Q&A Gameplay Q&A and General Discussion Thread

[Deleted member 189823]

I'm starting to find the Cloud MU worse for him each time I find one in FG. Not that FG in itself is something reliable to base yourself on, but when I capitalise on his weaknesses, it's pretty tough for him. In terms of strength, the only real advantage I think he has going for him is Limit Breaker. and even then, we juggle him to hell in that mode. We can retaliate against his aerials pretty well by either Shielding or beating out FH D-air with a well-time B-air or U-air. Once, in tournament, I gimped a Cloyd with like 4 B-air in a row, including a Limit Break Up-B. That **** isn't necessary, but we can do this to a few characters, like Ryu, Bayonetta (if she recovers higher, with Side-B), C.Falcon (if he doesn't revover super low).

 

[OceloT42]

I'm starting to find the Cloud MU worse for him each time I find one in FG. Not that FG in itself is something reliable to base yourself on, but when I capitalise on his weaknesses, it's pretty tough for him. In terms of strength, the only real advantage I think he has going for him is Limit Breaker. and even then, we juggle him to hell in that mode. We can retaliate against his aerials pretty well by either Shielding or beating out FH D-air with a well-time B-air or U-air. Once, in tournament, I gimped a Cloyd with like 4 B-air in a row, including a Limit Break Up-B. That **** isn't necessary, but we can do this to a few characters, like Ryu, Bayonetta (if she recovers higher, with Side-B), C.Falcon (if he doesn't revover super low).

It's so easy to punish his recovery without limits. Both DL and angled Fsmash take care of that. It's gotten to the point where my brother switches to Marth if I pick Corrin. And his main is Cloud.

 

[Planty]

corrin the husbando!

Sacrilege. You must never play male Corrin.

peach needlessly get zero 2 deathed from Rosas dthrow

Also what. How are you using DI? This is like the most rare thing in the game that requires a ridiculous amount of rage and bad DI. It's way too rare to act like it's a major issue.

I'll tell everyone on this thread what to do about Rosa Uair. Luma's has higher BKB but Rosa's has higher KBG. Below ~100%, Luma's is stronger. Interestingly, Luma's sends people inwards (like Diddy's D-throw). The idea for this is to have Luma's Uair knock the opponent into Rosa's. If you DI away after Luma Uair's, you'll fly straight upwards and die stupid early if there's rage involved. You have to DI inwards to get hit by Rosa's for the reduced knockback, thus allowing you not to die at 70. Also the optimal way to DI Rosa Uair is away. Enjoy having to DI in then out a split second later.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Sacrilege. You must never play male Corrin.

urgh, please no weeb. Like, in the most ''no offense'' way possible. It got old as soon as Corrin came out, to the point I feel male-Corrin users earn a few respect points from the mere fact they use Bro Corrin.

Thanks for the tip, anyway.

 

[Delzethin]

I've been at a loss lately of how exactly to approach the offstage game. I know bair and tipper DL are Corrin's best edgeguarding tools, but how should I set up situations where they work? What can I even do against opponents who go low, other than attempt the fh dair thing or try to hit them as they're coming up and potentially put myself in a worse situation than them if I miss?

 

[Empyrean]

Based on Lavani 's post that there are 3 possible IP timings (F8, 9 and 10), i spent some time in the lab to see just how much they differ in range, and I whipped up this pic:

All 3 are Instant Pins performed after rolling to the ledge and with 0 forward momentum (using training mode's 1/4x speed). Now the difference in range isn't anything to write home about, BUT with a frame 10 IP, tippering becomes NOTICEABLY EASIER. That's because there is a much larger part of the tipper hitbox that's above ground compared to a frame 8 IP, I'd estimate about 15-20% more. Additionally, executing a delayed IP is actually not hard at all, you just have to slightly slow down your thumb as it's slipping from the B button to A.

I also wanted to compare a max distance F10 IP (holding forward) and made these:

Spoiler

The difference in range between a max-distance F10 IP and a no-distance F8 one is practically 1 character-length. Now we won't actually be getting no-distance IPs during an actual match too often (you gotta input forward for a single frame and immediately let go), but the fact that we have this much control on the move's range is pretty cool.

