Gears of War 3

[Pluvia]

So I'm oddly excited for the beta, even though it looks dreadful and the Gears 2 online was absolutely diabolical.

But am I excited for Gears 3 on a whole? Hell yes. 4 player co-op campaign sounds fantastic.

 

[WindMajor]

Yeah the only thing I don't like is the timing of the beta. It's during the final stretch of this trimester of college, which means that I'm either gonna get REALLY distracted or I'm not gonna play this game as much as I want to.

 

[Pluvia]

By the looks of it the Gnasher is incredibly over powered in the beta. The sawn-off looks terrible, and the retro lancer looks like it has terrible accuracy.

I don't know why the don't just make the shotguns close range weapons. The Gnasher doesn't have to be so long range, it's annoying.

 

[Wretched]

The thing about gears is that the physics of the weapons make more sense than anything.
Bullets don't just stop in midair. In MW2/BO shotguns do absolutely no damage at any range, which is ridiculous. I don't care if my entire buck shot doesn't go into you, you're at least going to get ****ed up by some of my bullets.
That being said, the Gnasher has realistic range and damage considering the amounts of armor that the COGS wear. Even so, there has to be a game on the market with an overpowered shotgun, and gears just so happens to enable that.

 

[Pluvia]

They should make the bullets much weaker/make the spread huge to fix it. Notice how if you get shot by a shotgun over long distance in gears 1 it does basically nothing, whereas in gears 2 you can get downed by it.

Gears isn't about realism. The first one was the most realistic but it has just turned into a cartoon now.

 

[Wretched]

I think everyone exaggerates the difference between the shotguns in gears.
The reason gears 1 shotgun is SEEMINGLY less rangeful (lol rangeful) is because of the sluggish ADS movement in combination with a slightly wider spread, iirc.
They tightened the spread in gears 2 and sped up the ADS movement speed, which made hard aiming viable which means more players will be more accurate which means faster downs.
If you play a non-host-advantage game (have you tried local?) you will be even more surprised.
Try playing without people who hardaim, and you will simply experience a smoother gears of war.
Also, in the defense of gears 2, wallbouncing is so much better.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I've always felt like Gears 2 > Gears 1 simply because of the wall-bouncing.

But from what I've heard the game feels a lot more like GoW2 than 1 so I'm definitely happy about that.

 

[Pluvia]

I'm not sure what ADS means, but if you're talking about character movement then Gears 1 has the faster movement. And it's not seeminly less rangeful, it has got far less range.

Before TU6 the Gears 2 shotgun was unpredictable but atleast worked like a shotgun. Then they went to their forums, mentioned that the shotgun was the most used weapon, and for some insane reason decided to make it stronger. And the Lancer, why on earth did they make it stronger than the Hammerburst? It just completely undermines the whole point in the Hammer.

Edit: Also Gears 1 wall bouncing was far superior. Your bullets in Gears 1 dragged with you, making it a viable offensive manouver. While that was a glitch, it made wall bouncing a great offensive and evasive tactic, whereas in Gears 2 they made it a crappy, soley evasive, manouver that is made pointless by people downing you with their hard aimed shotguns from half the map away.

 

[F8AL]

I'm not sure what ADS means, but if you're talking about character movement then Gears 1 has the faster movement. And it's not seeminly less rangeful, it has got far less range.

Before TU6 the Gears 2 shotgun was unpredictable but atleast worked like a shotgun. Then they went to their forums, mentioned that the shotgun was the most used weapon, and for some insane reason decided to make it stronger. And the Lancer, why on earth did they make it stronger than the Hammerburst? It just completely undermines the whole point in the Hammer.

Edit: Also Gears 1 wall bouncing was far superior. Your bullets in Gears 1 dragged with you, making it a viable offensive manouver. While that was a glitch, it made wall bouncing a great offensive and evasive tactic, whereas in Gears 2 they made it a crappy, soley evasive, manouver that is made pointless by people downing you with their hard aimed shotguns from half the map away.

ADS = Aim down sights.

 

[Wretched]

I'm not sure what ADS means, but if you're talking about character movement then Gears 1 has the faster movement. And it's not seeminly less rangeful, it has got far less range.
Try hardaiming in both games at the same part of the same characters. They take about the same amount of damage.

