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Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

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Tobi_Whatever

あんたバカァ~!?
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i got a good tip, don't play ganondorf he is bad
Your post is bad and you should feel bad.

@FlameChokinMonkey the best player in my area is a Ganondorf main. He reads everyone like a book. Learn to read. Learn Ganondorfs combos and strings to maximize your reward (yes he has those) and learn which moves are safe to throw out. You should love uAir and uSmash for example.

But seriously, learn to read. Don't play on auto pilot. It's pretty damn easy to read FG players once you've got the hang of it.
Also one tip against projectile characters, don't ever approach when you have the lead. The average FG Samus/Link/whatever is unable to cope with that.
 

Unclesatan

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
137
Don't play FG. You can develop really bad habits if you do.
correction, if you already have decent+ fundamentals and are aware that bad habits can develop if you allow them, for glory is not a bad thing.

if you are new to the game and have lacking fundamentals, or are completely unaware that you can develop bad habits by playing against scrubs, then for glory will not help you one bit.

also considering the general player base of for glory has actually improved quite a bit. it's not often that i see a flow-chart link spammer or little mac side-b spammer anymore haha. i've also probably encountered at least 3 top players through for glory and got destroyed by them. for glory isn't a terrible thing.
 

BlueX

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correction, if you already have decent+ fundamentals and are aware that bad habits can develop if you allow them, for glory is not a bad thing.

if you are new to the game and have lacking fundamentals, or are completely unaware that you can develop bad habits by playing against scrubs, then for glory will not help you one bit.

also considering the general player base of for glory has actually improved quite a bit. it's not often that i see a flow-chart link spammer or little mac side-b spammer anymore haha. i've also probably encountered at least 3 top players through for glory and got destroyed by them. for glory isn't a terrible thing.
Though while i have not been playing FG recently. This does make sense if you do have good fundamentals and don't allow bad habits like you said so thank you for the correction :).
 
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Unclesatan

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
137
Though while i have not been playing FG recently. This does make sense if you do have good fundamentals and don't allow bad habits like you said so thank you for the correction :).
i hope i didn't come off as dickish, but i just do believe for glory can be a benefit if you go into it with the right mindset :D
 

Empoleon_master

Smash Cadet
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Somewhere in the EST time zone
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I don't want to come off as rude etc, by reposting/quoting but could someone please answer this question I'm super curious about it?
I don't want to come off as rude etc, but could someone
I don't know if this is new or something but there's a tiny flash of lightening that happens when ZSS uses her down smash, the position seems to be random. There are 3 positions for the lightening to be in: From just above ZSS to the center of the laser blast, above the center of the laser blast, and from the opposite of the first position I mentioned. I have NO clue if the lightening strikes have any different hit boxes etc or if this is all just aesthetic. I asked in the new member forum and even a forum mod didn't know, if someone that could somehow look into the files or whatever for the laser blast could answer this I would be extremely happy to read it as I'm super curious about it.

Edit: I don't know if this is a new discovery or not but I've never heard of anything like it. When I was battling in Lumios City against AI as Shiek I got hit to the point where it makes the slamming sound as you're slightly prone for a few frames to the platform I was thrown into I then in the process of hitting the platform some how bounced to the one below on my right that wasn't that far minus height wise. Note that when I landed onto the lower platform I was still in my slammed/prone state I just bounced mid air slam? I really don't know how to word that better.

Second edit: Do Sheik's needles on the ground do anything after they hit an opponent? It seems kind of weird that they would just put that little detail in and have it do literally nothing with the game.
 

Tayman

Smash Apprentice
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91
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south carolina
Your post is bad and you should feel bad.

@FlameChokinMonkey the best player in my area is a Ganondorf main. He reads everyone like a book. Learn to read. Learn Ganondorfs combos and strings to maximize your reward (yes he has those) and learn which moves are safe to throw out. You should love uAir and uSmash for example.