Some other, less practical stuff that I found out while testing this:

• A max-distance F8 IP has more range than a no-distance F10 one, but the latter has a much larger tipper hitbox.
• It's actually possible to fade back from a frame perfect Dragon Lunge hop, just enough to grab the ledge from the position I used to test this out.
• Dragon Lunge seems to have a few different animations as far as the ribbons wrapping Corrin's hand are concerned. Neat attention to detail, I guess.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I've been at a loss lately of how exactly to approach the offstage game. I know bair and tipper DL are Corrin's best edgeguarding tools, but how should I set up situations where they work? What can I even do against opponents who go low, other than attempt the fh dair thing or try to hit them as they're coming up and potentially put myself in a worse situation than them if I miss?

You generally want to wait, try to 2-frame or simply catch their recovery with a TIPPER (sometimes, 2-framing isn't even necessary, like when they try to jump to grab the edge or something along those lines. I find that kind of boring, so I try to gimp with B-air. You can totally do this, you just kind of have to master your recovery if you want to go low (most people do recover low). Feels great when you can actually WoP (Wall of Pain) someone with B-airs. Did this to C.Falcon and Cloud a few times. also, work on Ledge Trumps. We get a ton off of it, like TIPPERs.

Based on Lavani 's post that there are 3 possible IP timings (F8, 9 and 10), i spent some time in the lab to see just how much they differ in range, and I whipped up this pic:

All 3 are Instant Pins performed after rolling to the ledge and with 0 forward momentum (using training mode's 1/4x speed). Now the difference in range isn't anything to write home about, BUT with a frame 10 IP, tippering becomes NOTICEABLY EASIER. That's because there is a much larger part of the tipper hitbox that's above ground compared to a frame 8 IP, I'd estimate about 15-20% more. Additionally, executing a delayed IP is actually not hard at all, you just have to slightly slow down your thumb as it's slipping from the B button to A.

I also wanted to compare a max distance F10 IP (holding forward) and made these:

Spoiler

The difference in range between a max-distance F10 IP and a no-distance F8 one is practically 1 character-length. Now we won't actually be getting no-distance IPs during an actual match too often (you gotta input forward for a single frame and immediately let go), but the fact that we have this much control on the move's range is pretty cool.

Some other, less practical stuff that I found out while testing this:

• A max-distance F8 IP has more range than a no-distance F10 one, but the latter has a much larger tipper hitbox.
• It's actually possible to fade back from a frame perfect Dragon Lunge hop, just enough to grab the ledge from the position I used to test this out.
• Dragon Lunge seems to have a few different animations as far as the ribbons wrapping Corrin's hand are concerned. Neat attention to detail, I guess.

i love you

also, I don't think it's easy. I found it hard even when Training by myself. Like, you're trying to get the latest hitbox without jumping. There's also a chance that there's one final hitbox, that it's the actual tip itself right on the ground. It's vertical range looks freaking hilarious. Basically found out about the delayed version after I had trouble landing them on Rosalina and maybe Lucina. Other characters are a lot easier, even if it's not their actual feet their hitting (a little bit in front, actually). It seems that short characters might be easier to hit, maybe it's coincidence. Pikachu, Kirby & gaw were a lot easier to hit.

 

[Empyrean]

There's also a chance that there's one final hitbox, that it's the actual tip itself right on the ground.

I doubt it. After 30 minutes of repeating different timings I was only able to get those 3 variations for a no momentum IP. I'm led to believe frame 11 Dragon Lunge will not pin and has most of the tipper hitbox above ground.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Why do you, like, do a standing version? We're kind of always on the move.

also:

Inquiries:

- Does someone have a tech demo of Corrin's Extended Dash Dance? Pretty sure I'm doing it wrong.

- Finding uses for F-Tilt besides an emergency kill move. Some people suggested an emergency ''get off me'' move, but it feels like a lesser option against Jab or D-Tilt, at least in terms of frame data. It's decently fast, for a tilt. But I tend to prefer other stuff. I see it as an in-between Pivot Grab and turnaround F-Smash, in terms of range and speed. It seems to punish rolls pretty well, and even if it doesn't hit, apparently it's pretty safe on Shield. It's upwards trajectory might also offer a secondary juggling tool at lower percents, with the sellout of being on the move. at higher percents, it doubles as a kill move (kills about the same as U-Throw?).

also2:

We should capitalise on our juggling and frame trap abilities. I've always withheld from using U-air until killing, but it actually doubles for a juggling move at low and mid percents. Our range should technically allow us to stay safer, too. also, rising/falling N-air. I mean, personally, I literally don't use it only because it doesn't look sexy. Like, literally. I do this stuff.