Before TU6 the Gears 2 shotgun was unpredictable but atleast worked like a shotgun. Then they went to their forums, mentioned that the shotgun was the most used weapon, and for some insane reason decided to make it stronger. And the Lancer, why on earth did they make it stronger than the Hammerburst? It just completely undermines the whole point in the Hammer.
The shotgun wasn't unpredictable; the online experience made it seem ridiculous because the game sacrifices realism with greater hit detection. They didn't make it stronger, either. They just made it more noob friendly because of how viable hardaiming became
I have to agree with the hammerburst issue though.

Edit: Also Gears 1 wall bouncing was far superior. Your bullets in Gears 1 dragged with you, making it a viable offensive manouver. While that was a glitch, it made wall bouncing a great offensive and evasive tactic, whereas in Gears 2 they made it a crappy, soley evasive, manouver that is made pointless by people downing you with their hard aimed shotguns from half the map away.
Gears 1 wallbouncing wasn't as smooth and it limits players to areas with walls that are closer together. The dragging bullets made it so you could shoot a shot and then wallbounce and somehow gib people with the bullet trail, which was ridiculous. In gears 2, wallbouncing is used to GET CLOSER TO PEOPLE. Good, sportsmanlike players will use this mechanic to make sure that all of their kills are gibs. Plus, with the new unsnap feature, wallbouncing became viable in every part of the level.
Also, when having shotgun battles, you will notice that nobody gets downed from far away shots because hardaiming is frowned upon.
The only reason people don't complain about it in the first gears is because the movement speed of the shotgun while ADS (Aiming down the sight) is ridiculously slow.

Responses in booold.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I agree wholeheartedly with Wretched.

 

[Pluvia]

I'd love to play a game where the shotgun is "not unpredictable" and hard aiming is frowned upon. It sounds like you only play Gears with your friends and not randoms.

 

[WindMajor]

Okay so I never understood why hard aiming was so bad or why it should be frowned upon.

Can anyone kindly tell me?

 

[The Real Gamer]

I'd love to play a game where the shotgun is "not unpredictable" and hard aiming is frowned upon. It sounds like you only play Gears with your friends and not randoms.

I've played Gears 2 for years with randoms and I've been able to maintain a 1.6 K/D ratio with the majority of my kills coming from the shotgun.

If you're good enough at wallbouncing, your opponent will lose a shotgun battle 80% of the time if they try to hard aim cause all that does is slow them down.

 

[Wretched]

I'd love to play a game where the shotgun is "not unpredictable" and hard aiming is frowned upon. It sounds like you only play Gears with your friends and not randoms.

I do play with friends, and when I do, I win, even if the other team wants to contradict what the community deems correct.
My whole point is that it seems to be the community that you don't like, not the game in general.

Okay so I never understood why hard aiming was so bad or why it should be frowned upon.

Can anyone kindly tell me?

Hard aiming is frowned upon, and not to sound like an elitist, but because it slows the game down and supposedly takes less skill. Gears players want the community to develop. Waiting behind corners to gib someone while hardaiming is barbaric and would digress the community to a place where nobody wants to be, which it has.
Therefore, the more intelligent and skillful players strive to mature the game by not hardaiming.
Not to say that hardaiming means you're unintelligent, but most of the time, it isn't XxKillStealerElitexX who promotes healthy game development.
Most of the time, those kinds of people get ***** by me and then call me a ***got.

Also, trg speaks the truth. If you're wallbouncing well enough (which most players can't), hardaiming players won't hinder you too much.
I know that I myself am not good enough at wallbouncing to counter hardaiming, and strafing is useless when people hardaim.

 

[WindMajor]

But what about it is so barbaric? Is it really because it just slows down the game or because it's "too easy", or am I just missing the bigger picture?

I used to play both games for years, and I never understood why people hated it so much, to the point that they bashed anyone who hard aims.

 

[Wretched]

Its pretty much that it's too easy.
I dunno if you guys played the best tactical shooter game ever, rainbow 6 black for the xbox, but using the gun that people dubbed "The noob cannon" was frowned upon, and eventually any player not willing to use it was forced to play private team matches.
This is the same situation.

 

[WindMajor]

Okay then.

I probably won't ever understand how aiming a shotgun can be something so bad that it's frowned upon, but I do appreciate the insight.

I'll just keep on hard aiming until the lag lets up.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I only hard aim whenever my enemy's at a pretty long distance.

