Fusion of Three Bowser Guides

[MechaBoozer20XX]

Yeah, Tizoc.
Previously Smashboozer.

I need to stick to one gtag. = /

 

[sunshade]

Originally done by: Uraj
Edits: Me14k
The most notorious of uses for this move, however, is the dreaded “Bowsercide”. Since Bowser can control movement while in the air, if he grabs an opponent with this move he can, if he chooses, carry himself and his opponent off the edge of the stage and cause them both to lose a stock. If Bowser is a stock ahead, this can essentially ensure a victory for him if he uses it to take his foe's last stock; However, while it is assumed that the opponent would die first (being that they're under Bowser when he uses this), there are times when Bowser will use this technique when both he and his foe are at 1 stock, yet he will die at the same time and thus send the match into Sudden Death. It is not yet known what affects this outcome, but once it is discovered it will be promptly put here..

I am sure this has already been found but If you and your opponent are at 1 stock and you are at the higher percent but bowsercide the opponent and kill him despite him having the control of the move it is throw into sudden death.

 

[Cassius.]

I am sure this has already been found but If you and your opponent are at 1 stock and you are at the higher percent but bowsercide the opponent and kill him despite him having the control of the move it is throw into sudden death.

And that, my good sir, doesn't really matter. Due to certain rules, whenever a suicide move is initiated and successfully done on the last stock, the "suicider" wins the match, regardless of Sudden Death.

So, basically in your situation, I'd win the match if I Bowsercided.


Pretty cool.

Also, not to go off topic but I just now remembered how dead this thread was. We aren't going to use this for anything right? Is someone going to make a new Bowser guide or something?

 

[B!squick]

Yeah, someone really should have made a new after this...

If only, right?...

It's not like someone already did, right?...

....

 

[Akumin Beast]

Bowser Is A Defender

Learn to dodge projectiles.

Make good use of his superior defense, and shield grab alot.

Mindgame opponents, and don't stay in one spot. Move around like a ninja turtle on crack.

Learn to edge hog, and land hog accordingly.

Flame Thrower should not be over used, and only be used to catch opponents off guard while recovering.

Stay unpredictable, not with just Flame Thrower.

His Down B can be used at very situational occassions, like if people were jumping up off the edge, you could use Down B (off the ground only) and while they are falling, they probably won't have time to react.

Bowser is defense.

Take as little hits as you can.

Punish any wrong DI maneuvers.

Bowser's moveset is all about pressuring your opponent.

Learn your opponent, and their style aswell. Do not let your mindgames become inferior to your opponents.

^^

 

[Hobobloke]

Wow, before that the last post in here was 2009. Time flies.

 

[Cassius.]

september 2009?!

****!! that was so long ago! wtf

 

[Akumin Beast]

Sadly time does fly. Poor Bowser is underestimated. Somebody really needs to come together and make a Bowser guide people cannot turn away from. Explain that Bowser is more than just slow. He is a tank, and kicks serious *** if you play him the right way. If you know that strength and speed are like the characters themselves. They each have different moves, priorities, mindgames. In the end they both can win, it depends on the person who chooses which attribute to manifest that makes the other attribute lose. Pretty much.. It depends on the person.. NOT THE CHARACTER.

Just because you are a powerhouse doesn't mean you can kill my Jigglypuff.

Just because you can spam projectiles doesn't mean you can kill my Bowser.

Just because you have parry doesn't mean you can't destroy my Shiek.

Just because you have weight doesn't mean I can't kill you with Samus.

If you look at it this way, as in questions. You ask yourselves, how is this possible? That is when the answers surface on how to turn a disadvantage into a neutral advantage. Intead of complaining about physics, and how things work. Aswell as ''technical'' notions of how a character responds to the games engine. Learn to complain that you don't know how to not complain and figure out how to counteract simple predicaments within the game. MK's mach tornado is not hard to dodge.. Snake is not easy to die from.. Luigi cannot chain combo you if you stay out of the air.. Marth can't kill you if you don't let him juggle you.. Stop being aggressive with bowser, learn to mindgame your opponent. Shieldgrabbing makes Bowser even worse to approach in good hands.

