Social General Ice Climber Chat

[cemo]

at that percentage i wouldn't go for it. you would have like up throw upsmash, up throw dash attack, dthrow regrab, dthrow tech chase, bthrow tech chase. tech chasing in general is super important to work on, and you can get long ridiculous punishes if you can do it well. if nana is close enough you could aim to have her follow up on the grab release, too.

i think i'll be going to BH4, too bad they ban wobbling but I hear it's a great tournament series and I'm excited to go.

 

[Cervidae]

Since you mentioned it, when is back throw really a viable option? I find myself opting mostly for down throws or forward throws, and the occasional up throw on fast fallers.

 

[Loket]

Ive started wanting to learn the peach MU as ice climbers rather than counterpicking to fox.
What are your "go to moves" and main strategy in neutral vs peach?
Ive always thought projectile camping was the way to go until recent performances ive seen from both fly and wobbles.
It looks like IC's can outspace and wall peach out if youre on point.

 

[Soupeschleg]

Shoutout to Tomber on landing a sponsorship, even if he isn't gonna come around here much anymore.

 

[Tomber]

Ha, thanks man! I'm kind of feeling more motivated to play more because of that, so you might see me at more tournaments and stuff.

Also, I writing a "Wobbling master class" atm about what you should in order to really implement wobbling into your game. It should be done, like, someday.

i think i'll be going to BH4, too bad they ban wobbling but I hear it's a great tournament series and I'm excited to go.

Stuff like this kind of make me feel like going into the debate again. But then again, it's probably not worth it. The people behind BH are pretty silly when it comes to stuff like this.

Ive started wanting to learn the peach MU as ice climbers rather than counterpicking to fox.
What are your "go to moves" and main strategy in neutral vs peach?
Ive always thought projectile camping was the way to go until recent performances ive seen from both fly and wobbles.
It looks like IC's can outspace and wall peach out if youre on point.

I made a post about some of this a while back. I'll re-post here.

Spoiler

Also, watch Fly's newest set against Armada at Evo2014. He plays the MU really well in this set

 

[DerfMidWest]

Stuff like this kind of make me feel like going into the debate again. But then again, it's probably not worth it. The people behind BH are pretty silly when it comes to stuff like this.

It's juggleguy, he bans wobbling at all his tournaments, which is really sad because he's very stuck in an old mindset, but in my experience he is too adamant on his position to see any different, I've explained and argued with him for a long time now, as has just about every other midwest IC.

 

[Soupeschleg]

No wobbling at Carrollfest :/

 

[DerfMidWest]

No wobbling at Carrollfest :/

that's because I'm in the region and there's a lot of personal beef, apologies.

 

[Vanitas]

What are some of the advantages and disadvantages of Ice Climbers on Battlefield? I rarely see Fly Amanita or other top Ice Climbers counterpick there and lately I've been thinking that it is a bad Ice Climbers stage as people can camp the top platform pretty well (adding to the fact that our Uairs cannot reach the top platform very well). Any thoughts?

Also, is the downthrow dair chaingrab on spacies escapable at any percent? I remember I once heard it might be inescapable at very early percents but I could be wrong

 

[Ocean]

there isn't much to battlefield that necessarily hurts or benefits ice climbers in comparison to the other stages, it's more of whether or not it helps the other character. recovering on battlefield is a bit of a pain in the ass if you're coming from below, because you / nana can't ride the wall like you can on any other stage. but on the other hand, it takes away recovery options from some characters (mostly fox / falco). aside from the top platform the platforms are okay, the side ones are helpful for squall recovery mixups, and platform camping isn't as easy there as it is on dreamland / yoshi's (in my opinion).

i don't believe it's ever inescapable, since dair has fixed knockback.

 

[DerfMidWest]

ICs don't have a bad stage.
different stages just serve different purposes. the only disadvantage is the top platform (mostly only a problem with spacies)
I also dislike it against sheik, because needle camping is very effective on it.
but it's mostly personal preference.

the ledges really shouldn't interfere with your recovery all that much... they can, but it shouldn't happen very often..

also the dthrow dair cg can always be escaped.