But if you're at close range, I'll wall bounce the **** outta ya and not have to aim once.

 

[Pluvia]

Wall bouncing is made moot by the B button. Or the incredibly simple tactic of turning with whoever is wallbouncing and pop shotting them.

Now I'm not sure if you can compare stats with someone not in your friends list but try Oh My Days Man, he has 39,000 kills and a 3.18 K/D ratio, and over a 2.0 K/D ratio in every gametype, and even he stopped playing after TU6 made the game unplayable. It overpowered shotguns and lancers to the point where wall bouncing has become completely useless. I honestly think you must be talking about a different game if you're saying wallbouncing is better in this game than gears 1.

The reason why I'm so annoyed by this is because, by the looks of the beta clips I've seen, the shotgun and lancer is going to be even stronger. Just look how broken the Gnasher looks compared to the Double-Barrel.

 

[Wretched]

Double barreled will be corner camped.
Also, TU6 only enables the game to be unplayable because of the community.
Do you think it was much better when the melee gave the receiving player so much lag that you could hardaim a perfect shot in the lag time? That seems like more of an issue.

 

[ThreeX]

They didn't make it stronger, either. They just made it more noob friendly because of how viable hardaiming became
I have to agree with the hammerburst issue though.

They definitely did make it stronger. Like you said, the shotgun got better when they changed the hit-detection, but then they made the "tactical" weekend, and kept those changes. The tactical weekend made all starting weapons stronger, with less ammo.

 

[Wretched]

Yeah, you might be right that they made it more powerful, but its not like they didn't make the lancer stronger along with it.
Plus, the torque bow easily outclasses both. The boomshot is overpowered too, so giving the few weapons that the game has a boost isn't too bad.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I honestly think you must be talking about a different game if you're saying wallbouncing is better in this game than gears 1.

No Gears 2 has better wallbouncing by far you were too restricted in Gears 1. But the weapons are a whole different story yeah they restrict the effectiveness a bit but not enough to hinder wallbouncing's superiority. It's just a fact the majority of shotgun battles will be won by the superior player that tends to be the one that can maneuver themselves around their opponent faster while maintaining good aim.

And almost every XBL friend I have with a 2.0+ K/D wallbounce like crazy. You're making it seem like wallbouncing is completely useless, and I think you're the one that's talking about a different game.

In fact just watch this video ESPECIALLY the moment at 1:55- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE7pcZBHX3A

Superior GoW2 players are the onces that wallbounce the best. Fact

 

[ThreeX]

Yeah, you might be right that they made it more powerful, but its not like they didn't make the lancer stronger along with it.
Plus, the torque bow easily outclasses both. The boomshot is overpowered too, so giving the few weapons that the game has a boost isn't too bad.

Those are power weapons, they're meant to be amazing D: Shotgun is way too strong right now.

For example, going top mid on ruins, and getting downed by someone who is hard aiming against their rising wall... Shotgun should NOT down you from that far in 2 shots.

Gow2 movement is slower, wallbounce is slower, shotgun is incredibly strong and hard aiming is heavily rewarded... it's really dumb. Gow1 has it's problems, but that shotgun is so much better then gow2's piece of ****.

No Gears 2 has better wallbouncing by far you were too restricted in Gears 1. But the weapons are a whole different story yeah they restrict the effectiveness a bit but not enough to hinder wallbouncing's superiority. It's just a fact the majority of shotgun battles will be won by the superior player that tends to be the one that can maneuver themselves around their opponent faster while maintaining good aim.

And almost every XBL friend I have with a 2.0+ K/D wallbounce like crazy. You're making it seem like wallbouncing is completely useless, and I think you're the one that's talking about a different game.

In fact just watch this video ESPECIALLY the moment at 1:55- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE7pcZBHX3A

Superior GoW2 players are the onces that wallbounce the best. Fact

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TnGxaX41UI watch that if you wanna watch an amazing montage :3 They made 3 vids, and also placed well at events. I think they got 2nd last year at.. I wanna say Dallas? I'm not sure :\

Also, IMO wall bouncing got really over rated with gow2... People tend to want to press A after every shot, and that's pretty bad. People go to security's balcony and just start wall bouncing the same wall, thinking it's doing something for them. To be honest, that's when a melee is expected >:3

 

[Wretched]

Those are power weapons, they're meant to be amazing D: Shotgun is way too strong right now.
They're meant to be distributed so they wouldn't be overpowered, but if everyone had a torque bow, nobody would complain about the shotgun.

