G&W Stage Counterpicks and Bans: Snake

[UTDZac]

I dont really see the strong advantage SNake has over G&W on Brinstar. That video didn't help much as the G&W was using the wrong moves at the wrong times. How many times did he follow up a dthrow to a dsmash? or miss a charged upsmash? The trick is to be patient. I think the platforms on that stage and uneven floor make it ok.

Ban FD for sure. You NEED platforms to jump around on. Even lylat is ok. See Hylian's vid against Ally: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BzdZYtKegk

Rainbow Cruise is good, you just have to know why. I'm not sure why, mostly cause I don't play on the stage much. I mean one can argue it's because of the moving stage and platforms, but the low ceiling really hurts.

I fight Snakes with my DK, so I can't give much advice on this matchup besides just spacing turtle really really well and not hitting grenades while they are shielding.

 

[OverLade]

I dont really see the strong advantage SNake has over G&W on Brinstar. That video didn't help much as the G&W was using the wrong moves at the wrong times. How many times did he follow up a dthrow to a dsmash? or miss a charged upsmash? The trick is to be patient. I think the platforms on that stage and uneven floor make it ok.

Ban FD for sure. You NEED platforms to jump around on. Even lylat is ok. See Hylian's vid against Ally: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BzdZYtKegk

Rainbow Cruise is good, you just have to know why. I'm not sure why, mostly cause I don't play on the stage much. I mean one can argue it's because of the moving stage and platforms, but the low ceiling really hurts.

I fight Snakes with my DK, so I can't give much advice on this matchup besides just spacing turtle really really well and not hitting grenades while they are shielding.

Snake can easily outcamp GaW on brinstar. And the uneven floors force an approach more than flat floors.

I was saving my Dsmash for a kill, and I only missed one charged Usmash, which was a misprediction.

I don't feel GaW has any sort of edge on that stage against snake.

 

[Hylian]

I don't feel Brinstar is a very good GW stage in the first place. I don't have any logical reasoning, I just seem to usually do bad there :/.

Ok, Snake and GW can counterpick the **** out of each other. If Luigi's Mansion and FD are both legal then you NEED to win the first match or have a secondary. It's litterally almost impossible for GW to beat snake on FD or LM. On LM it's a bit easier because you can run away from him a lot but when you have to kill him it's stupidly hard. I played HRnut at FAST1 and 1st round was GW vs Snake on Battlefield. He won with 1 stock around 150%. Second game I counterpick FD and go Falco vs his snake and I 2 stock him low %. He CP's LM and I go GW, because I didn't know if falco was any good on that stage at the time, and I got 3 stocked LOL. I've never had good experiences with that stage vs snake :/.

So ban:
1st: LM/FD. If both are legal you have to win the first match or be a lot better then the snake to win lol. Have a secondary for those stage if they are both usually legal.

FD will always be legal, and you should ALWAYS ban it if LM isn't banned. Don't even bother thinking about banning other stages unless you play Diddy/Falco/DDD characters that are good on FD. Snake likes neutrals and flat = good vs GW for him.

GW's best stages vs snake are:
1: Rainbow Cruise
2: Frigate(IMO, you have to know the stage well though)
3: Pirate Ship(Platforms are a great level to constantly escape from snake)

Halberd is dangerous but I don't think snake has that big of an advantage on that stage if you know how to use it really well. Drop under and uair snakes nades away then jump and nair...it works pretty well.

For neutrals I actually find Lylat to work really well against snake just because you can jump around the platforms and abuse him really well. Just make sure and pay attention to his explosives. I don't like Yoshi's vs snake at all, he can camp under the platform too well. Battlefield is probably my favorite starter vs snake just because it's easier to keep him in the air there. Smashville is good for snake because that platform can be loaded with explosives lol.

On rainbow cruise you NEED to abuse the part of the stage right when you get off the ship and you move up. You will get the most damage here by far. On the ship they are going to be weary of the wall, so make it seem like you are trying to set-up a dtilt lock, and it becomes a bit easier to read them. If you get a dtilt lock with the tip of dtilt here they can't DI out, but they can DI out if you are close to them(like how ally DI'ed out of my Dtilt lock),

 

[cutter]

I definately agree that Final D needs to get axed as well as Luigi's Mansion. Again... I hate having to waste my stage ban on Mansion when that stage just never should be legal to begin with, but that's for another day.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hylian, this is where you pick up ROB. I've seconded ROB just for dealing with Snake (and in some cases Metaknight). I should probably use ROB more against Marth...except I've gotten too comfortable at dealing with most Marth players with Mario LOLOLOLOL.