 

[Psycho_Bayleef]

What's a good follow up to a low percentage grab where Popo utilizes his full dash dance leaving Nana too far away to hand-off/down throw regrab? Should I just pummel once and buffer a down throw and follow up off of that? If it matters (I'm sure it does) the target is Fox.

Fox? Just chaingrab/techchase
You can pummel once for every 20% before needing to throw/wobble. I.e. At 60% you can safely pummel 3 times before needing to throw

 

[Psycho_Bayleef]

Personally i ****ing hate BF, I always ban it when possible.
And about tournies such as BH that ban wobbling. They're basically a necessary evil. As IC players, it seems especially silly to us.
But there are some positives to having big tournies ban wobbling.
1) It pulls people away from the wobbling hate train when an IC player, whom usually wobbles, does well without wobbling. I.E. Nintendude. People talk mad **** on Nintendude because of his frequent use of wobbling and numerous wobble setups. But BH3 rolls around and people shut up.
2) It's cool to see IC players pull out the creative stuff in place of wobbling.

 

[Cervidae]

When I play against Peach, I tend to face away from her at all times. This allows me to wavedash into her while covering the options of having a quicker down smash if I catch her on the ground (turnip pull, ect.) or especially for wavedash back airs if she's floating. This strategy seems to be working on my friend, but I have yet to try it out on any other Peaches; does this seem like a good idea, or is it a bad approach to the match up?

 

[Ocean]

1) It pulls people away from the wobbling hate train when an IC player, whom usually wobbles, does well without wobbling. I.E. Nintendude. People talk mad **** on Nintendude because of his frequent use of wobbling and numerous wobble setups. But BH3 rolls around and people shut up.

this is both good and bad. it's good for the reasons you said, it shows that our top ICs are fundamentally good players. but it is also bad because then after people have the mindset "well, if you can do well without wobbling, then why should wobbling be legal?", and their anti-wobbling mindset only gets more set in stone.

derf, it's not that I personally get stuck under battlefield often, I just don't like that it limits below-the-ledge recovery options, albeit very very slightly.

 

[DerfMidWest]

When I play against Peach, I tend to face away from her at all times. This allows me to wavedash into her while covering the options of having a quicker down smash if I catch her on the ground (turnip pull, ect.) or especially for wavedash back airs if she's floating. This strategy seems to be working on my friend, but I have yet to try it out on any other Peaches; does this seem like a good idea, or is it a bad approach to the match up?

yeah that's fine.
but facing towards her is good sometimes too, you want to be able to shoot ice and blizzards and whatnot.
I, personally, am a big fan of playing on platforms against peach and using a lot of nair, bair, and fair to just wall her out.

 

[cemo]

You can pummel once for every 20% before needing to throw/wobble. I.e. At 60% you can safely pummel 3 times before needing to throw

That is not a good rule of thumb. People will always breaks out of your grab if you follow this. I have had people break out at 100% after like 1 pummel, it all depends on how good of a masher they are. (They used to play Brood War, so)

 

[Psycho_Bayleef]

That is not a good rule of thumb. People will always breaks out of your grab if you follow this. I have had people break out at 100% after like 1 pummel, it all depends on how good of a masher they are. (They used to play Brood War, so)

It's the rule of thumb M2K uses.
If the masher is PPMD at Evo13 vs. Wobbles <insert the gif here> then it probably won't work.
It's also why synched grabs under 20% can be broken before wobble starts. Not desynched tho, as Tomber has shown us it can be a 0% grab into death

 

[Nintendude]

People seem to forget that before March of this year I barely used infinites, because like Fly, I was inconsistent at it. I didn't even attempt it at all at Shuffle in February because I had no confidence in my ability to do it. BH3 happened during a period of time when I already didn't really use wobbling.

 

[cemo]

people just like to get mad about wobbling. this will happen forever. i would much rather people go about it like you and learn the game first before adding it to their kit.

