Ganondorf Sword Mode for ProjectM

[_Ganondorf_]

Wow didn't expect such a quick update. Really cool man. I'm gonna test this one out in abit.

Also I think it would be cool if you can make Sword Ganon stand alone PSA so you can fully customize Sword Ganon without compromising and/or balancing for Fist Ganon. Also than it would allow you to change his grab stuff.

I got and idea; if you keep his Melee/PM Jab for Sword Ganon (it is an original move for Ganon) would that free up an animation slot for possibly a new animation for a longer grab? I don't know exactly how this PSA thing work but it might be an idea? If not the Jab his original D-Air is a good option since it does totally fit Ganondorf.

 

[l3thargy]

I have to admit this worked out way better than I imagined. You can feel the slowness, a bit of frustration and the power. My match-up playtest turned out much better also, it is odd that it becomes easier to hit with a slower speed.

Version 2.1b (Test)
This is the reverse, instead of nerfing damage this instead nerfs the attack speed and adds more lag. Surprisingly this works out better. Might have to do a vote.

Damage: All damage are same as 2.0

Jab: Slow 30%
F-Tilt: No change
U-Tilt: Slow 30%
D-Tilt: Slow 30%

F-Smash: Slow 30%, both start-up and hit
U-Smash: Slow 30%, hit only
D-Smash: Slow 30%, hit only

F-Air: Slow 15%, These has already been slowed to begin with
B-Air: No change
U-Air: Slow 15%
D-Air: Slow 15%

Neutral-B: No change
Side-B: No change
Up-B: Slow 15%
Down-B: Start-up slow 40%, Hit slow 10%, Ending slow 50%

DashAttack: Slow 15%

Download http://www.mediafire.com/download/s0p1awi47z489h5/Ganondorf v2.1b.zip

would you be able to put up a video of the changes in this download? I'm currently without the game right now

 

[Wigls]

Your work is incredible, that is all.

 

[Handy Man]

I've been wanting to try out this hack for a while now, but I can't due to a Ganondorf SFX mod that I have. It needs a pac file to function, but the SFX won't work correctly if I overwrite the pac file for the SFX hack with the pac file for this. Does anyone know how to merge the 2.1 Ganondorf Sword moveset with this SFX hack for Ganondorf? (It says Demo 2.6b, but it has been updated for Demo 3.0.)

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=31661&Vault=audio

 

[Jade_Rock55]

I only played 2.1 for like a couple matches!

 

[210stuna]

I did too, and it was against a computer, BUT I like what I am seeing.

A move I think could be toned down is his down tilt. Also I thought his back air was only supposed to be electric if it connects?

I do miss his 2 hit forward smash from before, it adds options to that move like what they did with Link's and Ike's down smash. With the right balances I think it could come back.

There was another move that I noticed, but I can't remember at the moment.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

So 2.1b is just a slower version of 2.1?

I guess it makes since so I now have a reason to use fist ganon.

 

[Weichafe]

I have to admit this worked out way better than I imagined. You can feel the slowness, a bit of frustration and the power. My match-up playtest turned out much better also, it is odd that it becomes easier to hit with a slower speed.

I totally agree. Definitely the 2.1b version is much better than version 2.1. I'm impressed how fast this project is progressing ... I think the balance is getting better without losing fun, and the gameplay of Sword Ganon has improved tremendously.

I think the idea of GanonFist to bring back the original jab is very good because the Jab and Dash-Attack of Sword Ganon are too similar.

Finally I wanted to ask if you plan to do some cosmetic improvements in the future. Just for asking.

Again thank you for your excellent work!

 

[210stuna]

Or animation improvements like when the moveset is down to make the charging animations fluid and what not

 

[_Ganondorf_]

I have to admit this worked out way better than I imagined. You can feel the slowness, a bit of frustration and the power. My match-up playtest turned out much better also, it is odd that it becomes easier to hit with a slower speed.

Version 2.1b (Test)
This is the reverse, instead of nerfing damage this instead nerfs the attack speed and adds more lag. Surprisingly this works out better. Might have to do a vote.

