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Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

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CrazyPerson

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
436
I'd say your best bet is to just figure out what aspects of your playstyle you need to refine (footsies, resetting to neutral, shielding / spotdodging / rolling) and then practice it until you feel confident you can apply it in a real match. Use For Glory as a training ground for techniques if you need to, or better yet, get somebody on Smashboards to play with you on wifi. It isn't the best option, since online play has its own idiosyncrasies that mean it isn't a perfect representation of tournament play, but it's better than nothing.

I can safely say from personal experience, don't bother practicing with the CPU. Use them as punching bags if you need to practice combos or tech, but don't expect to hone your fundamentals with them. They're a very poor imitation of a real opponent, since they have inhuman reaction times, tend to have very predictable habits, don't adjust to your playstyle and don't DI effectively.
Yes... I noticed this. Nearly impossible to practice any air game stuff on computers. Either they are to dumb to do anything to counter or they are evil input readers, other than dash and smash attacks. (and that results into really simplistic game play... It took me a while to learn how to switch from fight mode to comp stomp mode but I am verging way off topic.)

That is why my alone time I opted to start drilling stuff in training. I figure getting ledge trump instinctive could be good... made a stage to practice the oddities of my characters recovery. (I got tired of repeatedly dieing... so a level with a floor to save the time that comes with it.).. but I figured some of the more basic stuff may be lacking due to lack of people immediately around to play it.
 

iDaire

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 4, 2015
Messages
55
Location
New York
NNID
iDaire
I'm back.
I'm finally ranked 2209th, which is a start despite the number being overwhelmingly small.
So, I believe here is the problem now:
Previously, I came to this thread because I wanted to know what's wrong with my gameplay. I don't have any gameplay footage this time, but basically, I've been given some advice.

"I'm too predictable."
"You have a high amount of technical skill, but you're mindgame is very very far from even half-developed."
"You need more tournament experience. This game is not about technical skill once you get on the competitive level, but more about figuring out what the opponent is trying to do and where to go from there."

Now, I know there's no real tips on how to get your mindgame better, but I'd at least like to know, in detail, how to stop being as predictable. I'm not rolling backwards after every attack or anything like that. I'm legitimately trying to combo the opponent, so I don't understand how I'm being predictable.
 

Wintropy

Peace and love and all that jazzmatazz~! <3
Joined
Aug 28, 2014
Messages
10,032
Location
Here, there, who knows?
NNID
Winterwhite
3DS FC
1461-6253-6301
I'm back.
I'm finally ranked 2209th, which is a start despite the number being overwhelmingly small.
So, I believe here is the problem now:
Previously, I came to this thread because I wanted to know what's wrong with my gameplay. I don't have any gameplay footage this time, but basically, I've been given some advice.

"I'm too predictable."
"You have a high amount of technical skill, but you're mindgame is very very far from even half-developed."
"You need more tournament experience. This game is not about technical skill once you get on the competitive level, but more about figuring out what the opponent is trying to do and where to go from there."

Now, I know there's no real tips on how to get your mindgame better, but I'd at least like to know, in detail, how to stop being as predictable. I'm not rolling backwards after every attack or anything like that. I'm legitimately trying to combo the opponent, so I don't understand how I'm being predictable.
Okay, first off, it's good that you were critiqued for your tech skill. Being technical and understanding the mechanics of the game is not a bad thing, and is in fact very desirable. Yet technical skill won't win you tournaments, not if your fundamentals and mastery of the basic elements of the game are lacking.

I'll give you an example from recent experience. I play PM competitively, but right now it's just low-level stuff. I don't have much technical knowledge or expertise (I can barely even wavedash), yet I've done reasonably well in bracket in any tournament I've been to. I don't have much difficulty beating opponents that are much more technically skilled than I am, because most of the ones that I've fought have been relatively sloppy in their basic gameplan and it's very easy to download their style and thereby punish their mistakes. They can be winning for most of the game because they can wavedash and chaingrab 'til the cows come home, but ultimately their plan is predictable and they don't mix it up enough to keep me guessing. It's not difficult to punish that kind of straightforward thinking, especially when you play Ganondorf, a character who thrives on beating down people who make fundamental mistakes. Even so, I get bodied when I fight players that have both good fundamentals and in-depth technical knowledge - and rightly so. They know how to play the game and they can exploit my relative inexperience, because they have better techniques than I do, and most importantly, because they understand the fundamentals of the game. PM is a game where tech skill is very important, probably just as important as fundamentals, but you need both if you're going to succeed.

Tech skill is good if applied well and it's a necessary part of progressing to higher levels of competitive play, but you won't get very far with just that; especially in Smash 4, where tech skill isn't as important as being able to play the game consistently and creatively. So if you're being criticised for being too predictable and not mixing up your gameplay enough - well, that's good feedback and it needs to be addressed!

