Ganondorf

[Robert of Normandy]

Which raises an interessting question: if Ganondorf did not appear in Melee, (and King Dedede would've filled in the spot for those clone characters) you think Ganondorf would've been in Brawl? I'm guessing not actually...

Probably. I think Sakurai would have eventually wanted to complete the Triforce Trio at some point.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm willing to bet by Brawl, Ganondorf would have made it.
By this time, he would have 3 games under his belt with more than enough to make an interesting moveset taking from all three.
EDIT: And given his pre-Melee popularity, I'm pretty sure it would carry over to pre-Brawl as well.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

Okay, 1, you didn't answer my question. And 2, what does writing have to do with character movesets? I assume you mean character design.

Oops, I didn't. Sorry.

The reason that keep characters as clones encourages more clones is because it gives Nintendo a 'don't care' attitude towards it. It should all depend on crowd response.

They added more clones in Brawl, some in the form of new characters. They'll keep getting away with it, too, unless they get a lot of fan reaction (which they have, and Sakurai has said in this http://nintendoenthusiast.com/super-smash-bros-wii-u-3ds/ that they will try fix it up) or negative reviews/penalised for lazy game development and design, they will keep doing it.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Oops, I didn't. Sorry.

The reason that keep characters as clones encourages more clones is because it gives Nintendo a 'don't care' attitude towards it. It should all depend on crowd response.

I don't see why it does. They're not adding anything, they're just keeping something the way it already was before.

They added more clones in Brawl, some in the form of new characters. They'll keep getting away with it, too, unless they get a lot of fan reaction (which they have, and Sakurai has said in this http://nintendoenthusiast.com/super-smash-bros-wii-u-3ds/ that they will try fix it up) or negative reviews/penalised for lazy game development and design, they will keep doing it.

Hardly. Lucas barely qualifies as a clone, and Wolf isn't a clone at all. Not to mention they cut 3 clones, and replaced another one with a Luigified expy, meaning that even if you count Wolf, the total number of clones went down from Melee to Brawl. So, yeah, I still don't see how keeping characters who were already clones the way they are encourages adding clones.

 

[Deleted member]

The fact that the article states that Sakurai said he wants to include a Capcom character leads me to not believe anything it says on what he said.
Seeing as Sakurai has NOT said that, he merely said that one wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

The fact that the article states that Sakurai said he wants to include a Capcom character leads me to not believe anything it says on what he said.
Seeing as Sakurai has NOT said that, he merely said that one wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility.

The article paraphrases Sakurai. He has all his sources at the bottom and all he writes is what Nintendo have said - no personal opinion. Sakurai didn't say "A CAPCOM CHARACTER WILL BE IN BRAWL" but instead that the possibility is there and it wouldn't be as unlikely as people think because CAPCOM have crossed-over in other games (MARVEL vs CAPCOM, for example).

@Other dude I'm talking to, I don't think Wolf or Lucas are clones of Fox/Falco or Ness. Although Ness and Lucas are fairly similar, especially with special moves, final smashes and their smash moves having fairly similar attributes. They still function in a different enough way, like Wolf and Fox/Falco (although I still argue Wolf is not a clone).

What about Link and Toon Link? Falcon and Ganon? Fox and Falco?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

What about Link and Toon Link? Falcon and Ganon? Fox and Falco?

Yes, those are clones. I never said they weren't. However, fot TL and Falco, it makes sense for them to be clones. In Ganondorfs case, I think he should somehow be able to switch between his old(clone) moveset and a new, sword and magic based moveset.

Also, you stated that Brawl added clones, which it did not, which is why I brought up Lucas and Wolf.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

Yes, those are clones. I never said they weren't. However, fot TL and Falco, it makes sense for them to be clones. In Ganondorfs case, I think he should somehow be able to switch between his old(clone) moveset and a new, sword and magic based moveset.

Also, you stated that Brawl added clones, which it did not, which is why I brought up Lucas and Wolf.

I do understand that. Toon Link is Link, while Falco is Fox's partner so you'd expect partners to fight similarly. However, especially in Toon/Young Link's case, it wastes a spot. Not necessarily for a Zelda character, but for any character.

