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Ganondorf can pwn? Yes, yes he can.

Revven

FrankerZ
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
7,550
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Ganondorf isn't bad in Brawl, in fact, I'd go as far as to say that he's much better than C. Falcon right now (due to his priority in his forward B and the combos you can do with it). Gdorf got a decent buff and the stomp... oh Lord it hasn't let anyone down. Don't be afraid to use it out and off the stage!

MAN (Wolf) VS. 0WN1N (Ganondorf)

Yep, my video of pure ownage with Ganondorf. Maybe not throughout the entire video but, just those first thirty seconds shows how much Ganondorf can KO someone so quickly... >=D

He's not my main by the way, I just use him. I just think he's better than Falcon, you don't have to agree. :p

Just watch the video... and laugh your *** off.
 

DeviL-LCF

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
14
Location
Canada, Ontario, Ottawa
A few things I have to say about the video. Wolf wasn't even using his good moves (Dsmash, NAir+Shine, BAir etc). Its awesome that you use Ganondorf and all (I'm a big fan of him) but against a well seasoned Wolf.. he just doesn't stand a chance.

I've played Ganondorf and still am every now and then but so many things about him lack its not even funny. Hes almost strictly a ground character now, and only in certain situations should you fight with him in the air. His lag is so terrible its unbearable. The only good things he has for him is his Side B, ftilt and dtilt with the help of down B and Neutral Standing A and Dashing Attack. The rest.. is purely situational. I think hes been nerfed BIG time since Melee. Just his Neutral Standing A has lag... enough to get punished if whiffed anyways. His A is suppose to be his "Oh **** need space" move but if rolled or dodged.. you're left open for an easy A combo or tilt (maybe even a smash). Most of his B Moves have been weakened (UP+B 11%? wtf... this is Ganondorf... he needs more power). His Side B which is now awesome but does only 9-10% damage instead of his earlier 16%. His down B does like 10% on ground and 14% in air? WAY too weak. Lets not even talk about his Neutral B, I think they made it even slower then Melee (atleast its stronger 33-35%).

Too many of his moves have lag.. and I don't mean to hate on a character (I think hes the coolest character in the roster) but he really isn't that great. Has a lot of flaws and you constantly have to play 70% defense and 30% offense (if that much) which just makes you a sitting duck until the opponent makes mistakes you can actually act upon.

I'm not saying hes all bad, hes got some good things, I just dont think hes near as strong as he SHOULD of been. He has interesting moves and powerful knockback with some of them but all the lag and his slow movements just makes him a big HIT ME sign after most of his worthy attacks. He's fun to play as but I don't think hes better then Captain Falcon. Falcon lost a lot of his mojo but hes not slowed down or stuck on the ground like Ganondorf is. I'm a little sad to what they did with Ganondorf, I love the "new" moves but he has too much lag to be used offensively and against good opponents you won't be able to use that DAir like that.

This is my opinion on the character, I'm sure many will disagree but I don't see him as being much of a threat with whats out on him as of now, maybe his lagless DAir, but even that is easy to see coming and dodge.
 

robman1

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
36
funny how you say "wtf... this is Ganondorf... he needs more power"

I yell that evertime i land something and get disappointed by a returning opponent or look back down at the percentages and i feel like im owning but it looks like im losing : /

enjoyed the vid though, some nice stomp spikes
 

Metzger

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
110
A few things I have to say about the video. Wolf wasn't even using his good moves (Dsmash, NAir+Shine, BAir etc). Its awesome that you use Ganondorf and all (I'm a big fan of him) but against a well seasoned Wolf.. he just doesn't stand a chance.

I've played Ganondorf and still am every now and then but so many things about him lack its not even funny. Hes almost strictly a ground character now, and only in certain situations should you fight with him in the air. His lag is so terrible its unbearable. The only good things he has for him is his Side B, ftilt and dtilt with the help of down B and Neutral Standing A and Dashing Attack. The rest.. is purely situational. I think hes been nerfed BIG time since Melee. Just his Neutral Standing A has lag... enough to get punished if whiffed anyways. His A is suppose to be his "Oh **** need space" move but if rolled or dodged.. you're left open for an easy A combo or tilt (maybe even a smash). Most of his B Moves have been weakened (UP+B 11%? wtf... this is Ganondorf... he needs more power). His Side B which is now awesome but does only 9-10% damage instead of his earlier 16%. His down B does like 10% on ground and 14% in air? WAY too weak. Lets not even talk about his Neutral B, I think they made it even slower then Melee (atleast its stronger 33-35%).