 

[Delzethin]

You generally want to wait, try to 2-frame or simply catch their recovery with a TIPPER (sometimes, 2-framing isn't even necessary, like when they try to jump to grab the edge or something along those lines. I find that kind of boring, so I try to gimp with B-air. You can totally do this, you just kind of have to master your recovery if you want to go low (most people do recover low). Feels great when you can actually WoP (Wall of Pain) someone with B-airs. Did this to C.Falcon and Cloud a few times. also, work on Ledge Trumps. We get a ton off of it, like TIPPERs.

So I should just focus on 2-frame DL and bair? Hm...

 

[KnightFF]

Hey guys Captain falcon main here and I was wondering what is the best way to try to edgeguard Corrin I find that a well timed dair works really well before Corrin starts his Up B but it pretty hard to land in a match. Any tips on weakness of recover or advice? Thank you in advance!

 

[OceloT42]

Hey guys Captain falcon main here and I was wondering what is the best way to try to edgeguard Corrin I find that a well timed dair works really well before Corrin starts his Up B but it pretty hard to land in a match. Any tips on weakness of recover or advice? Thank you in advance!

IT'S...ITS THE ENEMY!!!
Having said that, edgeguarding Corrin requires attacks that hit directly from above, because the wings protect his/her sides really well.Y'know, gigantic flapping hitboxes.
Predicting when Corrin might start the up B is crucial, because you have to hit after invincibility frames. Keep in mind we Corrins have 3 different angles to work with.
If you have to attack Corrin during Draconic Ascent (the name is so cool.It sounds like part of a religion or something.Draconic Asceeeeent.), as I said earlier, best to bonk him/her over the head.That's the only unprotected part.
I am not really familiar with Falcon's hitboxes, but disjoints work to your advantage. For style points you could Punch him/her into the wall for a stage spike, it may blaze through the wings.(Yes.The Punch.).
To your thanks in advance, I say welcome in retrospect! (Is...is that correct?Am I doing this right?)
From a Corange main.

 

[KnightFF]

IT'S...ITS THE ENEMY!!!
Having said that, edgeguarding Corrin requires attacks that hit directly from above, because the wings protect his/her sides really well.Y'know, gigantic flapping hitboxes.
Predicting when Corrin might start the up B is crucial, because you have to hit after invincibility frames. Keep in mind we Corrins have 3 different angles to work with.
If you have to attack Corrin during Draconic Ascent (the name is so cool.It sounds like part of a religion or something.Draconic Asceeeeent.), as I said earlier, best to bonk him/her over the head.That's the only unprotected part.
I am not really familiar with Falcon's hitboxes, but disjoints work to your advantage. For style points you could Punch him/her into the wall for a stage spike, it may blaze through the wings.(Yes.The Punch.).
To your thanks in advance, I say welcome in retrospect! (Is...is that correct?Am I doing this right?)
From a Corange main.

Thanks a lot

 

[OceloT42]

Quick question, is it possible to pull off hypey hype combos after pinning an opponent to the stage wall and kicking away from the stage?

Not related, but I am in love with Breath of the Wild.

 

[Nah]

Quick question, is it possible to pull off hypey hype combos after pinning an opponent to the stage wall and kicking away from the stage?

Probably not? If you have them pinned against the stage wall you can just kick forward to hit them with an untechable stage spike that can often be lethal, and if it doesn't kill them, you can continue your edgeguarding from a better position. Kicking away would also result in a stage spike, but then you're all the way offstage and aren't in what I'd call a fantastic position.

 

[dskank]

Sacrilege. You must never play male Corrin.


Also what. How are you using DI? This is like the most rare thing in the game that requires a ridiculous amount of rage and bad DI. It's way too rare to act like it's a major issue.

I'll tell everyone on this thread what to do about Rosa Uair. Luma's has higher BKB but Rosa's has higher KBG. Below ~100%, Luma's is stronger. Interestingly, Luma's sends people inwards (like Diddy's D-throw). The idea for this is to have Luma's Uair knock the opponent into Rosa's. If you DI away after Luma Uair's, you'll fly straight upwards and die stupid early if there's rage involved. You have to DI inwards to get hit by Rosa's for the reduced knockback, thus allowing you not to die at 70. Also the optimal way to DI Rosa Uair is away. Enjoy having to DI in then out a split second later.