Switching moveset will probably make Ganon too overpowered. What made Ganon so awful was that his slow, combo-less moveset with no rapid attacks was his only choice. Some characters could've been slow or had slow moves, but subsequently had moves that were also fast or used rapid attacks (Bowser, for example). They had a variety of attacks. Ganon did not.

I think Ganondorf has been fast, fluent and agile in all Zelda games he's appeared. Even in Twilight Princess, the way he moves and jumps is similar to Brawl... except faster and generally better.

And will they finally give him that f*cking magic attack he's used in every 3D Zelda game!?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I do understand that. Toon Link is Link, while Falco is Fox's partner so you'd expect partners to fight similarly. However, especially in Toon/Young Link's case, it wastes a spot. Not necessarily for a Zelda character, but for any character.

I like Toon Link.

Seriously doubt Toon Link staying really keeps any other character from getting in.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Same here. And Toon Link will probably stay with Wind Waker around. Which should boost Ganondorf's chances with an unique moveset as well. Only Zelda character I can see getting the boot is Sheik.

Toon Link was a much better addition than Young Link was in Melee. So I don't even get the hate. Falco plays in Brawl as Falco should play. There's no reason he should be totally unique. Same with Toon Link. It makes sence for both characters to have similarities to Link and Fox. Fox and Falco had millitary training togheter iirc, and Link = Link. Toon Link does use a few moves regular Link never did, and vise versa so they can use that to make them more unique.

Speaking of Ganon, I think his Wind Waker style allows for a very defensive playstyle. Which would include a few fast counter attacks. So that would surely help his style.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

Speaking of Ganon, I think his Wind Waker style allows for a very defensive playstyle. Which would include a few fast counter attacks. So that would surely help his style.

I hope they don't use his WW design, though. He looks ridiculous.

Swprds and defensive play would be great. Then again, a better-than-Melee Ganon would also be great. Either are positive options.

 

[Big-Cat]

Defensive? I don't quite see that. I see more spacing and landing risky, explosive combos.

And why do you think Ganondorf looks ridiculous? You think he looks fat?

 

[Diddy Kong]

He's old, and likely was alcoholic at some point guessing from his face. Still, he's the most awesome Ganondorf yet cause of his portraited personality.

Also, dat moveset.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

Defensive? I don't quite see that. I see more spacing and landing risky, explosive combos.

And why do you think Ganondorf looks ridiculous? You think he looks fat?

Ganondorf in Wind Waker. He's basically wearing a dress. Aside from that, his current Twilight Princess model in HD with updated graphics and more detailed visuals would look way better than a watercolour, very Wii-looking 'Toon Ganon' or 'Wind Waker Ganon'.

I don't think he looks fat. He can lift up people and animals with his arm and fully extend it above his head, I'm assuming he's bulky as f**k because of muscle. His legs have immense power.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ganondorf in Wind Waker. He's basically wearing a dress. Aside from that, his current Twilight Princess model in HD with updated graphics and more detailed visuals would look way better than a watercolour, very Wii-looking 'Toon Ganon' or 'Wind Waker Ganon'.

Wii-looking?

....

Wat?

I want TP style Ganondorf as well but at the same time there's nothing really wrong with WW Ganondorf especially if that means we get twin swords in his moveset.

Also he wears that dress quite nicely.

 

[Ember Reaper]

WW ganon could introduce a pretty sweet moveset actually. duel wielding, acrobatic, still a warlock, it'd be pretty sick

 

[GetBentSaggy]

They don't need to change his appearance to change his moveset.

Ganondorf is Ganondorf, no matter what version. The idea is that they should be able to incorporate moves from all his versions, like Mario.

Toon Link has essentially the same moveset as Link (in fact it might be almost the exact same) but he's from a different Zelda game than 'regular Link'.

 

[chriscapnz]

give him 7 swords.

 

[nessokman]

The truth.....

 

[GetBentSaggy]

Nintendo should hugely buff Ganon (I'm talking top 5 tier here, my Smash Brothers!) and release a video titled:

Ganondorf: Revenge of the Bottom Tier

 

[IAm2Sarcastic4U]

Don't play Zelda games so I'm not too familiar with Ganondorf. During one of his taunts in Brawl, he pulls out a sword. I'm assuming in the Zelda games, he uses a sword for a weapon. Why not base a moveset as a swordsman?