Damage: All damage are same as 2.0

Jab: Slow 30%
F-Tilt: No change
U-Tilt: Slow 30%
D-Tilt: Slow 30%

F-Smash: Slow 30%, both start-up and hit
U-Smash: Slow 30%, hit only
D-Smash: Slow 30%, hit only

F-Air: Slow 15%, These has already been slowed to begin with
B-Air: No change
U-Air: Slow 15%
D-Air: Slow 15%

Neutral-B: No change
Side-B: No change
Up-B: Slow 15%
Down-B: Start-up slow 40%, Hit slow 10%, Ending slow 50%

DashAttack: Slow 15%

Download http://www.mediafire.com/download/s0p1awi47z489h5/Ganondorf v2.1b.zip

Alright, after testing this one out it feels MUCH better but I still think a few twicks are in order.

1: F-air is good but now feels weak do to it being such a "heavy" looking swing so I suggest a buff in KO power possibly no sour spot also.
2: U-Air was already pretty slow I suggest only slowing down by 5%
3: D-Air is too slow, the end lag makes me SD when trying to meteor an opponent. Maybe just 5% slower would suffice.
4: Jab is too slow, F-tilt is a better Jab now. I suggest bring back PM jab or just keep your original Jab speed.
5: U-tilt and D-tilt end lag feels good but they start up too slow so their combo potential is almost completely gone, I suggest keep the end lag but make it start up faster. If thats not possible maybe just slow them down by 15% instead of 30% cause 30% is too slow.
6: dash attack was already slow I suggest only slowing down by 5%, 15% is too much.
7: Up B shouldn't have gotten slower, in 3.0 PM gave it a speed buff for a reason I suggest revert it back.
8: Down B is a little too slow, I think 30% start-up slow, hit slow 10%, and ending slow 40% would be a good balance.

All the smash attacks feel phenomenal! But what I lined up above should be addressed. And the moves that stay as slow as they are should get KO and damage buffs, like an extra 10% KO and damage potential on F-air would balance out the slowness, Same with F-smash etc.

Another job well done my friend!

EDIT: also I believe you kept N-Air the same speed which is perfect.
Also since we're going in the "Spell Sword" direction could you give electricity to his F-tilt? (Like B-air). And if you can't change the grab animations could you add electricity affect to the hits? Just so he feels like his using magic and to de-clonify him further.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

I did too, and it was against a computer, BUT I like what I am seeing.

A move I think could be toned down is his down tilt. Also I thought his back air was only supposed to be electric if it connects?

I do miss his 2 hit forward smash from before, it adds options to that move like what they did with Link's and Ike's down smash. With the right balances I think it could come back.

There was another move that I noticed, but I can't remember at the moment.

The B-air electricity was my suggestion to make Ganon be more unieqe to C.Falcon and also to make him feel more like a Spell Sword wizard.

Also I also miss te old F-smash bu the new one is just overall better.

 

[210stuna]

Ah in that case it does make more sense, and is better overall. Cosmetically speaking, I'm no game developer or anything.

I like the new Up smash, it helps with the wizard thing. The up tilt is better too.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Another idea I have: I know this mod I not about changing Fist Ganon at all. But since Fist Ganon also needs a longer reaching grab would it it be possible for you to change his Grab animation and range entirely? I think it would be really good unless it's stepping into the boundaries you set for your self with this project.

 

[The Father]

I just found out about this today, and this is the best mod to come to PM! I honestly hope the final release of sword Ganon will be so balanced that the PMBR will introduce this in a future update! I have a few suggestions for this, after playing around with it for a little bit.

Since PM Ganon should be left the same and he is more of an outright killer than a comboer, I think sword Ganon should have some more combo-able moves, while still having heavy moves with high knockback and damage. I liked how 2.1's Dtilt and Utilt had combo potential, even though it was a bit too much. From what I saw, it seemed like they had little to no knockback growth. I think increasing the knockback as percentages increase would be a perfect workaround, instead of slowing the moves down. This way, the moves will be able to combo until a certain percent, so people can't just combo all the way to 200%. I like that you gave most of the combo-able moves short range, like the Utilt, Dtilt and Bair. Otherwise sword Ganon would be similar to a heavy Marth.