If you're being punished for being predictable, it's because you're doing the same things in the same way and your opponent is able to read that and punish you before you even do it; even more than that, your opponent will deliberately bait you into responding in a certain way just to get the punish. The more you respond in a certain way, the more you reinforce the pattern both in your head and your opponent's head, and that makes it more difficult for you to mix things up and easier for your opponent to punish you for it. You might approach the same way every time, you might be throwing out unsafe moves, you might be playing aggressively when defensive play is better, or vice-versa. Sometimes it's not a good idea to try to combo at every opportunity; often the best thing to do is to play patiently and set up for a different kind of option, especially if your opponent expects you to combo. Whatever you're doing, you're not doing enough to keep your opponent guessing. That's a dangerous habit to have and you won't do very well until you can fix it.

If you want to be less predictable, the first thing you need to do is evaluate your playstyle and be perfectly candid with your performance. Examine replays of your games and ask yourself: what did I do here that I got punished for? Did I try to approach in the same way or use the same moves in the same contexts? Do I use the same movement options too often? Did I use unsafe moves when a safer move would have been better? You have to be able to recognise your own faults before you can work on fixing them. You probably don't know intuitively what you did wrong, because your mindset within a match is very different to your mindset outside of it, so it's good to review your performance from an objective stance, divorced from the pressure and immediacy of the match itself. Get somebody else to review it for you if you have to. Just make sure you know what you're doing wrong first: you can't fix something if you don't know what the problem is!

The next thing you want to do is practice varying your gameplan and fixing the problems you've identified. This can be very difficult if you've become habituated to perform in a certain way, so it's something you're going to have to consciously try to fix. Go to training mode and set up certain conditions, then respond in a way that you wouldn't normally, and keep doing it until it becomes muscle memory. Then do the same thing and find a different way to respond to it. Play with friends and force yourself to try new things until you don't feel compelled to do the same habitual things you've been doing up to this point. If you notice yourself falling back into the usual unsafe rut, force yourself to take notice and then try to do something else next time. It can help to play different characters when practicing, as this will help you get a feel for different playstyles and force you to hone your skills in different ways - for example, if you have difficulty approaching, it might be good to play a character with a wide variety of approach options, or if you can't play defensively, you can play a character that wants to stay back and be patient. Don't dismiss your main entirely, but try to branch out and experiment with new things. Diversity can help you refine your skills in ways you wouldn't be able to with just the one character!

Then you want to get better at reading your opponent. There's no right way to practice reading and no magic formula to make you better at predicting your opponent's moves, but the best way I've found to refine your reading skills is to take it slow and consider what options your opponent has in any given moment. Think about how they've done things themselves and whether they will do the same thing now. Know the optimal way to punish and be prepared to do something different if they mix it up. Never get complacent in your reads: if your opponent predicts that you will respond to their move in a certain way (in other words, if they read the read), they can react differently to throw you off or, again, bait and punish. Being able to read your opponent is just as important as making it difficult for your opponent to read you.

Finally, practice. Play with other, better people, go to tournaments more, just keep playing and never stop trying to get better. There's no easy way to fix your problems, but a good first step is identifying them and being willing to change. That's about as much as I can tell you. The rest you will have to practice for yourself - good luck!
 

Sonicninja115

Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
2,429
Okay, first off, it's good that you were critiqued for your tech skill. Being technical and understanding the mechanics of the game is not a bad thing, and is in fact very desirable. Yet technical skill won't win you tournaments, not if your fundamentals and mastery of the basic elements of the game are lacking.

I'll give you an example from recent experience. I play PM competitively, but right now it's just low-level stuff. I don't have much technical knowledge or expertise (I can barely even wavedash), yet I've done reasonably well in bracket in any tournament I've been to. I don't have much difficulty beating opponents that are much more technically skilled than I am, because most of the ones that I've fought have been relatively sloppy in their basic gameplan and it's very easy to download their style and thereby punish their mistakes. They can be winning for most of the game because they can wavedash and chaingrab 'til the cows come home, but ultimately their plan is predictable and they don't mix it up enough to keep me guessing. It's not difficult to punish that kind of straightforward thinking, especially when you play Ganondorf, a character who thrives on beating down people who make fundamental mistakes. Even so, I get bodied when I fight players that have both good fundamentals and in-depth technical knowledge - and rightly so. They know how to play the game and they can exploit my relative inexperience, because they have better techniques than I do, and most importantly, because they understand the fundamentals of the game. PM is a game where tech skill is very important, probably just as important as fundamentals, but you need both if you're going to succeed.

Tech skill is good if applied well and it's a necessary part of progressing to higher levels of competitive play, but you won't get very far with just that; especially in Smash 4, where tech skill isn't as important as being able to play the game consistently and creatively. So if you're being criticised for being too predictable and not mixing up your gameplay enough - well, that's good feedback and it needs to be addressed!

If you're being punished for being predictable, it's because you're doing the same things in the same way and your opponent is able to read that and punish you before you even do it; even more than that, your opponent will deliberately bait you into responding in a certain way just to get the punish. The more you respond in a certain way, the more you reinforce the pattern both in your head and your opponent's head, and that makes it more difficult for you to mix things up and easier for your opponent to punish you for it. You might approach the same way every time, you might be throwing out unsafe moves, you might be playing aggressively when defensive play is better, or vice-versa. Sometimes it's not a good idea to try to combo at every opportunity; often the best thing to do is to play patiently and set up for a different kind of option, especially if your opponent expects you to combo. Whatever you're doing, you're not doing enough to keep your opponent guessing. That's a dangerous habit to have and you won't do very well until you can fix it.

