Social "Friends being fought for!" Ike General Discussion

[Ussi]

Can anyone play me on wifi within the next hour or so? I'd like to see how a smash4 Ike player plays like.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Some questions:

Is FF fair any good? (One of my favorite things to do in brawl :x)

Are bthrow/fthrow any useful?

What kills when? What moves should I fish with normally or try to set up?

Can jab cancel to anything? I miss jab > utilt as a kill option ;_;

Common frame traps?

Ledge options, since ledge hop > AD is not a thing anymore... I know ledge hop nair/fair is doable, but is it worthwhile to do?

Also what do I do against people hanging on the ledge?


Oh God I'mma calm down and end my questions here. That said, I need people to play and help me improve my Ike so message me if you want to play/help me.

It's usually better to SH autocancel F-air, but against some shorter characters, it's important to know the spacing for fastfalling F-air.

Ike gets very good positional advantage from B-throw and F-throw which puts people in positions where you can make reads with F-air or Eruption edgeguards to potentially get KOs. Use your own judgement whether you'll benefit more from D-throw/U-throw juggle setups, or edgeguard opportunities.

On average, Ike can KO with most of his moves at around 100-130% (F-tilt, most aerials besides N-air). D-throw kills around the 160-180% range. It's also possible to do stale U-throw -> U-air for KOs. A good F-air or Eruption edgeguard however can end stocks around 80%.

If you're going to Jab cancel, do Jab 1 to grab.

N-air -> D-tilt spaced correctly can put people in awkward positions when they shield. Sometimes if you're really fast, I think you can frame trap airdodges with N-air -> U-tilt/Quick Draw, though this is very positioning dependent.

Everyone in this game benefits from ledge stand, as there is only one frame of vulnerability during a ledge stand, and shielding attacks near the ledge doesn't push you off in this game. The most consistent way to punish ledge stand universally is by grabbing because you have a 4 frame window to grab someone who buffers spotdodge or roll from a ledgestand.

Ledge trump-> B-air has to be respected against Ike. After you threaten your opponent with this a few times, they will have to buffer a getup from the ledge.

 

[Vincent21]

Question! If you're playing against another Fire Emblem (Marth/Lucy) does it really just simplify to "punish bad SH moves, fair spacing, and conditioning them against counters by grabbing" or am I missing something?

 

[Arrei]

Well, they also have pretty formidable but punishable ground moves, so a good defense game is still there, while staying wary of Shield Breakers. But yeah, for the most part Ike's advantage there will have to come from using his sword's longer reach. However, Fair spacing can be difficult since they have quick aerials in their arsenal, so retreating Bairs will likely be a powerful tool against them.

 

[Trunks159]

Can anyone play me on wifi within the next hour or so? I'd like to see how a smash4 Ike player plays like.

aw, didnt see this post till today

 

[Trunks159]

Question! If you're playing against another Fire Emblem (Marth/Lucy) does it really just simplify to "punish bad SH moves, fair spacing, and conditioning them against counters by grabbing" or am I missing something?

Marths offensive capabilities are lacking, since his dash attack sucks, and his fair is a little laggy, and his nair has awkward spaceing (also laggy), and he basically has no combos. His defense is more tricky though with his sword, but his jab can be taken advantage of. Either try to get him to play offense or play extremely patient offense.

Marth players rely on reads and reactions.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

One thing I learned against Sheik is to extremely limit your jumps. Stay on the ground so she can't capitalize with random Fair combos, Nair, and Bair. On the ground, she's limited to shorthop fairs, jabs, dashgrabs, Needles, and the occasional random Bouncing Fish, which is extremely punishable. You have DTilt at your disposal.

 

[Ussi]

aw, didnt see this post till today

I might be able to play today in around 3 hours. If you want to play then.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I went to a tournament last night and placed 1st out of 25. I noted a couple of things with Ike in case anyone's interested.

1) If you read a ledgegrab into roll, go to the furthest point of the roll and USmash. If they got up neutral or attacked, you may be safe. If they jumped, you may still have a chance if they didn't read it. If they roll, they're done for.

2) Certain characters, such as Falco, love to peg Fair. Take that away from them and they're sitting ducks. They're also tall characters, making them vulnerable to an instant out-of-shield Bair.

3) Certain characters, such as Falco, are also very hard to kill. The Falco and Pikachu I faced had tons of damage and started mounting a comeback on me. Because I couldn't land a solid Bair or UTilt to finish them, I had to resort to attrition - whittling their life away to 160% or more and hitting the DThrow.

4) I need to remember not to jump so much. Ike's aerials are important for his approach, but certain characters (i.e. Sheik) have the edge in the air. It's beneficial to use your ground game to jab, fastfall grab, DTilt, and pivot FTilt when necessary.

5) I remembered to do fastfall grabs. It's been a while, but it's very helpful as a mixup once people start shieldgrabbing me out of Fair.

6) I got compliments for a few things. One was my grab game, another was the USmash roll read, and most importantly, the ledge UThrow. When they airdodged, I immediately read it and punished into Bair, which killed at 90%.