For example, going top mid on ruins, and getting downed by someone who is hard aiming against their rising wall... Shotgun should NOT down you from that far in 2 shots.
I have no idea why you would use that to measure the range of the shotgun, but the only time I could see that happening is with hardaimed active reloads, which would have the same effect in the first gears of war.

Gow2 movement is slower, wallbounce is slower, shotgun is incredibly strong and hard aiming is heavily rewarded... it's really dumb. Gow1 has it's problems, but that shotgun is so much better then gow2's piece of ****.
Uh, what? The wallbounce is much faster. It is less situational, too. If you roll when you run, movement is faster. Standing movement for strafing is relieved by the fact that wallbouncing is more player friendlu.
Hardaiming is only rewarded because of the speed of the hardaim while aiming down the sight. It can be just as bad in gears 1. The only difference is that good players don't in gears one because the speed of the hardaim almost completely defines the metagame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TnGxaX41UI watch that if you wanna watch an amazing montage :3 They made 3 vids, and also placed well at events. I think they got 2nd last year at.. I wanna say Dallas? I'm not sure :\
That was silly. Those were pubs and I saw two piecing all over the place.
The only thing impressive about that was the strafing. Plus, you're looking at players who are willing to go to every extent to make sure they win. They don't care about competitive healthiness. The same can be said about the players who hardaim online.

responses in boooold.
EDIT:

Also, IMO wall bouncing got really over rated with gow2... People tend to want to press A after every shot, and that's pretty bad. People go to security's balcony and just start wall bouncing the same wall, thinking it's doing something for them. To be honest, that's when a melee is expected >:3

Two piecing is frowned upon in the competitive community. also, just because they made wallbouncing accessible to mediocre players, it doesn't mean everyone does it right.

 

[ThreeX]

I still don't understand what you're trying to say with the power weapons. No one cares that no one would complain about shotgun if everyone started off with a torque. You said how shotgun is nothing compared to power weapons, and that's true. Power weapons are superior, that's why you have to go and WIN that position on the map, and your reward is the power weapon, which may lead you to a victory for that round.

Gow1 shotgun didn't come close to gow2's range, I don't know what else to say except go on and check.

Those were NOT pubs, they were scrims. Two piecing is frowned upon ONLINE, and to be honest, I don't consider online "competitive" at all.

"You're looking at players who are willing to go to every extent to make sure they win" When money is on the line, isn't that what you expect from players?

 

[Wretched]

each of my paragraphs will correspond to yours.

My point, which when reading over my post seems to be vague, is that the shotgun can't be overpowered in a game where there are three main weapons and then power weapons. I'm trying to say that, while I don't agree that it does have too much range COMPARED to gears 1, even if it was "overpowered", it would still have no competitors. You start off with the same shotgun that everyone else has, so even if it is overpowered, as you say, the same tool is at your disposal.

Look, I do check. I play both games DAILY. I get at least 2-3 matches in, per game. I do check everyday, and if you take a moment to try hardaiming a still person, it has nearly the same effects. The only difference is that hardaiming is applicable in gears 2 because ADS is fast.

Oh, sorry. They seemed like pubs. The players were pretty inaccurate, and I'm sure that the way they play MLG is a completely different matter. And also, two piecing is frowned everywhere except for when people are desperate to win.

Yeah, absolutely, and I would at tournaments too, but when playing online, its a completely different story.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Only situation I'll two piece in is if I'm double teamed.

It's just flat out boring to do 1 v 1.

 

[Fuelbi]

So anybody here wanna play some Gears 2 anytime? I swear I need someone to teach me this game because I have no idea htf to wallbounce, clipping, two piecing, etc. and I'm tired of getting owned everytime I play

 

[Pluvia]

Wretched it doesn't matter if everyone has a shotgun, it's still overpowered, and that makes the game unfun. It makes pretty much all power weapons bar the Torque useless.

Remember that tactical weekend when the lancer became incredibly OP? All everyone did was sit in cover and lancer each other from across the map. That's not fun. Everyone starting with a long range OP shotgun? That's not fun.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Dude shot gun battles pretty much define GoW2...

And you're underestimating the Hammerburst/Lancer you can still down people pretty **** fast from a distance.