Ganon's sword attacks should be slower than his fist attacks, because he has to swing such a heavy sword. I think attacks like his Fair, Fsmash and DownB should be slower, but have higher damage and knockback than the fist mode attacks. But please don't slow Dair. I've SD'd enough times by going for meteors like I would with fist Ganon.

I also think the effects of attacks, like the electricity on the Usmash, should only activate on hit. It makes it feel more rewarding to land, at least for moves that are difficult to land. This has a downside too though - I wouldn't be able to see that awesome lightning as often!

Other than these, I agree with GanonFist's opinions about 2.1b, especially the jab. The jab should be a weaker, but faster attack than Ftilt, and maybe fist Ganon's jab could work. The 2 hit chain you guys were talking about a couple pages back could also work, as long as the total damage from it wouldn't be too high. Thanks for putting so much time into this Ashingda, your work is appreciated.

EDIT: I also noticed the up taunt having a sheathing sound effect instead of the laugh a couple times.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

I just found out about this today, and this is the best mod to come to PM! I honestly hope the final release of sword Ganon will be so balanced that the PMBR will introduce this in a future update! I have a few suggestions for this, after playing around with it for a little bit.

Since PM Ganon should be left the same and he is more of an outright killer than a comboer, I think sword Ganon should have some more combo-able moves, while still having heavy moves with high knockback and damage. I liked how 2.1's Dtilt and Utilt had combo potential, even though it was a bit too much. From what I saw, it seemed like they had little to no knockback growth. I think increasing the knockback as percentages increase would be a perfect workaround, instead of slowing the moves down. This way, the moves will be able to combo until a certain percent, so people can't just combo all the way to 200%. I like that you gave most of the combo-able moves short range, like the Utilt, Dtilt and Bair. Otherwise sword Ganon would be similar to a heavy Marth.

Ganon's sword attacks should be slower than his fist attacks, because he has to swing such a heavy sword. I think attacks like his Fair, Fsmash and DownB should be slower, but have higher damage and knockback than the fist mode attacks. But please don't slow Dair. I've SD'd enough times by going for meteors like I would with fist Ganon.

I also think the effects of attacks, like the electricity on the Usmash, should only activate on hit. It makes it feel more rewarding to land, at least for moves that are difficult to land. This has a downside too though - I wouldn't be able to see that awesome lightning as often!

Other than these, I agree with GanonFist's opinions about 2.1b, especially the jab. The jab should be a weaker, but faster attack than Ftilt, and maybe fist Ganon's jab could work. The 2 hit chain you guys were talking about a couple pages back could also work, as long as the total damage from it wouldn't be too high. Thanks for putting so much time into this Ashingda, your work is appreciated.

I really like your idea on the U-tilt and D-tilt. Instead of slowing them down just make it so you can't have endless hits with them, especially in D-tilt's case. Great idea!

Although it migh be more rewarding to get the lightning effect after the hit, sword Ganon is I believed designed to represent "true Ganon" so since he is a magic user actually SEEING the magic makes him more unique and further more makes him less of a clone. And just plain badass! So I think seeing the magic effects on possibly EVERY non sword based moves (like F-tit, grabs etc.) would just cement his Wizard/Swordsman style.

 

[Weichafe]

About magic. I think it's better than hitting with the sword don't have magical effects to accentuate the difference between the two styles: magic / brute force. On the other hand, I think the fact that Sword Ganon have new movements (better movements) with his hands maybe looks like a disadvantage for Fist Ganon users.

EDIT:
- The B-Neutral optional attack hitbox feels diferent now (or is just my imagination?).
- The lag in the D-taunt is great.

