General ICs Q&A Thread

[Bellioes]

I think its time for a subject change
How do you guys CG the middleweights? I use hobbling for the heavyweights and the Bthrow to Dthrow CG for the lightweights but Im having trouble with the middleweights. I can sortve do the Bthrow/Dthrow on them (I tried on Marth) but I dont want to learn a new timing for that CG so I dont get confused with the timing of like PIka or G&W. Is there any other way to CG them besides alt Fthrows.

EDIT: just read Bnzaas post so yeah dont flame me. I know theyre not the ICs only tool. Im just trying to improve my ICs.
And also the desynch im talking about is not the pivot desynch. You can only do the pivot desynch outve the dash animation. This desynch can be done anytime during a run. I said it just looks like the pivot desynch cause you dont slide when you do the forward smash. Try it with the Dsmash and youll see the slide Im talking about.

 

[Dev2000]

Six infractions equals a ban I'm pretty sure.

Anyway, with arguements like those, words need to be exchanged in a PM or somewhere that isn't a thread. The Ice Climber boards are generally flame-free and I would like to keep it that way .

I do understand why Frozen got so mad though (I think), and it doesn't really really have to do with him not chaingrabbing. It seems everyday, a new person comes to our boards and the very first thing they ask about is the timing of chaingrabs. Then there are people that think being able to chaingrab is the only way they can win. Also they try to learn every single variation possible, and demand vids of people doing chaingrabs.

Seeing those threads/questions asked a lot can be pretty irritating. You've been around for a bit now, so I think you see what I'm saying.

As for Desynches, there are many uses for them. They can be used for mindgames/confusing your opponent, fighting your opponent like it's 2 vs. 1, linking attacks into one another, forcing approaches, shutting down approaches, possibly getting grabs and other things. It may look flashy, but it's used in gameplay because it works well.

And the desynch you guys were describing, isn't that the pivot desynch? I thought it was known already. I find it eaiser to use a F-Smash with Nana dash attacking.

I prefer Z-back its easy and it works for me
but yes it is a pain to see thousands of threads showing up asking how to chaingrab
ive never done that xD cause i saw Q&A so i straightly saw ASK THERE thats better
anyway im gonna forget this whole situation and also want to keep IC boards flame free
ive got 196 posts now and like 180 are on the IC boards lol so i do know alot about what happens around here
i like it here cause there are ALMOST no argeuments and when i see boards like diddy or sonic theyre fighting all the time
we just chill and be kind to eachother i remember when i first came here i was very welcome thats what i like about these boards so i SURELY DONT want to get banned

if it is nescesarry i apologize to frozenpopo

lets just all forget about this and go on with what we are doing cause it is just so nice on these boards and we dont want to screw that up well we could screw it up for what i care but I dont wanna be the cause of it xD

 

[ignore the fire]

Desynching IS useful, but not as much as you'd think. Obviously, desynched blizzards ****, but your 2 chars>1 char argument doesn't make sense. You're STILL 2 chars when synched, you just attack at (almost) the same time. While desynched, your attacks do half of what they would do synched. Desynching for the sake of desynching isn't always smart. I guess it depends on the matchup (as does everything in brawl), but being synched also has it's uses. Basically, synched=mobility/power while desynched=speed/fluidity.

EDIT: You changed subjects on me >____>

 

[Bnzaaa]

I think its time for a subject change
How do you guys CG the middleweights? I use hobbling for the heavyweights and the Bthrow to Dthrow CG for the lightweights but Im having trouble with the middleweights. I can sortve do the Bthrow/Dthrow on them (I tried on Marth) but I dont want to learn a new timing for that CG so I dont get confused with the timing of like PIka or G&W. Is there any other way to CG them besides alt Fthrows.

More chaingrab questions .

Marth isn't Midweight. It's kind of weird how he isn't, but he is lightweight, and his timing is the same as Pikachu/Game and Watch.