It's the rule of thumb M2K uses.
If the masher is PPMD at Evo13 vs. Wobbles <insert the gif here> then it probably won't work.
It's also why synched grabs under 20% can be broken before wobble starts. Not desynched tho, as Tomber has shown us it can be a 0% grab into death

m2k doesn't play ICs, so maybe he can get away with that but I don't think it's relevant to us. lots of people are conditioned to mash like crazy as soon as they're grabbed or think that they'll be grabbed when playing vs ICs.

 

[DerfMidWest]

People seem to forget that before March of this year I barely used infinites, because like Fly, I was inconsistent at it. I didn't even attempt it at all at Shuffle in February because I had no confidence in my ability to do it. BH3 happened during a period of time when I already didn't really use wobbling.

hater's gun hate.
but who cares, we already play an unpopular character that gets a lot of crowd hate, if you just have a stable mental state and self-esteem then you can do whatever. If people can't respect you for that, then you don't need their ****ty opinions.
It's a mentality I'm trying to incorporate into my daily life, but it also applies to smash.

 

[Phan7om]

Wobbles tho!

 

[Ocean]

incase you guys haven't seen it, here's the link to the grand finals of wobbles vs m2k, where he reset the bracket:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFAxtPeZXsc

 

[Cervidae]

I was messing around with Nana's throw options on platforms to see if she would only react with a forward throw or back throw off of a grab. The only exception I found to this was on Hyrule Temple on the large platform on the top part of center stage. When grabbed in the middle of the platform, Nana performed an up throw. I think this is the longest platform in the game, but are there any other stages where this could happen?

 

[Vanitas]

So is Wobbles back? Great to see his amazing performances.

Have many of you guys implemented shield dropping to your game? I could see some uses if like Falcon is uair'ing you from below or Marth utilt'ing you from below (but there are alternatives haha). I'm wondering if it is absolutely necessary in 20xx

 

[Cervidae]

I think he's going to slow down once he goes back to school after summer, but I don't think anyone other than Wobbles really knows for sure what his intentions are after that.

Shield dropping is becoming more and more crucial as the meta evolves. I personally haven't implemented it yet, but I really need to get on that ASAP. It's starting to become really important especially for Climbers who already have a tough time coming off of platforms.

 

[KingDozie]

Ics shield drop is not that good but you can try to implement it tho to other charcs

 

[Cervidae]

Sometimes when I down-throw-->up smash Peach she'll somehow manage to be barely just out of range of Nana's up smash. I know that she isn't DI-ing it because it was when I was practicing with a second controller with nobody playing her. Is my timing just off?

 

[Psycho_Bayleef]

Sometimes when I down-throw-->up smash Peach she'll somehow manage to be barely just out of range of Nana's up smash. I know that she isn't DI-ing it because it was when I was practicing with a second controller with nobody playing her. Is my timing just off?

Yes. Also as to your previous question about nana's throwing while on platforms. Nana will always throw to the side closest to her, and IIRC if she's in the middle she back throws. There's some pretty sick followups where on say, FoD you can put her on a platform and dthrow as popo for a guarenteed regrab. Then follow the opponent after nana throws. It's pretty disgusting

 

[DerfMidWest]

I think he's going to slow down once he goes back to school after summer, but I don't think anyone other than Wobbles really knows for sure what his intentions are after that.

Shield dropping is becoming more and more crucial as the meta evolves. I personally haven't implemented it yet, but I really need to get on that ASAP. It's starting to become really important especially for Climbers who already have a tough time coming off of platforms.

I think wobbles finished school already, but I could be wrong.

as for shield dropping, I've been trying to use it more lately, it's really odd with ICs, because nana kind of gets to decide whether or not she shield drops with you. she also has separate shieldstun, so a lot of times you'll drop out of stun and she'll just say "peace" and do something totally different.
a lot of times, even when not in stun, she'll just roll rather than drop through.

also when you shield drop, sometimes you'll get in a very awkward desync where nana is just like a little behind you (but more noticeably than normal).

