General ICs Q&A Thread

[X-FACTOR]

~~~~~~~~~WOOT! CONGRADULATIONS!~~~~~~~~

We're in A tier guys, IC FTW!

Although if you ask me I think IC have potential to be S tier. We did move up a lot, but I know we can move up even more. Everyone keep representing the IC and do well.


So my question is...

What do you think about our placement?, (optional) and why?

Do you think we can go higher?, (optional) and why?

 

[Cold Fusion]

Yes there's a thread about it here somewhere, but I forgot where it is.

The timing's weird though; so far I can only do it on Marth. >_<

It's also possible to do it with other throws.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

What do you think about our placement?, (optional) and why?

I think it's slightly lower than where we should be, but still pretty close.

Do you think we can go higher?, (optional) and why?

Yeah, but I expect the bat**** insane CP levels keep us out of S tier.

 

[l3lue2ain]

what is the best way to di with the ice climbers?

 

[Hylian]

what is the best way to di with the ice climbers?

That is a really vague question. Not quite sure what kind of answer you are looking for.

The best way to DI with climbers is the same as any other character. For surviving, perpendicular. For multihit attack, depends.

 

[momochuu]

If you mean like...staying alive, go to the ICs guide for that. I think UpAir is the fastest and best aerial for momentum canceling. Everything else is normal DI stuff.

...

*Goes to bed* >_>

 

[l3lue2ain]

That is a really vague question. Not quite sure what kind of answer you are looking for.

The best way to DI with climbers is the same as any other character. For surviving, perpendicular. For multihit attack, depends.

what i ment by that is like for example metaknight's up smash is like his fast aerial so he use's it momentum cancel to di back on to the stage.

-thanks Kawaii

 

[Bellioes]

Well since no ones answering dj Iskascribbles question, Ill take a shot at it
I believe hes just doing the pivot desynch but really fast so you barely see it. If hes popping his shield before, was he in the middle of a run before that cause Ive seen him several times do a shield outve runs to cancel the run followed by the pivot desynch.
Hope that answered your question.

 

[CELTiiC]

Edit: NVM I figured it out that I was just missing Bowser.

 

[l3lue2ain]

I feel as I should post my progress as I also post my question of the day. First off to everyone that has been helping know that it is helping and i did my first successful forward throw. Also did some back throws and even a hobble but not all together or very consistent yet...

Anyway my question of the day is this.Lets say i forward throw someone to nana. I don't know how to control her properly. Like if i press forward she does not throw all that happens is popo moves forward. (if i am pressing it lightly). If i tap it he dashes forward. completely missing the grab. But sometimes even though he dashes way past me the person still gets grabbed and then thrown. while the CPu catches up.

So my question is how do I use her has fast as i can use popo.

from Popo --->Nana no problems
Nana --->Popo problems.

 

[Shadowblazen]

Anyway my question of the day is this.Lets say i forward throw someone to nana. I don't know how to control her properly. Like if i press forward she does not throw all that happens is popo moves forward. (if i am pressing it lightly). If i tap it he dashes forward. completely missing the grab. But sometimes even though he dashes way past me the person still gets grabbed and then thrown. while the CPu catches up.

So my question is how do I use her has fast as i can use popo.

from Popo --->Nana no problems
Nana --->Popo problems.

I think you're talking about F-throw chains, right? For practicing, I definitely recommend you start with Bowser: he's heavy so you don't have to react as fast (timing), and he has a very large frame which means you don't have to be as precise with the spacing. I'm sure that other people would also recommend Bowser.

