choknater
Smash Obsessed
ya chival that kind of counter nair is not float cancelled
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Social General Ice Climber Chat
- Thread starter dj asakura
- Start date
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
It's a risky business though. You might not be spaced to shield grab it.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
no no i dont shield grab her nair haha, i usually roll away, or maybe do my own nair out of shield while drifting away
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I'd rather fight Ganon on FD than Yoshi's, Battlefield, or Fountain ...
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I feel like Ganon has good stage control on FoD and on small stages in general.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
man my adaptation skills have increased like 3x in the past month, especially since playing young link
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Have you figured out any new useful tricks for the Fox matchup? 
StealthyGunnar
Smash Champion
don't get shined. lolHave you figured out any new useful tricks for the Fox matchup?
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Yes. I learned that the hard way.
StealthyGunnar
Smash Champion
Seriously though, getting shined 1 time is like gettin shined when ur luigi. You just slide and slide.
Maybe try desynched wavedash > blizzard as an approach and then grab? or desynch ice block w/ popo, wavedash > blizzard w/ nana, wavedash > grab?
Whatever works I guess... I'm no expert lol.
Maybe try desynched wavedash > blizzard as an approach and then grab? or desynch ice block w/ popo, wavedash > blizzard w/ nana, wavedash > grab?
Whatever works I guess... I'm no expert lol.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Still, charged f-smash regrab is sooo satisfying.
Finch
Smash Lord
Fox is an awesome matchup. ICs have more options against him than most of their other matchups, and he can probably combo ICs better than any other characters. Fox vs ICs is always more fun, even when he just shines all the time because I find a lot of foxes who do that become very vulnerable in ways that normal foxes aren't.
StealthyGunnar
Smash Champion
I'm not saying to be desynched the whole time, just enough so you can get a grab in or something. Cuz as soon as he's grabbed, he's pretty much done.
AshuRawRun
Smash Apprentice
Not really, if the Fox knows the DI you don't get kill in 1 grabs.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
going to cgc in 3 days wish me luck
StealthyGunnar
Smash Champion
Some infinites are not banned at all tounreys.
AshuRawRun
Smash Apprentice
Oh forgot that in USA Wobbling was tolered...
Well then yes...
Good luck Chok!
Make a recorded match with ZAC in screen tag, I'll be pleased =)
Well then yes...
Good luck Chok!
Make a recorded match with ZAC in screen tag, I'll be pleased =)
StealthyGunnar
Smash Champion
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Bait him into f-smashing your shield, then wavedash out of shield -> grab or dsmash. If you get a grab at low percents, d-throw -> up-smash -> uairs. This way you get him in an awkward position.
Get in the habit of approaching with shield. Punish a poorly spaced aerial with wavedash -> f-smash/d-smash or wavedash -> jab -> grab. Random blizzards are always nice too.
Get in the habit of approaching with shield. Punish a poorly spaced aerial with wavedash -> f-smash/d-smash or wavedash -> jab -> grab. Random blizzards are always nice too.
StealthyGunnar
Smash Champion
bait and grab. Marth has no projectile and will rely probably on fair and fmsash most. So if you need to, spam desynched ice blocks until he ****s up. Then just captialize with a grab or dmsash. He's got almost no horizontal recovery so you should be ablt to edgeguard him pretty easily if you smash him at high %.
Try maybe retreating wavedash > blizzard > grab when they try to appraoch with fair.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
blizzard is the best tool
be weary though, he does have ways to time his approaches to get through it
be weary though, he does have ways to time his approaches to get through it
AshuRawRun
Smash Apprentice
lol I can't understand how you guys manage to success this infinite it's too hard =(
Finch
Smash Lord
You have to be really patient against marth. The worst thing about the matchup by far is that you have 0 safe approaches on the ground, so you can't fight him like you would fight any other character in the game. I've been playing against Dark Sonic a lot, and I find that when I get frustrated and stop thinking, I just run in, and he just stands in one place and dtilts and beats everything I can do. Against marth you have to play a lot of mindgames and use clever spacing tricks to get in. An imbalanced matchup means you have to play better than marth to win, so just be in the mindset of not making any mistakes. Psyche him out, because he definitely does not want to get grabbed or smashed or get sent off the stage, and when you can prove to him that you can do that, he will start to get scared and he will play worse.
Also if he just sits there and dtilts you can do a full jump fair. It sounds stupid and like it should never work, but it does sometimes just because of the way pressure works.