Back-Throw to Down-Throw works on them too, but the timing is different because they are a bit heavier. For the Back-throw and the Down-Throw you have to wait a little longer. Forward-Throw to Down-Throw works well, and shouldn't mess with your lightweight timing on Back-Throw to Down-Throw.

You'll have to try it for yourself though. You have to figure out what you are comfortable with, as people chaingrab different ways.

 

[Dev2000]

To bellioes about that middleweight thing
i mostly do ice block lock to the edge and then grab spike (yes you have time to actually grab them theyre forced into standup animation so you have the time trust me :3) them

oh i also use alternate grabs when offline or with a good connection OH and the most fun thing is on like stages like Bridge of eldin ice block lock them till theyre dead the reactions of them are AMAZINGLY enjoyable you should try it

 

[Bellioes]

@Bnzaa If I do the Fthrow/Dthrow wont I get to the edge of the stage eventually?? And I didnt know marth was a lightweight. For me the timing of the Bthrow to Dthrow seems a little delayed. Guess I should just practice some more.

@Dev2000 I dont know how to ice lock. I tried once but I couldnt do it. So yeah, maybe Ill learn to do it outve hobbling ^_^

 

[FrozenHobo]

To bellioes about that middleweight thing
i mostly do ice block lock to the edge and then grab spike them oh i also use alternate grabs when offline or with a good connection OH and the most fun thing is on like stages like Bridge of eldin ice block lock them till theyre dead the reactions of them are AMAZINGLY enjoyable you should try it

IBL to the ledge can be nice, but REALLY good players can tech the fair/DI into/awak from you, etc. I do agree about the edge spike. i definitly enjoy doing it (the boom makes me happy) but i have noticed more and more people teching it. bthrow -> usmash is a great way to kill (assuming you haven't overused it already when you get the grab). but 90% of the time throwing the person into a charged upsmash after cging for a while is the best way to end a CG so as to make sure they don't come back.

 

[Dev2000]

@Bnzaa If I do the Fthrow/Dthrow wont I get to the edge of the stage eventually?? And I didnt know marth was a lightweight. For me the timing of the Bthrow to Dthrow seems a little delayed.

@Dev2000 I dont know how to ice lock. I tried once but I couldnt do it.

If you are able to do the Dthrow>Fair it shouldent be a problem when theyre at higher damage just do that and spam be like half a second after you hit Fair with nana then the ice blocks will be desynched and they will cause a Lock
does that help any?

 

[FrozenHobo]

I dont know how to ice lock. I tried once but I couldnt do it. So yeah, maybe Ill learn to do it outve hobbling ^_^

watch this (not my best stuff, but it has a lot of IBLing in it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9dFFn455lI

 

[Dev2000]

ive got one kill in my latest video showing what i mean
its the one with the white ice climbers on final destinations rightest side
with bowser
its like in the middle or something just click mah sig to watch

 

[Bellioes]

Wow thanks you guys
I actually got the IBL when I was practicing
Thanks Dev, your way of explaining the timing really helped. And your right, itworks really well outve the Dthrow to Fair CG.

 

[Dev2000]

Wow thanks you guys
I actually got the IBL when I was practicing
Thanks Dev, your way of explaining the timing really helped. And your right, itworks really well outve the Dthrow to Fair CG.

Thanks, its good to know that its appericiated ^_^
the thing with IBL is you can also use one Ice block or 2 then they are forced to stand up Regrab use Dthrow Fair again and ice block
it doesnt work ALL the time but it works really good when you know exactly when to grab it *****
but dont rely on that it really isnt that kind of a chain you can use all that much cause they have the time to escape and they CAN escape but its useful when your playing someone who doesnt know what is going to happen u should try it

Tiny little side note:
200th POST!
Woo!

 

[Veng]

How the heck do you do the back throw chaingrab?

I can do the F throw one fairly easily but the back throw is weird.... also on the down throw you nana SH>Fair then regrab when they get up right?

 

[momochuu]

How the heck do you do the back throw chaingrab?

