Gamestop Tournament Tips and Info!

[Yuna]

start at post #629

"Start at"? I'll reply to post 629. If you want to me to reply to any more, specify which.

 

[fr0st2k]

do whatever floats your boat. i dont really need you to reply to it, it wasnt like i was writing it for you.

 

[SN3S]

Oh, all this talkk of scrubs has rattled my memory and caused me to remember something from long ago. It's from Sirlin.net, and has a great article on scrubs.

http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm

Also, could someone tell me what the code for adding a quote is?

EDIT: Also, there are many other articles on this site that should be helpful for this gamestop tournament.

I mentioned that book a while ago It's an awesome read either way, and it will help improve your game, if not your attitude.

 

[Yuna]

I dont like writing in absolutes, its boring, so i like making analogies. Im on this site for entertainment.

How sorry we are that we're not entertaining you. How awful we must feel.

The old crowd of smashers, the original founders of this site, grew up with melee and paved a way to the present day competitive scene. Through toil and strife, they figured out what works best for the current metagame for melee and 64.

Yes, and?

These years of effort creates a sort of satisfaction, which can sometimes be seen as a sense of superiority when viewed by outsiders.

What sense of satisfaction? What sense of superiority? What have we ever done to make people think we feel superior to them?

These outsiders, who are labeled casuals and scrubs, did not have the same experience growing up with this boards competitive scene.

A Casual is not the same thing as a Scrub. There is nothing wrong with being a Casual Gamer. There's a lot of things wrong with being a Scrub. Read up on Scrubs. They're vile and should be educated and weaned off of their Scrubbiness. If all else fails, eradication by banishment from all tournaments work.

No one (who isn't an ******* and thus hated by everyone else) has every made or tried to make Casual gamers feel bad or excluded them.

Now that brawl is out, and melee is gone, The old crowd believes that they can skip ahead and go straight into a similiar comp. scene using the experiences they got from melee. The new players, want to start from the beginning.

More like our experiences from competitive fighting games. We know how to make competitive fighting game tournaments balanced, fair and as skill-based as possible. We're use these things to work out the new rules for Brawl.

When you get people who "seem" to act superior (not saying you really think you are), people get upset, and thus, fighting ensues.

We don't "seem" anything. Idiots who refuse to listen to reason who think they know better than everyone else think we do because their arguments are idiotic, yet they refuse to see reason and instead resort to labeling anyone who argues against them as "Elitist" and "Exclusive" instead of seeing their arguments as the failures that they are.

Im with you mookie, as i stated in my previous post. Yes, we can avoid many things that are obvious. Once again ... i stated that in my original post. But I still believe, if you want to run a respectable site, you shouldn't just Yell to the majority of people , "WE KNOW THIS BETTER, WEVE DONE THIS, BELIEVE US" because, whether or not its actually true, it doesnt come across well to casuals.

MookieRah and I also specify why "our" way is better. If some idiots still fail to understand it, I see no reason why I should waste my breath arguing it further with them. I spend 6 pages arguing against a complete idiot in a thread about Final Smashes. He had not played the game, he had barely seen any videos (apparently), yet he claimed there must be ways around Marth's Final Smash and yaddi yaddi yadda despite me putting forth countless valid arguments for why there aren't any.

Brawl is a new game. This comes up in almost every debate topic. A lot of "competitives" were hoping for melee 2, and even now that brawl is out, they are still looking for it within brawl.

Just because it's a new game does not mean the rules for fair, skill-based and balanced competitive play have changed!

Why cant we just make peace with everyone and leave melee, and all our experiences with it, OUT OF BRAWL. Doing so would ensure the most unique and fun, and the least imitative form of competitive brawling.

See above.

When you try and infuse Brawl with your melee experiences, you are detracting from Brawls own uniqueness and potential. I think that is the major gripe that casuals are saying.

See above.

On the flip side, What casuals arent picking up is that there are certianly some experiences that melee can teach us with brawl, such as random items. This didnt change from melee to brawl, so its the same.

Then what the Hell are you whining about?! What is it we're apparently so rigid about in concerns to Brawl? What is it that's so different from Brawl? You yourself acknowledge the Randomness that is inherent with Items. As such, we cannot have Items on in Competitive Play.