Weirdly enough I di inward and died. Think I must have been on the smashvil platform or something, because we were both at zero

 

[Planty]

Weirdly enough I di inward and died. Think I must have been on the smashvil platform or something, because we were both at zero

You must have been right at the blast zone or something. Pretty much anything will kill at that point.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I keep finding myself in situations where I jump into attacks, which is most a cause of bad spacing. I think I'm sure what most of the problem is, and it's the fact that I just...jump. Like, we do everything out of our jump, right (at least our aerials, which are great...when spaced perfectly). When I'm right next to someone and I want to get away and/or do a retreating aerial or something, this kind of stuff happens. I'm too close to the person (and generaly not close enough to Grab, ironically) and I want to close in the gap but they either Shield or throw some aerial OoS or just something that has me looking like a doofus running into attacks or whatever.

How do I avoid it? Is my concept of spacing super off? Hero_2_All am I misunderstanding shield frame advantage? When I hit their Shield, the only thing I can do afterwards is wait and Shield myself, or something. Maybe it's not as free as I had in mind?

 

[OceloT42]

I keep finding myself in situations where I jump into attacks, which is most a cause of bad spacing. I think I'm sure what most of the problem is, and it's the fact that I just...jump. Like, we do everything out of our jump, right (at least our aerials, which are great...when spaced perfectly). When I'm right next to someone and I want to get away and/or do a retreating aerial or something, this kind of stuff happens. I'm too close to the person (and generaly not close enough to Grab, ironically) and I want to close in the gap but they either Shield or throw some aerial OoS or just something that has me looking like a doofus running into attacks or whatever.

How do I avoid it? Is my concept of spacing super off? Hero_2_All am I misunderstanding shield frame advantage? When I hit their Shield, the only thing I can do afterwards is wait and Shield myself, or something. Maybe it's not as free as I had in mind?

Yes,you do suffer from a case of Badspacing-itis.
I'm not really sure if this will help you out but here's two important pieces of information.
1)Corrin happens to have one of the shortest grab ranges in the game.
2)He/she also has the fastest dash to shield speed, at 8 frames.
So maybe you could switch up your approach to dash shielding (and anticipate grabs).
Hero_2_all is much better at this than me though, but I hope this helps.

 

[Hero_2_All]

I keep finding myself in situations where I jump into attacks, which is most a cause of bad spacing. I think I'm sure what most of the problem is, and it's the fact that I just...jump. Like, we do everything out of our jump, right (at least our aerials, which are great...when spaced perfectly). When I'm right next to someone and I want to get away and/or do a retreating aerial or something, this kind of stuff happens. I'm too close to the person (and generaly not close enough to Grab, ironically) and I want to close in the gap but they either Shield or throw some aerial OoS or just something that has me looking like a doofus running into attacks or whatever.

How do I avoid it? Is my concept of spacing super off? Hero_2_All am I misunderstanding shield frame advantage? When I hit their Shield, the only thing I can do afterwards is wait and Shield myself, or something. Maybe it's not as free as I had in mind?

When you hit attack to sheild it is thier frame advatage or at the best equal from shield drop. The sheild safety assumes frame perfect fast falling (real safety varies on execution). You should be on the deffensive if they have advatage. Only continue to attack if your out ranging or you know you can out frame data them even if they have a frame or so of advatage. If you know sheilding is happening allot. Corrins tomohawk dash grab is very nice.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Playing a bit of FG, I seem to have been getting a bit of a hang of it. Yes, I said FG. Thing is, believe it or not, it's not so bad to practice key fundamental aspects of our play like these. FG players attack...a lot. With that said, it's even more important to have your spacing in check. I took your advice into account, and it just seems I haven't been mixing it up when it comes to my ground game. It can be easy to be tempted into 90% aerials, but we do have a bit of "maylay" in our arsenal. For one, I should Shield more when they're up close. Just as I have to get closer in to Grab, so do they (unless they have an insane Grab range). I find myself D-Tilt'ing a lot more around this range, and Jab 1 or 2 help making up mixups. U-Tilt's a pretty good anti-air, which saves me the trouble of jumping in the first place when it's not optimal.