Also if he just sits there and dtilts you can do a full jump fair. It sounds stupid and like it should never work, but it does sometimes just because of the way pressure works.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
its easy to win lol just dont approach
stand behind nanas blizzard and marth has to platform camp
i do this in almost all matchups where chars dont have a projectile except fox and falcon
stand behind nanas blizzard and marth has to platform camp
i do this in almost all matchups where chars dont have a projectile except fox and falcon
Finch
Smash Lord
That's not really a solution :/ I'd rather teach people how to fight marth at any level rather than say use a move that only really bad marths don't know how to get around. Blizzard can work as a surprise but definitely don't rely on it. Fsmash outranges it so any good marth will just tipper nana :/
It's the same thing as saying just shield his fsmash and grab him. Yes, that is really good and works pretty well against noob marths, but when you're in a tournament set with a marth and you get to play three matches eventually they're going to figure out that they can just grab you and you probably won't know how to deal with it and then they'll win easily. Know all your options and how to mix them up and you will have solid fundamental play that will enable you to adapt really well.
It's the same thing as saying just shield his fsmash and grab him. Yes, that is really good and works pretty well against noob marths, but when you're in a tournament set with a marth and you get to play three matches eventually they're going to figure out that they can just grab you and you probably won't know how to deal with it and then they'll win easily. Know all your options and how to mix them up and you will have solid fundamental play that will enable you to adapt really well.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
I don't think this is true actually. If Marth stands at tipper range and f-smashes, his hurtbox extends forward and one of the lingering blizzard hitboxes should tap him out of it. He *can* wait until near the end and f-smash, but if he waits near your blizzard you can drag Nana forward a little to hit him.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
bad marths? the strategy shut down m2k lol. (well at least made him quit out cuz he got lazy. this guy lawl) marth really has no aggressive options against nana blizzard and this simple defensive option will cause him to be more campy, giving u openings to approach. its a spacing matchup where neither character can just rush in and be aggressive. like u said, marth has to stand back and dtilt. ics have to stand back and blizzard/block until they can find an opportunity to wd in.
How to play the ice climborez.
http://www.tinygif.net/pictures/11851968304c9bdf2683923.gif
Be careful with your approches.
http://www.tinygif.net/pictures/11851968304c9bdf2683923.gif
Be careful with your approches.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
LMAO too good
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
Smart marths will NOT fsmash a grounded IC. I dunno why everyone seems to think that. You're supposed to save the fsmash for when they're in the air, recovering or something.
In all truthfullness, IC should not grab a marth that is spacing and zoning properly. You shouldn't even attempt it.
IMO, dash attack, Ftilt, aerials, and (sometimes) Ice block/blizzard are the main moves that should be used in the match. The footsies game is a lot of feinting approaches, baiting and little spacing tricks. Really, really slow matchup. Dash-dance blizzard and Dash-away NanaFsmash desynch are the main baits and tricks that I use. This part is the most boring and definitely happens the most when the matchup is played correctly(ie. Campy) by the marth because even if IC lands the punish(grab, dash attack, smashes, etc), they don't have as many combo options on marth as they do on other characters. So the situation usually just resets to neutral and IC struggles to get inside of his wall of steel again. But its really just a matter or picking your openings and slowly backing him into a corner.
Bait the fair and immediately close the gap with a dash attack so you can get him in the air for Uairs to stack on damage. Uair -> uair racks damage and I believe you can Uair -> Bair/nair to knock him off the stage and make him throw his double jump cards. If the marth is coming down from being juggled, chase his DI and be on the lookout for attacks on the way down. A well-timed dair beats out everything IC has from below BUT it has a lot of cooldown so if you can bait it, you can definitely punish it with a smash for the kill or a grab(!!!!) for the damage.
From what I can tell, Fairing over marth's Dtilt should not work. If I recall correctly, Marth's dtilt has redonkulous amounts of IASA frames so if he catches on to you SHFairing over it, he can immediately dash away and pivot an Fsmash, Ftilt, Jab, or dash away and come back with an aerial to crush the slow wind-up of Fair. IC has no options(or at least that's how I feel) against a spaced Dtilt against a technically sound Marth. Just get out of there and reset the situation. However, if you can CALL him on the Dtilt before he does it, I think SH fair may work.
