G3S Mafia | Day 4 starts | Deadline: 1st Feb [11:59pm CET]

[#HBC | ZoZo]

^Agreed. Looking into Washed connections is a pit of WIFOM that even I don't want to dive into.

 

[Axel]

Vote: Gorf

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

RR, what do you mean WL left connections with scummates?

WL had no scummates. He was town-aligned and knew of the mafiaso members, but the mafioso members did not know him. In order to draw any connection from him you would have to know what his intent and gameplan was going into the game. Otherwise, the connection is subjective.

The thing is he did even if they didn't. He knew who mafia was and is mafia himself.

The only part that is near impossible to see is the intent of the people on his wagon because mafia didn't know he was mafia.

I'm going to look in and document it reguardless if people think it isn't worth looking into. Even with inactives I can draw something from what he posted.

 

[Omni]

RR, WickedLaundry was not mafia; he was town-aligned.

 

[Axel]

RR, WickedLaundry was not mafia; he was town-aligned.

That's just with regards to investigate roles and mafia-town ration. He still had the mafia win condition and knew who the mafia were. You are so interesting mate.

 

[Axel]

EBWOP:
investigate > investigative
ration > ratio

 

[Inferno3044]

The Chaco replacement thing was the dumbest thing I've read so far. There is no point in finding the right answer nor is there any benefit to it. Stop discussing it.

Normally I would say let's search for connections, but unfortunately we don't have that due to WL flipping traitor. Of course we have to note that there was no kill. Now I'm not sure whether that means the NK was protected in some way or if it's something else. I know some people will specifically state that nobody died and others won't. I don't know how Gheb is. Anyways I'm still fine with either a Brosuke or Filipe lynch atm but let's see what happens today.

Vote: Gorf

Care to explain the reason behind this vote?

@KevinM - Give us some of your thoughts. Who would you lynch right now?

 

[Axel]

Care to explain the reason behind this vote?

Read my posts before the night phase.

Are you ****ing kidding me, Bardull?

Omni I'm very confused as to why you reacted this way. The deadline was just in a few hours. Why were you so upset?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Why is it odd?

Repeat for Axel.

The Chaco replacement thing was the dumbest thing I've read so far. There is no point in finding the right answer nor is there any benefit to it. Stop discussing it.

This is rubbing me the wrong way. I even had you as town in my reread.
Above all this is useless and seriously fluff.

 

[Omni]

That's just with regards to investigate roles and mafia-town ration. He still had the mafia win condition and knew who the mafia were. You are so interesting mate.

Oh, you're right. So, an investigation on the Town Traitor would come up as "Town". However, he was flavored as Mafia. Gheb's wording confuses me a bit. Kinda' use to flips ending with a player slot having their name bolded and in the specific color of the faction they matched.

Omni I'm very confused as to why you reacted this way. The deadline was just in a few hours. Why were you so upset?

Both Brosuke and myself said we'd be here for the hammer, but I wanted to wait longer to here any kind of input from Chaco and more input regarding Felipe from the rest of the cast.

I'm very surprised people haven't looked more into Felipe's play. It's been god awful. Especially the last comment that he made. What do you think about his play, specifically, the remark he made at the end of Day 1 that I commented on?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Man you guys love to be invisible.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Omni, you have to consider Felipe's meta. I'm including him in my post, as a town lean.

 

[Axel]

Why is it odd?

The reason it stuck out is because before that point you had been pretty much making basic posts, like one lined thoughts without much elaboration. So it was odd that you had so much elaboration on Laundry, with it resulting in a wishy washy stance. This doesn't concern me anymore though seeing that mafia didn't know Laundry was scum. This connection was only relevant in the event that Laundry flipped mafia.

I'm very surprised people haven't looked more into Felipe's play. It's been god awful. Especially the last comment that he made. What do you think about his play, specifically, the remark he made at the end of Day 1 that I commented on?