Too many of his moves have lag.. and I don't mean to hate on a character (I think hes the coolest character in the roster) but he really isn't that great. Has a lot of flaws and you constantly have to play 70% defense and 30% offense (if that much) which just makes you a sitting duck until the opponent makes mistakes you can actually act upon.

I'm not saying hes all bad, hes got some good things, I just dont think hes near as strong as he SHOULD of been. He has interesting moves and powerful knockback with some of them but all the lag and his slow movements just makes him a big HIT ME sign after most of his worthy attacks. He's fun to play as but I don't think hes better then Captain Falcon. Falcon lost a lot of his mojo but hes not slowed down or stuck on the ground like Ganondorf is. I'm a little sad to what they did with Ganondorf, I love the "new" moves but he has too much lag to be used offensively and against good opponents you won't be able to use that DAir like that.

This is my opinion on the character, I'm sure many will disagree but I don't see him as being much of a threat with whats out on him as of now, maybe his lagless DAir, but even that is easy to see coming and dodge.
I really don't get where some of this stuff is coming from.

First off... N-Air to Shine? Seriously? C'mon.

Besides that, a lot of this stuff is just... wrong. You seriously think anyone is punishing Neutral-A after ROLLING? Maybe if the guy handling Ganondorf is a penguin and can only slap one half of his controller at any given time. I don't even think Lucario's roll is that fast. Even spot dodging Neutral-A eats up so many frames that punishing it is not possible for a lot of the cast. Now PS'ing Neutral-A will give people the opportunity to punish, but then PS'ing a lot (if not most) of the crap in this game is punishable.

I agree the lag on some of his aerials is lame. Unfortunately that goes for about 60% of the cast now. Unlike some of them, however, Ganondorf can still SH most of his aerials and land lagless; the real nerf here was the lag to his F-Air that we can no longer L-Cancel. Everything else is still pretty ridiculous and if you don't think he dominates a very large portion of the cast aerially I think you've got to be blind.

His B-Move changes are a mixed bag I guess but overall came out ahead compared to a lot of returning cast. Side-B makes a pretty nice tech chase that has both SAF and is unblockable, as well as leads to a guaranteed jab against some characters if you so choose. Up-B damage nerf is iffy but the move now has an additional hitbox at the culmination; not a fair trade IMO but at least a compromise and not the backhand C. Falcon saw on the same move. Down-B was nerfed in damage but retains similar knockback and cut down both start-up and ending frames. Warlock Punch is pretty close to unchanged (I think it charges a few frames faster now) except you can now pivot in the first frames of the move to change direction. No complaints, other than it's still hard as hell to actually use against a smart player (nothing new).

I really don't think Ganondorf came out the other side that bad. B-Air is still fast as hell and lands clean, U-Air still rocks, D-Air can still be SH lagless (and you can still double D-Air out of a full jump), his F-Tilt picked up a crap ton of knockback, we shaved some frames off Down-B. It's a *crime* what happened to his F-Air in terms of lag but it still has brutal priority, knockback and does a heap of damage. Neutral-A is slower but reaches farther and has "NERF" priority compared to pretty much anyone else's Neutral-A or even F-Tilts.

I seriously doubt you'll see Ganondorf slip lower than low/mid of mid-tier. He certainly has bigger issues that someone like Wolf, who can't approach for ****. Maybe Ganondorf players will get lucky and they'll just approach with N-Air into Shine or something.
 

McGriddle

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
4
Amen brother! so many people i play online right now are saying how i should play another character... when we are just starting to discover all the techs of ganondorf. I have a lot of things to master still ... ledgehop which seriously-- what the crap?> i need a video whoever can do it :p

Also, strats against olimar and ness/lucas.., also diddy (**** those bananas!!)
 

DeviL-LCF

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
14
Location
Canada, Ontario, Ottawa
I made a mistake that you can roll the Neutral Standing A and all that but still, its nowhere half as good even though it has more reach and knockback. In Melee you could NOT punish that move if whiffed which made it so versatile. Its still awesome in Brawl just doesn't retain any of its past glory. It can kill... okay.. so can all his other moves at lower percentages. Besides by the time this move can kill (depending on stage, lets go with FD) ~150%+, you'd actually want to kill him before that much percentage.

