Q&A Gameplay Q&A and General Discussion Thread

[ARGHETH]

That feeling when Corrin has an 8-frame F-Smash that kills at 100, that also happens to be super safe.

Fsmash's from 17-22 (including all hitboxes), so it's 6 frames total.

 

[PK Gaming]

Fsmash's from 17-22 (including all hitboxes), so it's 6 frames total.

I imagine Oz is talking about Instant Pin

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Albeit, it's a million times harder said than done. But, hey, there's definitely progress. I thought it was super luck-based, but it takes great aim. Especially if they can move. It'll definitely pay off, though. It helps it's sexy as ****.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Also, is there, liek, an actual, realistic scenario where I can land this? Aiming in itself feels hard as ****. The fact that the opponent can move, jump and attack makes it near impossible. I need them standing still in one place. But, you know, Shields.

Suggestions, anyone? I don't think it catches landings, either. It's super quick, so it'll eventually land if I can get them where I need to.

 

[PK Gaming]

Yeah I don't think I've ever intentionally landed it.

It's not something I would strive to master, tbh. Very finnicky and awkward to land; i'd sooner liken it to a critical hit from a Fire Emblem game.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

YOU'VE SEEN NOTHING

 

[atreyujames]

Honestly Dragon Lunge isn't that hard of a move to land on stage. It's best as a punish move IMO so it requires patient baiting of the opponent into something unsafe and mispaced, which can be punished easily with DL due to the long range.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Uh, no. Don't pretend it's not. It's very much of a hassle to get down, even against a CPU. It's not as simple as aiming for their feet, but rather the space between your opponent's feet and the floor. Not only that, it varies on some characters. Palutena seems really straightforward, right by her feet. Then there's Rosalina, who has this weird thing with her feet floating as well as her dress covering them, so I found myself hitting Luma most of the time.

Now, I'm about 90% sure I finally got it down, and it appears to be work of a happy accident. Maybe Region didn't even realize this, as that's a pretty early Corrin. He also happened to catch a few landings on most of those kills, which supports my case even further (the tip that goes underground has a tiny little slump that barely touches their feet, which might be why I had trouble doing this on Rosalina)

Until I can confirm this 100%, I'd like to leave to your theories. It's a surprise. ;3

 

[atreyujames]

OHHH your talking about JUST the tipper when using insta-pin. No one actually mentioned the tipper by name so I didn't pick up on it. Some of the only times I purposefully use tipper Insta-pin is when I'm catching a 2 frame or somebody hanging at the ledge too long. I've done it before on purpose at other moments, but honestly I only land it about 10-15% of the times I go for it. It's just much easier to get the tipper off of a shorthop albiet it takes longer.

 

[ARGHETH]

OHHH your talking about JUST the tipper when using insta-pin. No one actually mentioned the tipper by name so I didn't pick up on it. Some of the only times I purposefully use tipper Insta-pin is when I'm catching a 2 frame or somebody hanging at the ledge too long. I've done it before on purpose at other moments, but honestly I only land it about 10-15% of the times I go for it. It's just much easier to get the tipper off of a shorthop albiet it takes longer.

...
That would make a lot more sense.

 

[Planty]

I was a bit confused too before I figured out they were talking about tipper DL. Regular IP is super easy to land.

 

[Empyrean]

Honestly the only time you should actively look for tipper IP is around kill percents (90% up until the range where the kicks start killing) or like atreyujames said, to catch the 2 frames or possible ledge drop aerial attempts. Getting the pin + kick will deal 19% compared to the tipper's 15%, and give better positional advantage too imo.

Also I'm not sure if this is actually a thing, but i've noticed that it's possible to get a "delayed" IP, meaning more of the tipper hitbox should theoretically be above ground, thus easier to connect. Dunno how easy it is to get consistently though.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Pretty much all the above. I wasn't even insinuating it's use as a common way to replace the normal Instant Pin. That'd be silly, and we'd only be stalling a powerful kill move (not to mention it doesn't even look sexy as a spam move, how dare you).