7) I mixed in more UTilt. It's a huge help.

8) Managed a couple of kills with Eruption. It works so much better when you're not dealing with lag.

My biggest challenges were a Pikachu and a Falco player. Pikachu in general builds combos quick and is hard to hit. Falco has a lot of reach and arc attacks. Both are incredibly safe characters that utilize a good air game, grab combos, and make it hard to finish the.m

 

[Trunks159]

I might be able to play today in around 3 hours. If you want to play then.

Do u have the wii u version?

 

[Trunks159]

I went to a tournament last night and placed 1st out of 25. I noted a couple of things with Ike in case anyone's interested.

1) If you read a ledgegrab into roll, go to the furthest point of the roll and USmash. If they got up neutral or attacked, you may be safe. If they jumped, you may still have a chance if they didn't read it. If they roll, they're done for.

2) Certain characters, such as Falco, love to peg Fair. Take that away from them and they're sitting ducks. They're also tall characters, making them vulnerable to an instant out-of-shield Bair.

3) Certain characters, such as Falco, are also very hard to kill. The Falco and Pikachu I faced had tons of damage and started mounting a comeback on me. Because I couldn't land a solid Bair or UTilt to finish them, I had to resort to attrition - whittling their life away to 160% or more and hitting the DThrow.

4) I need to remember not to jump so much. Ike's aerials are important for his approach, but certain characters (i.e. Sheik) have the edge in the air. It's beneficial to use your ground game to jab, fastfall grab, DTilt, and pivot FTilt when necessary.

5) I remembered to do fastfall grabs. It's been a while, but it's very helpful as a mixup once people start shieldgrabbing me out of Fair.

6) I got compliments for a few things. One was my grab game, another was the USmash roll read, and most importantly, the ledge UThrow. When they airdodged, I immediately read it and punished into Bair, which killed at 90%.

7) I mixed in more UTilt. It's a huge help.

8) Managed a couple of kills with Eruption. It works so much better when you're not dealing with lag.

My biggest challenges were a Pikachu and a Falco player. Pikachu in general builds combos quick and is hard to hit. Falco has a lot of reach and arc attacks. Both are incredibly safe characters that utilize a good air game, grab combos, and make it hard to finish the.m

Yes!! Always nice to see Ike do work.

To be honest, i cant think of anyone except maybe sheik that ike has trouble with. Mario maybe?

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Yes!! Always nice to see Ike do work.

To be honest, i cant think of anyone except maybe sheik that ike has trouble with. Mario maybe?

I don't have much trouble with Mario these days. Most of them have trouble gimping me, and if I see FLUDD coming, I use Quick Draw since they're not using the cape. Ike has the distance on him and can battle him in the air just fine. My main problem with Mario is being launched upwards since I know he's gonna do a read into USmash or grab - the former which is hard to avoid since it has huge range behind Mario, goes through Dair and Nair, and if you try and Counter, you may get hit with a grab or charged FSmash instead.

 

[Ussi]

Do u have the wii u version?

Only the Wii U version. Thought buying both was a waste of money. I'm actually free to play in 20 minutes or so.

Add: Ussinator

 

[Trunks159]

Only the Wii U version. Thought buying both was a waste of money. I'm actually free to play in 20 minutes or so.

Add: Ussinator

Ugh, cant play now, at college right now butll be available after 6.

 

[Ekans647]

I went to a tournament last night and placed 1st out of 25. I noted a couple of things with Ike in case anyone's interested.

1) If you read a ledgegrab into roll, go to the furthest point of the roll and USmash. If they got up neutral or attacked, you may be safe. If they jumped, you may still have a chance if they didn't read it. If they roll, they're done for.

2) Certain characters, such as Falco, love to peg Fair. Take that away from them and they're sitting ducks. They're also tall characters, making them vulnerable to an instant out-of-shield Bair.

3) Certain characters, such as Falco, are also very hard to kill. The Falco and Pikachu I faced had tons of damage and started mounting a comeback on me. Because I couldn't land a solid Bair or UTilt to finish them, I had to resort to attrition - whittling their life away to 160% or more and hitting the DThrow.

4) I need to remember not to jump so much. Ike's aerials are important for his approach, but certain characters (i.e. Sheik) have the edge in the air. It's beneficial to use your ground game to jab, fastfall grab, DTilt, and pivot FTilt when necessary.

5) I remembered to do fastfall grabs. It's been a while, but it's very helpful as a mixup once people start shieldgrabbing me out of Fair.

6) I got compliments for a few things. One was my grab game, another was the USmash roll read, and most importantly, the ledge UThrow. When they airdodged, I immediately read it and punished into Bair, which killed at 90%.

7) I mixed in more UTilt. It's a huge help.

8) Managed a couple of kills with Eruption. It works so much better when you're not dealing with lag.

My biggest challenges were a Pikachu and a Falco player. Pikachu in general builds combos quick and is hard to hit. Falco has a lot of reach and arc attacks. Both are incredibly safe characters that utilize a good air game, grab combos, and make it hard to finish the.m

What precent does Utlti KO at? What does Uthrow combo into?