Anyway, if you're chill risking some sopo play for a hot second (or if you're just sopo in general), it can be really good.
shield drop uairs, bairs, nairs, and even dairs are all good, depending on the situation.

the ICs can also use shai drop bairs very very well.

keep in mind though, a lot of times it's easier to jump away than to try and come down.
like if someone like marth is pressuring you from bellow with uairs and utilts, it's usually easier to go to the top platform and look for another way down than coming right on top of him.

 

[Cervidae]

Yes. Also as to your previous question about nana's throwing while on platforms. Nana will always throw to the side closest to her, and IIRC if she's in the middle she back throws. There's some pretty sick followups where on say, FoD you can put her on a platform and dthrow as popo for a guarenteed regrab. Then follow the opponent after nana throws. It's pretty disgusting

Oh, I actually found out what was happening with the down-throw --> up smash; if you down-throw whilst to close to the ledge, your opponent will pop up just far enough away from Nana's up smash, so if you have a handoff going on at the ledge you shouldn't up-smash to finish off your opponent. I didn't realize that stage positioning (or lack thereof it) had an effect on how opponents move out of a down throw.

Yeah, FoD has small enough platforms where Nana is forced to either back throw of forward throw, but what I was testing was to see if there were any platforms large enough where Nana had the option to use an up throw or a down throw. The only two platforms I found that worked were on Hyrule Temple and Onett (the clothesline with the flags on it), but I also have a suspicion that Nana could use all four of her throws on Yoshi's Island 64 considering how ridiculously huge that stage is. The main reason I tested this was to see if Nana could only forward throw or back throw on platforms regardless of size. I had hypothesized that she could utilize all of her throws since it probably is just a distance factor from the edge, but for some reason I had a tiny suspicion that platforms had some sort of weird property to them that sets the apart from the normal stage (other than being able to fall through them) that messed with Nana's logic and limited her to only two throws, but I guess not!

 

[net1234]

so that lvl 9 nana thing isn't true right?

 

[DerfMidWest]

I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with the platforms themselves, just the position of the edges.

 

[Tomber]

Yo. I got 3rd in singles (outplaced by Armada and Rocky) and 2nd in teams this weekend (outplaced by Armada + Lolex; teamed with Rocky). I played really well and feel like I have an idea about what I need to work on so I'm glad even though I lost 2-3 to Rocky twice in bracket. Most of my bracket matches got recorded so you can expect them on youtube sometime this week (I hope). Pulled off some cool 20xx ICs stuff in my matches + nearly got a JV5 in LF at against Rocky (12% off iirc) so it should be worth a watch.

 

[Smasher89]

About the shieldropdiscussion. Any idea if it can be used to punish something like peach aerials if done perfecly? If so maybe platforms are key to beating peach.

 

[ParadoxZ]

Can someone help me with finishing my wobble? I have no problem starting and keeping the wobble going, but whenever i go to input a smash on nana, i always get the timing where popo throws instead. Any help is greatly appreciated. Also help with nanapulting would be great too.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Hit down or forward on the C-stick right when Popo's headbutt connects.

 

[Loket]

What are your favorite uses for Dair?
I recently realised how fast that move is (Hitbox on frame 3).
So perfect shffl dair is like superfast but I dont know if or when it could be handy.
Would it be a possible to use it as a OoS option to break up pressure?

 

[Psycho_Bayleef]

What are your favorite uses for Dair?
I recently realised how fast that move is (Hitbox on frame 3).
So perfect shffl dair is like superfast but I dont know if or when it could be handy.
Would it be a possible to use it as a OoS option to break up pressure?

OoS, no. You could, but they would have to be physically on your shield for it to connect. The hitbox is fast but it isn't wide. Nair OoS removed some pressure.
I mainly use dair's for dthrow regrab chains. It's also handy for ledgeguarding a fox on yoshi's. Since it has minimal knockback, i occasionally use it to punish a whiff and immediately grab when i land.

 

[KingDozie]

Can someone give me a list for ics basic combos?