Looking back at the example I provided, it looks like I was right. You delay the Pin so you actually have the tipper on the ground (as opposed to, right under). By the looks of it, it's also about as straight-forward as it's normal, aerial version. all this TIPPER labbing made the normal tip Easy Mode. ):

Going to keep looking into it. If possible, can someone tell me the frame data of the most delayed Instant Pin?

 

[Lavani]

The latest you can start the attack and still pin is 7f (hitting 10f), meaning you can delay up to 2 frames if you don't actually want it to be instant.

 

[gridatttack]

About the IP Tipper kills while you stick to the ground.

Yes, It's amazing. I have landed it multiple times. I have deliberately hit with it like 3 times, because it's hard to do, but I always try to space it and aim it. When I landed them deliberately, 2 were when my opponent was lowering their shield, and the other one when they were getting up from the ledge. The other tippers are actually random.

When I land it, I always stay pinned to the ground, watching as my opponent gets KO'd lol.

As for the IP to not get stick in the groud, I use it when they are landing (their landing lag specifically) or if the are in their ending frames from their attack. It's a bit risky, as you have considerably landing lag for them to punish you.

I wonder whats the actual space you need to hit the tipper hitboxes so it hits the opponent rather than pinning them.

 

[Empyrean]

I wonder whats the actual space you need to hit the tipper hitboxes so it hits the opponent rather than pinning them.

@Oz I made a thing for IP tipper after finding out I could see how far into the stage the spear stuck on 2D stages:

Zooming in on what's above ground...

You need to hit with that little purple bump without hitting them with the sourspot for an instant pin tipper, which is why it's so precise and inconsistent.

I'll be testing out how consistent delayed IP is and if it's any good.

 

[OceloT42]

In my humble opinion Corrin has the best side-B and one of the best specials in the game.I mean you get movement options,pseudo-wall clings (situationally),kills,edgeguards,and control off of that. Plus it's a unique mechanic (obviously,her being a DLC newcomer, but still) and it's enjoyable as well as passively violent,what with her straight up impaling people.
Feel free to disagree, agree, support my statement or prove me wrong. Just putting my thoughts out here because I love Corrin and want to see her become a top notch unique character.

 

[Planty]

In my humble opinion Corrin has the best side-B

Limit side-b. I mean, you play Cloud don't you? How could you ignore it? DL is probably the second best side-b though.

 

[OceloT42]

Limit side-b. I mean, you play Cloud don't you? How could you ignore it? DL is probably the second best side-b though.

While I love limit side b,I don't consider it the best because
1) cannot use it when you like
2)DL has more utility.
I'd say limit side b is second best though.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

When I land it, I always stay pinned to the ground, watching as my opponent gets KO'd lol.

This guy knows.

In my humble opinion Corrin has the best side-B and one of the best specials in the game.I mean you get movement options,pseudo-wall clings (situationally),kills,edgeguards,and control off of that. Plus it's a unique mechanic (obviously,her being a DLC newcomer, but still) and it's enjoyable as well as passively violent,what with her straight up impaling people.
Feel free to disagree, agree, support my statement or prove me wrong. Just putting my thoughts out here because I love Corrin and want to see her become a top notch unique character.

That's impossible, Bowser's Side B exists.


also, I'm sure it's pretty consistent to get down. I have a bit of a problem with the timing, though. You have to do it without doing the jump version. an extra 1-2 frames is a pretty nice trade when you can kill at 70-80 by the edge (I don't go for it cross-stage or center unless I know it'll kill). It's sell-out is that it's still a ridiculously powerful fast and safe kill move.

 

[ARGHETH]

While I love limit side b,I don't consider it the best because
1) cannot use it when you like
2)DL has more utility.
I'd say limit side b is second best though.

LCS is partially invincible, does 24%, kills early, and comes out F10. It's really, really, good.

That's impossible, Bowser's Side B exists.

Bowser's Side B? Really? It's good, but best in the game?

