Ganondorf is BETTER, not worse, than he was in Melee

[Sliq]

Ganon is worse. End topic.

 

[pockyD]

haha this thread is awesome

 

[Raiderwarlord99]

Well if Ganon is so bad y do u guys still play him?

OK Ganons slow, he's a big target, alot of his moves have lag, he lost his air game, he lacks combo potiental, he recover is ****, he runs like he has something stuck up his *** & he still doesn't use his sword.

I'm just saying if he sucks so much just play somebody else instead of whining about his weaknesses. It's really depressing looking at all these pointless, stupid, b****y @** comments from noobs & even some of the high level players talking about how bad the character is.

 

[WastingPenguins]

^^Thank you.

Cuz most of the people dissing Ganon don't even main or secondary him.

Buncha Boswer and Mario and Sonic mains.

ROFLCAKEZ.

I'll tell ya what Wasting Penguins, my Ganon'd **** your Bowser in a heartbeat.

BELIEVE IT![/naruto]

Ha I'm actually a DK main who seconds Ganon. I don't even play Bowser anymore, I'm just lazy and don't change my avatar. I've never met a Ganon who could take my DK but if you wanna give it a shot shoot me a PM or hit me up on AIM: wastingpenguins.

And no one said that Ganon is horrible or unplayable or bad now, but if you really think that he's better than he was in Melee then you've never played a good Melee Ganon. If you guys have ever heard of Joe Bushman, he's a good friend of mine and was one of the best Melee Ganons in the country (top 3 at least) so trust me, I know what I'm talking about. Melee Ganon is scary **** my friends.

 

[ph00tbag]

Ganon is worse. End topic.

[/thread] plzkthxbye

 

[Kiyosuki]

Mmmm...I don't use the G-Dorf much but while he's certainly got some tricks up his sleeve in this, some of the videos of Melee Ganondorfs I've seen are pretty insane...

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

1) Ganondorf is heaver, harder to send flying.
2) His heaviness gives his attacks much more knockback.
3) His side-b has combo potential and suicide potential
4) His wizards foot is faster, has more range, and more knockback.
5) His dash attack is much better.
6) His Warlock Punch is faster, has more knockback, and can be reversed.

What are you smokin?

 

[zaborg2400]

stop comparing, they are 2 totally different games!! you cant compare! GET OVER IT!

well, ganon did better against other players in melee then he does in brawl now, so ya, u can compare if and only if u look at it correctly.

 

[I Like Link]

His side-b gives so many possibilities.

 

[fear17]

I love ganondorf in brawl hes very slow now but his power is so much to understand i especially love his side b that scares poeple from the ledges cuz you can just suicide with them

 

[Hypa-Link]

His side B alone makes him >> Melee Ganondorf.

 

[Ace55]

His side B alone makes him >> Melee Ganondorf.

As an old Ganon main I have to take offense to all the people that make these kinds of arguments. Side B is a great move, making up for Ganon's less than impressive grab range. It sort of gives him a ranged grab which is much harder to punish than any other extended grab out there. Thing is, as soon as someone stops shielding and starts really evading it (sidestep, jump/walk away/whatever) it's only really usefull for punishing. What Ganon really needs is a way to approach his opponent somewhat safely. If you want to get at someone outside your tilt range you're best bets are: Down B, side B or running attack. All of which are easily avoidable and somewhat punishable.

Granted, Melee Ganon had problems approaching too. But at least he could SHFFL and wavedash, plus we didn't have a whole cast of potent projectile users. This, plus the fact that his airgame doesn't seem anywhere as good as it used to be (I just can't get used to it) makes Ganon sort of a doomed character. He's not rock bottom, but I'm afraid he's pretty close. He just get's destroyed by so many characters out there.

 

[Hypa-Link]

I find his air game just as good as Melee's. One of the few characters I find nearly unchanged in that department.

I feel his thunderstomp is more deadly now(I think in melee people could still recover sometimes if they had the right jump timing)

And it' only cuz of the projectile weaknesses. But then again, so was Melee Ganon. They should scratch his warlock punch for a power ball attack, OR pimp him like snake and let him shoot a projectile from an a smash.

 

[Ace55]

It's not that his air game has really changed at all (making him still somewhat of a Falcon clone) but the feel has changed IMO. Fair was one of my favorite moves, now I'm afraid to use it because it's almost impossible to autocancel. I just think they took the wrong path with Ganon. They wanted to declone him, but basically keep him the same. What happened was they created something that doesn't feel like the old Ganon, but doesn't feel like a new fresh character either.

If they would have given him a projectile (like he had in the games) he could at least try to force people to approach him, instead of running after them like some grumpy old man. If they would have given him a sword (they sort of did but apparantly Ganon doesn't wanna use it) he would have had a decent range advantage to work with. Ike is probably one of the reasons that didn't happen.