What else have we possibly stated that is based on our experiences in Melee that you could possibly want to change?

Now ... to my own humble opinion. Anything that isnt identicle to melee should not be voiced out. Just play the game for a few months, have fun with it, enjoy it. Like i said earlier, our competitive natures will naturally figure things out.

...

The problem is, everyone is trying so hard, and as fast as they possibly can, to turn brawl into the same experience they had with melee, that like i said, it will never reach its full potential.

Did this entire post have any purpose whatsoever?!

Items are Random. Final Smashes are Items. Final Smashes are also overpowered, unbalanced and certain of them break the game.

As such, we cannot have Items and Final Smashes on in Competitive Play. You yourself acknowledge the Randomness. So what is the point of this ranting post?

So what if we're still playing Brawl kinda the same way we played Melee? That's our problem. The only real problem you could possibly have would be the rules we're proposing for Competitive Brawl Play. But you yourself acknowledge that Items are Random.

Or are you suggesting we turn Items on despite their inherent randomness?

 

[gooseman]

Since most people missed it, I'll repost this AGAIN.

There are 4 main types of players among the general fighting game populus. It breaks down as:

Casual: A person who plays from time to time, doesn't go to tournaments. Can be decent to bad, skill wise.
Hardcore: Someone who plays a lot and has great skill. Doesn't go to tournaments.
Scrub: Not very good tournament goer. Usually shows up because he feels he has something to prove.
Competitive: A tournament goer of great skill. Can place in tournies consistently.

People don't like being called casual because it implies that they don't play the game very often, which in turn implies that that their skill is meager. This can, in fact, piss people off when you condecend like many here do.

That should clear some things up.

 

[ThePUNK]

OK I don't want to feed this debate because this thread is not for the argument of Casuals vs. Competitive players but it seems like it is inevitable so here is my take on it.

A Competitive player has 1 goal above everything else and that is to win, period.

A Casual player has goals, above that 1 goal to win.

Now does this mean that competitive players will win EVERY game when they play NO. But because the competitive player is playing and has focused on the 1 goal above everything else; he has a better chance at winning.

Now, with that being said this thread is geared toward the competitive players, although causals are welcome because I know they want to win to.

 

[Snick]

How sorry we are that we're not entertaining you. How awful we must feel.


Yes, and?


What sense of satisfaction? What sense of superiority? What have we ever done to make people think we feel superior to them?


A Casual is not the same thing as a Scrub. There is nothing wrong with being a Casual Gamer. There's a lot of things wrong with being a Scrub. Read up on Scrubs. They're vile and should be educated and weaned off of their Scrubbiness. If all else fails, eradication by banishment from all tournaments work.

No one (who isn't an ******* and thus hated by everyone else) has every made or tried to make Casual gamers feel bad or excluded them.


More like our experiences from competitive fighting games. We know how to make competitive fighting game tournaments balanced, fair and as skill-based as possible. We're use these things to work out the new rules for Brawl.


We don't "seem" anything. Idiots who refuse to listen to reason who think they know better than everyone else think we do because their arguments are idiotic, yet they refuse to see reason and instead resort to labeling anyone who argues against them as "Elitist" and "Exclusive" instead of seeing their arguments as the failures that they are.


MookieRah and I also specify why "our" way is better. If some idiots still fail to understand it, I see no reason why I should waste my breath arguing it further with them. I spend 6 pages arguing against a complete idiot in a thread about Final Smashes. He had not played the game, he had barely seen any videos (apparently), yet he claimed there must be ways around Marth's Final Smash and yaddi yaddi yadda despite me putting forth countless valid arguments for why there aren't any.


Just because it's a new game does not mean the rules for fair, skill-based and balanced competitive play have changed!


See above.


See above.


Then what the Hell are you whining about?! What is it we're apparently so rigid about in concerns to Brawl? What is it that's so different from Brawl? You yourself acknowledge the Randomness that is inherent with Items. As such, we cannot have Items on in Competitive Play.

What else have we possibly stated that is based on our experiences in Melee that you could possibly want to change?


...


Did this entire post have any purpose whatsoever?!

Items are Random. Final Smashes are Items. Final Smashes are also overpowered, unbalanced and certain of them break the game.

As such, we cannot have Items and Final Smashes on in Competitive Play. You yourself acknowledge the Randomness. So what is the point of this ranting post?