If you want to be less predictable, the first thing you need to do is evaluate your playstyle and be perfectly candid with your performance. Examine replays of your games and ask yourself: what did I do here that I got punished for? Did I try to approach in the same way or use the same moves in the same contexts? Do I use the same movement options too often? Did I use unsafe moves when a safer move would have been better? You have to be able to recognise your own faults before you can work on fixing them. You probably don't know intuitively what you did wrong, because your mindset within a match is very different to your mindset outside of it, so it's good to review your performance from an objective stance, divorced from the pressure and immediacy of the match itself. Get somebody else to review it for you if you have to. Just make sure you know what you're doing wrong first: you can't fix something if you don't know what the problem is!

The next thing you want to do is practice varying your gameplan and fixing the problems you've identified. This can be very difficult if you've become habituated to perform in a certain way, so it's something you're going to have to consciously try to fix. Go to training mode and set up certain conditions, then respond in a way that you wouldn't normally, and keep doing it until it becomes muscle memory. Then do the same thing and find a different way to respond to it. Play with friends and force yourself to try new things until you don't feel compelled to do the same habitual things you've been doing up to this point. If you notice yourself falling back into the usual unsafe rut, force yourself to take notice and then try to do something else next time. It can help to play different characters when practicing, as this will help you get a feel for different playstyles and force you to hone your skills in different ways - for example, if you have difficulty approaching, it might be good to play a character with a wide variety of approach options, or if you can't play defensively, you can play a character that wants to stay back and be patient. Don't dismiss your main entirely, but try to branch out and experiment with new things. Diversity can help you refine your skills in ways you wouldn't be able to with just the one character!

Then you want to get better at reading your opponent. There's no right way to practice reading and no magic formula to make you better at predicting your opponent's moves, but the best way I've found to refine your reading skills is to take it slow and consider what options your opponent has in any given moment. Think about how they've done things themselves and whether they will do the same thing now. Know the optimal way to punish and be prepared to do something different if they mix it up. Never get complacent in your reads: if your opponent predicts that you will respond to their move in a certain way (in other words, if they read the read), they can react differently to throw you off or, again, bait and punish. Being able to read your opponent is just as important as making it difficult for your opponent to read you.

Finally, practice. Play with other, better people, go to tournaments more, just keep playing and never stop trying to get better. There's no easy way to fix your problems, but a good first step is identifying them and being willing to change. That's about as much as I can tell you. The rest you will have to practice for yourself - good luck!
Well, that is the most helpful post I've read in a while. Thanks, I think Fundamentals aren't discussed nearly enough on Smashboards.
 

Pepmeistersi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 30, 2015
Messages
3
Hello everyone! I signed up this board to try and get some help with my training routine in Smash4 for Wii U.
I played Smash since the first installment before Meele came out. I think my peak of skill was at meele, where I played the most. Brawl I played a lot in the Story mode but in vs. I found it too slow. Now I have the Wii U version and some years have passed since I was good at the game... I get about 50% of techs right. But I haven't played for so long, that I cannot even beat a lvl 9 Cpu in a 1v1 without Items on an omega stage, when in meele I used to do 3 v 1 on them. (ok Meele was a different game with probably worse Cpu's but still). Now when I load up my Yoshi (which I want to main, cause he is in a good state at the moment and fun to combo with) vs a Level 9 Mario CPU, I get obliterated.

BUT here comes the catch , that only has been since a few days, where I tried to get better at the game. Since I try to learn combos and use them I got signifocantly worse at the game. And while I sometimes ko the enemy with some neat combos, most of the times the bot will just block my initiators, dodge rolls out if the way or grabs me before I can grab it... And now I am struggling... Do I try to get the combos down and loose over and over, or do I noob out and win more (even online).

I would like to know how you guys train theese things because the training mode doesn't cut it for me, I get the combos down there but woth shielding opponents that counter attack and predict your movements it is impossible for me to do atm.

Thanks in Advance!
 

Lady Kuki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
490
Location
US
NNID
PetraRal01
3DS FC
4854-7185-6306
Hello everyone! I signed up this board to try and get some help with my training routine in Smash4 for Wii U.
I played Smash since the first installment before Meele came out. I think my peak of skill was at meele, where I played the most. Brawl I played a lot in the Story mode but in vs. I found it too slow. Now I have the Wii U version and some years have passed since I was good at the game... I get about 50% of techs right. But I haven't played for so long, that I cannot even beat a lvl 9 Cpu in a 1v1 without Items on an omega stage, when in meele I used to do 3 v 1 on them. (ok Meele was a different game with probably worse Cpu's but still). Now when I load up my Yoshi (which I want to main, cause he is in a good state at the moment and fun to combo with) vs a Level 9 Mario CPU, I get obliterated.