I have a town/possible indy read on him. I've never played with him before, but I read that he comes from Epic Mafia, which says a lot about the way he has been posting. I forgot what specifically gave me a town read. I'll have to look back at some point, but he's not someone of interest to me at the moment. In any event I do agree that he is a liability and I want to see more from him, but pressuring a town read solely for those reasons doesn't seem like a very efficient use of time. The last remark I didn't like (I think you're talking about his vote, yes?). Though I would have seen it as more suspicious if Laundry flipped regular mafia. In that even it would have looked pretty bussy.

 

[Omni]

I mean, yeah. I have no meta on Felipe, but I'd hate to think that he's going to just fly by due to meta. His play is really bad. If he is town, he will be kept alive, and if he's scum he will just sit on his thumb to victory.

If anything I'd want to get a claim from him and hopefully a lynch.

Hm.

@Soupa: Who's in your hightlights at the moment and why?

Really anxious to hear from Chaco/Kevin's slot.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

1. Inferno3044*

Spoiler

Not accomplishing much. Recurring theme [Not scumhunting, but trying. Don't know if trying seriously or just putting up a facade. Up to personal skill level interpetation. Giving him the noob card would place him town, respecting him as a good player would place him scum.] No direct reaction to RR's gambit. Not using his vote on me. (+town) Quick to follow opinions, restates a lot of statements. Once again, this is something that can be excused with the noobcard. #306 & #307 are lovely. Like it. Seems to follow the bad town meta he played in UTrick'd. (See #326)
His hyperfocus on me is unsettling. Hyperfocus is one of the main scum tells in my list. It allows consistency and a way to do stuff, without necessarily going anywhere.
Man 384 seals it. I'm accepting Inferno as a town buddy. Inferno, should I give you the noob card?

2. KevinM

Spoiler

Funny note; #111 by Chaco has some conversation between Omni and him. Nothing special, though. Overall, sitting on a grand total of 5 posts, this slot is as null as nulls get. I could go on about how he didn't comment on Red Ruy but eh, he posted only one good post.

5. Soupamario*

Spoiler

Nothing but confirmation of town-being. That said, I have no knowledge of scumSoup. On a side-note, when is that hydra of yours ever starting up?

11. Sworddancer*

Spoiler

Nothing but confirmation of town-being.

6. felipe_9595

Spoiler

#394 and half of #421 seriously point me towards town. Other half of #421 says scum to me. Or badtown. Ugh. #439 says town. Leaning town overall. Welcome to the club.

12. Axel

Spoiler

Man I love this guy's playstyle. I'm gonna try to keep that bias aside though. I remember him not taking my vote bait, which I like, but that's a vibe and WIFOM in essence.
Not happy with J's #228. His suspicion of Swords is weird. The way he considers RR and Omni town and calling me Scum would be a really powerful position for scum to take, as both RR and Omni are really active. But that's J...

Enter Axel. I really can't see him as scum. *shrug* He's on my supertown list.

7. Bardull*

Spoiler

First few posts reasonably null...
#333 part 1 unsettles me. No read on Omni yet, no read on RR. "possible slip" by Soup? Eh. But what he does give is a town lean on Gorf, referring to 1 post.
Part 2 is pretty okay.
Rest of his post is unsettling as a whole to me. "Don't understand Swords getting weird vibes from Omni's posts. Not sure how to read this." "You're probably scum. Omni is probably Town. Maybe. "

#353 is pretty okay. I don't like how easy he converts to the popular opinion of RR town and scumXonar though.

#380 makes me mad as he's getting an Axel scum vibe for not agreeing with his Omni read... Which he never explained.

#398 "I want to hear from others about Brosuke, Axel, WL, and general reads." offsetting. Besides that, it's fine.

#506 is unsettling because he's so eager to join Omni's on inactives. I don't know, but I smell free lynches for scum here. But eh, it might be because of his game views. "General pressure towards inactives is good, but we still have some other things to do before we outright kill them off." Makes up for it... kinda. He does set himself up to go on inactives.