 

[Deleted member 189823]

It beats Shields, something that really bugs us. I mean, sure, we're safe against 90% of the cast, but you're only constantly resetting to neutral and giving them the extra space they need (which will happen, assuming you're opponent is moderately smart and actually shields. Bowser's also serves as an aerial command grab, murders platforms and kills even better.

In the end, I think both are great, but I'm pretty hesitant to put Corrin's as best in the game. Beating Shields is pretty big.

 

[OceloT42]

It beats Shields, something that really bugs us. I mean, sure, we're safe against 90% of the cast, but you're only constantly resetting to neutral and giving them the extra space they need (which will happen, assuming you're opponent is moderately smart and actually shields. Bowser's also serves as an aerial command grab, murders platforms and kills even better.

In the end, I think both are great, but I'm pretty hesitant to put Corrin's as best in the game. Beating Shields is pretty big.

Lol, hugging people to gain temporary fight powers is something I'd love to have.
Also could anyone create a heatmap (is that what they're called?) of the hitboxes of the flight path of Draconic Ascent? I'd really like to know.
Also is it recommended to use Draconic Ascent to finish off a combo?I don't want to risk helplessness but it seems pretty good.

 

[Hero_2_All]

Lol, hugging people to gain temporary fight powers is something I'd love to have.
Also could anyone create a heatmap (is that what they're called?) of the hitboxes of the flight path of Draconic Ascent? I'd really like to know.
Also is it recommended to use Draconic Ascent to finish off a combo?I don't want to risk helplessness but it seems pretty good.

Up b sadly has too much start up, and has one really meh way to combo into that we know of besides a dfs which is FH rising f-air into up-b, but Fh-rising f-air only hits the tallest characters in the cast.

 

[Planty]

Lol, hugging people to gain temporary fight powers is something I'd love to have.
Also could anyone create a heatmap (is that what they're called?) of the hitboxes of the flight path of Draconic Ascent? I'd really like to know.
Also is it recommended to use Draconic Ascent to finish off a combo?I don't want to risk helplessness but it seems pretty good.

Up b sadly has too much start up, and has one really meh way to combo into that we know of besides a dfs which is FH rising f-air into up-b, but Fh-rising f-air only hits the tallest characters in the cast.

Haven't tested it but you could probably combo into up-b out of DFS for kills at the right situations. Still no reason to do it though when there's better options. Just don't use up-b for anything except recovery. Forget the move even exists unless you're offstage.

 

[OceloT42]

Haven't tested it but you could probably combo into up-b out of DFS for kills at the right situations. Still no reason to do it though when there's better options. Just don't use up-b for anything except recovery. Forget the move even exists unless you're offstage.

Its one redeeming property is its huge hitbox that keeps you safe mostly. Other than that its really average, so yeah guess I won't combo with it. Thanks guys.Heatmaps anyone?

 

[Empyrean]

Heatmaps anyone?

Not an heatmap cuz that would require a bit of work and frankly wouldn't be too useful, but we do have these thanks to based Lavani .

I assume the rest of the move follows through with the 3rd pic's hitboxes.

Up-b could also be used as an airdodge read but even then, DFS is the safer option and yields more reward. I've also seen it used as a punish for reading double jumps near the top blastzone but unless the opponent commits to an aerial for some reason or a special (like Monkey flip), they should always be able to react and airdodge if they're paying a semblance of attention to Corrin. I agree that you should never use it outside of recovery.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Also is it recommended to use Draconic Ascent to finish off a combo?I don't want to risk helplessness but it seems pretty good.

lol, no. It has a disgusting 18 frames startup...although:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-IM_SQQL_Q

13:25

A kill setup, apparently. Not sure why I'd go for it, doesn't even look sexy. okay, apparently it catches people at a pretty big percentage window, so that's there. I don't encourage people to aim for kill setups unless they're really solid, like F-air/N-air to strongest Bite, FH F-air to Side-B TIPPER or FH to U-air after 100. Never tried D-Tilt to U-air, but apparently it's always been a thing and kills about the same as FH F-air to U-air.

Inquiry:

- Does someone have a tech demo of Corrin's Extended Dash Dance? Pretty sure I'm doing it wrong.