So they made the slow close range powerhouse that we know as brawl Ganon. A fusion of Melee moves, one (good) real new special, the (pretty awesome) up smash and down/side tilts and a running speed that would make him the king of the old peoples house.

Well, at least he still LOOKS dangerous.

 

[Sliq]

The fact that you can approach with Ganon in Melee makes him better in Melee than Brawl. Seriously, Ganon's fair in Melee was HUGE, and the fact that you could auto cancel and l cancel it makes it infinitely better than in Brawl. Furthermore, his recovery with the down b double jump refresh made him impossible to kill without gimping. Ganon's recovery in Brawl is only better because he auto sweet spots, whereas in Melee, he couldn't sweet spot.

Seriously, if you didn't play Melee competitively, you can't argue effectively as you are missing a lot of information necassary to debate this.

 

[the7eleven]

Ganon was better in melee face it lol.
Now ganon is just all power and no speed. The best thing he can do is go in a 4 person match and try to sneak up on someone unsuspecting lol.
Funny that I won a lot of matches online with ganon due to the lag heheheh.

 

[AbsoluteZero255]

You are definitely right.

(Ganon is my third)

 

[Sora Master2.0]

Some of these make for reasonable arguments, but something likes this makes no sense"He's worse. End" Atleast state why that is. I do agree he's been nerfed, but he's still getting more crap then he deserves. I guess making giving him a sword would make this all stop. Maybe...

 

[Metà]

Ganondorf players have won large tournaments in Melee, and many place very high. Ganondorf had a LOT more good match-ups in Brawl. It's not about comparing individual moves and techniques, it's about how good he is relative to the other characters. Ganondorf is around the bottom end of the Brawl character roster, and there's no way around it.

As such, I can say with a high degree of certainty, that Ganondorf will never place very highly in large tournaments, ever. Not now, and not years from now. There will be good Ganondorfs, that will come around and surprise everyone, taking victories from highly skilled players. I don't doubt that, it's not impossible; it happened in Melee on occasion. However, he just can't measure up to the rest of the characters. Accept it and move on, quit deluding yourself.

 

[seshun]

Ganon wasnt better in melee. With the use and exploitation of L-canceling was ganon better. Take out L-canceling out of melee and ganon is ****...simple as that. And dont say a character sucks...you just suck with them and don't have the skill to play with them exceptionally. i mean sure, there are characters that have better setups and are easier to use, but hey you gotta learn to work with what you have. Plus most people are pansies and like to use those characters with easy setups and easy to use mechanics. work harder people. I play with a character because i like them whether they are at the bottom, or if you lose a lot. I never get discouraged.

 

[Magus420]

Ganon wasnt better in melee. With the use and exploitation of L-canceling was ganon better. Take out L-canceling out of melee and ganon is ****...simple as that.

Not true. His autocancels on B/U/N-air were all extremely good and could hit right up until landing (F/D-Air pretty nice too). The huge autocancel windows on these make the ones on his Brawl aerials look like a joke. SHFF autocancelled B/U-Air were actually generally better to use in most cases than l-cancelled airs against faster characters as they are much harder to punish with DDing.

 

[seshun]

i also meant to add completley different game engine as well is what to make characters different not the characters themselves, but you do bring valid points. But you cant say that if L-canceling was thrown in Brawl ganon wouldnt become better because he would.

 

[Pierce7d]

GDorf can also no longer L-Cancel which REALLY hurts him

Why did the thread not end at this post?

 

[Hypa-Link]

Ganon wasnt better in melee. With the use and exploitation of L-canceling was ganon better. Take out L-canceling out of melee and ganon is ****...simple as that. And dont say a character sucks...you just suck with them and don't have the skill to play with them exceptionally. i mean sure, there are characters that have better setups and are easier to use, but hey you gotta learn to work with what you have. Plus most people are pansies and like to use those characters with easy setups and easy to use mechanics. work harder people. I play with a character because i like them whether they are at the bottom, or if you lose a lot. I never get discouraged.

Yea I find it crazy when people leave Link or Ganon cuz they don't feel like adapting or working.

I loved Link since the 64 Smash even though I had no ideas what tiers even were at the time, and that Link was at the bottom of it.

^^And like he just said take l-cancelling from brawl and 95% of the Melee arguments leave.

 

[TimmWith2Ms]

Ok, when Magus entered this thread, and posed his extensive knowledge on 'dorf, why didn't it end? And honestly, we're not doing a fair comparison in the first place. No one said the brawl and melee engines worked the same, nor do they need to. We're comparing, as given, ATs and all, melee and brawl Ganon. In this discussion, we have melee dorf, who with the use of SHFFL, DD, wavedashing and superior tech chasing ability, could string together 0-death combos on the fly. His approach game was far better in melee because of SHFFLed fairs and short hopped bairs; his air game was far better because of longer hitstun which led to combos; his recovery and survivability was FAR better thanks to Wizard's Foot recovery.