So what if we're still playing Brawl kinda the same way we played Melee? That's our problem. The only real problem you could possibly have would be the rules we're proposing for Competitive Brawl Play. But you yourself acknowledge that Items are Random.

Or are you suggesting we turn Items on despite their inherent randomness?

Please tell us more ways items in smash have slighted you.

 

[Yuna]

Since most people missed it, I'll repost this AGAIN.

There are 4 main types of players among the general fighting game populus. It breaks down as:

Casual: A person who plays from time to time, doesn't go to tournaments. Can be decent to bad, skill wise.
Hardcore: Someone who plays a lot and has great skill. Doesn't go to tournaments.
Scrub: Not very good tournament goer. Usually shows up because he feels he has something to prove.
Competitive: A tournament goer of great skill. Can place in tournies consistently.

Apparently, you completely missed my reply to that post.

Those are not the correct definitions of Hardcore Gamers and Scrubs. I've already had to explain what the Hell a Scrub is at least 5 times in this thread already.

 

[MookieRah]

[ONTOPIC]
Someone brought up a while back that it would be wise to consider using a faster character to abuse items more. I agree that this itself is a decent strategy, especially if on top of that you did a good job observing and punishing mistakes in addition to abusing items. This kind of strategy is frustrating to just about anyone, casuals and competitives alike, and what frustrates your opponent typically makes them play more aggressively and sloppier.

This person also talked about using Meta cause people say he is really easy to pick up. Well... it's not so much about just how easy it is to pick up, it's also about how well they can KO within one minute. Meta has a pretty hard time KOing, especially if you are new to him. Items could make this better, but personally I would be a bit hesitant on relying *too* much on items. Meta DOES have a great Final Smash though, so I dunno. One should be ok with Meta, but he isn't one of my top picks for round 1.

So basically, there are a lot of good options. I really hope people would rethink their use of characters such as Mario, Sheik, ZSS, and Pit, because of how hard it is to KO. In all honesty a good player would still be able to do well with them, but still, 1 minute with D3 and his chain grab would do a lot more with a lot less thought and ability than struggling to get KO's with Sheik.

[OFFTOPIC]
@gooseman
I think about 5 people responded to that. Yuna even recently touched on it with this:

I have never seen the term "Casual" being used as an insult by a respected Competitive player who's not an *******. It's like some idiot started a rumor or urban legend and now "us" Competitives have to rewrite the Smash Jargon?

No, it works, it still works, only a small number of people don't really know the meaning of "Casual" and assume it's an insult. I refuse to spend time and effort on fixing something that doesn't need fixing.

The competitive community is just like any other community. We have our own jargon and things that makes sense to us. The problem is that people tend to not realize that our definition of "casual player" is not the same definition that people associate it with outside of this community. The thing is though... given the context of how we use the word casual that this should generally be inferred. When I was new to the scene I had no trouble understanding that, and many others didn't as well. The problem only came to fruition when a large amount of younger and more immature people (as well as 4channers and people who just wanted to stir up stuff out of spite a lulz) created this massive assumption that a "casual" smasher is an insulting term and that competitives are elitist that think they are superior to them.

Please tell us more ways items in smash have slighted you.

He, myself, and many others already have. There are threads about it. This one is already convoluted enough as is to turn this into an items debate.

 

[Kirby M.D.]

My last few posts.

Please Yuna, calm down and get back on topic. You're a Back Roomer, show some bloody restraint.

On topic, what would be a good mindset to have for unexpected characters? The Ike/D3/Lucas trifecta is indicative of one style of player, and unskilled players can be easily beaten with the information given. What about a good player who uses an uncommon character?

 

[Snick]

[ONTOPIC]
Someone brought up a while back that it would be wise to consider using a faster character to abuse items more. I agree that this itself is a decent strategy, especially if on top of that you did a good job observing and punishing mistakes in addition to abusing items. This kind of strategy is frustrating to just about anyone, casuals and competitives alike, and what frustrates your opponent typically makes them play more aggressively and sloppier.