 

[Shiruzato]

In response to your notification: I've noticed the addition attack accidentally roughly halfway through a round of Classic Mode, actually. A good idea, to be certain, but perhaps it could be altered to possibly chain better from N-Special? Maybe lower its damage output in Sword Mode and speed up the transition to the additional attack, so that it can come in contact with the opponent prior to being damaged by initial blow (as mentioned previously, damage can be altered in this mode so that both attacks can even out to a percentage equal to that of a standard Warlock Punch)? It would change no aesthetics or main functions of the attack while giving it its own unique flair, so that Kirby's copy abilities would require no alteration as a result.

Other than this minor issue that I have, I must say; I am increasingly impressed with your work on the project thus far. Not only do you update at an alarmingly rapid rate (without degrading the mod's quality no less), but the fact that you actually consider a wide amount of player feedback and genuinely take it to heart is testament enough to your dedication (just look at how far "Ganonsword" has come since 1.0)!
You seem genuinely interested in and invested into this project, and for that, I give you my applause.

 

[robosteven]

I prefer the idea of 2.1b more than regular 2.1, so I played that. There are definitely some changes I'd recommend making to that moveset though.

First, would it be possible to speed up the animation of Ganon taking out the sword and admiring it? I'm really glad that it switched over to one taunt, and even more glad that the default when picking Ganon is now swordless. However, that means if I want to start with the sword (or switch in the middle of a match), I have to back the **** away from everything and wait a while when taking out the sword. IMO he should simply take it out and assume position pretty quickly, specifically the same amount of time it takes for Samus to switch weapon types.

Second, his jab should have MUCH less endlag. Holy **** that **** takes forever. As a jab, it really shouldn't be nearly as punishable.

I think his dair should be faster too. Not too fast though. I'd say about the same speed as his fair, and maybe extend the swipe a little more downward.

Personally, I don't think his bair should've been changed. I know you were trying to go for the idea of making him faster, and I like the thought, but it just makes things weird.

That being said, you ****ing rock dude. Keep up the spectacular work.

 

[SkyMcfly]

this whole sword mode thing is really cool, but how do i install it?
do i need a hacked wii or can i just put it on my project m sd card

 

[robosteven]

this whole sword mode thing is really cool, but how do i install it?
do i need a hacked wii or can i just put it on my project m sd card

Naw, no hacked wii required. Just go into the projectm folder, go to the fighter folder, go to Ganon, and replace the files "FitGanon.pac" and "FitGanonMotionEtc.pac" with the respective files in the sword Ganon folder.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Alright, after testing this one out it feels MUCH better but I still think a few twicks are in order.

1: F-air is good but now feels weak do to it being such a "heavy" looking swing so I suggest a buff in KO power possibly no sour spot also.
2: U-Air was already pretty slow I suggest only slowing down by 5%
3: D-Air is too slow, the end lag makes me SD when trying to meteor an opponent. Maybe just 5% slower would suffice.
4: Jab is too slow, F-tilt is a better Jab now. I suggest bring back PM jab or just keep your original Jab speed.
5: U-tilt and D-tilt end lag feels good but they start up too slow so their combo potential is almost completely gone, I suggest keep the end lag but make it start up faster. If thats not possible maybe just slow them down by 15% instead of 30% cause 30% is too slow.
6: dash attack was already slow I suggest only slowing down by 5%, 15% is too much.
7: Up B shouldn't have gotten slower, in 3.0 PM gave it a speed buff for a reason I suggest revert it back.
8: Down B is a little too slow, I think 30% start-up slow, hit slow 10%, and ending slow 40% would be a good balance.

All the smash attacks feel phenomenal! But what I lined up above should be addressed. And the moves that stay as slow as they are should get KO and damage buffs, like an extra 10% KO and damage potential on F-air would balance out the slowness, Same with F-smash etc.

Another job well done my friend!

EDIT: also I believe you kept N-Air the same speed which is perfect.
Also since we're going in the "Spell Sword" direction could you give electricity to his F-tilt? (Like B-air). And if you can't change the grab animations could you add electricity affect to the hits? Just so he feels like his using magic and to de-clonify him further.