The only thing you could presumably argue for Brawl Ganon is his ground game with a stronger, yet slower Neutral A and f-tilt (which you cannot tilt up or down diagonally anymore), stronger smashes, and side B. Astronger yet slower ground game and Flame Choke alone, however great it is (and it is great), does not make up for the 3 worsened aspects of Ganon's game. And if you've ever played melee Ganon and now play brawl Ganon, you feel far less in control of the match.

That's the end to my 2 cents.

 

[Ace55]

Why, why do they hate Ganon so much?

 

[Metà]

Yea I find it crazy when people leave Link or Ganon cuz they don't feel like adapting or working.

Or maybe they just don't like the character anymore? Not everyone goes by favouritism, they play who they enjoy playing. I loved playing Ganondorf in Melee, because he had a lot of quick, powerful moves, and the wavelanding/L-cancelling gave him a sort of flow. Without that flow and consistency, he's just another stereotypical fighting game slow powerful character; I really don't enjoy that very much.

I loved Link since the 64 Smash even though I had no ideas what tiers even were at the time, and that Link was at the bottom of it.

Exactly. We play who we enjoy. For a lot of people Ganon just isn't as much fun anymore. The people who do play him don't play him because he's awesome, but because they just like using the character.

^^And like he just said take l-cancelling from brawl and 95% of the Melee arguments leave.

What about wave-landing, less start-up lag, better jab, MUCH longer recovery, and performed better against the rest of the cast in general? That's the main thing: it doesn't matter how much they changed him, it matters how good all the other characters do against him. If you go by how many actual good match-ups he has now, he's gone from mid tier (ie: usable in tournaments) to bottom tier (ie: won't win a major tournament ever).

 

[BBQ°]

Don't worry, in the next game they will give him a sword and he will be doing ken combos along side Marth xD

 

[Magus420]

Don't worry, in the next game they will give him a sword and he will be doing ken combos along side Marth xD

That won't be necessary, since they are also going to make his sword shoot double warlock punch lasers.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

That won't be necessary, since they are also going to make his sword shoot double warlock punch lasers.

Lagless SHDDWPL for the win (because FTW would've been too many acronyms).

 

[:034:]

Magus, your sigs are crazy. Stop it. I'm wasting precious hours because I'm doing nothing but looking at those things.

 

[Scavenger XIII]

Why is this still going?

 

[AgentJGV]

Ganondorf is better in Brawl in the sense of his proportion to the characters in brawl. If you faced off melee ganon vs BRawl ganon: on melee turf Brawl would win, in Brawl turf Brawl would still win.

 

[Magus420]

Ganondorf is better in Brawl in the sense of his proportion to the characters in brawl. If you faced off melee ganon vs BRawl ganon: on melee turf Brawl would win, in Brawl turf Brawl would still win.

...I'll have whatever ^^ that guy is having.

 

[Griffard]

Ganondorf is better in Brawl in the sense of his proportion to the characters in brawl. If you faced off melee ganon vs BRawl ganon: on melee turf Brawl would win, in Brawl turf Brawl would still win.

This is almost exactly what I would have said. Obviously Melee Ganon performed better with L cancelling and overall better aerials, but the Brawl Ganon has better chances against the other Brawl characters than the Melee Ganon had chances against the Melee cast.

 

[pockyD]

This has to be the most elaborate joke on smashboards

 

[Linguini]

1) Ganondorf is heaver, harder to send flying.
2) His heaviness gives his attacks much more knockback.
3) His side-b has combo potential and suicide potential
4) His wizards foot is faster, has more range, and more knockback.
5) His dash attack is much better.
6) His Warlock Punch is faster, has more knockback, and can be reversed.

LOL

gj payce.

 

[Metà]

This is almost exactly what I would have said. Obviously Melee Ganon performed better with L cancelling and overall better aerials, but the Brawl Ganon has better chances against the other Brawl characters than the Melee Ganon had chances against the Melee cast.

Either you're joking, or you don't know competitive smash very well. Ganondorf players could actually win tournaments, and he had decent match-ups against high tiers.

What good match-ups does Ganondorf have in Brawl?

 

[Griffard]

Either you're joking, or you don't know competitive smash very well. Ganondorf players could actually win tournaments, and he had decent match-ups against high tiers.

What good match-ups does Ganondorf have in Brawl?

I think that more towards the middle or end of Brawl's competitive cycle he will have been more successful than in Melee. I played lots of melee competitively and I've been playing loads of brawl, and I really do think that he'll be better. He does great with ALL of the light characters if you play intelligently. He is a great killer and he has a good recovery, his only flaw is his slowness, which can be overcome if the person using him is smart and knows how to speed up his moves.

 

[Siyro]

It all depends on your playing style. I played Gannondorf in Melee and became decent. Then when Brawl came out i played as Gannondorf and initially considered him to be worse, among other characters such as my Samus. I easily adapted to the New Ganondorf and i am now at the same skill level if not better then my Melee Gannondorf. Sadly the same did not apply to my Main Samus.