Now, to attempt to answer your question, it's about HOW you're pressing forward on the control stick (obviously). I don't just tap forward or press lightly forward with one single intensity. I press forward gradually, so that the control stick is eventually as far to the right or left as it will go. When I say gradually and eventually, this can be deceptive since it all happens in less than a second. But what I'm trying to emphasize is that I don't just slam forward on the control stick. I vary the intensity so that at first I'm pressing lightly and then I gradually press harder and harder until the control stick won't go over any further. Once it won't go any further, I release it back to it's neutral position and then press the grab button. It's much more of a fluid motion than a jerky one. By mastering this motion, you can have Popo walk forward before Nana starts to throw, or you can have Nana throw and Popo walk forward at more or less the same time. If Popo is dashing forward then you're pressing over too hard too fast. This is just how I think about it of course, so if my description works for you, great. If it doesn't, sorry I wasn't helpful >_<

One more thing (that you might already know). When you press a button, Nana reacts a little slower than Popo does. I don't know exactly how many frames (can someone please confirm?) this delay is. But this means is that the timing for the regrab is different for Nana than it is for Popo. With Popo you want to try to grab at the last possible instant as the person is thrown. With Nana you have to press the grab button a little sooner than you would press it if you were trying to regrab with Popo. This could be another problem you're having when trying to regrab with Popo--you're pressing the button too soon thinking the timing is the same for Popo as it is when you regrab with Nana. Out of all the chain grabs, it's most important to be aware of this timing difference when doing F-throw chains in my opinion.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

What what stages would you ban when facing snake, and what would you CP against him from a strategic point?

 

[Cold Fusion]

When you press a button, Nana reacts a little slower than Popo does. I don't know exactly how many frames (can someone please confirm?) this delay is.

I have read that it is six frames. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

[tEhrXXz0r]

Anyone know someone who can reliably chain grab on wifi?

 

[lain]

I can do it perfectly. So can KawaiiBunny and this guy named l!nk_aut afaik.

But I don't play online. aahaha. Maybe one day I will pick it up again.

 

[swordgard]

I can do it perfectly. So can KawaiiBunny and this guy named l!nk_aut afaik.

But I don't play online. aahaha. Maybe one day I will pick it up again.

He cant do it perfectly on snake from what ive seen (l!nk)

 

[l!nk_aut]

He cant do it perfectly on snake from what ive seen (l!nk)

yo i only got some probs when i really don´t want to hobble (yeah in our matches i sometimes messed-up with the hobbling but normaly i don´t ^^)

but i can bthrow dthrow him very well =)

anyway.. snake´s a *****

 

[momochuu]

Chaingrabbing online isn't that difficult if you learn how to do it offline well. The timing's just a bit different, but not by that much.

 

[tEhrXXz0r]

Chaingrabbing online isn't that difficult if you learn how to do it offline well. The timing's just a bit different, but not by that much.

Yeah, you're right. I tried it online and I noticed very little timing adjustments, but otherwise it's the same.

The only thing I noticed is that you can't de-sync at the very start of the match (by holding B) like what Lain, or any other ICs, does. Why is that? Input lag maybe?

 

[momochuu]

Actually, you can. Technically anyway.

When you hold B at the stage select screen, they'll be desynched at the practice room, but not the actual match. I really wish that could have fixed that. You can press start to desynch though.

 

[kackamee]

Chibi can CG super well online. He makes it look really cool, it's like...being in a fireworks show...but...you take more damage

 

[Bellioes]

I was watching COB4 vids and in the Lain vs Arty matchs, Lain somehow desynched while on the ledge. What happened was he Up-B back with Nana and then a second later, Nana would do the jump from ledge while Popo would ledge hop to Side-B. He would then make Nana do a falling blizzard and then he followed it up with a Uair. It seemes like a combo to me and it was really cool. Can anyone tell me how he desynched from the ledge?

 

[Chileno4Live]

Okay so, i sorta find Ice Climbers an awesome character. So i want to use them, but i have some questions actually

1. I can do the Fthrow and the Dthrow on most of the characters, but it's timing varies with the character i'm facing. Is there a specfic timing for all characters i can follow? Because i think that i can't remember all the timings and all x.x I'm hard learning anyway, practicing everyday So yeah, is there a timing or do you just have any tips?

2. When the opponent is at higher damage, around 60 or so, it's really getting difficult to keep the timing in tact. What do i need to do when they are on higher percentages?

3 This might've been asked a lot, but how do you desync? I know there are different ways, so i just list some techniques i wanna learn:

-Blizzard and Ice Block (1 does blizzard and the other 1 ice block)
-SH blizzard approach. (You know, that they jump and SH to create a some sort of wall)
-Maybe some other useful one??

4. When you're at the edge, and you want to spike someone (im a spike freak seriously), it doesn't always work. How can i time it so it does?

I hope these questions can be answered.

Thnx in advance

 

[l!nk_aut]

1. no there is not a specific timing for all characters
2. grab faster
3. most common desynchs are: pivot desynch, dashdance desynch, buffer desynch, hitlag desynch, belay desynch. after that you can use any move to keep them deynched.