His FAir was his game and now he lost his most powerful move in terms of spammability. His BAir comes out fast but still not as strong or good on the knockback. His B moves although quicker lost its strong percentage attributes and although they are faster you'll always be using a move to HIT as much as possible so missing isn't something you can do too much maybe except for Side B and Dash Attack.

His NAir... doesn't combo into the second hit or very rarely (its hard to get the position right) and doesn't knockback anymore. Comes out fast though with very little lag but without knockback its not very useful.

His DSmash is good cause it sucks in the opponent for the second hit... but it can be air dodged.. so scratch this move out because after execution he takes a lot of time to recover so if people can air dodge out of it, its a dangerous move.

Ganondorf just moves so **** slow, I mean I thought he was slow in Melee but ****, Brawl hit another height of slowness for him.

His Side B, honestly is the only thing, imo, that has been improved to the level of a great move. A lot of options with this but again, you can't center a character around one B special move. Damage was lowered but mind games, that Ganoncide option (will scare a lot of people in trying to edgehog especially if they have low percentage and less stocks). This is his most versatile move and his best combo setter along with Dash Attack.

His FSmash has less "backing away" distance which makes it harder to use, its got good range but not as much as Melee Ganon. Also it kills great but killed faster in Melee.

His Ftilt and Dtilt have been slowed down but better knockback, they are great moves as well but a little on the slow side, whiffing one of these usually get you punished if the opponent sees it coming.

Lots of things on Ganondorf that has been nerfed for the worst. I just don't see how he can even be remotely anything higher then low tier, if he gets to low-mid tier thats only because of his Side B and possible mindgames along with it.

I don't mean to hate on him cause honestly hes ****ing awesome when it comes to style and looks, but his game is sloppy, you have to be MUCH too defensive to be effective and messing up costs you a chunk of %. His DAir can be good as well when lagless but thats a move that can be seen from a mile away and dodged, rolled out of quickly because the move itself is still slow (slower then melee). Maybe I'm just not meant to play with him because my style on Melee was always agressive and now that he goes from Air Superiority *** kicker to Defensive calculating fighter is too much of a difference for me.

I hope stuff comes out on him that improves his game cause I had high hopes for Ganondorf in brawl, but as of right now I'm dissapointed by his moves. I know a lot of characters have been nerfed but Ganondorf took a big hit if you ask me. I'll still play him and hope to improve greatly with him but competitive playing we won't be seeing him much.

I'll keep my eye out for Ganondorf players though, no one as of yet is pro so there are still many things that can be figured out, I'll try learning stuff on my side as well but I doubt he will be a very good character in the end. He is superior to a lot of those ****ty characters epsecially when it comes to aerials but he is TOO easily punishable now and that alone is a big turn-off for all past Ganondorf players. Atleast.. he looks cool.
 

RedSteel

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
23
Location
Pennsylvania!
I never understood the misconception that Ganondorf was horrid, or just not usable in tournaments. I am not known at this point, but I will be changing that this year. Now, back on topic. I used him in Melee quite often, and in Brawl, it seems he got amazingly better. I think your video just proved that he can stand against some faster characters, and demolish like the beast should. That combo you created was impressive, and I didn't use that so that is unique and I might try that out! ;)

Anyway, I think you should keep using him, your very good with him for this early on, so if you continue using him like that, you could probably be quite good with him.
 

Metzger

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
110
I don't think he's a "good" character in the grand scheme of things. I just don't think he's as bad as some of the other runners for low tier. At worst he might slip into the top of low tier but that's a pretty meaningless designation.
 

pricelessyostess

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
9
Ganondorf is terrible. Sure, he has power, but hes the slowest character. and he jumps like half a foot in the air then thuds on the ground.
 

RAAR

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
97
Location
IL
I don't know why they nefed charicters who weren't even that good before. In Meele I made up gannos slow speed with his reach and tilts that had wonderfull knockback. Now he only has one forward tilt that doesn't come out fast at all, he cant triple jump from his down b and overall hes a lot slower. They completly slowed down his A attack witch used to be a fast jab that could send light weights flying. IDK it hard for me to go back to my old charicters. It breaks my heart i can't do the things that made me love them in the last game.
 