But seriously, learn to read. Don't play on auto pilot. It's pretty damn easy to read FG players once you've got the hang of it.
Also one tip against projectile characters, don't ever approach when you have the lead. The average FG Samus/Link/whatever is unable to cope with that.
Hahaha is was a joke you can play whoever you want

I'm a hopeless Ganondorf main. I'll play him until my wii u grows old and dies. I am pretty adept at Smash 4, I win about 40% of my matches. But that's not really good enough for me. I would like someone to help me get better at this game. Preferably another Ganondorf main, but I'll take anyone's help at this point. Playing Ganondorf, as you know, is stressful. But with his damage output, it can be quite rewarding. So I'd like some pointers, tips, or even some training in the game itself.
My NNID: Bahtmahn.
Anyway now that i'am done joking. Don't up smash and expect them to run in after that any player with knowledge knows that up smash has no lag and not to punish it. go to the character dissucion with gannon their you can learn along side gannon mains and you need to go to traning and test what you can do with him
 
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ぱみゅ

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A friendly reminder to avoid Double Posting, SPECIALLY of one of them is only to say loljk.
:196:

Empoleon_master Empoleon_master You mean the ones that are stuck on the ground? They are but a visual gag, this game is full of details like that.
As for the ZSS thing, you can try asking on their board.
 

L-Button

Smash Rookie
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This thread is extremely helpful, of course, it is a subjective observation from someone who impulsively bought a Wii U and Smash 4 two weeks ago after watching a VGBootcamp stream. Thanks for all the helpful comments in regards to bad habits, self-motivation and self-reflection -- and obviously the effects those things have on your playstyle. I feel more motivated than before to, well, how to put it -- kick ass in this game! xP. I would love to have a training partner, or a mentor at that, to practice with and learn from. Unfortunately, there is not much of a vibrant casual scene in my environment, just a bi-weekly tournament about half-hour drive from my house (which I'm extremely grateful for, since otherwise I'd have to take a train to another province where the scene is more active), so I lack anyone to really train with. I go on Anther's Ladder, and although I've met many people who are really good and helpful, it is not always as consistent as one might need in order to improve. Hence I wondered if any of you would like to take the burden of playing with an insufferably motivated noob who wants to get better at this game and hungers for advice like Pacman does for pac-dots? My NNID is Diicktionary (pun intended), react if you're willing I guess and we can add each other on Skype or something of the like. Thanks in advance!

Lbutton
 

BlueX

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This thread is extremely helpful, of course, it is a subjective observation from someone who impulsively bought a Wii U and Smash 4 two weeks ago after watching a VGBootcamp stream. Thanks for all the helpful comments in regards to bad habits, self-motivation and self-reflection -- and obviously the effects those things have on your playstyle. I feel more motivated than before to, well, how to put it -- kick *** in this game! xP. I would love to have a training partner, or a mentor at that, to practice with and learn from. Unfortunately, there is not much of a vibrant casual scene in my environment, just a bi-weekly tournament about half-hour drive from my house (which I'm extremely grateful for, since otherwise I'd have to take a train to another province where the scene is more active), so I lack anyone to really train with. I go on Anther's Ladder, and although I've met many people who are really good and helpful, it is not always as consistent as one might need in order to improve. Hence I wondered if any of you would like to take the burden of playing with an insufferably motivated noob who wants to get better at this game and hungers for advice like Pacman does for pac-dots? My NNID is Diicktionary (pun intended), react if you're willing I guess and we can add each other on Skype or something of the like. Thanks in advance!

Lbutton
I may be able to train with you and try to give you some advice as i am not very good at the game.

Also i am happy that you have found motivation to improving. :)
 

L-Button

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I may be able to train with you and try to give you some advice as i am not very good at the game.

Also i am happy that you have found motivation to improving. :)
Oh thanks man! Just add me on NN: Diicktionary and on Skype (for communication purposes that is): l-buttonsmash. Perhaps we can play some tomorrow if you have the time :)

P.S.: Anyone else interested in playing (and teaching/conjointly training), feel free to react, add me on something and let's go for it :D
 
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GHOST4700

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How can I improve my neutral game, what are the fundamentals of smash 4 and how can I improve my fundamentals?

I just feel I am lacking a bit in these areas? Some tips would be amazing.
 
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Nobie

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I have a small question: how do I maintain my composure and my precision in Wi-Fi lag? I know Wi-Fi doesn't really count, but I find that whenever I make mistakes due to lag, it really gets to me. I'll pummel one time too many, I'll miss more and more grabs, and I won't adjust in time to the input delay. Is there any solution to this, even if it's just a mental one?
 