- Finding uses for F-Tilt besides an emergency kill move. Some people suggested an emergency ''get off me'' move, but it feels like a lesser option against Jab or D-Tilt, at least in terms of frame data. It's decently fast, for a tilt. But I tend to prefer other stuff. I see it as an in-between Pivot Grab and turnaround F-Smash, in terms of range and speed. It seems to punish rolls pretty well, and even if it doesn't hit, apparently it's pretty safe on Shield. It's upwards trajectory might also offer a secondary juggling tool at lower percents, with the sellout of being on the move. at higher percents, it doubles as a kill move (kills about the same as U-Throw?).

 

[Casey Chase]

Dunno if this has already been asked, but what are Corrin's best stages?

 

[Planty]

Dunno if this has already been asked, but what are Corrin's best stages?

Battlefield and Dreamland. Then Smashville.

Lylat is the worst, followed by FD. Everything in between is more subjective.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Battlefields I, II & III, aka Miiverse & Dreamland. In that order. after those, somewhere between Town & City convenient platforms, space and low ceiling) or Omega with walls (extra recovery + being able to spike people).

also, wut. Lylat's definitely pretty bad-ish for us, but FD's as neutral as it gets. Being able to move around as you will's pretty great.

 

[Empyrean]

but FD's as neutral as it gets

I dunno about neutral or no but if you have the choice to go to a stage with platforms, you should definitely take it (except for lylat). Corrin's platform pressure is just too good to pass up on the opportunity, with bair, nair and uptilt covering an entire platform + all the other goodies like DL shenanigans. It's not that FD is bad for Corrin, but when compared to platformed stages it's not hard to see the superior choice.

 

[dskank]

Hey I'm a peach main looking for a secondary and corrin seems to cover her worst mus well. I need opinions on a few mus, how does corrin do against cloud, rosa, sonic and marth(other swordsman in general really). Those are peaches worste mus, and I want to know if the mus are fun to play, regardless of being hard or not, because playing peach in those mus make me want to self harm xD.

 

[Hero_2_All]

So I asked Cosmos on the discord about trump to tipper side b today.... here is the conversation:

Hero_2_All-Today at 8:50 AM

@Cosmos Quick question man. Wanted to ask you this because you seem to use this option allot. If you know, what members of the cast does trump to tipper side b not sweet spot on in the 50/50? If any?


Cosmos-Today at 12:38 PM
Hero_2_All only character i know it doesn't work on is fox

but maybe i just haven't figured out the timing for it yet

but it works on everyone else if timed perfectly to my knowledge

and its not a 50/50, its completely true

:l

Hero_2_All-Today at 1:53 PM

@Cosmos ok, Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.... and it's true? Holy **** that's strong. Also do different characters require a different timing on the side-b? I personally noticed during my practicing of this tech that you can't really mash side b and get it to work right consistently (maybe my mashing is garbage doe). If so I take it this needs near frame perfect timings?


Cosmos-Today at 1:53 PM
nah u ledge trump instantly

then buffer jump

then side b as soon as ur off the ledge

if u mash, it doesn't come out perfectly timed Hero_2_All


Hero_2_All-Today at 1:56 PM

@Cosmos so is it a one timing fits all that it works. Or do different character's trumps require different timings on the side-b?(edited)



Cosmos-Today at 1:57 PM
uh

if you do it instantly every character but fox is the same

if it frame perfect that is Hero_2_All


Hero_2_All-Today at 1:58 PM

@Cosmos Ok ty for the answers. Good job pushing the meta man and good luck at low tier city. Also seems you showed ryuga and esam some tech knowledge the other day.(edited)

Then he just talked around with random small talk. Still it is fing true... damn son.

 

[Hero_2_All]

Hey I'm a peach main looking for a secondary and corrin seems to cover her worst mus well. I need opinions on a few mus, how does corrin do against cloud, rosa, sonic and marth(other swordsman in general really). Those are peaches worste mus, and I want to know if the mus are fun to play, regardless of being hard or not, because playing peach in those mus make me want to self harm xD.