9. Red_Ryu*

Spoiler

asd

10. Omni*

Spoiler

asd

4. Gorf*

Spoiler

asd

Last three not done yet, but frankly, I'm sick of reading this thread. I've reread on three separate occasions today already and once for every player I've commented on. The last three are the most controversial ones, too. I kinda want people not to comment too much on them before I'm done (inb4 I'm waiting for the general opinion to follow), but I can't outright stop it.

Soup/Sword/Inferno/Felipe/Axel are not of much concern for now. Bardull, RR, Omni and Gorf might be. KeviM possibly.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I suck at hunting indy. In the end they hunt scum just like town, ugh. Any pointers on what to look for when looking into an indy?

 

[Omni]

Don't try to look for indy at all. Just look for scum in general.

 

[Inferno3044]

@Brosuke - The reason I don't like the Chaco replacing talk is because it literally doesn't get us anywhere. You and Omni can talk about what you think, but in the end it reflects nothing of his alignment so there's no point searching into it. Especially if there's no way we can get a definitive answer. Looking over myself yeah I'll admit I definitely have put a lot of focus on you. The reason was because your play hasn't settled well with me and I don't wanna let the idea slide. But I'll bite. Who do you think I should take another look at?

Also I don't want to receive the noobcard. I want to be at a level that I shouldn't be given it and the fact that people always try to use it on me is kind of insulting.

 

[Omni]

Then stop asking people who you should look at.

 

[Omni]

Reread that. That came off as mean, but it wasn't meant to be at all.

But it's true. My stance of you falls within the same of Brosuke'. If I were taking you like a heavier candidate I'd most likely have you as scum at the moment as well. Right now you simply wreak of inexperienced or slightly inexperienced townie.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Welp Omni, I'm starting to find you in a lot of things today.

Mhm...

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Inferno would you say that Omni is tailoring his posts to appeal to me?

Gorf, you can answer that after Inferno has answered.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Also people who asked Gheb about traitor still should speak up.

 

[Omni]

Welp Omni, I'm starting to find you in a lot of things today.

Mhm...

?

Inferno would you say that Omni is tailoring his posts to appeal to me?

Gorf, you can answer that after Inferno has answered.

I'll answer for both of them. No. You're just not being an ****** toDay.

 

[Omni]

*** hat. All those *****'s make it seem really awful.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You understand that Inferno and Gorf are probably both biased towards you and have the highest probability of just telling me I am paranoid?

I'm getting some active thinking out of Inferno and maybe a good read. Then there's maybe Gorf who can tell me some thing or two about you.

 

[Omni]

Oh, I see. I'll stfu for a bit.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

[collapse=every post WL made this game with labels for connections]

Oh hi guys, reading up now.

Null, no connections.

Also, before I start reading, I've seen one guy post in thread already.

vote: Soup

RvS poke at Soup, it's still an interaction. +1 Soup interaction.

I've been playing mafia for probably a good three years now, on and off because of school and activity shenanigans over at AiB. If I were to have a scum partner I could choose manually, I'd choose Ryker.

Answering Omni's question, doesn't count though since he didn't push it himself.

It's pretty obvious Red Ruy.

Interaction with me. He offered it so it counts.

Soup interaction again.

I dunno who I'd point you towards yet. The only thing with meat has been Red RuyvOmni and there's not enough there to tell if this is Red Ruy being dumb or not. I'd point you away from Omni though, his intentions seem pretty crystalline. That could change but for the moment, he's alright.

Seems to defend Omni right off the bat, remember this is where he was doing it for no reason.

Inferno interaction though, doesn't count too much since he didn't initiate it.

I'm struggling immensely to believe such a ****ty gambit and it looks like I'm not the only one to be in this boat.

More interactions with me.

i don't agree with this standpoint yet. i'm all for not waiting until deadline but the game literally just started and red ruy's ******* tendencies are not enough to say that there's no one else out there i want to lynch more.

