lemons, but all of MM's other projectiles deal with it quite thoroughly; MB cuts straight through it, crash bomb detonates on contact with the pellet preventing Pac Man from eating it, and Leaf Shield goes straight it.

Again, i'm not saying that any of these match-ups are in Mega Man's favor. In my opinion, he has the tools in these match-ups to make it close to even. Honestly, i'm curious as to why you guys think those match-ups aren't even outside of Sheik and Mario. Not saying that those are his only two bad match-ups, but I feel as if 's neutral is great enough to handle most of the tools that the cast throws at him.

I agree with your analysis on the pacman matchup, but you didn't include your options against our trampoline. Mega man can't jump over it safely due to his poor landing options, and any pellet usage/ crash bomber usage will be absorbed by a dropped power pellet. We can continue to charge to whatever fruit we want until you decide to gamble and jump over, or throw metal blades and hope that we don't catch it.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I agree with your list for the most part, I just would move zzs, pika, and fox to -1

 

[Diamond Octobot]

I agree with your analysis on the pacman matchup, but you didn't include your options against our trampoline. Mega man can't jump over it safely due to his poor landing options, and any pellet usage/ crash bomber usage will be absorbed by a dropped power pellet. We can continue to charge to whatever fruit we want until you decide to gamble and jump over, or throw metal blades and hope that we don't catch it.

You know, unless the Bonus Fruit is in your hand, we can still use Rush as an Emergency Eject button to dodge pretty much everything bar the Bell, or we can fastfall on a grounded Rush to wait for an opportunity to land with something. (which means MINDGAMES, cuz it's FUN)

 

[ScAtt77]

I agree with your analysis on the pacman matchup, but you didn't include your options against our trampoline. Mega man can't jump over it safely due to his poor landing options, and any pellet usage/ crash bomber usage will be absorbed by a dropped power pellet. We can continue to charge to whatever fruit we want until you decide to gamble and jump over, or throw metal blades and hope that we don't catch it.

Also, I'm not sure why Mega Man would actually need to jump over a trampoline (unless Pacman has a significant lead) considering the fact that he still has usable projectiles that aren't really hindered by the trampoline being there. Leaf Shield is still a thing that cuts through a dropped power pellet. Tossing a Leaf Shield followed by a MB generally is enough to get to move or to stop charging his fruit.

 

[Jehtt]

I agree with your list for the most part, I just would move zzs, pika, and fox to -1

I don't agree with Pika. One of the best defenses against Pikachu is being able to constantly have hitboxes out, and Mega Man has the tools to do that. Leaf Shield, Lemons, and U-Smash are all great against his quick attack. Once you've made him scared to use Up B, he has to approach through other ways that you can stop with standard mega man stuff. Yeah, he does a fair amount of damage once he gets in but he's a lot easier to keep away than someone like Sheik or Mario.
Try not to let him take you to Lylat cruise though... it'll be harder to use projectiles on that stage.

 

[Greward]

On Pika, quick attack outprioritizes pellets, so it's not the best thing to do against them. Still since we are moving while doing pellet it's gonna be hard for him to approach with it even if he reads the pellets, cause we will just reset the distance.

So i'm gonna post my "optimistic" list. It's still way worse than @ ScAtt77 's tho.

-3:
-2:
-1.5:
-1:
0:
+1:
+2:
+3:

Not much idea on some of them (mewtwo, puff, bowser jr, MK, wii fit, roy, pacman) but whatever.
Toon Link I personally find it hard but since in japan Mega's do good against TL i'm gonna put it even since it may be personal.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

Ok first of all I think we have the advantage againt R.O.B because his hitbox is huge and doing ftilt to nair is really easy on the ground and in the air we can juggle him with fairs also his projectiles are really easy to avoid sure maybe gyro keeps rolling but just avoid get hit by it and camp with thrown leafshield or get close and grab with leafshield. Also you can end his stock with bairs. And for Mario, why do people think it is so bad? I havent played the MU lately but I remember having it even or even winning it. Mario's close game is freaking terrifying but we can zone him with constant jumping lemons until he is at kill percentages and then we can use bthrow to end his stock.