Ok, after further testing against more human opponents my prior suggestions above still hold. But even further i would like to reiterate that; Jab, Dash Attack, U-Air and D-Air all are way too slow. And although you didn't mention anything regarding N-Air something feels different. Also I think keeping D-tilt and U-tilt fast and just having them not spam-able and so they increasingly send opponents further away would be ideal.

F-air feels good like I said but i think a tiny increase in start up speed is due, and obviously more power behind it.

Also all the smashes feel good BUT they all start too slow, F-smash is ok i think only a small increase in start up speed would suffice but Up-smash and down-smash just start up too slow and are really hard to hit with. and they all are quite punishable if Ganon misses so i think a little balancing is due.

Also F-air and the smashes are very much less rewarding due to them being slower but not powerful enough compared to how slow they are. In my honest opinion; the more a move is slowed down the more KO power it should get. That way it balances out.

Other wise Sword Ganon feels like a slow moving tank! Feels nice. Cant wait for the next update.

 

[The Father]

Ok, after further testing against more human opponents my prior suggestions above still hold. But even further i would like to reiterate that; Jab, Dash Attack, U-Air and D-Air all are way too slow. And although you didn't mention anything regarding N-Air something feels different. Also I think keeping D-tilt and U-tilt fast and just having them not spam-able and so they increasingly send opponents further away would be ideal.

F-air feels good like I said but i think a tiny increase in start up speed is due, and obviously more power behind it.

Also all the smashes feel good BUT they all start too slow, F-smash is ok i think only a small increase in start up speed would suffice but Up-smash and down-smash just start up too slow and are really hard to hit with. and they all are quite punishable if Ganon misses so i think a little balancing is due.

Also F-air and the smashes are very much less rewarding due to them being slower but not powerful enough compared to how slow they are. In my honest opinion; the more a move is slowed down the more KO power it should get. That way it balances out.

Other wise Sword Ganon feels like a slow moving tank! Feels nice. Cant wait for the next update.

I also did some more testing, and I 100% agree with jab, Uair, Fair and Dair needing a speed boost (from 2.1b). Especially jab and Dair. Dash attack is slow, but it seems kind of like DDD's, since it's tanky and has armor. The knockback behind it is great, so I don't think it needs a drastic speed boost, just a small one. An increase in the duration of the armor would also do.

I'm loving the Nair. It can be a finisher after a small chain, but seems to have a fair amount of knockback for its speed and range. The start up time of Down B seems good, but the end lag seems to last for a bit too long. The travel speed of the aerial version is also a bit slow, IMO.

Even though it was slowed down, Dtilt can still lead to many combos. I consistently landed aerial side B - Dtilt - Utilt//Ftilt/Fsmash against CPU's, however that might just be because of their DI. I strongly suggest reverting the speed, but giving it knockback growth. To compensate for the nerf, adding a meteor hitbox to it (like Ike's Dtilt) against airborne opponents would be cool

 

[_Ganondorf_]

I also did some more testing, and I 100% agree with jab, Uair, Fair and Dair needing a speed boost (from 2.1b). Especially jab and Dair. Dash attack is slow, but it seems kind of like DDD's, since it's tanky and has armor. The knockback behind it is great, so I don't think it needs a drastic speed boost, just a small one. An increase in the duration of the armor would also do.

I'm loving the Nair. It can be a finisher after a small chain, but seems to have a fair amount of knockback for its speed and range. The start up time of Down B seems good, but the end lag seems to last for a bit too long. The travel speed of the aerial version is also a bit slow, IMO.