This person also talked about using Meta cause people say he is really easy to pick up. Well... it's not so much about just how easy it is to pick up, it's also about how well they can KO within one minute. Meta has a pretty hard time KOing, especially if you are new to him. Items could make this better, but personally I would be a bit hesitant on relying *too* much on items. Meta DOES have a great Final Smash though, so I dunno. One should be ok with Meta, but he isn't one of my top picks for round 1.

So basically, there are a lot of good options. I really hope people would rethink their use of characters such as Mario, Sheik, ZSS, and Pit, because of how hard it is to KO. In all honesty a good player would still be able to do well with them, but still, 1 minute with D3 and his chain grab would do a lot more with a lot less thought and ability than struggling to get KO's with Sheik.

[OFFTOPIC]
@gooseman
I think about 5 people responded to that. Yuna even recently touched on it with this:

The competitive community is just like any other community. We have our own jargon and things that makes sense to us. The problem is that people tend to not realize that our definition of "casual player" is not the same definition that people associate it with outside of this community. The thing is though... given the context of how we use the word casual that this should generally be inferred. When I was new to the scene I had no trouble understanding that, and many others didn't as well. The problem only came to fruition when a large amount of younger and more immature people (as well as 4channers and people who just wanted to stir up stuff out of spite a lulz) created this massive assumption that a "casual" smasher is an insulting term and that competitives are elitist that think they are superior to them.

He, myself, and many others already have. There are threads about it. This one is already convoluted enough as is to turn this into an items debate.

I hope you're joking, but I find your post offensive to both the site & the community.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

I hope you're joking, but I find your post offensive to both the site & the community.

Says the obvious troll account.

 

[munkus beaver]

[ONTOPIC]
Someone brought up a while back that it would be wise to consider using a faster character to abuse items more. I agree that this itself is a decent strategy, especially if on top of that you did a good job observing and punishing mistakes in addition to abusing items. This kind of strategy is frustrating to just about anyone, casuals and competitives alike, and what frustrates your opponent typically makes them play more aggressively and sloppier.

This person also talked about using Meta cause people say he is really easy to pick up. Well... it's not so much about just how easy it is to pick up, it's also about how well they can KO within one minute. Meta has a pretty hard time KOing, especially if you are new to him. Items could make this better, but personally I would be a bit hesitant on relying *too* much on items. Meta DOES have a great Final Smash though, so I dunno. One should be ok with Meta, but he isn't one of my top picks for round 1.

It's not just getting a KO in a minute, it's also about getting a KO in SUPER SUDDEN DEATH MODE!

Metaknight is one of the best for a newbie in that situation. His dash grab is superb, and I'm fairly certain his Up-Throw KOs at 300%.

Having played the game, DDD was really awkward to pick up. If this is your first time ever playing the game, then DDD will feel extremely foreign to you in the first couple of rounds. If the other guy is playing someone who plays like they do in melee (kirby, zelda), then you are at a disadvantage really fast. The bottom line is that Metaknight is easy to pick up and stupid easy to get a kill with in Super Sudden Death.

If you're just looking for pure KO power in under a minute, I'd go with Zelda. Ike is a double-edged sword because he'll be punished if it comes down to Super Sudden Death.

 

[Snick]

Says the obvious troll account.

Forwarded to administrators for inappropriateness.

 

[Yuna]

Please Yuna, calm down and get back on topic. You're a Back Roomer, show some bloody restraint.

On topic, what would be a good mindset to have for unexpected characters? The Ike/D3/Lucas trifecta is indicative of one style of player, and unskilled players can be easily beaten with the information given. What about a good player who uses an uncommon character?

I've tried to reason with fr0st for the past, what, 8 pages? + in other threads.

Anyway, deal with them like with anyone else. Read up on them. Watch videos of them in acting, learn how they play and how to counteract them.

I hope you're joking, but I find your post offensive to both the site & the community.

Who are you and why should we not assume you're a troll?

 

[Snick]

I've tried to reason with fr0st for the past, what, 8 pages? + in other threads.

Anyway, deal with them like with anyone else. Read up on them. Watch videos of them in acting, learn how they play and how to counteract them.


Who are you and why should we not assume you're a troll?

Now it's just spam.

This has also been forwarded.

 

[Dustlord]

I feel this topic is going to be closed soon, because it has gone WAY off topic. It also seems to be devolving into an argument between a few people. I'm not saying they're trying to fight, but that's what it's becoming. What started as a request for tips at the GS tournament is now an argument on the definition of what casual and competitive is, and flaming of users for giving help.