Practice it on Kirby. Just BThrow, make the other Ice Climber turn around (this should happen when you throw), then regrab. It's the hardest one to learn, but one of the fastest.

also on the down throw you nana SH>Fair then regrab when they get up right?

Yeah, if they fall completely on the ground though, you Ice Block reset them.

 

[Veng]

thanks Karina!

so you are supposed to grab them out of the nana fair before they hit the ground?

 

[momochuu]

thanks Karina!

so you are supposed to grab them out of the nana fair before they hit the ground?

Yep. It depends on what percentage they're at though. Someone made a list of what percentages every character completely falls to the ground at. Should be on the 1st or 2nd page.

 

[Bellioes]

No at low percents they hit the ground standing up so you can grab them
At higher percents (I believe its 40% and higher) they hit the ground laying down
In that case, you ice block with Popo forcing them to stand up ( like in hobbling)

EDIT: You grab them while theyre in the air??? I thought it was when they hit the ground standing.
Whatever, I would go with what kawaii said since Im not an IC main

 

[momochuu]

EDIT: You grab them while theyre in the air??? I thought it was when they hit the ground standing.
Whatever, I would go with what kawaii said since Im not an IC main

Yeah, that, lol. Mah bad.

 

[The Yeti]

This CG is rather hard for me. don't you grab sooner with Nana than Popo? I haven't put much practice into it yet tho.

 

[Bellioes]

Hehe, No problem. In the end, all that matters is that we grab the again Who cares about the how.

 

[Veng]

I also cant seem to do it at higher percents ( like the F throw for example ) I can do it acrossed fd maybe once but then at like 60-70% I lose my timing I guess

 

[Bellioes]

I cannot do the alt fthrow CG at all. My record is like 5 grabs but I only did that once. I sortve gave up on the forward throw CG cause I cant seem to get the timing. I even stopped using the ICs for a while cause people were saying that if you cant do that CG, give up on the ICs cause its the CG that works on all characters
But now Im picking them up again since Ive learned to do other CG (special thanks to SwordGard for helping me out )

EDIT: I dont want to sound like CG is the only aspect of their gameplay. Its just that theyre a huge part of it and I wanted to get the CGs down before I started the more advanced stuff like desynching

 

[X-FACTOR]

Fellow IC's, I have a question that I hope can be answered. I'm a pretty confident IC player and I have CG down really well (at least in training, and against rookie players). The thing is, I play with some really good Brawlers, and it seems they can DI my chain grabs!? I can fight really well with out them, but its annoying when I do get the chance to grab, I can't seem to punish cause of DI. They tell me that they just DI accordingly to the grab I'm going to input. I've seen them do it. I was wonder if anyone else has had this problem, or can explain to me whats going on? Do I have to time it differently, or compensate for DI? (Try doing it in training with a friend) HA HA, or am I just going insane.

Any info would help, Thanks again guys and much respect.

 

[Bellioes]

I don think you can DI any of the ICs chaingrabs (besides the Dthrow to Fair)
If your not doing that CG, then your just messing up the timing
But I may be wrong cause if you can do it in training mode, then I dont get why its not working for you

 

[Barge]

Fellow IC's, I have a question that I hope can be answered. I'm a pretty confident IC player and I have CG down really well (at least in training, and against rookie players). The thing is, I play with some really good Brawlers, and it seems they can DI my chain grabs!? I can fight really well with out them, but its annoying when I do get the chance to grab, I can't seem to punish cause of DI. They tell me that they just DI accordingly to the grab I'm going to input. I've seen them do it. I was wonder if anyone else has had this problem, or can explain to me whats going on? Do I have to time it differently, or compensate for DI? (Try doing it in training with a friend) HA HA, or am I just going insane.

Any info would help, Thanks again guys and much respect.

You need to use alts.
Chain grabs like dthrow to fair are easy to DI and tech.