LancerStaff

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I have a small question: how do I maintain my composure and my precision in Wi-Fi lag? I know Wi-Fi doesn't really count, but I find that whenever I make mistakes due to lag, it really gets to me. I'll pummel one time too many, I'll miss more and more grabs, and I won't adjust in time to the input delay. Is there any solution to this, even if it's just a mental one?
Sounds like you're just getting too riled up. Just need to accept that you can't be perfect online is all. Who do you typically play as online? Mewtwo? I can imagine he'd be frustrating to play... Megaman I wouldn't know. Regardless I'd make sure to use a character that doesn't require a ton of precision.
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
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how do you fight against ZSS. Once she lands that grab on me im dead
Don't get grabbed Kappa
Srsly though, rolling through ZSS is great.
Don't try to punish landing nair/bair, it won't work... instead, hit her during the rise of her short-hop.
DI Boost Kick and hope she guesses wrong.
 
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Funtroon

Smash Apprentice
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Quick question regarding the training mode. If I do a combo, say Puff''s uptilt twice on Fox and get the counter gives me: "2" does that mean that the double uptilt is a considered to be a true combo?
 

BlueX

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Quick question regarding the training mode. If I do a combo, say Puff''s uptilt twice on Fox and get the counter gives me: "2" does that mean that the double uptilt is a considered to be a true combo?
It should be considered a true combo yes.
 

CHOMPY

Sinbad: King of Sindria
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What is the best way to improve the bait and punish game? I wind up shielding in the hopes that they hit my shield and I can punish them for it.
 

Smudges

and we're back.
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What is the best way to improve the bait and punish game? I wind up shielding in the hopes that they hit my shield and I can punish them for it.
Tomahawks. That's an empty jump/ SHFF. You can choose whether to throw out an aerial attack or not, and it tricks them up. For example, throwing out Autocanceled back airs conditions the opponent into shielding. Then you can empty jump, fast fall, then rush in for a grab. Get it?
 

CHOMPY

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Tomahawks. That's an empty jump/ SHFF. You can choose whether to throw out an aerial attack or not, and it tricks them up. For example, throwing out Autocanceled back airs conditions the opponent into shielding. Then you can empty jump, fast fall, then rush in for a grab. Get it?
That part I understand. How do I condition my opponent into sidedodging, so I can land the fsmashes?
 

Smudges

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Actually, if you grab a lot, they either:
Keep getting grabbed (Like me :( )
Start sidestepping.

And once they start doing that, you can do stuff like go for pivot grabs, smashes, ect
 

MysteriousSilver

Smash Ace
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Quick question regarding the training mode. If I do a combo, say Puff''s uptilt twice on Fox and get the counter gives me: "2" does that mean that the double uptilt is a considered to be a true combo?
It should be considered a true combo yes.
That's not strictly speaking always true. Not only does it not account for DI, it reacts weird to certain moves (DK Side B, Mewtwo Side B) and will claim certain things are combos that are absolutely not real.
 

gamecubeguy214

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(Note: I was practicing perfect pivoting in Brawl, but I'm putting it here because perfect pivoting is considered a Smash 4 technique)
So I've been practicing perfect pivoting because it's something you need to know, but one thing that really got in the way is that my thumb gets tired whenever I do it. It feels like how my muscles feel all tired and painful when working out, but it's in my thumb. How do I get rid of this pain when perfect pivoting? Is it just something that you get used to after practice?
 

Drewthedude64

Smash Cadet
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I presume it's like normal exercise. Probably normal, just keep doing it and your thumb will have a six pack. It's safe to say you're feelin' it.
:4shulk:
 

Mr. ShinyUmbreon

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(Note: I was practicing perfect pivoting in Brawl, but I'm putting it here because perfect pivoting is considered a Smash 4 technique)
So I've been practicing perfect pivoting because it's something you need to know, but one thing that really got in the way is that my thumb gets tired whenever I do it. It feels like how my muscles feel all tired and painful when working out, but it's in my thumb. How do I get rid of this pain when perfect pivoting? Is it just something that you get used to after practice?
Don't know what to tell you man...
 