So what if someone sounds pretentious/uppity/elitist? The points still stand. 47 pages and only a fraction of posts are actually useful/on topic. More and more, it also seems to be the same information over and over.

More and more, I want to use D3, but besides Chain-grabbing/Waddle-Dee spam, what can I do with him? How would I tech out of chain grabs/other moves? If D3 is slower, how can I make up for that? If I go against Meta-Knight/Pit, or other fast characters, would he be at a severe disadvantage? What would you suggest against these fast chars? If anyone could help with these questions, I would appreciate it.

 

[munkus beaver]

I feel this topic is going to be closed soon, because it has gone WAY off topic. It also seems to be devolving into an argument between a few people. I'm not saying they're trying to fight, but that's what it's becoming. What started as a request for tips at the GS tournament is now an argument on the definition of what casual and competitive is, and flaming of users for giving help.

So what if someone sounds pretentious/uppity/elitist? The points still stand. 47 pages and only a fraction of posts are actually useful/on topic. More and more, it also seems to be the same information over and over.

More and more, I want to use D3, but besides Chain-grabbing/Waddle-Dee spam, what can I do with him? How would I tech out of chain grabs/other moves? If D3 is slower, how can I make up for that? If I go against Meta-Knight/Pit, or other fast characters, would he be at a severe disadvantage? What would you suggest against these fast chars? If anyone could help with these questions, I would appreciate it.

If you use DDD, only use his tilts, back-air, and down-air to start (along with the chain grab). Don't even think about forward smashing. Yes, you'll be at a disadvantage if you've never played the game and you try DDD against another guy who has never played the game and is using MK, unless you've been watching a lot of DDD videos and getting prepped.

Again, with the matches being 1 minute long, expecting two newbies to get a KO is pretty absurd. As long as they are 1 minute long, play a stalling game with a fast character to get accustomed to how brawl feels until Super Sudden Death mode comes, then use a throw that will KO.

 

[MookieRah]

Metaknight is one of the best for a newbie in that situation. His dash grab is superb, and I'm fairly certain his Up-Throw KOs at 300%.

That is a solid point actually. They had rules for ties and such, and they might actually go by rules later on, but at this tournament there will be A LOT of Sudden Deaths due to the people running it.

That said, I wouldn't want to rely on Sudden Deaths even if I'm up against a casual and am using a good character for it. One lucky hit would mean being eliminated.

As for D3 being awkward, I'll take your word for it. I still don't see how this is the case, cause you could really abuse his ftilt and his grab range is insane, but I haven't played the game and you have so you would have more insight on how a character "feels" than I do. I will point out that I haven't heard this from anyone else, but then again it's not like someone would be like "Oh D3 is great, but he is awkward for your first few matches."

If you are the type that could pick up any character and use them well the D3 would more than likely work very very well for this. If you are the type to stick to a handful of characters and not deviate then you should probably pick up a character you are more familiar with. Out of the starting cast, I would suggest using Lucas for this, because he plays somewhat similar to Ness and as I've stated many times his upsmash is a huge hitbox of death.

If I go against Meta-Knight/Pit, or other fast characters, would he be at a severe disadvantage? What would you suggest against these fast chars? If anyone could help with these questions, I would appreciate it.

I would suggest looking of vids. Specifically the channel that Chillen posts his matches on youtube. I think the guys account is like Na7hen or something. Anyways, there is a good D3 player that plays against Chillen (very good melee smasher) and Chillen is always using fast characters (namely Squirtle and ZSS). Also, Azen's Ike videos shows off how slow characters can get around swift ones as well. So for the moment, Slow characters are viable in Brawl, hopefully this won't change, but you never know how things will develope and what stuff we will find down the road.

Yes, you'll be at a disadvantage if you've never played the game and you try DDD against another guy who has never played the game and is using MK, unless you've been watching a lot of DDD videos and getting prepped.

It will really come down to how good your spacing game is. A random casual player with Meta will not be focused on using his maximum range against you, and will probably be just getting up close and doing a lot of quick attacks. If you just use Dedede's tilts you could probably keep him at bay VERY WELL. If you can fend off his attacks at range you will also make him think that he can't get around your wall of attacks, and if you begin to notice a switch to being more defensive that should be a cue to start playing more aggressive and/or start tossing waddle dees.

