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Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

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QuickLava

Smash Journeyman
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Somewhere in the Aether....
How do I force myself to start air dodging again? I've played Melee and PM for so long now that it just feels... wrong to air dodge. With the people I play against, air dodging is more or less instant death in Melee/PM so I've completely suppressed any urge to do so. How do I get myself to air dodge intelligently?
 

RESET Vao

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How do I force myself to start air dodging again? I've played Melee and PM for so long now that it just feels... wrong to air dodge. With the people I play against, air dodging is more or less instant death in Melee/PM so I've completely suppressed any urge to do so. How do I get myself to air dodge intelligently?
Study characters' options and the counterplay around them. If airdodging is the option you use to counterplay whatever strategy, then you airdodge.
 

JuanM

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Hey, guys. I'm pretty new to the Smash community. I played the games growing up, but I didn't know there was a competitive scene until a couple months ago. Anyway, I main Shulk and a few days ago, I played against a Falco that I couldn't beat. It mainly stood by the ledge and spammed lasers. I tried closing in by using speed and jump, but whenever I was close enough, they would just grab me, even as I attempted to spot dodge. I played a lot of matches against them and I lost. This is also applies to Link.
Is perfect pivoting an option I should consider? Right now, I can only pull it off 25% of the time.
 

Tdsholo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
7
Hey ppl! Questions about button maping here: If I map my Z to jump, how should I shield/roll? I always used R with my index finger, but now it's in the Z...I thought using my heart finger to R...but it just feels so uncomfortable.

Also, how do you guys advice to get used to the new config? I'm so used to jump with X or Y since brawl :__D
 

LilCappi

Smash Rookie
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Feb 3, 2015
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So I've recently started getting competitive in smash (smash 4 being my first) and wanted to start working on some basics and a problem I've run into is with pivot grabs. I can get about two to three in a row and then suddenly my pivots turn into tilts and I'm unsure as to why. If anyone could give some insight as to what is happening and how to help condition this out, it would help a lot.
 

Chiroz

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So I've recently started getting competitive in smash (smash 4 being my first) and wanted to start working on some basics and a problem I've run into is with pivot grabs. I can get about two to three in a row and then suddenly my pivots turn into tilts and I'm unsure as to why. If anyone could give some insight as to what is happening and how to help condition this out, it would help a lot.
It has mostly to do with timing. Depending on your timing of the Pivot->Grab you might get a tilt or a grab. At least that's what I think, I haven't looked too much into that. Others might know a little mote.
 

TheMkrds

Smash Rookie
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Oct 6, 2014
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7
i been playing a lot of 3ds anther's ladder and a lot of people and myself have noticed that i roll too much and roll exactly to be punish, so i want to get rid of that habit, so any tips or training techniques?




thanks in advance
 

dragontamer

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Play good players, they'll punish you every time.

Otherwise, rewatch your matches as often as possible. You yourself are probably one of your best coaches available to you.
 

Maraphy

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Challenge yourself into doing a whole bunch of matches where you're not allowed to roll EVEN ONCE. You'll get into the habit of different ways of moving.
 

TheMkrds

Smash Rookie
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Oct 6, 2014
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7
Challenge yourself into doing a whole bunch of matches where you're not allowed to roll EVEN ONCE. You'll get into the habit of different ways of moving.
i was thinking the same im going to try that

Play good players, they'll punish you every time.

Otherwise, rewatch your matches as often as possible. You yourself are probably one of your best coaches available to you.
i see a couple of them, the didnt aport much help in my rolling habit but they help me in my SH bair and then getting grabbed, thanks!
 

Nowayitsj

Smash Rookie
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Feb 4, 2015
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Warning: noob making this thread.

Hey I've been playing smash 4 for a few weeks and always watched/admired all the smash games all the way from 04 and loved watching Ken especially play, but never actually played seriously until smash 4 and now i'm trying to get into the competitive scene and get better, currently with marth/lucina.

The problem with this is that i'm extremely new and don't really know too much of what i'm doing (mainly up tilts for me seem to be hard, or basics in general) when i watch zero play lucina it seems so smooth and precise and he always lands all his combos, and when i try to imitate it I can't do anything he does lol, I don't expect to be as good as one of the best smash 4 players currently when i'm really new, but I'm not sure how I should start to getting better. Some people told me to go into trainning mode, but i'm not sure exactly what i'm supposed to be doing in training mode to learn, like what should I do to learn basics or practice/work on? Also if there's any tips in general or for marth it'd help a lot thanks!
 