Even though it was slowed down, Dtilt can still lead to many combos. I consistently landed aerial side B - Dtilt - Utilt//Ftilt/Fsmash against CPU's, however that might just be because of their DI. I strongly suggest reverting the speed, but giving it knockback growth. To compensate for the nerf, adding a meteor hitbox to it (like Ike's Dtilt) against airborne opponents would be cool

Believe me man playing against actual opponents becomes a chore after a while... I'm all for the moves being punishable if missed but all the moves I highlighted above are just too easy to read by smart opponents (the CPU's are just bad at DI and are plain stupid) my main problem is the start up speed on the moves I mentioned, the slowness if the actual attack and the end lag feels good just the start up is messed up (except the end lag on Jab, D-air and dash attack those are just painfully slow at the end). I think a good balance can be met to make Sword Ganon slow in the right places while "quick" (I'm using the term loosely) when needs it.

 

[Ganonpork]

I have tried several Ganon move set hacks and this one is by far the most polished and impressive. My only critique is that the dash attack looks a bit clunky, otherwise it's really fun to use.

 

[Ashingda]

Change Log:
U-Taunt: Sound effect fixed
D-Taunt: Can now interupt with block

Jab: Add sound, Damage reduced and is now Fake projectile
D-Tilt: Add sound, increased knockback
U-Tilt: Add sound, Damage reduced and is now Fake Projectile

F-Air: Startup speed increased, Improved sourspots
U-Air: Startup speed increased
D-Air: Startup and hit speed increased

F-Smash: Startup already slowed, Start of Hit speed increased
D-Smash: Startup speed decreased, Start of hit speed increased
U-Smash: Startup speed decreased, Start of hit speed increased, Trajectory changed to Up, Damage increased

Down-B: Startup speed increased, Lag decreased
Neutral-B: Sword hit only hits front now.


Note: I made too many changes to keep track of, some changes may have be left out of the log. Also seeing the direction this is currently heading I'm not sure we can call this a straight "Sword Mode" anymore.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7nMXPxv4bI
Download: http://www.mediafire.com/download/fm6tvp5u573igvf/Ganondorf v2.2.zip

I have tried several Ganon move set hacks and this one is by far the most polished and impressive. My only critique is that the dash attack looks a bit clunky, otherwise it's really fun to use.

Thank you, that is because this mod has everybody pitching in to help out and could not have gotten this far with em.

4: Jab is too slow, F-tilt is a better Jab now. I suggest bring back PM jab or just keep your original Jab speed.

Well I was going to bring back the PM jab but decided to do some experiments first...

I've been wanting to try out this hack for a while now, but I can't due to a Ganondorf SFX mod that I have. It needs a pac file to function, but the SFX won't work correctly if I overwrite the pac file for the SFX hack with the pac file for this. Does anyone know how to merge the 2.1 Ganondorf Sword moveset with this SFX hack for Ganondorf? (It says Demo 2.6b, but it has been updated for Demo 3.0.)

Sorry I missed this, to get this working you'll have to modify the PSA yourself and insert the sound hacks manually.

 

[Friesnchip]

I've given the new version a quick play-through and here are my first initial thoughts:

F-Smash has oddly high kill potential, even at low percentages. Maybe it should have a bit less knock-back?​

​

I'm still not in agreement with the amount of power the N-Special -> Attack has; I would like a bit less knock-back and more end lag. If anything, definitely more end lag. You're getting two powerful attacks for the price of one, there should be some risk for using a second attack that is equally strong with MORE range.​

​

Other than that I'm still getting used to the new 'projectile' moves, so I can't comment on them yet, the concept is interesting.

 

[l3thargy]

I've given the new version a quick play-through and here are my first initial thoughts:

F-Smash has oddly high kill potential, even at low percentages. Maybe it should have a bit less knock-back?​

​

I'm still not in agreement with the amount of power the N-Special -> Attack has; I would like a bit less knock-back and more end lag. If anything, definitely more end lag. You're getting two powerful attacks for the price of one, there should be some risk for using a second attack that is equally strong with MORE range.​

​

Other than that I'm still getting used to the new 'projectile' moves, so I can't comment on them yet, the concept is interesting.

