Ganondorf's Storage Area (TOPIC 1 Specific Strategies SPEED BLITZERS)

[@HomE]

Well i'm kinda drawing a blank on Fast falling.. i dont fast fall much... the only thing i can think of that i fast fall almost every time is F-air, i love how that feels when i fast fall it.

I cant think of anything else ATM ill edit later if i can think of something..

Edit: well i think we all probably fastfall when we are in the freefall animation just to get to the ground fast, i feel like thats almost to obvious to say... and about what Kalm said, fastfalling empty jumps to make Ganon's over movment appear overall faster is a real good idea, it probably helps his overall mobility also...

 

[Noobicidal]

I fast-fall offstage a lot, mostly for falling uairs or dairs. Onstage I'm pretty limited to Fast-falled RAR's.

 

[PhantomX]

Fast Falling shouldn't really be done with someone as slow and as big a target as Ganon, as it gives you more frames of landing lag, and limits his already limited mobility. Fastfall when you need to, but Ganon is one of the characters I fastfall the least with (I'll do open FFs with Wario b/c he can retreat them really quickly).

 

[Noobicidal]

Fast Falling shouldn't really be done with someone as slow and as big a target as Ganon, as it gives you more frames of landing lag, and limits his already limited mobility. Fastfall when you need to, but Ganon is one of the characters I fastfall the least with (I'll do open FFs with Wario b/c he can retreat them really quickly).

Yeah, landing lag is one of the reasons why I hardly FF onstage. Offstage however, fast-falling can put you in a better position for gimping or killing your opponent. I pretty much always fast-fall tipman opponents with quick recoveries (Marth comes to mind) due to the fact that you usually won't be able to hit them recovering fast enough if you just fall offstage.

Assuming you can recover from it, fast-falling is crazy offstage.

 

[Squirrely]

I agree with fast-falling being something to avoid with Ganon. He doesn't auto-cancel unless you jump with the strictest timing.

Obviously you should fast-fall if you need to get to the ground right away but that should go without saying for every character.
Like for instance, I'm above my opponent and they do a horizontal move by accident or something, I'll fast-fall a stomp or a b-air to punish and take the lag if it'll put them in a position where they can't punish me for doing this, which is usually only in the killing percents because Ganon's landing lag blows.

Oh and fast-falling off-stage scares the crap out of me with my poor recovery. But props to you if you can pull this kinda thing off.

 

[Noobicidal]

Oh and fast-falling off-stage scares the crap out of me with my poor recovery. But props to you if you can pull this kinda thing off.

Dark Dive has the perfect vertical recovery distance for Fast-falled U/Dair - Second Jump - DD.

 

[PhantomX]

Only time I'll fastfall is if I've hit my opponent away and I have some RCO lag to get rid of.

 

[Z1GMA]

I disagree with most of you guys, when it comes to fast falling.

The fact that Ganon gets more landing lag with FF is a minus, yes.
But there's more more minuses to NOT FF'ing, than to do it.

FF'ing makes Ganon way less predictiable.

Example:
AC SH rising Bair spacing a couple times, then AC SH rising Bair spacing FF -> Fsmash. (Yes, SH Bair auto cancels even with a FF)

Only time I'll fastfall is if I've hit my opponent away and I have some RCO lag to get rid of.

FF >>> RCO lag, yes. That's very important. Every Ganon should do that as quick as possible.

 

[Gleam]

I'd take the reckoning that one should also try to FF fair whenever possible correct?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

There really isn't any ending lag on Ganon's fastfall. Though there is a animation Ganon gets if you fastfalled before the highest reach of Ganon's shorthop, which itself is full of IASA frames, infact that's actually a good thing, those IASA frames benefit Ganon's bait and trap game.

 

[@HomE]

I'd take the reckoning that one should also try to FF fair whenever possible correct?

FFing the F-air makes the hitbox cover a larger area (and it just feels so good)


(correct me if im wrong)

 

[Ray_Kalm]

FFing the F-air makes the hitbox cover a larger area (and it just feels so good)


(correct me if im wrong)

He was talking about FAir's lag, no matter how high Ganon is, the lag on it can't be cancelled.

 

[@HomE]

He was talking about FAir's lag, no matter how high Ganon is, the lag on it can't be cancelled.

Oh I didnt know he was talking about the landing lag, thats one of the reasons i never really use F-air I'm not confident enough that i'll land the hit and the landing lag is brutal.

But about the hitbox thing, doesnt the FFing the F-air give it a "better" hitbox so to speak?

 

[PhantomX]

Fair is great to punish airdodgers b/c it's slow to come out and has a hefty hitbox.

 

[:034:]

He was talking about FAir's lag, no matter how high Ganon is, the lag on it can't be cancelled.

Actually, you can cancel it if you full jump, then at the peak do a rising fair. It's pretty useless though >_> Best way to use fair is to use it off-stage, no landing lag if you don't land.

As for other fast-falling stuff, bair can AC with a fast fall, you can FF full jump nair and I think there's an insanely small window of time where you can fast fall AC uair.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Actually, you can cancel it if you full jump, then at the peak do a rising fair. It's pretty useless though >_> Best way to use fair is to use it off-stage, no landing lag if you don't land.

As for other fast-falling stuff, bair can AC with a fast fall, you can FF full jump nair and I think there's an insanely small window of time where you can fast fall AC uair.

Well, I knew that. I new just how useless that would be, so I didn't bother mentioning it.

 

[Z1GMA]

and I think there's an insanely small window of time where you can fast fall AC uair

Yep, you're right. And it's VERY effective to input the "late" FF after the Tipman connects, making "Tipman Combos" (Tipman -> Ftilt) more successful, even though it's pretty much garanteed even ithout the FF on most characters.