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DoomedShogun

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Jan 30, 2015
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What are the Pros and Cons to keeping tap jump on or off?

Hi everyone! I'm new to the Smash Bros universe. I've never played melee and only played brawl maybe an hour or 2 every year. Smash 4 on Wii U is my first smash game that Ive strived to become good at. I've watched many tournament videos and character tutorials that have me heading in a good start.

That being said, back to the title question, what are the pros and cons to keeping tap jump on. I have it on right now but I almost never can use up tilts because of it. But I hear some pros are for tap jump so just want all the details. Thanks!

PS: I use a Wii U pro controller if that changes anything :p
 

AzurePhoenix01

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Can someone help me on getting into the competitive Smash scene? I would like to start participating in tournaments, but i dont know where to start. I win a lot in For Glory, but i know tournaments are a different story than online. Any help or general tips are appreciated. (I use 3ds/Gamepad as a controller)
 

Dalxp26

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What are the pros and cons between C stick set to smash attacks and C stick set to attack? ZeRo told me he has controller's C stick to attack. I'm curious because I use the default setting and i see ZeRo perform those long range side b (instead of normal range) attacks with Diddy Kong and I want to do the same but I dont know how.
 

CrazyPerson

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436
Can I get a detailed explanation/video of DI?]

Do I need ot time the tumbstick moment or does holding it in a direction do the trick:?
 

HeroMystic

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Lots of posts with no answers. I'll fix that.

Warning: noob making this thread.

Hey I've been playing smash 4 for a few weeks and always watched/admired all the smash games all the way from 04 and loved watching Ken especially play, but never actually played seriously until smash 4 and now i'm trying to get into the competitive scene and get better, currently with marth/lucina.

The problem with this is that i'm extremely new and don't really know too much of what i'm doing (mainly up tilts for me seem to be hard, or basics in general) when i watch zero play lucina it seems so smooth and precise and he always lands all his combos, and when i try to imitate it I can't do anything he does lol, I don't expect to be as good as one of the best smash 4 players currently when i'm really new, but I'm not sure how I should start to getting better. Some people told me to go into trainning mode, but i'm not sure exactly what i'm supposed to be doing in training mode to learn, like what should I do to learn basics or practice/work on? Also if there's any tips in general or for marth it'd help a lot thanks!
In Training Mode, pick Marth or Lucina, and practice any guaranteed combos (check the Marth/Lucina boards for this. From what I know they're very good at keeping data for this) and just get used to your character. Practice with movement, and just let yourself become one with your character. For many newcomers, especially when I first started playing competitively, a lot of people neglect this part of the stage and just go in swinging, then can't figure out why they've lost. In general, training mode is used to learn what works and what doesn't with your character.

For Marth/Lucina, use Up-B OOS (Out-Of-Shield) a lot. It's an excellent way to negate offensive pressure off you. Control your movement with those characters, as that is his/her best tool against the cast.

What are the Pros and Cons to keeping tap jump on or off?

Hi everyone! I'm new to the Smash Bros universe. I've never played melee and only played brawl maybe an hour or 2 every year. Smash 4 on Wii U is my first smash game that Ive strived to become good at. I've watched many tournament videos and character tutorials that have me heading in a good start.

That being said, back to the title question, what are the pros and cons to keeping tap jump on. I have it on right now but I almost never can use up tilts because of it. But I hear some pros are for tap jump so just want all the details. Thanks!

PS: I use a Wii U pro controller if that changes anything :p
Tap Jump ON
-Up-B OOS is much, much easier to do.
-U-Smash OOS is much, much easier to do.

Tap Jump Off
-Freedom to hold up your control stick without using a jump/double jump.
-...That's about it.

Honestly, it's all preference and character-related. I played with both Tap Jump On and Off, and the way how I played Mario didn't change much at all. However, to use OOS options you need to "jump cancel" in order to use it (Up-B OOS and U-Smash are impossible to do without it. You'll have to drop shield first which is laggy), so if you have Tap Jump Off, you need to use the jump button, then Up-B/U-Smash/U-air, and that can make you fumble with your controller quite a bit (I used to have Jump assigned to L-Trigger due to this). I find Tap Jump on to be preferable because of this. But again, I play Mario. If you play... Ike, then he doesn't care about Up-B OOS or U-Smash OOS.

Regardless though anything you can do with Tap Jump ON, you can do with Tap Jump OFF as well, and same thing vice versa. It truly is just a preference. If you have trouble using U-tilt with it on, just control your thumb better.