 

[ThePUNK]

Warning!

I've tried to reason with fr0st for the past, what, 8 pages? + in other threads.

Anyway, deal with them like with anyone else. Read up on them. Watch videos of them in acting, learn how they play and how to counteract them.


Who are you and why should we not assume you're a troll?

OK being you seem like the smarter of the couple spamming my thread. . . how about you be the bigger one out of them and contribute to the thread in some way instead of possibly getting this thread closed?

 

[Yuna]

OK being you seem like the smarter of the couple spamming my thread. . . how about you be the bigger one out of them and contribute to the thread in some way instead of possibly getting this thread closed?

I have. The last time being on this very page of this thread.

 

[CrazyShaman]

If you use DDD, only use his tilts, back-air, and down-air to start (along with the chain grab).

Don't forget B forward. You can projectile spam/block, and maybe get a gordo.

 

[munkus beaver]

That is a solid point actually. They had rules for ties and such, and they might actually go by rules later on, but at this tournament there will be A LOT of Sudden Deaths due to the people running it.

That said, I wouldn't want to rely on Sudden Deaths even if I'm up against a casual and am using a good character for it. One lucky hit would mean being eliminated.

As for D3 being awkward, I'll take your word for it. I still don't see how this is the case, cause you could really abuse his ftilt and his grab range is insane, but I haven't played the game and you have so you would have more insight on how a character "feels" than I do. I will point out that I haven't heard this from anyone else, but then again it's not like someone would be like "Oh D3 is great, but he is awkward for your first few matches."

If you are the type that could pick up any character and use them well the D3 would more than likely work very very well for this. If you are the type to stick to a handful of characters and not deviate then you should probably pick up a character you are more familiar with. Out of the starting cast, I would suggest using Lucas for this, because he plays somewhat similar to Ness and as I've stated many times his upsmash is a huge hitbox of death.

MK is easy to pick up and can perform extremely well outside of Super Sudden Death, but he will dominate in a Super Sudden Death match between newbies.


I didn't play a lot of the characters when I did play brawl, I just chose a couple and went at them for a while, with the exception of DDD. The one match I played with him felt so weird that I was disinclined to try again. The only other time I felt so weird picking up a character was when I played my very first Brawl match. A friend of mine who played in the nintendo tourney in california a few days ago chose D3 in the second round against a trash kirby player and lost because DDD didn't handle like he expected.

Just to keep in mind the source of my info here, I'm a jiggly main in Melee who is minimal in technical ability. So if you love Bowser or whatnot, your mileage may vary.

 

[munkus beaver]

Don't forget B forward. You can projectile spam/block, and maybe get a gordo.

Yeah, I forgot about that, but it isn't as important as remembering "DON'T USE SMASHES"

 

[JTB]

Yeah, its not fair to the OP when we are trying to discuss ways to win the EXTREMELY AWESOME ONE MINUTE MATCHES.

I'm going to be Ike and spam jabs and tilts. It's fairly easy to predict rolls from a new player.

Here's a situation that almost always works against newer players:

When you get your opponent off the stage, you can most likely determine if they are going to recover on the stage or grab the ledge. You want to force them to grab your ledge so you can demonstrate your ability to read people.

Now, your opponent is on the ledge. All you need to do is start walking towards the ledge, then start charging a forward smash away from the ledge. When your opponent sees you coming, they are going to assume that rolling past you is the best way to get back on the stage. However, if you start charging your forward smash while they start rolling, you get a free fsmash in while making it look like you just outwitted your opponent.

Granted, this might not work on everyone. But I've been testing my strategy against players who didn't play Melee competitively (not trying to stereotype) and it works like all the time. Same with just walking towards your opponent on the ground. They will most likely roll past you. If you can see that coming, it should be easy to win a 1 minute match.

And that's why I'm going Ike, despite my mains being D3 and Jiggs. Ike can punish rollers so badly and can kill at low percent.