I agree with a lot of things here, but I think N-special's only changes would be having more endlag between the punch and the slash along with more endlag after the slash and also giving it the ability to be turned the other direction after the punch/backhand

also I'd like to point out giving Ganon the fake projectiles was a genius move and I'm loving it

on a side note Friesnchip I keep mistakenly reading your name as Friendship lol

 

[l3thargy]

I agree with a lot of things here, but I think N-special's only changes would be having more endlag between the punch and the slash along with more endlag after the slash and also giving it the ability to be turned the other direction after the punch/backhand

also I'd like to point out giving Ganon the fake projectiles was a genius move and I'm loving it

on a side note Friesnchip I keep mistakenly reading your name as Friendship lol

EDIT: Is Ganon suppose to start out in sword mode now?

EDIT: dammit that was a fail lol
anyways I wanted to add that for the fake projectiles and what not that you should use darkness effects instead of the lightning but that's my opinion

 

[_Ganondorf_]

@ Ashingda- I'm gonna test 2.2 in a bit, but man your amazing! That fake projectile stuff looks absolutely awesome! I'll give my "report" soon.

Also I agree that "Sword mode" might not the the best description now. Now it more like "True Ganondorf mode"!

 

[Weichafe]

Note: I made too many changes to keep track of, some changes may have be left out of the log. Also seeing the direction this is currently heading I'm not sure we can call this a straight "Sword Mode" anymore.

The truth is that I don't feel too comfortable with the direction being taken by the project, I think it is moving away too much of the canonical, and now Sword Ganon is something like a super powerful Ganon who also has a sword. I liked more the idea of ​​differentiating between magic/brute force and staying closer to that seen in Twilight .

Well, having said that, I think the most important thing is to respect the vision of the community (especially the developer vision) and what it wants. Following that line I think it's maybe a good idea to add some effects to the sword (maybe a glowing effect) to show the idea that this is not any ordinary sword... is the magic sword of the Ancient Sages and will deliver to the bearer some special powers. I think also, considering the state of the project, that Ganon should lose the ability to grab items while in the sword mode (maybe it is also time to consider the idea of ​​losing the sword as Squirtle 's sunglases or another disadvantage) .

About the gameplay:

- I like the idea of slow the startups of smash moves, adds a feeling of more power to the movements.
- The hitbox of the neutral-B sword slash is perfect now. I totally agree with Friesnchip end lag suggestion.
- The Fake Projectiles... I'm not convinced it's a good idea.

Well... I hope not to sound disrespectful or ungrateful. I am most grateful of all the hard work put into this project, again thank you very much!

Merry Christmas to all!

 

[_Ganondorf_]

@ Weichafe- I see your concern about distinguishing between the two modes like "Sword vs Fist" but I look at it this way, PM Ganon is a clone, no other way around it. This new Ganon's moveset is inspired by canonical Ganon. So I just look at the two modes as Melee Ganon vs Canon Ganon. And also making a balance between the two. One is slower with more range the other faster with less range. Also I think this way the mod author can please both ends of the spectrum, those that like Ganon as he is and those that want him to be unique.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

@ Ashingda- As I mentioned many times already, I'm not a fan of Ganon's grab range. (Mini rant->) For a character of such slow speed to receive a grab range of a fast character (C. falcon) is just atrocious in my eyes. Also Ganon who does not fair well with shield pressure he just plainly needs a longer grab.

This is not a compliant or anything, and I know your limited by the PSA files, but it's so frustrating to constantly miss out of shield grabs to opponents that are right in you face.

So I have a "creative" idea, how about you don't change the grab animation but just make it a telekinetic grab? Similar to Mewtwo's? Obviously this should have a little more endlag at the end akin to Mew2 and the range of it can be judged by a little spark shine, again just like Mew2. Unless that also takes up an animation slot I think it could be interesting to try. (Disclaimer: I still haven't played 2.2)

Anyway I don't think I congratulated you about become a memeber the PMBR, you have a lot of talent and creativity and I cannot wait to see what you will do with the PMBR in the future. Whether it involves Ganon or not, I'm sure it would be amazing.

 

[Ashingda]

GanonFist

Thanks, I'm also trying to wrap this project up but there are still so many improvements that can be made. Very soon now I'm going to be in a place I won't have much free time and may not have any internet connections, it'll only last a few months then I'll be back home.