Anyways, anyone else got any more advice towards Bowser based off their observation? Not technical information. How do you think Bowser SHOULD be used

 

[Dumbfire]

Sadly time does fly. Poor Bowser is underestimated. Somebody really needs to come together and make a Bowser guide people cannot turn away from. Explain that Bowser is more than just slow. He is a tank, and kicks serious *** if you play him the right way.

A guide is not going to do that. Nobody is really going to come out on the forums and come out with the idea that Bowser is amazing. Players like KingKong do a better job.
Like your enthousiasm though.

 

[Flayl]

In the distant future I was planning on making an updated Bowser guide but honestly I'd rather it be for Project: M Bowser, assuming they don't screw him up to the point where I hate playing him.

 

[Dumbfire]

Maybe we could start a community project sometime or something, since we do kinda need a updated guide. Nothing fancy, but this is really outdated.

 

[Akumin Beast]

Enthusiastic: Act 2 :D

True.. I am just stating that, every guide out there starts with the boring technical stuff about Bowser.. You need to open people's eyes on the psychological presence Bowser gives. He has powerful attacks, people will dodge alot. He also creates the sandbag illusion. When really you'll become a sandbag if you don't approach him appropiately. He has strength that throws people around at 0% already. It forces them to be casted into DI gaming hell, loss of options, and it gives Bowser's incredible strong attacks priority. He CAN do a mix between guarding the edge and staying on the ground to make it very hard to kill him. I like to jump off the edge and come back over the edge and Down B back onto the edge, (Yes I don't let them grab the edge either. Sometimes I do get unlucky. I only have been playing Bowser for 7 days now. I have to still learn all that prioritizing with Bowser.) He also has a great annoying tool that makes recovering a ***** if used right. The flame thrower cancels out attacks, and it throws opponents off guard. If you remain throwing out that BBQ move you'll quickly find your opponent spamming moves until they hit you, or catch you off guard.

All I am trying to say is Bowser is only seen by what you see.. Not what we can't see, and can only see by thinking, outside of physics. There is a whole new psychological outlook on strength and speed. People think their fox or MK can devour Bowser and turn him into a sandbag, when really shieldgrab + mindgames + fortress + other minor moves here and there, and occassional catching people off guard can turn the game around. It's mayhem for both characters. Bowser has alot of disadvantages if you say he has disadvantages. The key is to learn how to turn a disadvantage into a neutral effect.

I am aware of high level of play, I always make sure I am in the zone before I state my zone. I don't like to speak based off groundless accusations. I just wish to see more Bowsers that aren't spamming Down B, or Bowser-cides. I want to see a really good Bowser like Zig for an example. I don't like it when people mock characters like Ike, or Jigglypuff thinking they are going to annoy us, when these characters have their own golden style of destruction. It takes a well thought out strategy, mind, and mindset to hone this knowledge in the end.


Do you think the same thing still? I know people go to the Bowser thread here and there D: Just have to show people that Bowser is more than just a technical slow turtle. Who can be spot dodged to all hell.. Which isn't true.

How about that enthusiasm? XD

 

[Dumbfire]

Nobody here spams Bowser Bomb, don't worry =P. About Side-B, I think you should see this set.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX_Z3QRIvbc
Klaw is amazing, and if you can land three Bowserside's go ahead.

I also encourage you to check out this thread. This is a weekly character discussion that was going on a while before the current tierlist was made. You can see efforts of many people to show that Bowser isn't as bad as the Backroom thinks.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=284036&highlight=weekly

This didn't work all so succesful, but both Vex and MrEh got a spot in the Brawl Backroom, and they'll do their part on representing Bowser. Now whats also important is tournament placings and attending tournaments in general. Going to tourneys shows people Bowser. Read stories of Limit going to tourneys, how people just looked at him like "Are you serious?" and then picked D3. This would follow with Limit defeating the D3. Placings count in the tierlist and also shows people what Bowser can. And you can help with that by attending offline tournaments where you live. Tournament results give proof to things people claim and will convince people that Bowser is good a lot better.