BUT here comes the catch , that only has been since a few days, where I tried to get better at the game. Since I try to learn combos and use them I got signifocantly worse at the game. And while I sometimes ko the enemy with some neat combos, most of the times the bot will just block my initiators, dodge rolls out if the way or grabs me before I can grab it... And now I am struggling... Do I try to get the combos down and loose over and over, or do I noob out and win more (even online).

I would like to know how you guys train theese things because the training mode doesn't cut it for me, I get the combos down there but woth shielding opponents that counter attack and predict your movements it is impossible for me to do atm.

Thanks in Advance!
First of all, do NOT train with level 9 CPU. Their reaction time is near perfect; they will read all your inputs, and they will be generally hard to combo. If you want to practice combo and techs, then try fighting against CPU levels 3-6, maybe 7 if you're feeling confident; those CPU levels fight the closest to how an actual human would play.

Also, do you have any local tournaments in your area? Look them up and start going there to train weekly. You're bound to improve at places like those because you'll meet a lot of good players there. Besides, it's best to learn how to start fighting actual people, anyway. CPU teaches you a lot of bad habits that will only hinder your competitive play.

Hope this helps!
 

Pepmeistersi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 30, 2015
Messages
3
Well thank you! That explains a lot , lol. Unfortionately I don't have any tournaments here. Maybe I get an online friend or 2 through the for glory mode. Well I will try to play theese lvl6 CPU's then. I did not know, that they buff theese.
 

KaaaaasKop

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
14
I know the feeling, but just hang in there and slowly improve. You'll get better and it'll become more fun.

Just know that for glory and CPU are two completely different things that require very different ways of battling.
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
9,913
Location
Florida
Well thank you! That explains a lot , lol. Unfortionately I don't have any tournaments here. Maybe I get an online friend or 2 through the for glory mode. Well I will try to play theese lvl6 CPU's then. I did not know, that they buff theese.
There are tournaments pretty much everywhere. Try to look at the Regional Zones section of the forum and find something near you.
 

Kulty

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
786
Location
Krocodile Kore
Hi guys,

I've been playing this game for quite a year now since it first came out. I main:4mario::4sonic:, and I want to have fun secondaries (4 max.) that not only I enjoy playing or like them as a character, but secondaries that help me improve in Smash overall. Basically, I want to play different playstyles, because it will help me enjoy the game for much longer and I enjoy so many characters in Smash 4. I was inspired by Ninbuzz video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG8Nsv_QWVQ) to make this comment. For example, if I would pick someone like:4falcon:, I can learn how to play aggressively with him and implement it into my main characters. What FireMario149 said is that they're five types of characters that can be learned to improve in Smash:
1) Easy to pick up, teaches basic comboes and KOs, can rack up damage quickly (:4link:)
2) Adapting to different situations and teaches how to develop different playstyles (:4littlemac:)
3) Learns how to space moves correctly (:4dk:)
4) Using moves in unconventional ways and learn each moves special properties (:4ness:). I don't know what he means by that.
5) Basic all-around character without high learning curve (:4yoshi:)

However, the characters that he shown are not characters that I particularly enjoy except for :4dk::4littlemac:, but I think they are better options. Plus, since I know the game pretty well, I want to investigate more characters even if they are technical or have a high learning curve. For now, the characters that click the most to me according to these five points are according from my personal experience:
1) and 5):4falcon:: I feel he's easy to pick up, not as high learning curve, teaches basic combos and KOs, good damage output and can help me learn how to play aggressively, since I feel that I don't play too aggressive enough with my mains. And I think that Falcon can help me for that.
2):4shulk:: the first character that comes to mind when it comes to adapting to different situations and playstyles with his Monado Arts. Plus, I feel that Shulk's playstyle changes every time there's a different Monado Art on field.
3):4marth:: I can kinda put Shulk aspects 2 and 3 together, but I decided to pick Marth, because not only I mained him in Melee and Brawl, but I think he's the first character that I can think of that defines spacing to me due to his tipper.
4):4megaman:: maybe. I'm not sure about this aspect, but I feel that Mega Man's moves are so different that I need to learn what each move in his arsenal can do. Plus, like:4link:, he can rack up damage quickly.

Do you guys agree or disagree on this? Let me know. I need help for that. Overall, I want to improve in Smash by learning different characters and different playstyles and implement them into my mains (:4mario::4sonic:).
 
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phs_togusa

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
7
Location
Queens, NY
3DS FC
1693-2550-1336
The biggest problem I have at the current moment is the fact that I keep inadvertently killing myself upon recovery whenever I'm close to the ledge. I know ledge-snap is a thing but I'm just ever so slightly off and I can't snap back onto the ledge. I've also got trouble DI-ing in general in that I'm not sure if I'm DI-ing too late, too early, or what. On top of that, my edgeguard game is lacking. I know of ways to gimp people and ledge hogging, but I haven't quite worked out how to do that because every time I try to push my opponent off the ledge, I hop off the ledge, fall for a bit, double jump, and try to recover by I'm recovering in the direction opposite of the ledge and then I fall to my doom. I also try to go out and then stop my opponent from coming back with something like a nair or a bair with mario but I miss the timing and then I realise I'm too far out to return safely. Also, I can't seem to aim my projectiles right.

