Social "Friends being fought for!" Ike General Discussion

[1337Kai]

Well, I'm new to competitive Smash using Ike, though I have years of experience with him owning lv.9 CPUs on a 1v1. Any suggestions for things I may want to train or watch out for in competitive Smash?

1st, get rid of bad habits. Rolling too much, being predictable, and spamming are good examples of bad habits.

2nd, play against human players with better skill, reaction speeds, and knowledge than you. People like these can really help you out with what you need to improve. CPU's are not the best training partners.

3rd, know EVERYTHING about your character. Having extensive knowledge about your main can grant advantages in your matches. Knowing what stage to avoid, good combos, what good match ups your character has, etc.

4th, don't be a sore winner/loser....just....don't

5th, get a secondary. Secondaries can help cover up the bad matches your main has and maybe vice versa.

6th, get involved in your smash community. Know when and where tournaments are in your area, join FB groups, etc.

7th, know all the complicated terms and techs like tech chases, gimping, priority, zoning, etc. Again, having a lot of knowledge of the game can grant advantages in the game.

8th, know about frame and hitbox data. Knowing when a hit lands, how long someone is vulnerable, how far your attack reaches are key to learning smash

9th, watch streams and youtube videos of tournaments. You can probably learn a lot from competitive smash by watching pros playing competitive smash.

10th, never give up.

Finally, here are videos to help you out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPvtpq-4EGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6AM_DsEiwE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rLRAFrLmT8

I hope this helped man. I know I'm not the best sm4sh player, but I do my best and so should you. Another last thing, PRACTICE. This the most important thing you need you know about competitive sm4sh.

 

[Sol0ke]

Should I go back into the Ike Skype group? I feel kind of bored.

 

[McKnightlíght]

So there I was charging up an eruption on the edge waitin to punish this lil son of a B and then it lags and I miss horribly.

Screw FG screw lag!

 

[DMurr]

1st, get rid of bad habits. Rolling too much, being predictable, and spamming are good examples of bad habits.

2nd, play against human players with better skill, reaction speeds, and knowledge than you. People like these can really help you out with what you need to improve. CPU's are not the best training partners.

3rd, know EVERYTHING about your character. Having extensive knowledge about your main can grant advantages in your matches. Knowing what stage to avoid, good combos, what good match ups your character has, etc.

4th, don't be a sore winner/loser....just....don't

5th, get a secondary. Secondaries can help cover up the bad matches your main has and maybe vice versa.

6th, get involved in your smash community. Know when and where tournaments are in your area, join FB groups, etc.

7th, know all the complicated terms and techs like tech chases, gimping, priority, zoning, etc. Again, having a lot of knowledge of the game can grant advantages in the game.

8th, know about frame and hitbox data. Knowing when a hit lands, how long someone is vulnerable, how far your attack reaches are key to learning smash

9th, watch streams and youtube videos of tournaments. You can probably learn a lot from competitive smash by watching pros playing competitive smash.

10th, never give up.

Finally, here are videos to help you out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPvtpq-4EGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6AM_DsEiwE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rLRAFrLmT8

I hope this helped man. I know I'm not the best sm4sh player, but I do my best and so should you. Another last thing, PRACTICE. This the most important thing you need yo know about competitive sm4sh.

I main Ike, and without truly trying to research the character and competitive basics (I've never played truly competitively before), I feel like I've got a pretty good hold on him, but I have plateaued. I've reached the peak of my skill level, and it's been quite frustrating for some time, because I don't feel like I can improve. This checklist is very helpful, thank you.

 

[Betvinga]

I main Ike, and without truly trying to research the character and competitive basics (I've never played truly competitively before), I feel like I've got a pretty good hold on him, but I have plateaued. I've reached the peak of my skill level, and it's been quite frustrating for some time, because I don't feel like I can improve. This checklist is very helpful, thank you.

^ this

It feels like I reached my limit and I'm not able to improve anymore; what's left is being able to read your opponent and react.

Edit: What if Aether would HEAL Ike every time he lands a hit on someone?

 

[Linkmario00]

^ this

It feels like I reached my limit and I'm not able to improve anymore; what's left is being able to read your opponent and react.

Edit: What if Aether would HEAL Ike every time he lands a hit on someone?

It would be good fro our recovery, only a few would risk to heal you by approaching while recovering. Even if it heals like 5% at time.

 

[1337Kai]

^ this

It feels like I reached my limit and I'm not able to improve anymore; what's left is being able to read your opponent and react.

Edit: What if Aether would HEAL Ike every time he lands a hit on someone?

It would be a nice buff, but I'd prefer to have a longer super armor frames on it, because at the peak of the move, you're vulnerable to meteor attacks from good edge guarders. I remember losing a match from a Ganon spiking me because I got too reliant on the super armor frames. Still mad about that...

 

[McKnightlíght]

It would be a nice buff, but I'd prefer to have a longer super armor frames on it, because at the peak of the move, you're vulnerable to meteor attacks from good edge guarders. I remember losing a match from a Ganon spiking me because I got too reliant on the super armor frames. Still mad about that...