WE here know Bowser is better, and we want to show that to other people, but Offline tournament results are going to do that better than anything. And as an extra, a new guide would be useful, even if its just to attract this few new members, but its not high priority. The game has been here for really long and most people really aren't in the level where they need a guide to start on a character any more.

 

[Cassius.]

wait so you guys want a character guide for koops?

damn i'll get to work on that in 6 days.

when my large paper is due. sounds good?

 

[Akumin Beast]

To Unleash the Beast (Dun da Dun!)

I agree completely.

Limit, that sounds good. I will be sure to read it aswell. I could help fix errors if there is any.

Sad story is my GC controller is giving out, I have been barely winning fights against MK's and 3v1's because I have been pissing taunt parties off all day today, with NO foward dash. Thats right. I have been killing people with one of my directional responses not working. LOL That means I can't smash to my left either. I have to lure them ALL to my right side. Funny huh? XD As if Bowser isn't already at a disadvantage as it is ;~; Not only that. My C stick doesn't work anymore. NOT only that. My shield button works only 70% of the time. My Z button gets stuck too. It's so hilarious. I like a challenge though. It's what makes winning feel like ''winning''. You know? XD

Come on guys we can doooo dis. We have to get MORE people, not just the already renowned Bowser players. To unleash the beast. (That should be the name of the guide)

Also, Limit are you going to give Bowser the psychological overview like I explained? To explain that just because he is slow doesn't mean ****. XD

 

[B!squick]

Maybe we could start a community project sometime or something, since we do kinda need a updated guide. Nothing fancy, but this is really outdated.

wait so you guys want a character guide for koops?

damn i'll get to work on that in 6 days.

when my large paper is due. sounds good?

Yes. If only someone had made a guide more recently than this one.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=222754

 

[Cassius.]

uh, what psychological thing?

im just going to go in depth about what bowser has...

...

 

[Dumbfire]

Yes. If only someone had made a guide more recently than this one.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=222754

Don't worry I read that the second I came here and really liked it, just never responded since the last response was a lot earlier.

 

[B!squick]

Why thank you. I glanced over it again after all this time and while some of the info is kinda dated I still think most of it holds up after all this time.

Bowser's metagame: not broke since '08

 

[Eternal Vires]

Psycho Logical

uh, what psychological thing?

im just going to go in depth about what bowser has...

...

This is Akumin Beast, read my post in Bowser's Q/A thread if you are curious why I have this name. Why I haven't replied lately.

When I said psychological, I was pertaining to an underground view of Bowser and the way he plays. To explain WAY more than just mechanics. To explain that physics, and being slow is no reason to dismantle the overall nature of Bowser. That mindgames is an infinite link to outthink your opponent, it doesn't just end at.. Opponent mindgames your mindgaming them. Or.. mindgame their mindgaming your mindgame.. Or they can mindgame your mindgaming their mindgaming you to mindgame them. There is a whole new sublevel of knowledge and ability beyond mechanics, and what is possible during gameplay. You can't just use technical information to formally induce a finished product. Bowser has a game of intimidation, and people WILL underestimate you, and WILL dodge your very deadly attacks. (If you master this, you will learn how to attack even high level players by punishing their spot dodges by holding on that charge just for a bit longer. Just make sure you get them into a spotdodging nature, not a powershielding nature. Psychology plays a huge role in video games, and I rarely every see anyone explain the foregrounds of basic psychology. So I was just wondering if you would give a summarized psychological explanation as to why slow does not mean bad. To explain, that because of shield grabbing, and other great abilities like Fortress out of shield, Bowser has some great potential, in the right hands. He is after all a DEFENSIVE character. Many people use him as OFFENSIVE. It already shows how easy it is to throw people off, especially when humans generally don't look into things that far.