Gerudo on the other hand, LOVES the connecting Uair+FF -> into itself (Gerudo).

 

[:034:]

Well, I knew that. I new just how useless that would be, so I didn't bother mentioning it.

Yeah, it's really not very useful at all XD

Yep, you're right. And it's VERY effective to input the "late" FF after the Tipman connects, making "Tipman Combos" (Tipman -> Ftilt) more successful, even though it's pretty much garanteed even ithout the FF on most characters.

Gerudo on the other hand, LOVES the connecting Uair+FF -> into itself (Gerudo).

Really? Hmmm, I'll try that out next time..

 

[Gleam]

Alright next topic, the last from Z1GMA's list...Opponents DI.

Discuss.

 

[Z1GMA]

I now it sounds stupid and that it's not a reliable strategy at all.
But what experience do you guys have in Shield Breaking?

Gerudo is the worst enemy of Shield Breaking.

 

[:034:]

lol @ shield breaking in Brawl

 

[Z1GMA]

lol @ shield breaking in Brawl

Yeah, I know it's stupid. But still, I love when it DOES happen :]

 

[@HomE]

Ok... Opponents DI, well its hard to say.... I don't really notice/pay attention to their DI much with Ganon i suppose, i generally watch DI when i throw people, and i would say i average about 0 grabs a game with Ganon sooo yea... I just watch and follow...

 

[thexsunrosered]

Ok... Opponents DI, well its hard to say.... I don't really notice/pay attention to their DI much with Ganon i suppose, i generally watch DI when i throw people, and i would say i average about 0 grabs a game with Ganon sooo yea... I just watch and follow...

=O lol are you kidding me?
reading DI and prediction is what ganon is all about! we don't have lasers to stop approaches of turnips to fudge recoveries, so we have to learn to read people and punish them for it.

i bet you do read their DI you just don't realize

 

[@HomE]

=O lol are you kidding me?
reading DI and prediction is what ganon is all about! we don't have lasers to stop approaches of turnips to fudge recoveries, so we have to learn to read people and punish them for it.

i bet you do read their DI you just don't realize

Yea, if by read DI you mean, follow them after i hit them, then yes... but its not something i think about, and Ganon's attacks seem to send the opponent at a predictable enough angle were i dont really have to consider their input much, maybe the people i play against arnt good at DI, or maybe im just so good i was born reading people's DI.

i duno

 

[Z1GMA]

If someone jumps down the STAGE to gimp/spike you, you can time your recovering Uair so that you hit them just as the press down+A (Or C-down) - making them DI stagespike themselves, sort of.
(Assuming they would't be low enough to get stagespiked if they didn't use their Dair)

Also, when you're recovering high and the opponent rushes towards you (Will most likely attack you with an aerial). If you Counter with a Dair, he'll hopefully DI Spike himself, even tough there IS solid ground under him.

And don't you just love when you hit that Ftilt on Ike right before his down+B comes out? - Making him semi spike himself, sort of ^^

 

[@HomE]

If someone jumps down the ledge to gimp/spike you, you can time your recovering Uair so that you hit them just as the press down+A (Or C-down) - making them DI stagespike themselves, sort of.
(Assuming they would't be low enough to get stagespiked if they didn't use their Dair)

Also, when you're recovering high and the opponent rushes towards you (Will most likely attack you with an aerial). If you Counter with a Dair, he'll hopefully DI Spike himself, even tough there IS solid ground under him.

And don't you just love when you hit that Ftilt on Ike right before his down+B comes out? - Making him semi spike himself, sort of ^^

I'm not sure if i understand your first point, so if someone was hanging on the edge waiting for you to recover and tries to attack you, U-air stage spike them? where does the DI come into play there? I almost never stage spike people (except for the DK CSS i can do that **** before you can blink, just try to hold up )

Your second point hits home for me a little, when im recovering high i tend to get Down-B spikes, and if they opponent is trying to hit me they usually DI towards the edge of the stage and get spiked, i love that it looks sexy..

and 3rd, F-tilt always kills Ike no DI required

 

[Z1GMA]

and 3rd, F-tilt always kills Ike no DI required

It can kill him at 60% if he's DI'ing down.

 

[Gleam]

Update now. Finished up OPPONENT DI

Next topic..."SHORT CHARACTERS" Now I got a bit of info on this before during this topic. Particularly about Wiz Kick going under crouching characters and stuff. Once I even broke an Olimar's shield, warlock punched....and missed.

WTF!

Anyways, if there's anything else that should be notified on Short characters put it in. I'll put the next update in about 3-5 days.

 

[@HomE]

Spoiler

Bump

Short chars are really ****ty for Ganon... its more difficult to land almost every move in his move set. That makes moves like Dtilt, DA, and FTilt more important. I have a harder time landing stomps, aerial SideB's could miss...

I dunno... short people suck..

 

[Gleam]

Update after a while. New topic "SPEED BLITZERS." What do against those like Sonic, Falcon, who like to just zip around the stage and all that jazz?

Punch em mid run?

 

[Z1GMA]

Snake can just stand there and hold A Vs Sonic. heh..

Buffered SH Dair's and/or buffered reverse Uair's.

 

[Breezy]

Teabag. Srsly. Mindgame 'em into to rushin in when they think you're just ****in around and murder their face with one of Ganon's size 32 boots

 

[-Mars-]

One thing I love to do as Ganon when my opponent is in the air above me is empty FH, bait the airodge and punish their landing lag with a Gerudo. Seriously it is hella easier to catch people with Gerudo to punish their landing lag then it is to hit them with something in the air.

 

[Z1GMA]

- Ye, Gerudo Landchasing is too good.

And if the opponent gets used to it, he'll try to predict it and counter with an aerial as he lands.
But then you'll just delay your Gerudo a few frames - punishing the lag of their attack instead.