More at Omni, is quick to put me on the lynch pool. But this is valid based on what I did.

Thoughts on the game thus far:

Soup is being more helpful than I anticipated and while I will almost naturally have my eye on him the rest of the game, I think he's actually alright right now. It certainly beats him being stupid out of the gate and staying that way for a majority of the game.

unvote

I refuse to comment on Gorf v Inferno at the moment. Get back to me on this but I think Gorf's not done yet and I want to see him push down the road a little more.

Red Ruy v Omni is strange. I don't think there's enough here to tell if Red Ruy's being dumb or not (albeit the whole "lynch me, lynch Omni" thing is plenty stupid). Omni's playing a town game thus far. We're not lynching yet--I want to hear out of Chaco and more out of Brosuke first before I'd even put a bandwagon at L-2 yet--but I think out of everyone that's posted thus far, I like Red Ruy the least.

vote: Red Ruy

As for the rest of RVS, Swordy is okay, Gorf is surprisingly active for declaring V/LA, and I can't really remember anyone else posting. I think I remember Bardull and Bronar vaguely being here, and Felipe showed up at one point but they haven't done anything of merit. Chaco has yet to post.

Stances I see here.

I noted them below.

Defends Omni with a pro town sentiment, dislike Ruy. Likes Soup and Swordancer.

So yeh, hi guys. WashedLaundry's in the game.

Catch up here.

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck it's the aladdin card gogdammit

Joke comment at Chaco, noted.

So what do you think of RR's sudden switch in playstyle now that he's been called on it?

Approaches Chaco on this, Noted as an interaction from him that is serious.

Show me the scum intent.

Interaction to me that defends Omni again.

Simple: his objectives aren't scummy while giving me enough of a stance to say he's not null.

Yes, some of his actions have pointed to null behavior. Saying "**** RVS," going after inactives, his first few posts in the game, they're null. But he came in here with a motive not to let RVS last longer than he intended. He pulled it off. He's called you on **** and actually went after you. He's not beating around the bush, like some players are (hi felipe, inferno to an extent), he's actually moving the game along in directions that could benefit town. I don't exactly agree with this "hey let's lynch RR now" thing, but that's the only issue I've had with him since the game began.

It's not strong, no, but it's the 4th page of D1. Nothing is really substantial at this point. I'm pretty sure I said it's viable to change but he's not really doing anything now to do that.

also, it's ante, not anti.

Again defends Omni with his back and worth with me.

Also I'm not commenting on the Gorf thing. If I get Gorf's drift, it's something I don't want to spoil. There's a chance I'm wrong, but I'll risk it. Let it lye now, I'll get back to you on it later once it's progressed.

Comments on wanting Gorf to move on first.

Yes .

Confirming it again.

my hardest stances this point are on soup and omni. both of those, as I have stated, are malleable, and capable of changing. if you have many strong reads at this point, you're either incredible at predicting or doing it wrong. Omni's given me something to work with. It's not the greatest ****ing thing in the book but he's been the most prominent player in this game.

Starts this again with Omni being super pro town for no reason.

**** gogdammit soup you're starting out like you did in pulp fiction again

please don't let it end the exact same way.

This is odd to Soup and suddenly a change from the buddy buddy he was doing before.

Yes, Soup, since apparently I can't explain it to him.

This is also interesting because Soup was quick to get to Washed side at this point with crystal clear townie as well.

Now remember Soup doesn't know if Washed is mafia at this point, Washed does so the interaction is different.

And no, Ruy, I've given you as much as I've wanted to say. I don't need to break down each individual line. I've told you why I found him townie. You can question it all you want, until you stop looking at the little details and look at the bigger picture of his play, you're not going to see it and we'll disagree about this until one of us dies.

Also, answer Soup's first question.

Again trying to appeal to Soup,

I didn't flesh a read out automatically and it makes me scum? Okay.

Deflects me.

that's because i saw it, pointed it out to you, and you didn't ****ing see it. :v do you want specific quotes as to where I thought he provided a clear stance?