Corrin goes even with most swordies, and both cosmos and dabuz have said corrin does well vs rosa. Sonic is kinda up in the air atm, but thoughts say it's probs in somewhat sonic favor, or maybe even.

 

[dskank]

Corrin goes even with most swordies, and both cosmos and dabuz have said corrin does well vs rosa. Sonic is kinda up in the air atm, but thoughts say it's probs in somewhat sonic favor, or maybe even.

Thanks for the info! How about cloud? In the peach mu it feels like there's nothing she can do and gives up neutral for free, to win in neutral you have to show that cloud something they've never seen before, which can only work so often. Does it feel like a fair fight when u play against cloud?

 

[Hero_2_All]

Thanks for the info! How about cloud? In the peach mu it feels like there's nothing she can do and gives up neutral for free, to win in neutral you have to show that cloud something they've never seen before, which can only work so often. Does it feel like a fair fight when u play against cloud?

Corrin v cloud is very fair. Cloud is better in nuetral due to limit forcing approach and his better mobility, but corrin messes him up in advantage state more than cloud messes up corrin. She can safely challenges his landings with u-air (which with proper spacing beats his d-air), and she edgegaurd's him very well. They also have very equal ranges. Really they both can bully each other equally in that mu. Cloud can use his mobility, and corrin is one of the few characters that can safely juggle him, and challenge his landings. Corrins Tipper options are also at the optimal angle for punishing cloud's up-b snap.

 

[dskank]

Corrin v cloud is very fair. Cloud is better in nuetral due to limit forcing approach and his better mobility, but corrin messes him up in advantage state more than cloud messes up corrin. She can safely challenges his landings with u-air (which with proper spacing beats his d-air), and she edgegaurd's him very well. They also have very equal ranges. Really they both can bully each other equally in that mu. Cloud can use his mobility, and corrin is one of the few characters that can safely juggle him, and challenge his landings. Corrins Tipper options are also at the optimal angle for punishing cloud's up-b snap.

That's ****ing beautiful. Between peach and corrin there are no awful mus, I've found the perfect secondary. Ima bring this info to the peach boards and enlighten them if the sanctimonious marriage. Peach x corrin, corrin the husbando! The good guys can win, no more out playing the opponent and losing to jank, let it be known that Mario is impotent and corrin is in fact the cannon boyfriend. Never again will peach needlessly get zero 2 deathed from Rosas dthrow. End to the tier ***** master race. A marriage of mid tiers lets the better man win!
Sorry for the long post, I'm pretty hype right now.

 

[Hero_2_All]

That's ****ing beautiful. Between peach and corrin there are no awful mus, I've found the perfect secondary. Ima bring this info to the peach boards and enlighten them if the sanctimonious marriage. Peach x corrin, corrin the husbando! The good guys can win, no more out playing the opponent and losing to jank, let it be known that Mario is impotent and corrin is in fact the cannon boyfriend. Never again will peach needlessly get zero 2 deathed from Rosas dthrow. End to the tier ***** master race. A marriage of mid tiers lets the better man win!
Sorry for the long post, I'm pretty hype right now.

I wouldn't say Corrin is a mid tier doe, but ya i mean, he does even to slightly well or bad in those, but I wouldn't say counters any of them. He is popular as a secondary due to his pretty even Mu spread doe.

 

[dskank]

I wouldn't say Corrin is a mid tier doe, but ya i mean, he does even to slightly well or bad in those, but I wouldn't say counters any of them. He is popular as a secondary due to his pretty even Mu spread doe.

Word he's for sure a high tier, but he's not a tier ***** magnet, so I would welcome him in that "rock it for the love" vain rather than gate keeper vain. All I want is even mus, I want the better player to win, it gives me.. Satisfaction.
Cloud can be a 45-55 mu, but the better player should still win a slightly disadvantageous mu. I'm just tired of losing close sets to players that I'm clearly better than, and corrin seems like he will give me that. And he's pretty fun to play.