DeviL-LCF

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
14
Location
Canada, Ontario, Ottawa
I'm still gonna play him. I've been training against CPU's as Ganondorf and a few Human Players (not too many I know as of yet and online is a little laggy to really test anything out to its fullest). All I can say is CPU's are a ****in *****, you can abuse Side B versus them but I try not to as Human players wont let that happen. I've brought him into training and trained his lagless DAir, its cool but its easy to anticipate, I mean all in all, that be the single reason why Ganondorf would SH in the first place since everything else he uses in the air lags like hell.

I don't know he is nerfed and much too sloppy, its not as much as him being slow, but his turning speed, his overall weight feels MUCH too heavy even for a heavyweight. DK, Bowser, KD all pack a harder punch and can move at a respectable speed. I'll keep trying to see what I can do.
 

err

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
293
Location
athens, ga
i think his game will see slight improvement once everyone has fallen into an understanding of how all the other characters are supposed to be played.

so far, my Ganondorf has about 6-7 usable moves (sideB, Uair, Dair, F-tilt, D-tilt, U-smash, {jab}) and maybe three offensive approaches (sideB, dair, bair). I do much better by playing defensively and making my opponent approach ( Pit ***** gdorf, but we all should have seen that comi-AHH!! -- who shot me?? )

so im hoping that gdorf sees a slight boost in performance once we know what options our opponents have. but even then im still not picturing him doing even close to well against any character who can projectile spam

[edit] as an aside, i like how everyone, and i mean everyone, is playing Ike. Really everyone should be playing on random right now just to learn the physics engine's quirks, but i went to a tournament and witnessed mike G. rock a little bit with Ike... but seriously can you imagine people actually doing well with Ike/Gdorf in 3-4 years? by then the good characters will be great and we will have *hopefully* found a better way to control our characters on the ground/while dashing. I bet melee was like this early on with Zelda probably being seen as a formidable opponent
 

RedSteel

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
23
Location
Pennsylvania!
Ganondorf is by no means the best character in the game, but his lack of speed does not make him terrible. I have faced some really good players before in Melee, and demolished them with Ganondorf for the simple fact is they underestimate. Ganondorf is not a speed character, so if you try to use him like one, then your not going to be good with him. Now if you use his advantages such as power, you don't need speed. I do not think he is top tier by any means, but he is most certainly not low.
 

WastingPenguins

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
827
Location
Ohio
Ganon is horrible in this game. It's weird when people get defensive about it because it's just true and quite obvious. That doesn't mean you shouldn't use him-- I accept how bad he is and I have plenty of fun playing Dorf. But really. Relative to the best characters in Brawl, he's definitely worse than he was in Melee.
 

mista_mista

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
Messages
239
Location
Upper Michigan
Indeed, Ganon does suck now. I'm still maining him but idk how much more I'll be able to take. He just doesn't have any options and everything's so laggy
 

goodoldganon

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
2,946
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
I was an avid Ganondorf supporter throughout all of Melee, and I surprised tons of people by showing Ganondorf wasn't as slow as he was perceived to be and that he was a true force.

But that was then, I'm older and better at the fundamentals of not only fighting games, but the smash series. Ganon was hurt the most by the loss of L-canceling. I'm interested to see how Ganon develops, but as of now I see Ganon as being somewhere in the bottom tier. Porbably 5th or 6th worst character.

It's too bad really, Ganon deserves better, but like Melee they were too busy play testing the newcomers and just put the vets in. Ugh, just thinking about it all makes me mad. :mad:
 

Ganny

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
208
Location
Florida
Not to be rude or anything but you guys realize that ganon wasn't made for 1vs1's, he was made for brawls.

B Down plows through multiple opponents
B right grabs an opponent, thus works against shields (other person shielding vs someone else's attack). Plus it has super armor for the grabbing animation so no one can interfere
B up grabs opponents and shoots them downwards and away as to knock them under the stage in off-stage combat
His B attack works pretty much when there is a distraction *cough*two players fighting eachother *cough*

He is one of the heaviest characters so self damage means less to him. He stands up in the middle of the fray and is hard to KO
He is strong so opponents damage means less to him because he can KO them at less damage that they can KO him

Slow and bulky characters excel at 4 player frays period.

You can't test ganon on 1 vs 1's
 

mooseproduce

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
538
Location
East Canada
That's just lame - you can only use your character if there's other people distracting each other? Having a strong character who's good in big fights is cool, but in a game where each character's moveset is this huge, there's no reason not to include moves which are useful in different situations.