Ravine

Smash Journeyman
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Why the dark blue text over a dark grey background? I can't read that!! :sadeyes:

Its probably your muscles just getting used to it. If it persists for a while, then stop doing it as its probably doing more harm than good. If the pain is getting worse and extreme, see a doctor.
 

ぱみゅ

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If it's the same kind of pain as working out, as in directly in your muscles, you'll eventually grow past it.
Do dot confuse with a ligament pain, which might be similar but the result will not be, so if you notice the pain persists you really should see a doctor. If the pain is in the joint it definitely is not a good thing. Doctor.
Now, why would you practice with Brawl? Brawl's PP are way different in both input and function, so much that they were pretty much worthless in that game.
:196:
 

fps_trucka

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Does anyone else find them self too nervous to actually play matches? I recently got destroyed at a tourney and even at several smashfests and although I find myself doing better I feel like its getting harder to find the willpower to keep going. My anxiety about losing just keeps me from playing. Its been about 1 week since I've played and since then I've been studying up and watching streams but whenever I think about playing I convince myself not to. So basically has anyone experienced something like this and has tips on what to do? It would be very much appreciated -_-'' thanks all
 
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Quarium

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*At the end of the day, it's just a game.

*Keep your goals simple and analize options, don't think about losing or winning that much while you are performing.

What can I cover here? Do I need to keep stage control? Do I need to condition my enemy? Mixups? Play defensively?

Things like these should be running through your head as much as you can, and fearing of losing and anxiety for winning? as little as possible.

*Remember why you love this game, because it's a fun game! If you get angry people might see you in a bad light. But if you take it easy and show drive to improve, people will admire your resolve! At the end we all wanna have fun and improve!

*Feel good about things you manage to do correctly during a match and also try to appreciate whatever nice things your enemy pulls off instead of getting frustrated at it.

*Respect yourself and think you can always do better and frustration won't get to you.

*Respect your rival, their actions will frustrate you less and you might be able to analyze and correct yourself better because of it.

Smash it's a game of mindset as much as it is a game of skill, keep calm and smash on basically. Train your mind as much as your fingers.
 
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Babycowland

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I don't really play For Glory or go to offline tournaments, but I have experienced some of that anxiety before, mostly when playing online tournament matches. I ended up taking a break from playing online with people I didn't know well after that.

As for advice about how to deal with this stuff, I agree with pretty much everything Quarium said. I guess the only thing I'd add is that it may be worthwhile to seek out some folks who play Smash at your level, or even better, a bit higher than your level, who you get along with. That way you can practice in a more comfortable environment where the stakes won't be as high.
 
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Rinku リンク

Hero of "Likes"
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My best advice to you would be play to learn rather than win. If you can manage to put yourself into that type of vision it can only be an advantage for you regardless of your match outcomes.
 

The Shadow

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Ok, so as a player I feel like Smash 4 is the most frustrating game for me to play. When I play I don't feel the same rush I would in Melee or Pm because the defence in this game gets too far into my head.

When the game came out I was decent, but fell off as soon as people started to get more defensive. Sheik was my character, and covering my opponents options seemed easy! Now I feel like I have to be lucky or perfect to cover basic options, and I feel like quitting the game when I really don't have to!

Basically I want you guys intake on defense and covering it, like transitioning from Melee to Sm4sh. So I want to give some situations I struggle with handling.

1. Shield Grabbing or shielding as soon as I'm in the air.
2. Excessive rolling at the ledge or losing SC (Stage Control)
3. Rolling behind
4. How to beat a grab while in shield
5. Lost stage control on an edge-guarding situation because they roll, and getting f-smashed.

Any example or help will be great and fully appreciated! Videos especially help.
 
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Funtroon

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Just wanted to ask about the meaning a few terms. I've been visiting the Kurogane Hammer website for frame data stuff and lost in the shuffle for a bit there. What exactly do the following terms mean in the context of Smash Bros?

First Active Frames (FAF.)
Knock-back Growth.
Intangibility.
BKB/WBKB.
IASA frames.

Any help in explaining these terms will be much appreciated.
 
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Pazx

hoo hah
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Just wanted to ask about the meaning a few terms. I've been visiting the Kurogane Hammer website for frame data stuff and lost in the shuffle for a bit there. What exactly do the following terms mean in the context of Smash Bros?