For the record, I'm playing as Mario for the most part, if that helps. I'm also playing on a standard 3DS XL (not the one with the C-stick).

Are there any general guides for Smash 3DS that you can link me to? Tips posted here in regards to my situation are also greatly appreciated.
 
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Wintropy

Peace and love and all that jazzmatazz~! <3
Joined
Aug 28, 2014
Messages
10,032
Location
Here, there, who knows?
NNID
Winterwhite
3DS FC
1461-6253-6301
The biggest problem I have at the current moment is the fact that I keep inadvertently killing myself upon recovery whenever I'm close to the ledge. I know ledge-snap is a thing but I'm just ever so slightly off and I can't snap back onto the ledge. I've also got trouble DI-ing in general in that I'm not sure if I'm DI-ing too late, too early, or what. On top of that, my edgeguard game is lacking. I know of ways to gimp people and ledge hogging, but I haven't quite worked out how to do that because every time I try to push my opponent off the ledge, I hop off the ledge, fall for a bit, double jump, and try to recover by I'm recovering in the direction opposite of the ledge and then I fall to my doom. I also try to go out and then stop my opponent from coming back with something like a nair or a bair with mario but I miss the timing and then I realise I'm too far out to return safely. Also, I can't seem to aim my projectiles right.

For the record, I'm playing as Mario for the most part, if that helps. I'm also playing on a standard 3DS XL (not the one with the C-stick).

Are there any general guides for Smash 3DS that you can link me to? Tips posted here in regards to my situation are also greatly appreciated.
When you say you keep dying, do you mean you don't make it to the ledge or you go too far and get punished for overshooting? I'm gonna presume it's the former, and that you're SDing by virtue of misjudging your recovery's potential.

It may be that you're not getting close enough to the stage before you recover. Ideally you want to keep your second jump to cover distance and not try to get back with just your up-b. The "magnet ledges" in this game are very forgiving and you'll grab onto the ledge if you're within a certain distance of it, so what you want to do is be close enough to the edge's sweetspot that you connect instantly. What I'd say in that case is, practice hitting underneath the ledge instead of trying to hit it directly. Most vertical recoveries, including Mario's, will "stick" to the underside of the stage and then instantly connect to the ledge when contact is made - be sure to hold the control stick towards the stage to ensure you auto-snap. It's very easy when you get the hang of it and practicing is even easier to set up: go to training mode and try it on a variety of stages with different undersides until you can auto-snap consistently.

Everything else just sounds like something you can fix by hitting training mode more. How often do you hit the lab to hone your fundamental skills, may I ask?
 

phs_togusa

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
7
Location
Queens, NY
3DS FC
1693-2550-1336
When you say you keep dying, do you mean you don't make it to the ledge or you go too far and get punished for overshooting? I'm gonna presume it's the former, and that you're SDing by virtue of misjudging your recovery's potential.

It may be that you're not getting close enough to the stage before you recover. Ideally you want to keep your second jump to cover distance and not try to get back with just your up-b. The "magnet ledges" in this game are very forgiving and you'll grab onto the ledge if you're within a certain distance of it, so what you want to do is be close enough to the edge's sweetspot that you connect instantly. What I'd say in that case is, practice hitting underneath the ledge instead of trying to hit it directly. Most vertical recoveries, including Mario's, will "stick" to the underside of the stage and then instantly connect to the ledge when contact is made - be sure to hold the control stick towards the stage to ensure you auto-snap. It's very easy when you get the hang of it and practicing is even easier to set up: go to training mode and try it on a variety of stages with different undersides until you can auto-snap consistently.

Everything else just sounds like something you can fix by hitting training mode more. How often do you hit the lab to hone your fundamental skills, may I ask?
Yes, I mean that I don't make it to the ledge. When I recover with Mario, half the time I end up falling to my death because Mario recovers in the opposite direction of the stage because I can't get Mario to face the right direction. I do get punished for overshooting every so often whenever I play against friends, but they're quick to point out that I shouldn't be going out too far after they spike me with Ganon or Falcon's dair. Anyway, thanks for the advice. I find that if I'm facing the opposite direction when I'm going back to the stage, using Mario's cape helps me face the right direction so I can ledge snap properly (and it also stalls me for a short time so I don't fall to my doom as quickly). I have been practicing recovering on my own for the last couple of days, but I still find myself screwing up the button combinations if I'm using Mario's cape to face the right direction and stall myself slightly.

When I started learning the fundamentals of Smash in mid-October, I spent about two weeks with my friends on Skype learning about the basics like aerials, shopping, fast falling, and all that stuff and then I was expected to practice on my own after every session we had. From that point forward, our Smash sessions were basically practice games to help reinforce what they taught me. I don't think I've been practicing as much as I should have, because I still fhop instead of shop whenever I'm in a real match every so often and I haven't been doing many shff nairs like they taught me to. Also, I still haven't quite worked out how to consistently use Mario's bair in a match, much less how to get it out frequently.