 

[Sorichuudo]

And for Mario, why do people think it is so bad?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr6NBmYHGj0


Scatt is a great megaman. Ally is a great mario. This set is the result.

Now, i know we cannot judge a mu based on a single set, but put this together with what most of our best players think and the fact that most of the time we see Megaman vs Mario in a tourney, it ends with Mario winning, that's probably why people think it's so bad.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Lemons don't shut him down as much as we need them to. For some reason he is really good at getting in past lemons.

If we get pushed to the edge of the stage it is very hard for us to get past Mario. His smashes are so lagless it makes getting punished super easy.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

what do you think of the Rosalina MU?

 

[Mega-Spider]

what do you think of the Rosalina MU?

Honestly, I don't think the Rosalina MU is one of Rock's worst MU's. As a matter of opinion, I think it's an even match up. Metal Blade and Crash Bomber do great damage to Luma and we can take it out fairly easily. Rosalina's also pretty light so she's more susceptible to U-Tilts, B-Airs, and B-Throws. The only things that get in the way are the Gravitational Pull negating many of our attacks and Luma itself. With the Gravitational Pull, I often like to bait them into using it, so I can get an U-Tilt or U-Smash in, but I think Gravitational Pull needs more lag for that option to be safer. Luma doesn't really need explaining, especially with that ridiculous U-Air stuff. Rosalina's tough to fight, but she's not impossible, and when it comes to this match up, patience and timing are crucial.

 

[ravemaster47]

Agreed. I don't like the matchup. But it's definitely not as hard when you know n the matchup.

 

[Funkermonster]

Yo guys, the boards are (sort of) discussing us right now. http://smashboards.com/threads/mastery-of-the-arts-greninja-matchup-thread-on-break-general-mu-discussion-9-21-10-5.369356/page-28#post-20186325 Come on in and help give your thoughts.

 

[Curisu]

Just wondering... Why are all the matchup discussions crammed into two threads rather than made in seperate threads? It would be a lot more organized and a lot less daunting if we weren't cramming everything into 20 pages. Other boards have multiple matchup threads. Why is ours different?

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I agree I think it would be much easier to find info on a matchup in its own thread than in a large topic. Could we possibly make a subforum just for individual matchup threads? Like one for each character?

 

[ravemaster47]

I think it would also help people from.other boards to find the thread in question and better organize our forums.

 

[Locke 06]

Then do it.

 

[Sorichuudo]

To be fair, when previously asked if we should change the way our MU thread works, everyone told Locke that it was fine as it is.

Now, if you guys think we should change it, i think we could steal- i mean, take the format some other character forums use.

The Link boards come to mind, they have the main thread, with an index directing to other small threads with MU discussion for each character.
Anyone up to the task? PS: Keep calling it Zero's Advice tho. Its nice.
Also, if we want to better organize our forums, we should reaaaally stop making a new thread for every question/tournament information/event etc, since we do have a Q&A and a social thread for that kind of stuff.

 

[Curisu]

Then do it.

We can't. They get locked and redirected. That's why I figured we could talk about it here and get the okay for it.
http://smashboards.com/threads/megaman-vs-samus-and-other-matchups.414460/

To be fair, when previously asked if we should change the way our MU thread works, everyone told Locke that it was fine as it is.

Now, if you guys think we should change it, i think we could steal- i mean, take the format some other character forums use.

The Link boards come to mind, they have the main thread, with an index directing to other small threads with MU discussion for each character.
Anyone up to the task? PS: Keep calling it Zero's Advice tho. Its nice.
Also, if we want to better organize our forums, we should reaaaally stop making a new thread for every question/tournament information/event etc, since we do have a Q&A and a social thread for that kind of stuff.

I agree with this. The Rosalina and Sheik boards are set up like this too. I went to their boards to figure out some match-up information, that's when I realized our boards could be set up to be more productive.

 

[Mega-Spider]

If we go ahead and make individual threads for match ups, how would you guys like to approach this? Would you want to start with the disadvantageous match ups, the advantageous match ups, or evens? Personally, we should work our way up from worst match ups to even to advantageous, so we can learn about the disadvantageous match ups so we can at least stand a somewhat better chance against them.