I basically had two Corrin "models" in mind. My first, being one that tries to "get in" a lot more. Get those nice strings in. The other, wall out. Tons of B-air. I'm honestly still not sure when I should concentrate on walling with B-air (with the exception of killing/gimping). I mean, F-air works pretty well with spacing and it doesn't sacrifice potential strings, right? I also still find it hard to time it properly, because the wind push makes the spacing confusing and getting punished when I'm on my back (13 frame startup isn't the fastest thing)

 

[OceloT42]

Playing a bit of FG, I seem to have been getting a bit of a hang of it. Yes, I said FG. Thing is, believe it or not, it's not so bad to practice key fundamental aspects of our play like these. FG players attack...a lot. With that said, it's even more important to have your spacing in check. I took your advice into account, and it just seems I haven't been mixing it up when it comes to my ground game. It can be easy to be tempted into 90% aerials, but we do have a bit of "maylay" in our arsenal. For one, I should Shield more when they're up close. Just as I have to get closer in to Grab, so do they (unless they have an insane Grab range). I find myself D-Tilt'ing a lot more around this range, and Jab 1 or 2 help making up mixups. U-Tilt's a pretty good anti-air, which saves me the trouble of jumping in the first place when it's not optimal.

I basically had two Corrin "models" in mind. My first, being one that tries to "get in" a lot more. Get those nice strings in. The other, wall out. Tons of B-air. I'm honestly still not sure when I should concentrate on walling with B-air (with the exception of killing/gimping). I mean, F-air works pretty well with spacing and it doesn't sacrifice potential strings, right? I also still find it hard to time it properly, because the wind push makes the spacing confusing and getting punished when I'm on my back (13 frame startup isn't the fastest thing)

Don't worry about playing on FG, we've all been there.
I wouldn't really recommend walling with Bairs. There's no denying that you could, and that the strategy would work well for the most part, but the startup and spacing might mess up, and it should mean losing a stock.
Normally I use my bair to attack anyone returning to stage from above ledge, or as a surprise attack for anyone with a habit of jumping on to stage from ledge. Or sometimes I simply use it to flap around the stage like a rabid bat if I took a stock and the opponent is a jerk.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

lol,don't say like I'm some newbie who's never been to tournaments. Nice input, though. It's definitely on my list of "don't do's"and "just do less".

also, don't Dash Grabs suck, in general?

 

[Hero_2_All]

You guys need to get on the Corrin discord.... thats were most our meta talk goes on.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

discord wut is that
is that the new smashboards

 

[gridatttack]

So Methacrylate at the discord app provided the following info that is missing on the Kurogammer page (most notably, the FAF on the throws). The KB and angle info listed here only applies to the tippers of F and B throw.

Fthrow:
FAF 29 (?)
Tipper damage 10
BKB: 40
BKG: 120
Angle 361

BThrow:
FAF 26
Tipper damage 12
BKB: 40
BKG: 110
Angle: 50

Uthrow:
FAF 43

Dthrow:
FAF 45

So yeah, Bthrow seems to be our fastest throw.

discord wut is that
is that the new smashboards

It's a place where we can chat via instant messages. There's a section there dedicated to discuss info like this with others. You can use it with the web browser without downloading anything.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

also, I've always preferred F & B-Throw, as it sends them lower and closer. I ocassionally get a B-air, or even a TIPPER kill off of it. Think of it, it tends to leavey your opponent to airdodge, Jump or DI somewhere.

 

[Hero_2_All]

discord wut is that
is that the new smashboards

https://discordapp.com/channels/126443891070074880/126443891070074880
This is the corrin discord, there is one for every main.

 

[OceloT42]

lol,don't say like I'm some newbie who's never been to tournaments. Nice input, though. It's definitely on my list of "don't do's"and "just do less".

also, don't Dash Grabs suck, in general?

Oh, I'm really sorry,I didn't mean to imply that.I just explain stuff like that so that anyone else reading it can also understand.My bad lol.
Question: How on earth do you have red text?

 

[Nah]

If y'all could sometimes post some of the meta stuff you talk about in Discord channel since not everyone's into that kind of thing that'd be great

Question: How on earth do you have red text?