As of late, I've been hitting the Training booth with a Lv9 AI for at least an hour a day. I've gotten into the habit of practicing my fundamentals for the first half hour and then the second half hour is spent on actual combat because the friends who I practice with say that I shouldn't solely practice my fundamentals when the AI is just standing there because that leads to unhealthy muscle memory or something similar. I've also been trying to get a few rounds in on For Glory just so I have practice with other people, although my friends say that most people who play on For Glory are bad in general so I shouldn't do that TOO often because I might get into the habit of doing things that I really shouldn't.
 
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Wintropy

Peace and love and all that jazzmatazz~! <3
Joined
Aug 28, 2014
Messages
10,032
Location
Here, there, who knows?
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Yes, I mean that I don't make it to the ledge. When I recover with Mario, half the time I end up falling to my death because Mario recovers in the opposite direction of the stage because I can't get Mario to face the right direction. I do get punished for overshooting every so often whenever I play against friends, but they're quick to point out that I shouldn't be going out too far after they spike me with Ganon or Falcon's dair. Anyway, thanks for the advice. I find that if I'm facing the opposite direction when I'm going back to the stage, using Mario's cape helps me face the right direction so I can ledge snap properly (and it also stalls me for a short time so I don't fall to my doom as quickly). I have been practicing recovering on my own for the last couple of days, but I still find myself screwing up the button combinations if I'm using Mario's cape to face the right direction and stall myself slightly.
If you're facing the opposite direction, you're doing something wrong. Make sure you're holding the control stick towards the stage when you jump in case you're accidentally inputting it in reverse. Try not to rely on cape to recover, that can breed bad habits if you don't have time or space to recover without it.

Otherwise b-reversing is a thing. You shouldn't need to b-reverse an up-b, but the option is there if you do make a mistake.

As of late, I've been hitting the Training booth with a Lv9 AI for at least an hour a day. I've gotten into the habit of practicing my fundamentals for the first half hour and then the second half hour is spent on actual combat because the friends who I practice with say that I shouldn't solely practice my fundamentals when the AI is just standing there because that leads to unhealthy muscle memory or something similar. I've also been trying to get a few rounds in on For Glory just so I have practice with other people, although my friends say that most people who play on For Glory are bad in general so I shouldn't do that TOO often because I might get into the habit of doing things that I really shouldn't.
To be honest, I'd say you're better off practicing on For Glory if you have nothing else to do, since at least you'll be fighting human players. Don't do it too often, just use it to embellish what you've done in training.

Ideally you want to play with real people in a local setting. If you have tournaments in your scene, go there and play with others: the most effective and efficient way to get better is to keep playing in real matches until you develop good fundamentals and know how to play.
 

Kingu Crimson

Smash Rookie
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Ok, so I have this tournament coming up on the 7th, and I've been practicing combos and going on FG ever since I got back from Thanksgiving break, but online I am completely getting pummeled. I placed 15th on my first tournament ever and this is my second. I want to place better. How do I make my skills keener than they were before? I have the knowledge but execution is what I need to sharpen in real match situations. The only problem is, I really have no chance to smash locally.

Halp

Ps I main :4fox::4robinm::4ganondorf::4falco::4myfriends:
 

Jamble

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
135
It may seem like a non-answer, but in any Smash game, if your problem is execution then the thing you need to do is just do it. Make your dreams come true. You should get to the point where anyone else would quit, but you're not gonna stop there. Do it.

Get creamed in FG attempting your combos, setups, etc. You can test how different combos work in training mode a bit. The best way to practice execution is to field test the crap out of it on whatever you can. This applies for any character of any Smash really.
 

ぱみゅ

❤ ~
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Ok, so I have this tournament coming up on the 7th, and I've been practicing combos and going on FG ever since I got back from Thanksgiving break, but online I am completely getting pummeled. I placed 15th on my first tournament ever and this is my second. I want to place better. How do I make my skills keener than they were before? I have the knowledge but execution is what I need to sharpen in real match situations. The only problem is, I really have no chance to smash locally.

Halp
First, one week is nothing. Sometimes it is even good to take a break like that to get a different hold on how are you acting. In other words, you avoid autopiloting.

Second, FG is never a true indicative of good performance.
2.5, execution on FG will always be off.

So, the best way to practice execution is to, well, practice. Practice against dummy CPUs, Training Mode, Higher-level CPUs to be sure when they can airdodge, etc.
Also, when you attend the event, play as many friendlies as possible.
:196:
 

Kingu Crimson

Smash Rookie
Joined
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Messages
23
Location
Birmingham, AL
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I always keep a handwritten five star mini notebook Travel guide to record anything beneficial I find in Smashboards or in general, which is where I keep combos, adv techs, the neutral, etc etc. I practice at least 2-3 hours a day (not straight) by reading it and application in training and FG. I figured out two problems that could degrade my skill.
One, I think I've been infected with a case of bad muscle memory on account of training mode, most likely autopilot (Slippy-Watch-Out syndrome) any suggestions on fixing?