 

[Locke 06]

We can't. They get locked and redirected. That's why I figured we could talk about it here and get the okay for it.
http://smashboards.com/threads/megaman-vs-samus-and-other-matchups.414460/

You can if you make it organized and talk to ---.

 

[ScAtt77]

Quick side note from MLG:

After everything was said and done, I played a few friendlies with Ally and I now no longer think that Mario is MM's worst match-up; it's definitely still not in MM's favor, but i'm almost certain that Sheik is worse than Mario now.

 

[Drarky]

Quick side note from MLG:

After everything was said and done, I played a few friendlies with Ally and I now no longer think that Mario is MM's worst match-up; it's definitely still not in MM's favor, but i'm almost certain that Sheik is worse than Mario now.

I've always felt like the Mario MU was a little bit overrated when it comes down to it, but I would love to hear some further explanation about your thoughts on it and why did you change your mind.

 

[Sorichuudo]

Quick side note from MLG:

After everything was said and done, I played a few friendlies with Ally and I now no longer think that Mario is MM's worst match-up; it's definitely still not in MM's favor, but i'm almost certain that Sheik is worse than Mario now.

Well, i still think it is pretty bad, but i can see Sheik being worse at high level.
Also congratulations man, you rock, and you rock hard! hope that didn't sound wrong...

 

[ravemaster47]

You did us proud ScAtt77 ! Way to rep the blue bomber!

 

[Mega-Spider]

I consider this a good day for us. Would I have liked to see ScAtt make it to Top 5? Yeah, but let's be real here: Getting Top 8 in MLG with a mid-tier like Megs is a victory in of itself. I see ScAtt as an inspiration after that event, and I need to see his tournament videos to see what I can pick up.
Congrats ScAtt for getting our Blue Bomber to a top spot.

 

[Greward]

Since Mr R trashed me some weeks ago I really wanted to see how you would do against him. It was about the same lol.

I can agree with your opinion after playing Mr R too. Sheik looks very hard. I haven't played ally though so it's hard to compare.

I think the matchups we have a clear disadvantage are Sheik / Fox / Mario / ZSS / Falcon , although I definitely lack experience in quite some matchups.

We beat sonic IMO. Actually I think we can be his worst matchup.
Diddy/Ness maybe too but they aren't an easy time.
We should beat Ryu.
Villager? Not sure.
DK/Luigi are good too, if they are still thought to be high tier.

We might be borderline high tier. Or in that tier list of "good mid tiers". Although Rock has some awful matchups that require a secondary I think he's relatively viable. Or I'm just that optimist lately lol.

btw scatt, who did you lose to in winner brackets?

 

[CopShowGuy]

Yeah, ScAtt. Nice work. That was some good stuff to watch. Shame it had to end for you the way it did though. That Sheik was rough.

I still like to think Mega Man does very well vs Villager.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Since Mr R trashed me some weeks ago I really wanted to see how you would do against him. It was about the same lol.

I can agree with your opinion after playing Mr R too. Sheik looks very hard. I haven't played ally though so it's hard to compare.

I think the matchups we have a clear disadvantage are Sheik / Fox / Mario / ZSS / Falcon , although I definitely lack experience in quite some matchups.

We beat sonic IMO. Actually I think we can be his worst matchup.
Diddy/Ness maybe too but they aren't an easy time.
We should beat Ryu.
Villager? Not sure.
DK/Luigi are good too, if they are still thought to be high tier.

We might be borderline high tier. Or in that tier list of "good mid tiers". Although Rock has some awful matchups that require a secondary I think he's relatively viable. Or I'm just that optimist lately lol.

btw scatt, who did you lose to in winner brackets?

I wouldn't say Fox outright defeats us, because both him and Megs, while having good kill moves, require a good amount of commitment. My sparring partner's a Fox main, so he taught me a few things about Fox. It's still not in our favor, but I wouldn't say it's unwinnable; just very difficult.
I can see Megs either being low high tier or very high mid tier. He does have some pretty bad MU's with some of the higher tiers, but think of the high tier characters he has a good or even chance against: Luigi, Ness, Sonic, Rosalina and Luma; characters that are said to be incredibly good, and Megs can stand up to them, which in of itself is incredible. Yeah, characters like Mario, ZSS, and Sheik give Megs hell, but I'd say those high tiers he can stand up against matter a lot.