ROB does better than Snake on LM and FD and in general has a slight advantage in the matchup since his laser camping > grenade camping.

On Luigis Mansion....ROB's laser camping is the most broken-***-**** in the game after edgecamping. Why? IT GOES THROUGH THE ****ING WALLS! Giving ROB a HUGE advantage outcamping EVERYONE. Including Falco. D-smash -> D-tilt lock is also broken nonsense if your opponent has trouble teching consistently.

FD is good for ROB like LM, except there are no gay-*** walls lmao.

ROB also does well on most of the stages G&W is good on except Battlefield and Green Greens. IMO, ROB has more advantages CPing stages against Metaknight than G&W does too, and I don't think ROB loses any worse than 6/4 against Metaknight personally, but that's just me. Everyone else says it is a terrible matchup. ROB at least forces the approach, and his lasers, Gyro, and F-smash beat the Tornado, plus his D-tilt has more range than Metaknight's.

 

[AzNfinesse]

against a snake...i'd just pick another character too (i usually go zelda)

BUT

if you were to play against snake w/ GaW, I'd go to norfair. The small platforms will limit his mortar slide and you can get really campy on this stage with platform nairs and bairs. Also, snake's recovery skills are severely gimped here and it's extremely easy to keep snake from making a full recovery.

it can be a problem too though...especially a snake that knows how to use his grenades and c4. just really watch out because if you get caught close range against snake, you're in big trouble.

 

[toobusytocare]

I say with GaW go Norfair or RC against snake.

 

[omegablackmage]

lets see for neutrals (the 5)

i like to avoid fd and yoshi
i like battlefield, smashville, lylat. the latter two not as much prefferred as battlefield.

for cp's:

rc is good, you just need to be careful on a lot of parts. the top of the stage can be early deaths.

frigate can work, but if the snake is experienced here it can suck. a mine on the moving platform can make it hard to recover on that side. Also the really low platform can be hard to approach snake if he's under it.

norfair is ok, if you make sure you stick to the bottom areas of the stage when around uptilt percent. I'll probably start using this stage more if it stays legal on the EC.

brinstar is bad, too many things extend the length of your hitbox and snake works well with the lower ceiling, and other various parts of the stage.

delphino is meh, low ceiling part can hurt, but its ok overall.

japes works alright, center platform can be campy, but you save a lot on deaths here, and gimp potential is certainly here.

in all honesty i would probably cp rc or battlefield, but rc will usually be banned. i would ban fd.

 

[Nicole]

I thought Snake was supposed to rock on Battlefield? I played a Snake there once though, and it was a close match, but Snake won. I usually go Diddy against Snake these days though. I think Lylat or Smashville are the best neutrals for this matchup.

Rainbow Cruise for sure, Japes is ok, Norfair is ok...ban FD, IMO it's worse than Luigi's, at least you've got some platforms for varied approaches there.

 

[Ken Neth]

Norfair is a good snake stage. I don't see where everyone gets this idea, but every counterpick stage discussion I've seen more than one person suggests norfair against snake and I don't get where it comes from.

Dthrow tech chase is great anywhere on this stage because the small platforms limit a characters options. It's big enough for a snake to be able to camp extremely well with grenades, and grenade stripping can allow snake to land his grenades on any of the platforms he wants. Plus, the dark stage makes it really hard to see c4s/grenades/mines. Then the multiple edges give snake a lot more recovery options to avoid getting gimped (not that this is necessarily a problem vs g&w anyways, but still)

tl;dr Snake is good on norfair.

 

[toobusytocare]

Norfair is a good snake stage. I don't see where everyone gets this idea, but every counterpick stage discussion I've seen more than one person suggests norfair against snake and I don't get where it comes from.

Dthrow tech chase is great anywhere on this stage because the small platforms limit a characters options. It's big enough for a snake to be able to camp extremely well with grenades, and grenade stripping can allow snake to land his grenades on any of the platforms he wants. Plus, the dark stage makes it really hard to see c4s/grenades/mines. Then the multiple edges give snake a lot more recovery options to avoid getting gimped (not that this is necessarily a problem vs g&w anyways, but still)

tl;dr Snake is good on norfair.

GaW is better there, the platforms are easy to abuse with nair, and its pretty open, so you can doge nades easily and stuff