 

[ThreeX]

each of my paragraphs will correspond to yours.

My point, which when reading over my post seems to be vague, is that the shotgun can't be overpowered in a game where there are three main weapons and then power weapons. I'm trying to say that, while I don't agree that it does have too much range COMPARED to gears 1, even if it was "overpowered", it would still have no competitors. You start off with the same shotgun that everyone else has, so even if it is overpowered, as you say, the same tool is at your disposal.

Hard aimed unactive/active does too much. You shouldn't be able to pretty much one shot down someone, or continue to shoot someone and eventually down them from the distance that you can. I can't stress this enough.

Oh, sorry. They seemed like pubs. The players were pretty inaccurate, and I'm sure that the way they play MLG is a completely different matter. And also, two piecing is frowned everywhere except for when people are desperate to win.

What do you mean you're sure that they play differently in an MLG environment? Don't assume, go ahead and watch matches. Get Bronco is known for having the best shotguns, and they have proven that. I would provide you with the video of anaheim finals, but I guess the youtube acc. got terminated.. so that's not gonna happen.

I'll say it again, two piecing isn't frowned upon, except for online warriors. Look up the early GoW2 MLG matches/scrims, please.

Yeah, absolutely, and I would at tournaments too, but when playing online, its a completely different story.

To go back to that montage I had sent, the matches were all scrims or actual GB matches. It's not just "online" it was either playing for a win/loss ratio for GB, or practicing for GB/MLG. In practice you should be expecting "people who are desperate to win"

 

[Pluvia]

Dude shot gun battles pretty much define GoW2...

And you're underestimating the Hammerburst/Lancer you can still down people pretty **** fast from a distance.

Shotgun battles defined gears, but then they mentioned that the shotgun was the most used weapon, and seeing as though Epic has never heard the saying "If it's not broken don't fix it", they made the shotgun long range and stronger with TU6. And they did the same with the Lancer, it's now more powerful than the Hammerburst. You can down 1 person with a clip of Hammer, but 2 or 3 with a clip of Lancer.

TU6 made that game unplayable, I really hope the beta is nothing like it.

 

[WindMajor]

I just played Gears 2 for the first time since summer.

I miss this game so much. :')

 

[Wretched]

The whole center of the issue is that you guys don't understand how similar the shotgun is in both games.
I went into gears 1, locally, and stood between the doorway into the big warehouse. I shot someone who was standing on the other side and it took two shots to down on both games when I hardaimed.
I had the SAME RESULTS when I did it on gears 2. That isn't definitive enough, though, so I got against the far walls inside and hardaimed a shot at the same person. Three shots didn't down on either game.
I can try it anywhere else once I go back to my friends, and I'll to more hardaim range testing if necessary.

 

[Pluvia]

The range on Gears 1 is nowhere near the same.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I still don't see the point of arguing if the shotgun has longer range or not... Everyone can use one and it's SUPPOSED to be the most used weapon of choice and it always has been.

Only thing that happens is less camping with Hamerbursts and Lancers. Since when is that a bad thing?

 

[ThreeX]

I still don't see the point of arguing if the shotgun has longer range or not... Everyone can use one and it's SUPPOSED to be the most used weapon of choice and it always has been.

Only thing that happens is less camping with Hamerbursts and Lancers. Since when is that a bad thing?

Because shotguns fights are a joke now.
Because this game doesn't require as much skill as it used to.
Long range battles are still extremely important when you have team mates, not brain-deads.

You guys have to remember that "camping with hammerbursts/lancers" isn't a bad thing. Epic specifically said they wanted GoW2 to be more of a tactical cover shooter, not a run & gun with shotgun shooter (similar to gow1, and even then.. lancer was pretty important in gow1)

 

[Pluvia]

Yeah Epic has never wanted it to be the way it is. That's why they added stopping power and upped the power of assault rifles, and added smoke grenades that down you, and added a huge pause between sprinting and shooting your shotgun. All of that bar the smoke grenades is still in the game, and it took them over a year before they finally admitted that the shotgun was the most used weapon, so they for some stupid reason decided to break something that wasn't broken.

Look how rubbish the Boomshot is compared to the shotgun for example, or the Mulcher, or the Longshot. All of them are power weapons that you have to fight for and all of them are dreadful compared to a weapon everyone starts off with. That's not balance, that's not fun, it makes so much in this game completely pointless.