Grabs: The grab animation consist of multiple Subactions to take place. Changing one animation may require all of them to change to match it and there are at lease 8 of them. Currently his normal grabs could be considered his weakness.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Version 2.2 is just amazing and the fake projectile on his jab is great!

Can't wait for the final release.

 

[The Father]

Although I usually am not a fan of fake projectiles, these look amazing! Cant wait to try them out!

This is actually drifting away from the idea of "Ganondorf with sword", but I like it. The moves compliment each other well, but I think a new name will be needed for this mod. Or the "magic" and fist attacks could be changed to sword equivalents. I could see Bair become a quick hit with the hilt, retaining the same hit box and knockback. The only other moves that would probably need to be changed are the tilts.

Even though I want this to be finished, it seems kind of sad. I don't want PM to be finished any time soon either! I guess I constantly want to see more changes changes/improvements. Good luck on finishing this project, and thank you once again for all your work, Ashingda.

 

[LeeYawshee]

Name suggestion for it is something simple like Ganondorf 2 or King Ganondorf.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

@ Ashingda- ok I understand the grab situation now. It will still annoy me to no end, but I'll learn to deal with it.

2.2 is amazingn every thing feels fluid and "just right", all the moves retain their slowness but now are much more viable.

The tilts are awesome and the new "fake projectile" is really great. It was a genius idea on your part.

I think this version of Ganon is pretty much perfect, only a few cosmetic tweaks and it would be good for a "final" version.

Sad to hear your "going away" for awhile I hope you have a good time where ever your going. And thanks for all the awesome work.

 

[Granfalloon]

Just saw the 2.2 video and I wanted to say it looks fantastic. My only "complaints" would be the D-air and D-Tilt, though they're animated great I just think they don't fit for Ganon. But I don't have any better ideas for them so I guess not a big deal.

My only suggestion is an aesthetic one: In place of two grunts for the Warlock Punch/neutral B add Ganon's laugh when the sword slash is either activated or hit-confirms.

Also, I miss the sword-running animation from TP. Why was that taken out again?

 

[Ashingda]

Just saw the 2.2 video and I wanted to say it looks fantastic. My only "complaints" would be the D-air and D-Tilt, though they're animated great I just think they don't fit for Ganon. But I don't have any better ideas for them so I guess not a big deal.

D-Tilt was taken from Ocarina of Time, he doesn't do that jump because he's already grounded. D-Air was just added because I had that animation left over 'laughs'.
If you come up with something good lets hear it, but you better do it fast because this project is closing soon.

Also, I miss the sword-running animation from TP. Why was that taken out again?

Too many reasons. It's not competitive enough for what it was used for, we do not have enough subactions, do not have enough file space for animations, it will require other adjustments to other subactions/animations. Overall just dont have the resource for it.

Name suggestion for it is something simple like Ganondorf 2 or King Ganondorf.

Well I keep seeing this "Spell Sword" around that might be a good new title, "Ganondorf Spell/Sword Mode" or something. Anyone come up with something more fitting?

F-Smash has oddly high kill potential, even at low percentages. Maybe it should have a bit less knock-back?

We might have to adjust either the base knockback or trajectory. The way Knockback and Trajectory works is, if your trajectory is more upwards then you need more knockback to balance against the gravity. If it's more to the side or downwards then less knockback is required to be effective.

Well... I hope not to sound disrespectful or ungrateful. I am most grateful of all the hard work put into this project, again thank you very much!

Please feel free to voice any concerns, I am grateful that you even respond at all. The main goal of this project is to make something that is enjoyable to play (at least for the majority), many of the changes are suggested by the community and yourself is included. The new Fake projectiles are "experimental" and this is the response I was expecting, either for it, against it or suggest improvements, etc.

Everyone here is so polite and I appreciate it, I had at first expected to see a more different sort of responses like that of the rest of the internet.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

After those few months of you leaving,do you know what you might be working on then?