Does any of this make sense? I sadly cannot explain this any better today. Sorry.

 

[Cassius.]

uh, psychological stuff involves the player, and im only one player, i can't speak for you.

some people just don't use bowser. for whatever reason it is, it's their choice--what can you do?

**** powershields, **** spotdodges. just klaw, it solves all of your problems. trust me.

so basically no, i won't give you a psychological summary as to why slow doesn't mean bad because i only have one brain.

 

[Eternal Vires]

uh, psychological stuff involves the player, and im only one player, i can't speak for you.

some people just don't use bowser. for whatever reason it is, it's their choice--what can you do?

**** powershields, **** spotdodges. just klaw, it solves all of your problems. trust me.

so basically no, i won't give you a psychological summary as to why slow doesn't mean bad because i only have one brain.

All is good. Lol. Although, above is an opinion by the way. Spotdodging, and powershielding can have a great flexibility with the klaw in the end. Alot of people won't even expect a good bowser to spot dodge. Like if you are by the edge, and want to dodge a move. Spot dodge, then use fortress immediately to the ledge you are at. That seems viable to spotdodge for, and Bowser is good with the ledge, just don't let people grab the ledge when you spam Down B to the ledge from above. Although, his ledge game sucks at 100%+, or is significantly reduced, he still has jump off the ledge options.

Psychology is not based off one person. Psychology is a whole new level of perception, that can increase your chance of figuring out your opponent, and their intimidation. You can create advantages, by staying at your utter most complete top game, that way, they will lose some speed, or psychological power to go top speed, because they are being boggled by being killed by a Bowser. Intimidation, and Bowser's known low tier BS can be used as an advantage. Lol. It's kind of like the vice versa, alot of people give up with their low tier because the high tiers woop their ***, (because they never think to look beyond the structure they see, and how to counteract it.) MK is easy to powershield, and he is lightweight. If you get an aggressive MK, if you master your other Down B's potential, where when you are beside your opponent it actually lifts them up in the air where they can get squished, (It CAN catch them off guard. It's not like Lucario's DT.. It's alot faster) So if you are at around 60-90% he will start using Down smash alot to get you off the edge, that is the moment to find that perfect frame to dodge the first slash of his down smash, and immediately (if you are next to him) press down B. He is a LIGHT character. Not to mention, he is easy to shield grab.

Also I found out Bowser's dash can take MK out of his tornado. Not sure if this is useful on higher levels, but just putting it out there.

Psychology is why people are affected by tiers.. -.-

 

[Cassius.]

well look, im not going to be a psych major so im not really interested in figuring out/going in depths on the dynamics of every person i play. it's too much work, im sorry.

and down b is too risky. if you miss, then what.

seriously everything you keep talking about with the low tier bs and stuff like that is the player's problem, not the character. yes, i understand that brawl is a mental game and sometimes you do need to figure out some small habits of your opponent to use to your advantage, and if you call that psychology or whatever then i guess i've finally understood what you've been saying.

yes, we can use the "bowser's a low tier so i don't care" mood to our advantage to win because some people we face in bracket won't know the mu or will end up doing stupid things, but in the end this all involves the player's choice. a player can easily say "oh god is this guy seriously using bowser? hehe lemme go D3 and win, even though i don't use him" or "bowser...what? this'll be easy" and just completely end up losing a match because of dumb mistakes, or they can just see the player instead and say "hey, limit's actually really good with bowser, i should just do what i've been doing this whole bracket" or something. i really can't sit down and like do a survey of how many people care about or respect bowser because i know the numbers will be low for a reason. it's the players choice to decide if they wanna take you as a bowser player seriously. if they don't, then win. it's their loss honestly. you advance, they don't.

also, you really don't seem to understand. down b has a really stupid risk:reward ratio. if the player is on the top of their game, they can airdodge through the first hit of down-b and then what? you're wide open for a ****load of frames for ANYTHING to happen. do you really want to risk that at high/kill %s when you can just play it safe and kill the conventional bowser way?

aerial bowser bomb or whatever youre talking about to avoid dsmash. i dont even know if that works, but im pretty sure mk can definitely shield before you even come close to hitting him. dsmash is disgustingly fast...