Recovering against Marth is more or less a hopeless cause honestly lol. However, keep trying, DI and pray that they mess up. Don't forget to mix up your fastfalls/aerial influence of Squall hammer to prevent it from being more mindless than it already is. Lol
I may be wrong(I most likely am) but I'm sure that there is a way to time the Fair out of D/Fthrow Fair so that it always spikes, regardless of DI. This could make our punishment game that much more potent on marth. And before you guys go saying that it's impossible, remember than Blizzobling was discovered not too long ago. There's always more to learn about this game.
I had a lot more to say, but it's almost 2 am, I worked a 12 hour shift today, I forgot what I was gonna say, AND I'm typing this all from my phone while laying in bed, so my fingers are killing me.
These are just MY views on the match-up. Note that I'm not nearly as good at this game as most of you guys but I feel like this has some success against the people I've played against. I guess I gotta play against Dr. PP's marth though to see if it works at the highest level though. Feel free to correct me, wobbles and company on any of my blatantly wrong points.
Also, while I feel like the Peach matchup has the highest learning curve, I feel like Marth and Fox are ICs two worst matchups. I played against Dop(really good peach from florida that moved to NC) last weekend and I did much better than I thought I would. This opinion may change though.
PS: typing this while listening to Tiff Lacey's 'Burning from the Inside' was amazing. I love that woman.
In all truthfullness, IC should not grab a marth that is spacing and zoning properly. You shouldn't even attempt it.
IMO, dash attack, Ftilt, aerials, and (sometimes) Ice block/blizzard are the main moves that should be used in the match. The footsies game is a lot of feinting approaches, baiting and little spacing tricks. Really, really slow matchup. Dash-dance blizzard and Dash-away NanaFsmash desynch are the main baits and tricks that I use. This part is the most boring and definitely happens the most when the matchup is played correctly(ie. Campy) by the marth because even if IC lands the punish(grab, dash attack, smashes, etc), they don't have as many combo options on marth as they do on other characters. So the situation usually just resets to neutral and IC struggles to get inside of his wall of steel again. But its really just a matter or picking your openings and slowly backing him into a corner.
Bait the fair and immediately close the gap with a dash attack so you can get him in the air for Uairs to stack on damage. Uair -> uair racks damage and I believe you can Uair -> Bair/nair to knock him off the stage and make him throw his double jump cards. If the marth is coming down from being juggled, chase his DI and be on the lookout for attacks on the way down. A well-timed dair beats out everything IC has from below BUT it has a lot of cooldown so if you can bait it, you can definitely punish it with a smash for the kill or a grab(!!!!) for the damage.
From what I can tell, Fairing over marth's Dtilt should not work. If I recall correctly, Marth's dtilt has redonkulous amounts of IASA frames so if he catches on to you SHFairing over it, he can immediately dash away and pivot an Fsmash, Ftilt, Jab, or dash away and come back with an aerial to crush the slow wind-up of Fair. IC has no options(or at least that's how I feel) against a spaced Dtilt against a technically sound Marth. Just get out of there and reset the situation. However, if you can CALL him on the Dtilt before he does it, I think SH fair may work.
Recovering against Marth is more or less a hopeless cause honestly lol. However, keep trying, DI and pray that they mess up. Don't forget to mix up your fastfalls/aerial influence of Squall hammer to prevent it from being more mindless than it already is. Lol
I may be wrong(I most likely am) but I'm sure that there is a way to time the Fair out of D/Fthrow Fair so that it always spikes, regardless of DI. This could make our punishment game that much more potent on marth. And before you guys go saying that it's impossible, remember than Blizzobling was discovered not too long ago. There's always more to learn about this game.
I had a lot more to say, but it's almost 2 am, I worked a 12 hour shift today, I forgot what I was gonna say, AND I'm typing this all from my phone while laying in bed, so my fingers are killing me.
These are just MY views on the match-up. Note that I'm not nearly as good at this game as most of you guys but I feel like this has some success against the people I've played against. I guess I gotta play against Dr. PP's marth though to see if it works at the highest level though. Feel free to correct me, wobbles and company on any of my blatantly wrong points.
Also, while I feel like the Peach matchup has the highest learning curve, I feel like Marth and Fox are ICs two worst matchups. I played against Dop(really good peach from florida that moved to NC) last weekend and I did much better than I thought I would. This opinion may change though.
PS: typing this while listening to Tiff Lacey's 'Burning from the Inside' was amazing. I love that woman.