What are the pros and cons between C stick set to smash attacks and C stick set to attack? ZeRo told me he has controller's C stick to attack. I'm curious because I use the default setting and i see ZeRo perform those long range side b (instead of normal range) attacks with Diddy Kong and I want to do the same but I dont know how.
Smash Stick is pretty weird (and dumb) in this game.

Techs suchs as (Perfect) Pivot F-Smash/D-Smash/U-Smash, (Reverse) Jump Canceled U-Smash, and SDI are much harder if not outright impossible to do without Smash Stick. However, Nintendo poorly programmed Smash Stick so that if you hold a direction on the C-stick, it actually negates your movement on the analog stick. This makes your aerial movement much more finicky.

With Attack Stick, you get that freedom of aerial movement back, but at the same time you sacrifice a lot of ease to do the techniques stated above. I personally have Smash stick on and flick the C-stick instead of holding it down.
 

Dalxp26

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thanks for replying so quickly but do you have any advice on Diddy's side b short and long range moves? I can only perform the normal (short) range side b and im having trouble figuring out how to do the long range side b

http://youtu.be/TwOEjPJWxQM?t=6m48s this should explain
 

HeroMystic

Legacy of the Mario
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thanks for replying so quickly but do you have any advice on Diddy's side b short and long range moves? I can only perform the normal (short) range side b and im having trouble figuring out how to do the long range side b

http://youtu.be/TwOEjPJWxQM?t=6m48s this should explain
It's probably because the difference isn't all that noticeable. There's another character who does this as well: Samus.

Pick Samus, use Side-B by tilting the stick gently. She'll use a homing missile.
Now, use Side-B by smashing the stick and hitting B immediately after. She'll use a super missile.

Diddy Kong's Side-B works the exact same way.
 

CrazyPerson

Smash Journeyman
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Jan 3, 2015
Messages
436
Directional Influence... can someone explain some details on that?

Is it a quick flick of the thumb stick to change it? Or does holding it in the direction where I want to go (or at least away from the direction I don't want to go) work?

Any single play3r ideas on how to practice it? Stupid computers seem to play really defensively.
 

Dalxp26

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It's probably because the difference isn't all that noticeable. There's another character who does this as well: Samus.

Pick Samus, use Side-B by tilting the stick gently. She'll use a homing missile.
Now, use Side-B by smashing the stick and hitting B immediately after. She'll use a super missile.

Diddy Kong's Side-B works the exact same way.
Thank you and I also figured it out today!
 

visvim

Smash Apprentice
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Directional Influence... can someone explain some details on that?

Is it a quick flick of the thumb stick to change it? Or does holding it in the direction where I want to go (or at least away from the direction I don't want to go) work?

Any single play3r ideas on how to practice it? Stupid computers seem to play really defensively.
Regular DI changes the direction and distance you will travel when hit and can be performed by holding a direction on the control stick during the freeze frames or hitlag of an attack (think of when Falcon's knee sweet spots and the characters both are stuck momentarily) or just after. You can DI in any direction and for a number of purposes, but on the most basic level, it's used to survive hits that would normally KO you if you didn't adjust your trajectory.

The rule of thumb is to DI perpendicular to the direction the attack is sending you in, aiming towards the furthest corner of the screen from the blast zone you're heading towards. On the simplest level, if you're being hit horizontally, hold the control stick diagonally up (left or right) in the opposite direction in which you're being hit and if you're hit straight up, hold left or right. You can use the same technique to get out of being combo'd by holding a direction as you're being thrown, juggled, etc.

DI's a very situational, reactionary thing, so It's best to practice against other opponents. You can get the fundamentals of the tech itself down by playing a CPU and remembering to hold the stick in whichever direction when hit, but knowing how and when to use it changes from game to game, so it's best to get as much one-on-one human experience as you can.
 
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Shin Chie

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Warning this is probably a noobish post lol.
But I've been into competitive Smash for a few months. When Smash 4 I started trying to get good. I've seen improvement since I started playing Sm4sh. But I feel like I've hit a brick wall in training. I feel I have gotten worse in the past few days. I've been trying to train but I don't know if it's working. I was wondering what I should do? Like am I training wrong? I normally try messing around in training mode with my mains and then I do things in For Glory. I don't really have a practice partner. Again, sorry if this is noobish. Thanks for reading.
 