Hover over your name at the top right of the screen, and then click "Preferences" on the menu that appears. Part way down there's an option where you can type in the name of color, which cause all the text in your posts to be that color by default.

 

[OceloT42]

If y'all could sometimes post some of the meta stuff you talk about in Discord channel since not everyone's into that kind of thing that'd be great



Hover over your name at the top right of the screen, and then click "Preferences" on the menu that appears. Part way down there's an option where you can type in the name of color, which cause all the text in your posts to be that color by default.

Thanks pal!
Also, I found out just now that Corrin's utilt can catch bad airdodges with its long hitbox, and dtilt can help you set up a bair with a good bit of reading.
I'm loving Corrin more with every match.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

U-Tilt's cute as ****, thing is, I kind of avoided it in place of F-air. Like, potential strings and stuff.

I'm loving my Corrin more with every match.

also, what do you mean Nah. What kind of stuff do the folk talk about, if not metagame?

 

[Nah]

also, what do you mean Nah. What kind of stuff do the folk talk about, if not metagame?

I mean for them to post what they talk about on Discord here on the forum. I take it if Discord's where "most of our meta talk goes on" there's some information that some people are gonna miss out simply because they aren't active on Discord, and that'd suck a bit. Sorry if I was unclear.

 

[OceloT42]

Guys are there any footstool combos for Corrin like there are for Ike?
It certainly looks possible?

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I got one, not sure if it's combo though. a friend kind of teched them. Is that even possible?

 

[Empyrean]

I mean for them to post what they talk about on Discord here on the forum. I take it if Discord's where "most of our meta talk goes on" there's some information that some people are gonna miss out simply because they aren't active on Discord, and that'd suck a bit. Sorry if I was unclear.

I dunno about others but I'll still be posting anything i lab extensively like delayed IP here for archiving purposes.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Is N/F-air to Bite even practical?I've never actually seen it used in a real match, much like FH F-air to Side B or U-air (I did it once in my life, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't fishing for it). The conditions would look like this:

1) actually not hit their Shield and expect to react fast enough, if the aerial does land
2) You have to do the up-close versions? That's asking to get grabbed.

and for FH combos, you have to FH. assuming you're a robot and actually expect them not to Shield, you'll pretty much be fishing for those? I mean, yeah, FH F-air is pretty sage, but so are the other normal SH versions that don't leave a ton of space for the opponent.

 

[Planty]

Is N/F-air to Bite even practical?I've never actually seen it used in a real match, much like FH F-air to Side B or U-air (I did it once in my life, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't fishing for it). The conditions would look like this:

1) actually not hit their Shield and expect to react fast enough, if the aerial does land
2) You have to do the up-close versions? That's asking to get grabbed.

and for FH combos, you have to FH. assuming you're a robot and actually expect them not to Shield, you'll pretty much be fishing for those? I mean, yeah, FH F-air is pretty sage, but so are the other normal SH versions that don't leave a ton of space for the opponent.

It's not. At all. You could barely do it in training mode.

FH Fair -> Uair can be used if the opponent is in the air actually. You chase them up with a Fair then double jump Uair and it's a kill confirm. Set the CPU in training mode to jump and practice. Works best on light fast fallers.

 

[Lavani]

Turned on the game to doublecheck some stuff with Corrin's dair disjoint, inadvertently discovered that fair>tipper fsmash actually combos on some characters for a small percentage range without DI (35-55% on Falcon, seems to work in high 30s/low 40s on Fox, Marth/Palutena get hit by fsmash a tad after hitstun ends). If they DI fair away, this should work on everyone for a larger window and likely on the lower ends of kill percent near the edge (no DI combo stops working on Fox/Falcon about 5% before kill percent from FD starting point).

Unsure how applicable this is overall, but since it gets better with the usually-optimal DI for avoiding fair combos and is a lot easier to input than fair>DFS I figure it's worth mentioning.

edit: killing on DI away has a pretty small window and doesn't work with spaced fair sadly
earlier than that though it works with a spaced fair for 24% and puts them offstage from most positions, at a high enough percent for them to die from tipper sideB/fsmash edgeguard.

edit2: if you perfect pivot instead of stutter step, spaced fair>fsmash actually works at kill percent too, but the execution requirement is obviously much higher.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

F-air strings to F-Smash are sexy as ****.