 

[MarioNPinkie]

Don't play Zelda games so I'm not too familiar with Ganondorf. During one of his taunts in Brawl, he pulls out a sword. I'm assuming in the Zelda games, Ganondorf has a sword for a weapon. Why not base a moveset as swordsman?

It could be possible that ganon would actually use his sword in his moveset in sm4sh but thats my speculation i mean it would make sense to at least use it since he has it on him

 

[OmegaRS]

Don't play Zelda games so I'm not too familiar with Ganondorf. During one of his taunts in Brawl, he pulls out a sword. I'm assuming in the Zelda games, Ganondorf has a sword for a weapon. Why not base a moveset as swordsman?

The two most recent incarnations of Ganondorf have used swords. In Wind Waker, he used two small swords, and in Twilight Princess he uses the sword that he pulls out for his taunt. Ganon however has always been a trident wielder. Only the most recent Ganons have used swords. That's what's up with all the trident vs. sword talk earlier in the topic.

Though I think him using his sword would be nice, I don't think it's needed. But what he really doesn't need is to have Captain Falcon's specials again. The only special I would keep is the flame choke.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ganondorf kinda needs a 'staple' moveset though. One he could use in the upcoming Smash games as well (where they to be made). I would LOVE twin blade swinging WW Ganondorf, but don't think he'd be the best to represent Ganondorf as a whole throughout the 'Ages of Smash'. And that's where my head starts hurting....

 

[Deleted member]

Ganondorf's Melee sword was quite epic...

 

[FalKoopa]

They didn't use it when they had the chance in brawl.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

Ganondorf's Melee sword was quite epic...

If he had a sword, I wouldn't give him that sword because it requires 2 hands. It'd limit the variety Ganondorf could have.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Still think he should have a trident

 

[FalKoopa]

If he had a sword, I wouldn't give him that sword because it requires 2 hands. It'd limit the variety Ganondorf could have.

I remember him swinging it with one hand in a victory pose.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

I remember him swinging it with one hand in a victory pose.

Oh, never mind then. I thought he swung it 2 handed, which is why I said it.

That sword would be fine, then. It looks big enough to be used for melee attacks (on the flat side) so it could add new styles of moves.

 

[Deleted member]

Not only that, but he used it in one hand in the Spaceworld Demo.

 

[Diddy Kong]

 

[Deleted member]

Your point?
The swords are not the same. Whatsoever.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Neither are Marth's Falchion and Roy's Sword of Seals.

Point: we already have a very strong sword user who uses a zweihander with one hand.

 

[IAm2Sarcastic4U]

he's beautiful

 

[Diddy Kong]

No, he's Ike.

 

[Deleted member]

Neither are Marth's Falchion and Roy's Sword of Seals.

Point: we already have a very strong sword user who uses a zweihander with one hand.

OMG GANONDORF WITH MELEE SWORD WOULD BE IKE RIP-OFF.


There is no proof whatsoever that Ganondorf's sword is a zweilhander, considering that Ganondorf is the only one to wield it and is able to swing it with ease.
It could very well be a large sword that can be wielded in one hand, as such swords exist. A perfect Zelda example would be Darknuts, as one in Twilight Princess has a sword just like it outside of design, and it uses the sword in one hand due to the other holding a shield.
Other Darknuts within the game and the series in general typically have similarly sized swords.

Inferring by this, it seems as the blade isn't nearly as heavy as Ragnell, and if Ganondorf were to use it, the attacks with it would be comparable to Link's Master Sword in speed and possibly power. Though it would have greater range.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No better example would be Phantom Ganon's sword in Wind Waker. Link carries it with both hands, while Phantom Ganon can easily weild it with one arm.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

When one has the Triforce of Power, using heavy objects shouldn't be a big deal.

I prefer TP Ganondorf's Light Brand, really.

...the same Light Brand that was meant to kill him.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

I didn't want a double post. Guess my computer was screwing with me... again.