No. 2 is physical problems. My hands tend to sweat a lot in matches (which I'm sure is normal) and my 3ds is not in the best of shape. Broken right hinge bandaged with month old duck tape, and the rubber grip on my stick is gone. I could use some efficient fixes to these problems, because these are my biggest pet peeves when smashing.
 
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ShadowKing

Smash Ace
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User was warned for this post
What should I have my buttons set on my Gamecube Controller?
 

ShadowKing

Smash Ace
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Messages
676
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Germany
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3DS FC
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I always keep a handwritten five star mini notebook Travel guide to record anything beneficial I find in Smashboards or in general, which is where I keep combos, adv techs, the neutral, etc etc. I practice at least 2-3 hours a day (not straight) by reading it and application in training and FG. I figured out two problems that could degrade my skill.
One, I think I've been infected with a case of bad muscle memory on account of training mode, most likely autopilot (Slippy-Watch-Out syndrome) any suggestions on fixing?

No. 2 is physical problems. My hands tend to sweat a lot in matches (which I'm sure is normal) and my 3ds is not in the best of shape. Broken right hinge bandaged with month old duck tape, and the rubber grip on my stick is gone. I could use some efficient fixes to these problems, because these are my biggest pet peeves when smashing.
Same here with the hands sweating.Happens for me in intense matches.
 

ぱみゅ

❤ ~
Joined
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I always keep a handwritten five star mini notebook Travel guide to record anything beneficial I find in Smashboards or in general, which is where I keep combos, adv techs, the neutral, etc etc. I practice at least 2-3 hours a day (not straight) by reading it and application in training and FG. I figured out two problems that could degrade my skill.
One, I think I've been infected with a case of bad muscle memory on account of training mode, most likely autopilot (Slippy-Watch-Out syndrome) any suggestions on fixing?
Pick a day for training mode/CPUs, one day for FG, and one day for taking a break.
If you notice you're repeating something a bit too much then try to do something different.
Save replays and try to watch for you own habits.
Also, again, play as many offline friendlies as possible.


No. 2 is physical problems. My hands tend to sweat a lot in matches (which I'm sure is normal) and my 3ds is not in the best of shape. Broken right hinge bandaged with month old duck tape, and the rubber grip on my stick is gone. I could use some efficient fixes to these problems, because these are my biggest pet peeves when smashing.
Save up for a better controller.
I have nothing against a 3DS (it is actually my main training tool), but if it's in a bad shape it will only drag you down.
Get a new one, play a lot to get used to it, and that's pretty much it.
Overall, just keep on playing.

:196:


What should I have my buttons set on my Gamecube Controller?
You may want to ask here instead: http://smashboards.com/threads/controller-button-mapping-advice-thread.390033/
But a heads up, it's pretty much a matter of preference.
 
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thelustykhajiit

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
11
How do you freaking fight against a damn mewtwo. I self-destruct when ever i see this damn thing because im not fighting against that thing.
 

phs_togusa

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If you're facing the opposite direction, you're doing something wrong. Make sure you're holding the control stick towards the stage when you jump in case you're accidentally inputting it in reverse. Try not to rely on cape to recover, that can breed bad habits if you don't have time or space to recover without it.

Otherwise b-reversing is a thing. You shouldn't need to b-reverse an up-b, but the option is there if you do make a mistake.



To be honest, I'd say you're better off practicing on For Glory if you have nothing else to do, since at least you'll be fighting human players. Don't do it too often, just use it to embellish what you've done in training.

Ideally you want to play with real people in a local setting. If you have tournaments in your scene, go there and play with others: the most effective and efficient way to get better is to keep playing in real matches until you develop good fundamentals and know how to play.
Well, I don't have local tournaments afaik, so that's one option that I might have to rule out. I have been playing against the same friends who've been teaching me whilst talking to em on Skype (2 stocks, 6 minutes each; we alternate between random omegas and standard Dreamland 64/Battlefield) so that's about as close to a real match as I've had ever since I've been learning how to play Smash.

Also, in regards to my unintentional suiciding in regards to my recovery, holding the analog stick in the direction of the stage when I do my recovery really made a difference. Also, I noticed that whenever I did kill myself, I was hoding the analog stick slightly to the left when I did my Up+B, which meant that even if I was close to the ledge, I wouldn't auto-snap because my recovery ended in the opposite direction. I'm guessing it's one of those things that'll get better as I keep doing my thing on Training and playing more matches against high-level AIs and other people, right? On another note, I've been practicing my shop ff aerials in training along with my recoveries. It's annoying how sometimes I go into a fair instead of a nair when I'm trying to move around, but I assume that's something that'll change as I get the muscle memory down.

How do you freaking fight against a damn mewtwo. I self-destruct when ever i see this damn thing because im not fighting against that thing.
If you're playing a close-range melee fighter like Ganondorf or Ike, your approach options with Mewtwo are rather limited if I'm not mistaken. What specifically about Mewtwo gives you problems?
 