 

[MookieRah]

Wait, isn't D3's downsmash actually quite fast and somewhat versatile? I think that would be one that is useable, as it seems to behave sorta like a YL downsmash from melee. As far as his other smashes go, one probably shouldn't try using them too much early on. As for me personally, I'm used to Mewtwo's and Bowser's slow smashes, but even out of competitive players there are few that know how to employ them (not because it's so hard, just because the characters themselves are kinda lame so nobody bothers to learn).

I would say if you wanted to go for D3 you should learn to play some Bowser from Melee. If you could learn to incorporate Bowser F-smashes, then you can land some D3 fsmashes easy. Get used to being slow, and also learn to space very well.

 

[JTB]

Oh, I know all about Dedede. I've been playing the game extensively for a while. It's just that it feels easier to punish with Ike, as his fsmash (as slow as D3's fsmash) has intense knockback at low percent. Add in super armor frames for his eruption attack (which I also plan on abusing), he seems like the easiest character to KO with.

Of course, I'm better with Dedede. But my passive playstyle from Melee (Jiggs player here) has carried over to Brawl, so I don't take time into account. My Ike plays more aggressive than my D3, so I rather go with him.

 

[MookieRah]

Now, your opponent is on the ledge. All you need to do is start walking towards the ledge, then start charging a forward smash away from the ledge. When your opponent sees you coming, they are going to assume that rolling past you is the best way to get back on the stage. However, if you start charging your forward smash while they start rolling, you get a free fsmash in while making it look like you just outwitted your opponent.

Or you could start charging his neutral B, and whenever your opponent does his get-up attack you can let it go and use your Super Armor frames that he probably knows nothing about and score a KO cause that move is ridiculously powerful.

Man, Ike is the punish King, he seems soooo fun to play. He's definitely on my top 4 characters to play list.

[EDIT]

Add in super armor frames for his eruption attack (which I also plan on abusing

I just realized you talked about his neutral B XD. That's so awesome that they gave that move Super Armor.

 

[JTB]

Jabs to rack damage and knock off the stage, fsmash or neutral-b to kill.

Gotta love it

 

[Bobhuffman]

My advice would be, don't die xD

 

[WastingPenguins]

All this talk about super armor for Ike and Dedede... why oh why did they leave Ganon out in the cold on that front? How in the world did his nB and uptilt slip through without any armor frames while similar moves from other characters get the benefits?

 

[gooseman]

Something that I needed to bring up earlier, is that if you are going to consider Smash a part of the hardcore fighter community, you should be a bit more aware of the terms used in said community. The terms I listed are the same terms I've used and heard since I was playing Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition in the arcades back in '93.

Calling someone a casual may not sound to you as an insult, but to someone who invests a large amount of time into the game, be it for fun or improvement, its not only condecending but highly insulting. Whether or not you can beat them is beside the point.

I imagine this is also what Frost was trying to get across as well.

 

[MookieRah]

Calling someone a casual may not sound to you as an insult, but to someone who invests a large amount of time into the game, be it for fun or improvement, its not only condecending but highly insulting. Whether or not you can beat them is beside the point.

I see what you are saying, but at the same time if you aren't actively seeking out competition and traveling for tournaments, you aren't in the same realm of "investing time" as well as effort as someone who is. It's far more insulting, as well as it being far more direct than the assumed condescending nature we are accused of, when these home brewed players trivialize tournaments and the competitive scene. We aren't using these terms to be condescending, we are using this term to differentiate those that play in tournaments and those that don't. There are no hidden messages or insinuations.

 

[slikvik]

lol at casual smashers not wanting to be called casual...

 

[gooseman]

Lawl @ scrubby elitists thinking they have something worth proving.

@mookie

What you don't realize, rather, what you REFUSE to realize, is that tournament play is NOT, and WILL NOT EVER make one person better than another. Tournament play is simply a way of proving the skill you already have. Can you pick up new methods and skills this way? Yes, its possible. But without playing with the person you are competing against for an extended amount of time, its not likely.

Another thing you assume is that unless you compete in a tournament environment, you'll never meet another high calibur player. This is another grave mistake on your part. I don't know what get togethers you attend, but every year at Anime Weekend Atlanta we have a Melee tournament and a room devoted to the game that's used for more casual matches before the tourney starts. Many of the absolute best players I've been around don't even compete officially, and last year I beat 2 of the people who went on to place 2nd and 3rd. I dunno where the guy who placed 1st was, I guess he didn't come until later. But I faced off against a group of 3 others who didn't compete either and we had one of the fiercest 2v2 I've ever played in my life.