 

[Eternal Vires]

Well, do not forget I am only speaking with alot of vicarious knowledge. I have yet to strengthen the overall tehnical game of the top player level mechanics. I am only saying what I see could work. I also play on WiFi which is consisted of lag, which is probably why I can get some good MK's into my bomb move to a star KO. I do not mean to pressure you with my psychology, I am just trying to contribute a sense of difference in Bowser's game. I have been self trained in psychology for years, because the human mind and these patterns our minds register is just fascinating IMO. I'm just putting it out there. If you are getting aggravated by my sense of perception I apologize. You seemed a bit moody when you replied to my comment before this one. I just see that not many people talk about psychology, and how things we see and how we see them can significantly turn the way we play into a puzzle, rather than a system.

The difference between a system, and a puzzle is. Systems, will always be a system, a technical, ''by the book'' scenario. Whilst, a puzzle can be made into all sorts of shapes. You make it's pattern, you are the system to the puzzle. Which grants higher flexibility during gameplay, which also significantly strengthens mindgames, and how to read your opponent. Since you are the controller.

I have also noticed that ALOT of people play through second nature. I believe that if you can get passed that auto-pilot window, you can put on a few more levels of play with just that alone.

Like I said Limit, I am not here to cause complex problems, or stress anything, or even seem like some annoying storybook. I am just trying to contribute, and display a different side of perspective to an obviously underated character. To enchance meaning into the character, rather than just see him as Bowser, a turtle who is slow, and does damaging attacks that is at low tier. There is so much more than just technicals :/

 

[Cassius.]

im not mad, it's just you have a really different thought process i guess.

when you're talking about bowser, you're talking about BOWSER, a character in a game. all of the psychological stuff depends solely on the player himself. so when im writing a bowser guide, im talking about the character, not the player.

when youre talking about MUs and stuff, you're discussing character vs character, not player vs player. because i've seen many times where a character has the tools to completely shut down another, but the character on the lower end winds up winning because the player performed better. there are a whole bunch of factors that are involved in that, but i just don't feel like discussing that, you know?

i appreciate you coming in with a different mindset, it is refreshing, but i just want you to see--and comprehend my point of view.

im not moody, im just extremely logical. i understand where you're coming from with this psychology stuff, i really do, but it's just not...in my mind at the moment.

like im not coming at you, but what you're putting on the table just doesn't seem to offer much for the character as opposed to the player. you're talking about player-specific things, as in people underestimating bowser.

 

[Eternal Vires]

I agreed from the beginning, there really wasn't any disagreement with my view in the first place though. You simply just don't want to dwell into things involving psychology, because it's reinforcing something more matter related, in which doesn't support the overall general idea your guide has to protray. I understand.

Anyways, I do look forward to this guide my friend. Can I be the typo man? XD You know.. the one who lets you know of the typos if I come across them. Yes? Yay

I don't mind. I have alot of time to spare, since I don't really believe in ''time'' per se. It seems like another ''limit'' to me.

If you are curious as to what I mean by ''limit'' you should go read the post I contributed to Verm's great thread about never giving up on such ridiculous things that affect your goals, no matter how great the obstacle is. He speaks the truth. Lol. The thread is pertaining to all the low-tier characters, and a bunch of insight on the side. Has nothing to do with your name XD

 

[Dozer]

Oops...Sorry. Wrong Button

 

[SpeedTas Xyvar]

Bowser is one of the characters your ether good with or your not.
He's just too low for me too care about.
No offense to Bowser lovers everywhere.

 

[Cassius.]

....thanks? Lol

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I don't get it.