That's...not why I have a positive stance on him. The only relation you have to that stance is that he pushed you. Everything else has come independently of your actions.

Again pushes back at him very harshly.

still a stance, more than others can claim

Again that ruy love.

Lemme finish catching up and I'll point out posts that made me think he was town.

Back to the point he was called out on.

I like this post a lot. It sums up my thoughts on situations in a pretty concise manner.

Gets really lovey dovy with Brosuke as well?

I never really thought about it like that.

His poor drop off from me with Swords.

Since it seems Bronar got a good chunk of flak for that post, I think I should explain a little why I agree with it:

While I will admit I've been misinterpreting Red Ruy's intentions practically since the start of this game, I don't really understand his methodology or his reasoning. That's mostly why I agree with Bronar's post. Not so much the "why would Red Ruy do this as town" part, moreso this part:



I don't know Omni's meta or experience, but I thought it was a bad way to elicit reactions, even from others, because of its obviousness or its extreme nature that early in the game. Should Omni have overreacted (plausible if you disregard all kinds of meta), that's playing directly into scum's hands. Should he not realize exactly what you were doing, he probably would've blown it off and nothing would've been gained. There were a lot of ways that could've gone wrong.

However, in hindsight, I can see that Red Ruy probably went into this with some idea of how Omni would react to that kind of gambit and that his motives were actually a lot better. Throw in Swordy's point and I realize that Red Ruy's game really hasn't been too scummy at all, and that I've just been misinterpreting it.

unvote

He again sides with Brosuke an Swords.

Actually on second readthrough I disagree with a good majority of the rest of it. It was just his idea that Red Ruy's gambit could've easily backfired that I disagreed with.

Now back to Red Ruy's request.

Then he flips off it suddenly.

It's not a lot but these are posts of his that I particularly liked. I realize, in hindsight, I must've bull****ted something about stances as the only clear and definitive one he took was on you. I dunno where I got it from. /shrug

The rest of these have sentiments I either agree with or find ProTown even if I disagree with the methods.

Pretty much admits he bull****ted his liking of Omni here.

/shrug

I figured people would respond this way. Take it for what you will.

First interaction with J/Axel.

aw hell nah

vote: Axel

...

unvote

Joke post, noted but ignored for actions towards others.

no but seriously the cast of this game is shockingly similar to the cast of pulp fiction, except there's no ee, ranmaru, or ryker.

More of a joke.

Yep. Main players here are main players there other than you don't have a Ran to ***** at Soup all game and an EE to lurk all game until endgame. Chaco is your Circus and Omni's angry enough to be your Ryker. :v

no but seriously this is irrelevant

Last comment here.

Deciding between Inferno and Brosuke.

Remember this, he knows who his scummates are.

Inferno ha almost no interactions from WL himself, and Brosuke from what was surprisingly buddying at first then moved to let him die.

What a sudden change here.

I think he could use a good bandwagon but I'm not sure I'd say I'm absolutely fine with him dying.

Here I believe

What are you trying to say here?

Comments to Swords he reached out.

I'm not .

Axel call him out on this, but I take it as a null tell due to what WL was, a traitor.

Fair enough.

[/collapse]

Comment to Omni, sudden.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Connection numbers:

Interactions:
Soupamario: 3
Omni: 3
Red Ruy: 5
Chaco: 1
Sworddancer: 1

Defended:
Omni: 5
Soup : 1
Brosuke: 2

Accused:
Red Ruy: 2
Inferno: 1
Brosuke: 1


Stances taken,
#96
Omni is town.
Ruy is anti town/scum.
Soup is being pro town.
Gorf was null
Inferno wasn't commented on stance wise, could be taken as null.
Chaco is inactive, so null
Brosuke is inactive so Null.
Bardull didn't post yet so null.
Swords is leaning town.
Felipe is not mentioned
J is not Mentioned.