 

[X-FACTOR]

I don think you can DI any of the ICs chaingrabs (besides the Dthrow to Fair)
If your not doing that CG, then your just messing up the timing
But I may be wrong cause if you can do it in training mode, then I dont get why its not working for you

^_^ Just the regular CG passes in general, like F-Throw > F-Throw, etc... I know D-Throw to Fair can be tech-ed/DI. After the 30% mark I don't often use D-Throw to Fair cause of that reason. If you have the grab take the stock (most good players will tech/DI D-Throw to Fair) unless you have something else in mind to kill your opponent, HA HA!

 

[Dev2000]

^_^ Just the regular CG passes in general, like F-Throw > F-Throw, etc... I know D-Throw to Fair can be tech-ed/DI. After the 30% mark I don't often use D-Throw to Fair cause of that reason. If you have the grab take the stock (most good players will tech/DI D-Throw to Fair) unless you have something else in mind to kill your opponent, HA HA!

"
i almost only use the dthrow fair combo
just because of that evil IBL and that spike but ye i had a couple of tech rollers that made it harder
DI is also irritating but mostly if i hit them with that ice block theyre doomed lol
but im trying to cut back on grabs :\ i use them too much and im not that good without em

 

[Barge]

"
i almost only use the dthrow fair combo
just because of that evil IBL and that spike but ye i had a couple of tech rollers that made it harder
DI is also irritating but mostly if i hit them with that ice block theyre doomed lol
but im trying to cut back on grabs :\ i use them too much and im not that good without em

You need to learn alts, good players will make the dthrow to fair cg useless past 30-40%.
Ice climbers aren't only chain grabs, they have a lot of other AT's and strategies that make them beast. But if you're going to get a grab past the % where they can tech your fair, you should alt into a kill.

 

[Dev2000]

You need to learn alts, good players will make the dthrow to fair cg useless past 30-40%.
Ice climbers aren't only chain grabs, they have a lot of other AT's and strategies that make them beast. But if you're going to get a grab past the % where they can tech your fair, you should alt into a kill.

yes i'm learning alts i killed someone with them like a minute ago
anyway i will need to learn my desynch combo's aswell
and i know IC arent only grabs im not stupid

 

[Bellioes]

Im having some trouble with the Fthrow alt CG. When Nana is throwing to Popo, do I grab earlier or later then when Popo is throwing to Nana?

Also, desynch combos? Ive never heard of them. Any basic ones you guys know of cause I would really love to incorporate these into my game.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Im having some trouble with the Fthrow alt CG. When Nana is throwing to Popo, do I grab earlier or later then when Popo is throwing to Nana?

Also, desynch combos? Ive never heard of them. Any basic ones you guys know of cause I would really love to incorporate these into my game.

dear. ****ing. god.

someone else explain it to him. if i have to i'm just gonna lose it again.

 

[Bellioes]

What did I say. If its about asking for help about the CG, forget it. Im more interested in the desynch combos.

Sorry if Im not as up to date as you are on the IC metagame. Im not an IC main and Ive just started using them. And the only vids Ive seen are the ones where people are like '' This vids the **** man. He got 3 CGs in OMG 0_o''. People arent really promoting the ICs who dont CG cause theyre not ''flashy''. So yeah, if theyre arent really any desynch combos and its just things you got to use on the spot, then you couldve of just told me. It was just a simple question

 

[JustNoOne]

Can I bump Smaci's stickied thread? I need it need more attention than it does right now :3

Edit: Bunny or Hylain? Give me the right to without getting like some infraction for necroposting or stuff please =D

 

[momochuu]

Can I bump Smaci's stickied thread? I need it need more attention than it does right now :3

Edit: Bunny or Hylain? Give me the right to without getting like some infraction for necroposting or stuff please =D

If it's stickied, go ahead.

 

[Dev2000]

What did I say. If its about asking for help about the CG, forget it. Im more interested in the desynch combos.