I just wish that Ike couldn't get shield grabbed in the middle of aether. It just ruins your day.

 

[-RedX-]

More Ike buffs:
Ftilt faster startup, damage reduced: 14% to 12%.
Dash attack startup reduced(?), damage increased: Sour spot: 7% to 11%
Sweet spot: 10% to 14%.
Will test more, just first observations so far.

 

[Sol0ke]

Oh sweet, Ike getting some buffs? Even if it's a little, I'll take it.

 

[the king of murder]

Was the Ftilt damage reduce really necessary? Now I cant kill as reliably with pivot Ftilts as before( I know he has other options but still) though the faster startup might be good for some better follow ups.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Was a fully charged Forward Smash damage 30 ?

 

[DarkDeity15]

Good to see Ike getting some buffs as well as Link. Are there any buffs to his aerials in terms of being able to act out of them in the air sooner? That could make gimps a bit safer.

 

[Xuan Wu]

I'm indifferent toward F-tilt in this update, but the buffs allow Dash Attack to hit as hard as Link's damage-wise. The increased knockback also allows it to be a decent kill option now; before, it could not kill at all. I was able to KO Ganondorf at the edge of FD in Training Mode with it when he is at around 110%.

^-^

 

[Deathcarter]

Was the Ftilt damage reduce really necessary? Now I cant kill as reliably with pivot Ftilts as before( I know he has other options but still) though the faster startup might be good for some better follow ups.

Sad but not surprising. Sakurai has largely balanced Ike by dialing back on his more extreme attributes in Brawl making him generally faster in terms of mobility and start/end lag but nerfing his power and range and getting rid of the abusable aspects of some of his moves like jab canceling, Aether spiking, and super armor on Eruption.

 

[Arrei]

It looks to me like Ftilt's damage reduction only really serves to make punishing with it deal less damage. It wasn't exactly the greatest kill tool before anyway, needing middle weights to be over 100% to kill at the sides despite being so slow, and it doesn't look like it lost any more than a tiny smidgen of kill power - I'm still landing kills with it in the same situations as before.


So which change is your favorite, guys? Ftilt's faster startup lets us actually use it to intercept approaches now, Uthrow allows for much more reliable followups from grabs, the higher hitbox on Fair matches the actual animation and hits more easily, Jab1 to Jab2 transition can finally stop opponents from floating out of it and also more effectively walls out approaches on the ground,dash attack is finally useful with more speed, more damage, and actual kill potential, and Nair having less landing lag makes our spacing safer.

Myself, I am just adoring the reduced endlag on Uthrow. Besides its synergy with the Fair buff, it's also made landing those 0% Throw -> Aether combos much more reliable. I don't know if the supposed change to Aether's suction is to thank for it, but I landed one on Samus today when she'd pop out every single time pre-patch.

 

[Arrei]

Was a fully charged Forward Smash damage 30 ?

Yeah, I remember full power FSmashes being 30.

And being salty that it was weaker than Dedede and Bowser's FSmashes despite being slower and more punishable.

Edit: Dang, meant this to be an edit rather than a new post. Sorry.

 

[gByron]

Roy s reveal made me lose my faith in this character and sakurai a bit more but here we are again with these very welcome buffs. Ike and ike users are the one and only badass swordfighters!

 

[Xuan Wu]

F-air's hitbox fix would probably be my favorite. ^-^

I liked how Dash Attack is now a much more effective punish tool, and rage makes it even deadlier. As for N-air, where has it been confirmed that there is less landing lag? If that is true, that gives me a reason to use N-air more often as I have always thought F-air is better for spacing.

Anyway, what are your thoughts on Roy in SSB4? Almost everyone I have seen have quickly labeled him as the best FE character in the game. Does this seem true, or could the hype have exaggerated this?

 

[Mario766]

Roy's likely the best FE character. Ike is second though after these buffs.

 

[Xuan Wu]

Roy's damage output is pretty good; especially when sweetspotted. His Counter is also the strongest under default conditions, from what I've read, with a damage multiplier of 1.35x.

I'm still a bit skeptical about this, however. First, compared to the other FE characters, he lacks auto-cancelled aerials on short-hop. Second, in a metagame that is known to be defensive, wouldn't spaced attacks be more ideal than attacking up close as there is less risk of punishment?

^-^

 

[san.]

Ike's fair can jab lock at super low %s now. I also think that nair->footstool->nair->footstool... can work much more easily at mid % now. Would be pretty dumb if someone ever pulls it off in an actual match.


I don't think Roy is very good, just decent. He seems middle of the road overall to me. DI away and he's not too dangerous. He can't shield until long after his initial dash. If Roy ever dashes, just jab him. Shield, dash attack, dash grab, and fair all come out a bit too slow all at the same time. None of his aerials autocancel on a short hop. His nair, bair, and uair are pretty great but those autocancels hurt.