Sonicninja115

Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
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How do you freaking fight against a damn mewtwo. I self-destruct when ever i see this damn thing because im not fighting against that thing.
Mewtwo is a punishing character that relies on reads and space. If you are in his face, you are doing the right thing. His moves aren't terribly fast, and his only really close range option is Jab.

I assume you are playing Ike, so it is understandable. Mewtwo is a hard character to fight if you don't know the MU or how to punish him. Try Tipper Bairs as those will be pretty safe and will kill Mewtwo reliably at 60+.

Be wary of hitting his shield with an aerial. Nair and Fair are easily punished, and Mewtwo's punish game is about 2nd in the game.

Check out the Mewtwo boards for MU information. Look at what people are posting in the various MU threads, because although they might not be for you character, you can still learn what people dislike when fighting.

Example: The Mewtwo ZSS Mu is soooo annoying. ZSS is able to juggle us for days and it is almost impossible to get out of her combos...

From this you learn that Mewtwo's might have a hard time landing and that Mewtwo is easily hit by combos. (Large Size)

Also, remember to compensate for his low weight.
 

Kingu Crimson

Smash Rookie
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Speaking of difficulty fighting characters, how can I fight an advanced Lucas and Toon Link player? I've been having some trouble with these.

ps maining :4falco::4ganondorf::4myfriends::4robinm::4fox:
 

Sonicninja115

Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
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Speaking of difficulty fighting characters, how can I fight an advanced Lucas and Toon Link player? I've been having some trouble with these.

ps maining :4falco::4ganondorf::4myfriends::4robinm::4fox:
Try asking the same question in the Lucas and TLink threads, as you will probably get better answers.
 

Gavyn

Smash Rookie
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Messages
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How do I get rid of my bad rolling habit? Also, what are some Roy techniques/strategies I can use?
 

CHOMPY

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When you watch replay videos, do you watch yourself the whole time?

For example, do you

  • count how many times you tossed out smash attacks
  • how often you roll
  • when you jump whenever you land a hit
  • what option you use when your hanging from the ledge
  • usually land with an aerial
  • notice how you got killed
  • how often you spot dodge
  • pay attention to what you do when your opponent hits your shield bubble
  • dash shield (not that its a bad thing, but you don't want to do it too often when your opponent can run up and grab you)
  • notice how you landed the kills
  • how often you use the same moves
Those are the things you want to watch out for when watching the replay videos. If there is anything else I miss, please let me know.
 

Gavyn

Smash Rookie
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Messages
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I jump up from the ledge a bit too much, I'm BEGINNING to spot dodge instead, I usually go for a normal attack if it's a perfect shield or if it's outta my grab range, otherwise I usually go for grabs :) with Roy I toss his smashes a bit too much because they're so safe, and most of the time I land I land with an aerial.
 

Sonicninja115

Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
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and who counters mewtwo?
Not luigi.

Any top/high tier character with good offensive capabilities. Plus a smattering of the mid tiers.

You need to get in on Mewtwo.

Also, check out the Mewtwo boards, there are a lot of people that can help you there.
How do I get rid of my bad rolling habit? Also, what are some Roy techniques/strategies I can use?
Check out the Roy boards, as they should have a combo section and a mediocre metagame thread. Don't be afraid to ask them for advice there, as they will probably be the best help you can get for Roy.
 

Florem

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
2
I looked on the wikia for smash and it said shields were smaller and regenerated slower, but my friend said that they were stronger in this game than all the others. Is that true? And if it is why?
 
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Sonicninja115

Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
Joined
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Messages
2,429
I looked on the wikia for smash and it said shields were smaller and regenerated slower, but my friend said that they were stronger in this game than all the others. Is that true? And if it is why?
Your friend could be reffering to the fact that shields are a more important/larger part of this game, and not better technically.
 

Strider755

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OK, so I'm in a bit of a rut. I'm 0-4 on Anther's, and I'm afraid to challenge people for fear of sinking further. In addition, every loss is kind of difficult for me to handle - I take losses about as well as a wookiee or Vegeta.

So how do I get out of this rut? I get really upset after losing repeatedly, and no matter how much I practice, I just can't seem to get better. I know what tilt is, but I don't know how to get out of it. I want to be able to win locals, but I can't even get that good. In addition, I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong after a loss because I'm too upset to be able to think straight.
 

LightLV

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
748
git gud


Some people don't realize, the brain is an organ, and mental training is very similar to physical training. Playing the matches and getting the wins/losses is the training part, but the gains you're looking for form during rest, and i'm not only talking the 8 hours you sleep.

If you are playing so bad that you REALIZE you're making mistakes that you feel you shouldn't, you need to just take a break. If you're on tilt, to the point where you're actively getting worse, stop playing. You are doing yourself NO favors.

Take a break for 2 or 3 days, and come back. Hell, take a week off, do something else. You'll probably be doing noticeably better when you come back to it.


It may not be as noticeable in Smash, but to anyone who's trained hard to nail down a difficult combo or tech, it becomes way more obvious, how you can mentally struggle with something, not try it for an extended amount of time, and then come back and be marveled as your brain damn near does it automatically for you.
 
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