Sorry if Im not as up to date as you are on the IC metagame. Im not an IC main and Ive just started using them. And the only vids Ive seen are the ones where people are like '' This vids the **** man. He got 3 CGs in OMG 0_o''. People arent really promoting the ICs who dont CG cause theyre not ''flashy''. So yeah, if theyre arent really any desynch combos and its just things you got to use on the spot, then you couldve of just told me. It was just a simple question

Allright im gonna try explaining it to you allright get into training mode uhm choose bowser or another fatty cause the timing is easier to learn if you start out with heavier weights
grab him (obvious)
Fthrow and when you see him almost releasing go grab with nana
Fthrow again and grab with popo A little later cause nana has 6 frames delay or something

after youve mastered bowser for a bit try doing it on slightly lighter characters to speed up your timing
and when youve done that go even lighter and lighter and lighter
im not done mastering them cause im too lazy to practice lol but if you practice you'll master them quite soon

i cant explain desynch combo's to you but i can explain How
Z+back is the one i use mostly
or you can do pivot or dashdance desynch
when i use that pivot i press b and then immediatly start putting in moves with nana when she does something use popo when he is done or still busy use nana its pretty hard to do and im still a starter at desynching
with Zback you will see nana grabbing and popo rolling backwards i use ice block and then start nana but thats just what i do
i mostly use at close range Side b too upsmash but that doesnt always work lol... hehe

I hope it helped you a bit further hehe.

you know what im gonna make a chaingrab tutorial video or something unless someone else has done it or will do it now aswell Good idea?

 

[t3h n00b]

I think there have been many videos designed to demonstate chaingrabbing but one more couldn't hurt, maybe you could film your controller during the chaingrabs so the timing would be easier to understand.

 

[Dev2000]

I think there have been many videos designed to demonstate chaingrabbing but one more couldn't hurt, maybe you could film your controller during the chaingrabs so the timing would be easier to understand.

ye that would be a good idea most of the CG tutorials are from melee lol
I could make a thread tho but i geuss that wouldent help either cause i suck at explaining
i could give it a try but i dont know if its useful...
i'll just wait till other people give their opinion on this

 

[C~Dog]

If you made a CG tutorial and editted it to show the buttons you input next to the ICs at the time you press them , that would be sweet. I'm having a big problem with getting the timings right.

 

[Dev2000]

If you made a CG tutorial and editted it to show the buttons you input next to the ICs at the time you press them , that would be sweet. I'm having a big problem with getting the timings right.

I'll try and do that soon but first
i have lots of homework lol so i need to finish that before i start filming

 

[Bellioes]

Allright im gonna try explaining it to you allright get into training mode uhm choose bowser or another fatty cause the timing is easier to learn if you start out with heavier weights
grab him (obvious)
Fthrow and when you see him almost releasing go grab with nana
Fthrow again and grab with popo A little later cause nana has 6 frames delay or something

after youve mastered bowser for a bit try doing it on slightly lighter characters to speed up your timing
and when youve done that go even lighter and lighter and lighter
im not done mastering them cause im too lazy to practice lol but if you practice you'll master them quite soon

i cant explain desynch combo's to you but i can explain How
Z+back is the one i use mostly
or you can do pivot or dashdance desynch
when i use that pivot i press b and then immediatly start putting in moves with nana when she does something use popo when he is done or still busy use nana its pretty hard to do and im still a starter at desynching
with Zback you will see nana grabbing and popo rolling backwards i use ice block and then start nana but thats just what i do
i mostly use at close range Side b too upsmash but that doesnt always work lol... hehe

I hope it helped you a bit further hehe.

Thanks but I know how to desynch and then control both both ICs at once. For example, I can do alt smashs, and aerials even (I can retreat with alternating Bairs And the look on you opponents face is priceless lol) What I wanted to know if there were any really effective combos that are hard to escape like your FowardB to Usmash. Seems like a really effective approach. Like Ive seen Lain do a desynched double SH blizzard to grab. Are there any universal ones or its just something you develope and experiment with.