He does have some decent ground moves, though some of them have more end lag than you think. I'm also not too sold on his dthrow followups just yet. They seem pretty tight with the timing.

His recovery has some distance, but it's really exploitable. It can be hit from all sorts of angles and can even be countered easily.

He also falls really fast, but he's kind of lightweight with a large frame. That leaves him open to some nasty kill setups.

 

[Arrei]

As for N-air, where has it been confirmed that there is less landing lag? If that is true, that gives me a reason to use N-air more often as I have always thought F-air is better for spacing.

Anyway, what are your thoughts on Roy in SSB4? Almost everyone I have seen have quickly labeled him as the best FE character in the game. Does this seem true, or could the hype have exaggerated this?

Nair's the third point on San's list.

Just looking into his early performance, Roy kills disgustingly early with those close-range Fsmashes, and he's got great potential, especially with his Uair sourspot -> UpB kill setups, Nair combos, and so on, but I'm pretty sure the hype's over-exaggerating him. I didn't buy his DLC, so I mostly only have the opponents I've faced in FG to go off of, though.

He has very formidable ground game and inherited the speed of Marth's Nair, Fair, and Uair, but a lot of his deadlier combos look like they can be thwarted with pretty simple DI. Flare Blade is as inapplicable as ever and apparently lost the top of its hitbox, many of his moves are unsafe on shield yet he can't exert shield pressure, and he's a tall, lightweight fast faller with the worst recovery of the bunch. And since this is just an early look, there's no telling what kind of havoc rage will wreak on his followups.

Plus he inherited Ike's Dair so we get to be Crappy Dair Buddies!

 

[Mario766]

Roy's dair spikes at least on the blade and not the tip. So theres that

 

[Arrei]

Roy's dair spikes at least on the blade and not the tip. So theres that

*flips table*

 

[-RedX-]

Roy's jab is amazing and it's probably the only jab in the game that leads into a guaranteed kill. Followup with Blazer at ~110%.
I still think Ike is the best swordsman, he is relatively safer while having really good rewards. The buff to Nair is probably my favorite while the buff to Dash Attack makes me giggle.
Roy's only guaranteed followup after Dthrow at low percents is jab. Everything else looks like a frame trap.
However, his mobility is really good and I wish Ike had it. lol
And he totally stole Ike's old Dair minus the lingering frames.

 

[Arrei]

Interesting, a kill confirm from a jab? Sounds dangerous, but I presume it needs to be sweetspotted?

A Dair with no lingering frames is no Ike Dair at all! I still miss that so much.

 

[san.]

I wish his fair was as fast as marth's. It legit feels like a frame 9-11+ move. You have to use Roy to see which moves are laggy or not. If you just play him, he'll seem really fast since the delay isn't animated.

My problem with Roy's jab is that I'm not sure how fast it is. If it's frame 5 or less, that's great. Any more and it's not looking so great. Swordfighter has a guaranteed jab into kills, but his jab is frame 7.

 

[-RedX-]

Yea, sweet-spotted jab, no wet-noodles.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Man the changes are awesome!

 

[Ussi]

Roy is really awkward to use, he moves in the air like its melee. Roy is good though, I don't know whose better between Ike and Roy, but they are definitely the best two FE characters. Roy's fsmash for its speed is insane (kills sub 100%, can kill 70% with rage)

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Roy is really awkward to use, he moves in the air like its melee. Roy is good though, I don't know whose better between Ike and Roy, but they are definitely the best two FE characters. Roy's fsmash for its speed is insane (kills sub 100%, can kill 70% with rage)

The downside it has bad range and narrow hitbox.

 

[san.]

I liked Roy once I learned not to fair for aerial spacing and use nair instead. Everything else started to click after that. Learning the frame data also helped a whole lot, too.

 

[Locke17]

I think all 3 new DLC characters are pretty solid. Really liking Ryu and so much to learn with him, not to mention him and Ike look kinda similar to me.

 

[Ekans647]

I liked Roy once I learned not to fair for aerial spacing and use nair instead. Everything else started to click after that. Learning the frame data also helped a whole lot, too.

Roy's Fair is weird. It's an odd medium between Marth and Ike's Fair. Nair is surprising powerful too.

Link to frame data?

 

[-RedX-]

Think I might start abusing Dash Attack to punish ledge getups. Looks incredibly rewarding so far.
Really makes rolling away from Ike a lot risker now too.

 

[san.]

Roy's Fair is weird. It's an odd medium between Marth and Ike's Fair. Nair is surprising powerful too.

Link to frame data?

I agree. It's good, but it should autocancel from a short hop. It has amazing IASA frames though.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-sword-of-seals-roy-moveset-frame-data-incomplete.406162/unread

 

[-RedX-]

If you SH Fair with Roy, you can either jump or use a special to avoid landing lag. Weird stuff.

 

[AN(M)ist]

FINAL FANTASY 7 REMAKE CONFIRMED, asfwergrtegruroijfnortusiergfhjsoreiuajmserlisjvmwlerik;fad

 

[Ussi]

Wow Square must be out of money then.