4. i think you´ll get it when you try around a bit.

 

[Roxas215]

Ok so i think i want to pick up the ice climbers. I main peach with my secondary being diddy. Both chars get pwned by marth and mk(i know diddy is suppose to be 50 50 with mk but my diddy gets pwned by him lol) I also have problems with tl and zss. I think picking up the ice climbers will compliment my other 2 chars pretty well. I have a couple of questions though.

1.How hard is the learning curve for ic's? Im talking about all cg's different desyncs blizzard walk and just about all the other AT'S ill need to use ic's in tournament level play

2. Do the cg's have different timing for different chars?

 

[FrozenHobo]

Ok so i think i want to pick up the ice climbers. I main peach with my secondary being diddy. Both chars get pwned by marth and mk(i know diddy is suppose to be 50 50 with mk but my diddy gets pwned by him lol) I also have problems with tl and zss. I think picking up the ice climbers will compliment my other 2 chars pretty well. I have a couple of questions though.

1.How hard is the learning curve for ic's? Im talking about all cg's different desyncs blizzard walk and just about all the other AT'S ill need to use ic's in tournament level play

2. Do the cg's have different timing for different chars?

1) depends, but usually kinda high

2) yes

 

[CELTiiC]

Ok so i think i want to pick up the ice climbers. I main peach with my secondary being diddy. Both chars get pwned by marth and mk(i know diddy is suppose to be 50 50 with mk but my diddy gets pwned by him lol) I also have problems with tl and zss. I think picking up the ice climbers will compliment my other 2 chars pretty well. I have a couple of questions though.

1.How hard is the learning curve for ic's? Im talking about all cg's different desyncs blizzard walk and just about all the other AT'S ill need to use ic's in tournament level play

2. Do the cg's have different timing for different chars?

1.) The learning curve is hard. It takes a lot of practice to get good at that stuff.

2.) Yes it's a different timing for each character.

My question: What's the best chain grab to use against Metaknight?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

whatever makes him die

 

[Teh Future]

Almost everyone will use popo back throw to nana on light characters because it can be done fast and is fairly easy to learn for most people. Either follow up with another bthrow, dthrow, or fthrow back to popo depending on what you find best for you.

Bellios: when you use ICs upB to the ledge it desyncs them just like when you use their upB on the stage. Just because they are both grabbing the ledge does not mean they are dysynced again. Lain just ledge jumped when they were already dysynced.

Philly: I honestly dont think that ICs is a good character choice for you. ICs do best on neutral stages, like Peach (?) and Diddy. I tried it, it just doesn't work well. Plus for your ICs to compete with MKs it really does have to know the ins and outs of the character to be able to recover corectly, save and protect nana, and desync fast and be able to punish accordingly when you are desynced.

 

[Roxas215]

Philly: I honestly dont think that ICs is a good character choice for you. ICs do best on neutral stages, like Peach (?) and Diddy. I tried it, it just doesn't work well. Plus for your ICs to compete with MKs it really does have to know the ins and outs of the character to be able to recover corectly, save and protect nana, and desync fast and be able to punish accordingly when you are desynced.

Yea i mean im not expecting to become nice with the ic's overnight. I understand they have one of if not the hardest learning curves in the game. I've been messing with them for the past 2 days. I got the fthrow and dthrow cg's down but the bthrow one. OMG. this is like the hardest thing in the game.

However im way more concerned about learning all the different desyncs and uair combos. As of now i can do the dash dance special desync pretty well. I dont really get the belay one though.

Plus im not putting ic's over peach and diddy. I just want a 3rd char i can rely on when i know my peach and diddy just wont cut it. I also thought about picking up marth but...........

 

[momochuu]

Belay desynch is dumb. Don't bother.

Also, it's nice to see someone pick up the ICs and not run right to the CGs like most others do. Good luck! :3

 

[FrozenHobo]

However im way more concerned about learning all the different desyncs and uair combos. As of now i can do the dash dance special desync pretty well. I dont really get the belay one though.

now when you say belay, do you mean when you just use belay, when you're using it as a tether, what? or are you talking when you try to recover and nana just makes you do the sopo animation?


also, for additional desyncs you can try implementing hitlag (is that teh right term?) desync where you continue pressing buttons while hitting an opponent. its not dificult to do, but i'm having trouble thinking of how to explain it....