This is what I'm talking about. You deny coming down on those you deem casual, but in a roundabout way say that only those that choose to play the tourney style are the upper echelon.

All I can say is you're wrong. Your method of thinking is wrong, and as such you are going to miss out on the majority of what Brawl really has to offer. Thinking about it now, I don't hate you so much as I pity you.

 

[ThePUNK]

Lawl @ scrubby elitists thinking they have something worth proving.

@mookie

What you don't realize, rather, what you REFUSE to realize, is that tournament play is NOT, and WILL NOT EVER make one person better than another. Tournament play is simply a way of proving the skill you already have. Can you pick up new methods and skills this way? Yes, its possible. But without playing with the person you are competing against for an extended amount of time, its not likely.

Another thing you assume is that unless you compete in a tournament environment, you'll never meet another high calibur player. This is another grave mistake on your part. I don't know what get togethers you attend, but every year at Anime Weekend Atlanta we have a Melee tournament and a room devoted to the game that's used for more casual matches before the tourney starts. Many of the absolute best players I've been around don't even compete officially, and last year I beat 2 of the people who went on to place 2nd and 3rd. I dunno where the guy who placed 1st was, I guess he didn't come until later. But I faced off against a group of 3 others who didn't compete either and we had one of the fiercest 2v2 I've ever played in my life.

This is what I'm talking about. You deny coming down on those you deem casual, but in a roundabout way say that only those that choose to play the tourney style are the upper echelon.

All I can say is you're wrong. Your method of thinking is wrong, and as such you are going to miss out on the majority of what Brawl really has to offer. Thinking about it now, I don't hate you so much as I pity you.

dude . . . Come on try to contribute to the thread please

 

[Libomasus]

This is what I'm talking about. You deny coming down on those you deem casual, but in a roundabout way say that only those that choose to play the tourney style are the upper echelon.

Since when was anybody giving that impression? A bit too defensive about this I think, because your assuming casual is a term to belittle someone. Your practically looking for faults now.

Being casual means you don't invest time into tourneys and have no tournament experience. It means nothing more.

 

[slikvik]

Lawl @ scrubby elitists thinking they have something worth proving.

@mookie

What you don't realize, rather, what you REFUSE to realize, is that tournament play is NOT, and WILL NOT EVER make one person better than another. Tournament play is simply a way of proving the skill you already have. Can you pick up new methods and skills this way? Yes, its possible. But without playing with the person you are competing against for an extended amount of time, its not likely.

Another thing you assume is that unless you compete in a tournament environment, you'll never meet another high calibur player. This is another grave mistake on your part. I don't know what get togethers you attend, but every year at Anime Weekend Atlanta we have a Melee tournament and a room devoted to the game that's used for more casual matches before the tourney starts. Many of the absolute best players I've been around don't even compete officially, and last year I beat 2 of the people who went on to place 2nd and 3rd. I dunno where the guy who placed 1st was, I guess he didn't come until later. But I faced off against a group of 3 others who didn't compete either and we had one of the fiercest 2v2 I've ever played in my life.

This is what I'm talking about. You deny coming down on those you deem casual, but in a roundabout way say that only those that choose to play the tourney style are the upper echelon.

All I can say is you're wrong. Your method of thinking is wrong, and as such you are going to miss out on the majority of what Brawl really has to offer. Thinking about it now, I don't hate you so much as I pity you.

You are delusional. Go to a national scale tournament see if you get out of your first pool

 

[ThePUNK]

yeah it still kinda seems like the gamestops don't really know what there doing yet, just talked to one in Wisconsin and he said he knows just as much as us and that there still waiting on an email? So whats on the main page may not be true for most gamestops, we will have to wait and see but as soon as i know i will get the info up on there for you guys.

Aside form that I'm convinced now that i will be using Ike for the tourney. Another character that I have been thinking would be absolutely killer in this type of tourney is DK! He seems like one of the faster slow characters to me that would be able to get items quicker than say Ike and DDD but still packs a punch, what do you guys think?

 

[Taekmkm]

Pikachu for familiar controls and busted D-smash. That thing racks up more damage than Melee's Peach D-Smash.