Yeah, ScAtt. Nice work. That was some good stuff to watch. Shame it had to end for you the way it did though. That Sheik was rough.

I still like to think Mega Man does very well vs Villager.

I have very little experience with the v match up, so can you give some advice as to how Megs can take out Villager?

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I have faced some great villagers and I feel we have the matchup in our advantage. They try to camp us out and it is very tough to out camp mega.

Mb goes through the tree and we can just spam Mb and cb to keep the Lloyd rockets at bay.

Fox I think is very slightly disadvantageous.

Greward hit the nail on the head with our bad matchups.

 

[Sorichuudo]

Another thing about Villager, pocketing MB does jack****, we can just spawn another. It leads to some fun stuff like taking the MB he pocketed away from him, while still being able to use our own. Played a Villager in the ladder a long time ago, and played some in my FB group too. I don't think we lose this one, we don't have a huge advantedge either, but i don't see us losing.

 

[CopShowGuy]

Yeah. It's all about the Metal Blades in the MU. It goes through near everything he puts up that he otherwise uses so well to keep people out. Him pocketing it does nothing to us. Obviously using Fsmash is forbidden until something else is in his pocket. Villagers also love to try and use Air Shooter against us as the knockback increase they get from it is crazy. Stealing Leaf Shield is also a good one for them to pocket. Honestly, I'm aware that my MU experience with him is outdated by now. Our crew has no Villager main so I don't face good ones frequently.

I have noticed that most of them rely on fair/bair as their go-to move. It can be bustered out of the air, but the curve of the shot makes it hard to do that. He's a character that we're better off staying at mid range with (our ideal pellet range). Some of his better moves take too much set-up in that range. Our recovery is in huge danger from his fsmash though. We're forced to recover high versus Villager.

 

[Curisu]

You can if you make it organized and talk to ---.

Well thanks for telling me. I thought it just wasn't allowed.

I think that if this were to become a thing on this board, someone who can stay dedicated to keeping up the first post in the thread should make the threads. Either we could have multiple people do it or just have one person do it. If I learn stuff better I will, but as it is now I don't have the time to give to the upkeep of threads. It's just something that I would like to see that would be beneficial to everyone.

If we go ahead and make individual threads for match ups, how would you guys like to approach this? Would you want to start with the disadvantageous match ups, the advantageous match ups, or evens? Personally, we should work our way up from worst match ups to even to advantageous, so we can learn about the disadvantageous match ups so we can at least stand a somewhat better chance against them.

"If we go ahead" and do this, it would be cool if the info in these threads got organized. Then honestly I don't really know where to go from there. I don't see why we can't have multiple going at once as long as they stay dedicated to one character.

 

[Lufos]

Well thanks for telling me. I thought it just wasn't allowed.

I think that if this were to become a thing on this board, someone who can stay dedicated to keeping up the first post in the thread should make the threads. Either we could have multiple people do it or just have one person do it. If I learn stuff better I will, but as it is now I don't have the time to give to the upkeep of threads. It's just something that I would like to see that would be beneficial to everyone.



"If we go ahead" and do this, it would be cool if the info in these threads got organized. Then honestly I don't really know where to go from there. I don't see why we can't have multiple going at once as long as they stay dedicated to one character.

Can't we just have one thread for each character from the start? That way people can start discussing whatever character they feel like discussing. Then the main thread can slowly be filled with summaries from each and one of these.

EDIT:
Somehow I missed to read your post even though I read it... You were basically writing what I wrote in my post

EDIT2:
Also I'd love to help organize things, even though my experience in these kind of things is pretty much nonexistent.

 

[Unclesatan]

yeah... scrolling through an insane 20 page thread with 50 posts per page with each post hosting at least 2-5 paragraphs

it would definitely help to have it organized. or maybe it would be cool to have a MU subforum where all these threads can be organized into