Gunla

wow, gaming!
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Warning this is probably a noobish post lol.
But I've been into competitive Smash for a few months. When Smash 4 I started trying to get good. I've seen improvement since I started playing Sm4sh. But I feel like I've hit a brick wall in training. I feel I have gotten worse in the past few days. I've been trying to train but I don't know if it's working. I was wondering what I should do? Like am I training wrong? I normally try messing around in training mode with my mains and then I do things in For Glory. I don't really have a practice partner. Again, sorry if this is noobish. Thanks for reading.
Some good things I can give pointers to:
Sometimes you will hit training or general days where it is a slump, whether it's burning yourself out or you just can't really warm up well. It does happen on occasion. Onto the second part...

For Glory, despite the fact that you are getting to face others, has it's problem of the input lag and the fact that it's FD-only, things that will inhibit a player eventually. I recommend going and individually checking out things like the NNID sharing thread (for finding other players), specific character boards to find other players online to practice in friend matches, or the best thing, the Regional Zones board if you're looking to potentially find some people in your area to meetup on occasion.
 

HeroMystic

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Along with what @ Gunla Gunla said, I highly recommend Smashladder.com over For Glory. The quality of players there are more consistent.
 

TimeMuffinPhD

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So I've started playing this game as a side whenever I'm at an event for PM/Melee and I'm wondering how I can get better at this. Currently I've taken a liking to Diddy, but I'm wondering what's the most important tech to learn and common mistakes to eliminate - especially when transitioning from PM and Melee. I've found myself not being able to punish things aswell, I'm assuming this is because of the lack of movement options (killing seems quite hard also). I'm sure a few people are in the same position as me, appreciate any tips and critique cheers.
 

PCHU

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I've been a Melee Fox/Falco for a few years, so I get how weird the change in style is.
You're basically gonna have to base your style around setting up a great defense and reading your opponent as hard as possible, since there are very few blockstrings/general things you can get away with to aid aggressive play (then again, you're Diddy, so I don't know how relevant this is).
The name of the game is play safe; if you don't feel like something will work, don't do it until you think it will.
Sounds simple, but it might take some time before you fully get what I mean.
 

Epok

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I've been a Melee Fox/Falco for a few years, so I get how weird the change in style is.
You're basically gonna have to base your style around setting up a great defense and reading your opponent as hard as possible, since there are very few blockstrings/general things you can get away with to aid aggressive play (then again, you're Diddy, so I don't know how relevant this is).
The name of the game is play safe; if you don't feel like something will work, don't do it until you think it will.
Sounds simple, but it might take some time before you fully get what I mean.
I agree. The neutral game is very important learing to bait and and have options after your offense is very important. Also you have more options out of shield now. So you don't always have to jump or roll. Especially when you power shield.
 

Octagon

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Rolling is great in this game, but don't overuse it...then you die. Personally its a lot less offensive than melee, so it takes a little different mentality
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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didn't say to do it predictably, I said to do it more than he does in melee.
Sure, but it's not really what someone should practice as much as getting good reads on your opponent.

I think in Smash 4 the best thing to practice is knowing how to respect and read your opponent.
 
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hype machine

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Just a few tips, You should try and learn about frame trapping. And diddy kongs best punish is his down throw to up air. Also space out your opponent with sh fair. Also jab resets are important as well but I don't know if diddy kong is good at setting those up
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Just a few tips, You should try and learn about frame trapping. And diddy kongs best punish is his down throw to up air. Also space out your opponent with sh fair. Also jab resets are important as well but I don't know if diddy kong is good at setting those up
the bolded is extremely important. I would also recommend you learn this.
 

Ulevo

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Know your opponents safe neutral options and your neutral options, and what your hard read answers are versus theirs. That will determine the flow of how your matches go. This will change from match up to match up.
 

Big-Cat

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Shield and roll a lot more. Don't approach if you have the lead.
This is partially true. If you're in the lead, you can stick to safer options to keep the damage difference. That being said, if you're gonna not forcibly approach at least zone the opponent big time.

A big thing in this game is for you to give the opponent as few options as possible. A lead isn't just the damage difference. It can just be being closer to the center of the stage.
 

Tipper_of_scales

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Learn to walk instead of dashing. Easy to make fake-outs into a smash attack. Not diddy specific, but works in genearl
 

TimeMuffinPhD

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Just a few tips, You should try and learn about frame trapping. And diddy kongs best punish is his down throw to up air. Also space out your opponent with sh fair. Also jab resets are important as well but I don't know if diddy kong is good at setting those up
I think Diddy's jab is meant to be horrible, it's not meant to knock them down or something.
 
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