Useful to the point where you aren't doomed to failure from the start, barring luck or an inexperienced opponent.
 

smokeybravo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
27
Location
California
GAN GAN STOMP FOR LIFE!!!!

Oh wow, the stomp never gets old. My friends and I laughed till we cried having Ganon matches in Melee. Can you pm me your friend code?
 

Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
5,938
Location
Colver, PA
Names please.


-Kye
His location says he's from Pennsylvania so the correct answer is no one.

There are very few to no good smashers at all in this state, thank god i moved to florida for awhile and go soo much better. Just to return and find PA still blows
 

Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
5,938
Location
Colver, PA
I have faced some really good players before in Melee, and demolished them with Ganondorf for the simple fact is they underestimate. Ganondorf is not a speed character, so if you try to use him like one, then your not going to be good with him.
*COUGH*

Double post.


Umm if you try to use Ganondorf like a fast character you will not be good with him? You obviously have no heard of me or Linguini then. We both played him to his fastest abilitys and did amazing over the years.

Edit: for all the other lovely tards watch this if you think ganons slow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0DIE-HlghY
 

Calixto

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
169
Location
Santa Fe, New Mexico
I am unfortunately inclined to agree; without some of the speed and l-cancels from Melee, Ganondorf seems weaker now. Unless some new technique is found, or some revolutionary change in how people play as him comes around, I doubt he will be very high tier.
 

duo962

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
9
Location
NJ
A friend of mine mentioned the other day...it's like most of the smaller characters were adjusted so that they don't die till much higher percentages. Ganon still seems to die around the same percent as he used to or lower, which ends up being the same as everyone else. Add that to the fact that a bunch of his moves have lost priority over stupid things like Pit or Metaknight's side b, and...yeah.
 

Revven

FrankerZ
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
7,550
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
I have some more videos of my Ganondorf owning and I shall post them below. There's only two others right now... and by owning, I mean what I do in the videos not by the stocks.

0WN1N (Ganondorf) VS. Red (Pit)

This one just happened today, hope you like the spikes! :p

Durry (Wolf) VS. 0WN1N (Ganondorf)

This one isn't as recent, but, it's got some nice stuff in it. And, is it me, or is my Ganondorf just owning Wolf's left and right? :laugh:
 

DeviL-LCF

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
14
Location
Canada, Ontario, Ottawa
Without L-Cancelling and Wavedashing Ganondorf sucks. In Melee atleast you could catch up in speed with his wavedash and L-Cancel, now you are left lagging after every move. Sure his lagless DAir is good but the fact that you cant use his DAir while coming down from above makes it useless. Hus best move FAir lags TOO much and theres no way to cut the lag like his DAir. In all honesty though, this game has been nerfed so much only a few non-interesting characters remain good, fast and deadly. Personally, Brawl doesn't live up to Melee in gaming depth so far. Even without Wavedashing and all that Melee played atleast twice as fast as this. Without L-Cancelling at the least, Brawl will never be as fun imo because of the increased lag in 80% of the character rosters. With this, when people find characters that are lagless,thats all we will see because others wont be able to stand up to their air game.
 

Linguini

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
4,698
Location
Weston, Florida
Ganon's pretty mediocre in this game, nothing compared to the manly mother****er he was in melee.
His run feels awkward, his moves dont feel right, and the only thing hes got going for him is the side b, and you know a character blows if he only has one famazing option.
IMO ganon is a waste of time, play ike or something instead.
or play ganon in melee and have the time of your lie.
pick or choose. im out.
 

SynikaL

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
1,973
Location
Boynton Beach, FL
Side B is nothing special either as it leads to nothing guaranteed (outside certain characters). So he has a legitimate Wake metagame, big whoop. I told ya'll Brawl Ganon was garbs :p.


-Syn
 

Radical Dreamer

Smash Ace
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
827
Ganondorf is one of the worst characters in this game easily. Probably won't even be tournament viable.

Renth have you ever played MrGanondorf?
 

Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
5,938
Location
Colver, PA
Ganondorf is one of the worst characters in this game easily. Probably won't even be tournament viable.

Renth have you ever played MrGanondorf?
If Mr.Ganondorf is a player hell no.

Ganondorf himself yes, I use him often. He still sucks though
 
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