~

Conclusions:
Very buddy buddy of Omni.
Was ok with me dead at first then backed off.
Felipe got almost nop mention in his posts like Chaco did.
Brosuke has sudden changes readwise from WL.
Was ok with Inferno dying at the end.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Also I purposefully to gambits for reads, but also to make myself look bad and make it to end game as town.

This bothers me in the context of this game. It has been bothering me since the beginning. Hell, the fact that people have been seen as town so easily for these kind of gambits is suffering on itself.

brb read RR's posts

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Don't try to look for indy at all. Just look for scum in general.

Indy hunting is fine if you know there is one.

At this time there is nothing yet to hint at it.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

So RR, instead of coldly presenting data, give us conclusions.

You can disregard Soup imo. They were bound to have interaction in early game because of out-of-game circumstances.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

This bothers me in the context of this game. It has been bothering me since the beginning. Hell, the fact that people have been seen as town so easily for these kind of gambits is suffering on itself.

brb read RR's posts

I do it as either alignment so it is a null tell with alignment.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So RR, instead of coldly presenting data, give us conclusions.

You can disregard Soup imo. They were bound to have interaction in early game because of out-of-game circumstances.

I did at the end of that second post.

Just not fully into reads yet.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You're diving in this WIFOM, I'm going to try and refrain from it. If you're going to do it, go through with it.

As for the rest of RVS, Swordy is okay, Gorf is surprisingly active for declaring V/LA, and I can't really remember anyone else posting. I think I remember Bardull and Bronar vaguely being here, and Felipe showed up at one point but they haven't done anything of merit. Chaco has yet to post.

Possibly important. Opinion?

 

[Inferno3044]

Inferno would you say that Omni is tailoring his posts to appeal to me?

Gorf, you can answer that after Inferno has answered.

I have definitely noticed a less angry posting style at the moment. Tailor isn't the word I'd use but I do sense him seeing you in a better light than he did D1.

Also kinda early in my reread. Just saw a couple of things.

not you. felipe.

you're brosuke. who could lynch a fellow bro who apparently enjoys the same rpg that i do as well

You've been going at Felipe this whole time LOL.

Inferno I tend to remain taking a front row seat this game. I refuse to take the sidelines.

What happened to this RR?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I have definitely noticed a less angry posting style at the moment. Tailor isn't the word I'd use but I do sense him seeing you in a better light than he did D1.

So you are of the opinion that he isn't trying to appease people (read: me, pretty much his antithesis) with his new posting style?

You've been going at Felipe this whole time LOL.

Do you think it's a substitute for actual content? Do you think it's to push a 'free lynch' for mafia? Give me more. More more more. I want active thinking, 3,2,1 GO!

 

[Inferno3044]

So you are of the opinion that he isn't trying to appease people (read: me, pretty much his antithesis) with his new posting style?

I think he is more willing to talk things through. Whether you call that appeasing is your choice.

Do you think it's a substitute for actual content? Do you think it's to push a 'free lynch' for mafia? Give me more. More more more. I want active thinking, 3,2,1 GO!

[/quote]

I can WIFOM a bunch of reasons as to why he wants Felipe lynched, but I don't know if it would be helpful. As I said I noticed he said he wanted Felipe gone and he's still at it.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

OoC:
This is GOOD wifom to get into. This is the point where you discern intentions. The more you practice this, the better you'll get at it.
The thing is, things like this is more back-up than the meat of a case. This is the point where "standard" mafia meets "nonstandard" mafia. Nonstandard divulged into the WIFOM and took intentions from certain actions which are likely and can be backed up. Besides that, you have some straight out scummy actions which you caught on to and present.
For example;
Inui voted for Anti, who he didn't pressure at all. This is scummy. [Main scum accusation, outright scummy]
Meanwhile, I saw that he also goes after inactives. These are easy targets for pressure blabla. [essentially WIFOM because it could simply be because he hates inactives]
~~~

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Don't take the example too serious per se. Didn't really think about it, just assume what I'm saying is true lawl.