First Active Frames (FAF.)
Knock-back Growth.
Intangibility.
BKB/WBKB.
IASA frames.

Any help in explaining these terms will be much appreciated.
First Actionable Frame - first frame you can act on after doing a move (eg. if a move has a FAF of 18 and you try to attack afterwards, your second attack animation will begin on frame 18).
Knock-back growth - how a move gets stronger as the victim's percentage gets higher.
Intangibility - this isn't really a smash term, "unable to be touched, not having a physical presence" from Google. Means you have no hurtbox and can't clank.
BKB - Base knockback. How much knockback a move has at 0%, before knockback growth.
WBKB - Weight based knockback, knockback that is calculated using the victim's weight.
IASA - how soon an attack is interruptable. (Interruptable as soon as). Effectively the same as FAF, although technically this is used when attacks can be interrupted before the animation is complete, whilst FAF can be used whether the first actionable frame is before the entire animation is complete or not.
 

ForteX

Smash Journeyman
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If you're decent at Melee, it should have taught you the skills you need to overcome these simple problems: put forth some reads, react appropriately, and use mindgames. Overly defensive play in Smash 4 will get you punished if your opponent is good.

Sheik should have no problem with most of this stuff:

1. If your opponent's holding shield and you feel the need to approach, just dash grab or pivot grab if you read a sidestep. Otherwise let them come to you, it isn't hard. If they keep holding shield like that, it's going to break. If they shield because you've left the ground, make the jump empty - it's a solid mindgame and a mostly lagless landing into a grab or a forward tilt is a good choice vs this. Sheik has good followups from her grabs, too. If I remember correctly, nair is safe on shield.

2. You're playing Sheik, you don't have to deal with this. Throw some needles and knock them off, run in for a ledge trump, bair. Or, throw needles and pressure their shield and force an approach. Honestly I've never seen that sort of thing outside of For Glory, and if you're judging your ability based on that hot mess of hell, stop.

3. Read.

4. Sidestep, jump, airdodge, jab (no grab armor in 4), grab first.

5. Look into ledge trumping. I can't believe I'm saying this, but watch Zero play some Sheik.

Honestly a lot of this just sounds like you're unfamiliar with the mechanics of the game. I went back and played Melee a few weeks ago for the first time since Brawl came out and it felt awful, so I can see how you might need a little time to get used to how things work now vs how they worked long ago. Search My Smash Corner or Beefy Smash Doods on youtube and watch some of their quality learning material, it'll help you with basics if you're lacking them.
 

The Shadow

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
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131
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Minnesota
Thanks!
In melee I play pretty amazing, my only Horrible weakness is shield-grabbing.

Also to clarify I used to play sheik but thank you so much anyways!

Edit: Yea I should adapt to the mechanics and play a little more patient.
 
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Jaeva

Smash Rookie
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Oct 11, 2015
Messages
8
I'm a Shulk and Pac-Man player. And while, Pac-Man is (from what I know) a bit more forgiving on spacing, Shulk's requirement of spacing is necessary in every single setup. I play 3DS, and I'm trying to get into how to space correctly. Tips?
 

Takehiko

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FoldedMachi
Smashkindomsk: "What you do to practice spacing is you go into training mode, and you stand as far as you can from the opponent and use your moves. This allows you to hit with the edge of their hitbox. And it'll let you know the length of your moves during a match." That's what he told me. Let me know if it helps you.
 

Smashifer

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Hey, first lemme say I wasn't sure whether to post this in this thread or the General Discussions thread, so if I'm in the wrong here, just move it to the correct area. If not then... yay.
Anyways, as the title explains, I feel like I'm becoming too predictable, no, I know I'm becoming too predictable, which is obviously the exact opposite of what I want to be.
It's everywhere on the defensive side, rolling, airdodging, shielding, and I just can't help it. It's become a habit, or worse, a muscle memory. I've counted many times where i shouldn't have airdodged but I anyways.
It's becoming aggravating seeing myself input an airdodge when I clearly shouldn't and getting read like a book.
So my question to propose to you is how exactly can I come over this? Thank you in advance.

EDIT: Alrighty thanks for moving this, I was on mobile when I made the thread so I missed this one.
 
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