i ahve to congratulate you on not rushing to CGs. it really makes me feel like you're interested in learning the character and not just the CGs.

 

[l!nk_aut]

i really won´t pick up the ic´s for a 3rd character... takes too much time for a "3rd"

 

[Diddyknight]

One character i get annoyed when i fight is: Marth. The dancing blade kind of splits the couple and Fair has good enough range even though blizzard can compete with it. As for approaches....Desync wall of blizz is what i do but they somehow get around it. i tried to Dtilt/Jab but rarely works. Need help T_T

 

[Rohan]

guys im starting to pick up icys and ive gotten the cg down on all chars but bowser, d3, dk, snake, rob,and wario. i need help cging them. also i cant use fthrow cg cause my nana always runs forward i can only do bthrow dthrow.

 

[Diddyknight]

guys im starting to pick up icys and ive gotten the cg down on all chars but bowser, d3, dk, snake, rob,and wario. i need help cging them. also i cant use fthrow cg cause my nana always runs forward i can only do bthrow dthrow.

Practice the Fthrow or the buffer Fthrow....there really easy to do it on....

>:C

 

[l3lue2ain]

I think you're talking about F-throw chains, right? For practicing, I definitely recommend you start with Bowser: he's heavy so you don't have to react as fast (timing), and he has a very large frame which means you don't have to be as precise with the spacing. I'm sure that other people would also recommend Bowser.

Now, to attempt to answer your question, it's about HOW you're pressing forward on the control stick (obviously). I don't just tap forward or press lightly forward with one single intensity. I press forward gradually, so that the control stick is eventually as far to the right or left as it will go. When I say gradually and eventually, this can be deceptive since it all happens in less than a second. But what I'm trying to emphasize is that I don't just slam forward on the control stick. I vary the intensity so that at first I'm pressing lightly and then I gradually press harder and harder until the control stick won't go over any further. Once it won't go any further, I release it back to it's neutral position and then press the grab button. It's much more of a fluid motion than a jerky one. By mastering this motion, you can have Popo walk forward before Nana starts to throw, or you can have Nana throw and Popo walk forward at more or less the same time. If Popo is dashing forward then you're pressing over too hard too fast. This is just how I think about it of course, so if my description works for you, great. If it doesn't, sorry I wasn't helpful >_<

One more thing (that you might already know). When you press a button, Nana reacts a little slower than Popo does. I don't know exactly how many frames (can someone please confirm?) this delay is. But this means is that the timing for the regrab is different for Nana than it is for Popo. With Popo you want to try to grab at the last possible instant as the person is thrown. With Nana you have to press the grab button a little sooner than you would press it if you were trying to regrab with Popo. This could be another problem you're having when trying to regrab with Popo--you're pressing the button too soon thinking the timing is the same for Popo as it is when you regrab with Nana. Out of all the chain grabs, it's most important to be aware of this timing difference when doing F-throw chains in my opinion.

Whats throwing me off is that i keep hearing people say forward throw is the same for every charactor but it feels like it can't be. Like when i tried it donkey kong i can do about 3 forward throws before it like completely messes up. So werid Sometimes when i try to be fluid nana just walk forward and the person just does not get thrown. I'm just like wow. On a side note I'm doing well in general playing the ice climbers but the fact my grab is not quite up to par really is hurting me. Charactors that are very troublesome are.

-Pikachu
-Zelda
-Marth this guy is always spiking Nana
-Snake when i dysnic he charges forward smash nana runs right into it when i'm trying to recover.
-Kirby Wow Back air spam is so gay...

a random note. I seem to be able to kind of grab Lucario well.

 

[istudying]

Easiest CG to perform on Ness Lucas and Jigglypuff?

 

[ch33s3]

Easiest CG to perform on Ness Lucas and Jigglypuff?

Whichever one you are best at.

 

[Smoom77]

I'm trying to look for grab releases on Wario with a Wario main off a edge. Would d-tilt semi-spike him in a diagnal to the corner?

Edit: I don't understand what causes the differences in timing between characters in let's say, b-throw alts. The heavier the character, the later you grab after throw, or sooner?

What makes it more difficult to alt certain characters than others? I can infinite olimar's pretty far with b-throws, but I can't get one bthrow alt at all on Ganon or Wario. What's my problem? I mess with different timings and I can't get one ever.