 

[Trunks159]

What precent does Utlti KO at? What does Uthrow combo into?

Utilt kills Ganon @ 115% w/ utilt on town and city with no vi, sweet spot
Up throw is basically down throw.

 

[Ekans647]

Utilt kills Ganon @ 115% w/ utilt on town and city with no vi, sweet spot
Up throw is basically down throw.

Okay. With Uthrow I finds that my opponents can't DI away from me, so it more reliably combos into Aether. What does Dthrow combo into?

 

[Oblivion129]

I went to a tournament last night and placed 1st out of 25. I noted a couple of things with Ike in case anyone's interested.

1) If you read a ledgegrab into roll, go to the furthest point of the roll and USmash. If they got up neutral or attacked, you may be safe. If they jumped, you may still have a chance if they didn't read it. If they roll, they're done for.

2) Certain characters, such as Falco, love to peg Fair. Take that away from them and they're sitting ducks. They're also tall characters, making them vulnerable to an instant out-of-shield Bair.

3) Certain characters, such as Falco, are also very hard to kill. The Falco and Pikachu I faced had tons of damage and started mounting a comeback on me. Because I couldn't land a solid Bair or UTilt to finish them, I had to resort to attrition - whittling their life away to 160% or more and hitting the DThrow.

4) I need to remember not to jump so much. Ike's aerials are important for his approach, but certain characters (i.e. Sheik) have the edge in the air. It's beneficial to use your ground game to jab, fastfall grab, DTilt, and pivot FTilt when necessary.

5) I remembered to do fastfall grabs. It's been a while, but it's very helpful as a mixup once people start shieldgrabbing me out of Fair.

6) I got compliments for a few things. One was my grab game, another was the USmash roll read, and most importantly, the ledge UThrow. When they airdodged, I immediately read it and punished into Bair, which killed at 90%.

7) I mixed in more UTilt. It's a huge help.

8) Managed a couple of kills with Eruption. It works so much better when you're not dealing with lag.

My biggest challenges were a Pikachu and a Falco player. Pikachu in general builds combos quick and is hard to hit. Falco has a lot of reach and arc attacks. Both are incredibly safe characters that utilize a good air game, grab combos, and make it hard to finish the.m

Congrats!
Yeah that number 1 is really great. I've been using it lately. But it depends on the player and the length of the ledge attack. You'll know when it's useful.
Uthrow to Bair sounds really good, baiting an air dodge. I'll take that into account.

Okay. With Uthrow I finds that my opponents can't DI away from me, so it more reliably combos into Aether. What does Dthrow combo into?

From Dthrow you get pretty much the same combos as Uthrow, which are Nair, Bair, Uair and Fair, depending on %.
The main difference is Uthrow is less affected by % so you should use Uthrow instead of Dthrow after like 30-40%.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I went to a tournament last night and placed 1st out of 25. I noted a couple of things with Ike in case anyone's interested.

1) If you read a ledgegrab into roll, go to the furthest point of the roll and USmash. If they got up neutral or attacked, you may be safe. If they jumped, you may still have a chance if they didn't read it. If they roll, they're done for.

2) Certain characters, such as Falco, love to peg Fair. Take that away from them and they're sitting ducks. They're also tall characters, making them vulnerable to an instant out-of-shield Bair.

3) Certain characters, such as Falco, are also very hard to kill. The Falco and Pikachu I faced had tons of damage and started mounting a comeback on me. Because I couldn't land a solid Bair or UTilt to finish them, I had to resort to attrition - whittling their life away to 160% or more and hitting the DThrow.

4) I need to remember not to jump so much. Ike's aerials are important for his approach, but certain characters (i.e. Sheik) have the edge in the air. It's beneficial to use your ground game to jab, fastfall grab, DTilt, and pivot FTilt when necessary.

5) I remembered to do fastfall grabs. It's been a while, but it's very helpful as a mixup once people start shieldgrabbing me out of Fair.

6) I got compliments for a few things. One was my grab game, another was the USmash roll read, and most importantly, the ledge UThrow. When they airdodged, I immediately read it and punished into Bair, which killed at 90%.

7) I mixed in more UTilt. It's a huge help.

8) Managed a couple of kills with Eruption. It works so much better when you're not dealing with lag.

My biggest challenges were a Pikachu and a Falco player. Pikachu in general builds combos quick and is hard to hit. Falco has a lot of reach and arc attacks. Both are incredibly safe characters that utilize a good air game, grab combos, and make it hard to finish the.m

Told you Ike has what it takes!

I should be up to play tomorrow, unless I end up doing a six hour drive.

 

[Sol0ke]

Would there be any videos of the tourney you went to @ Rango the Mercenary ? Good job either way though!

 

[Robin1613]

are there any recent vids from tournaments involving ike at high level play? been quite dry for a bit.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

are there any recent vids from tournaments involving ike at high level play? been quite dry for a bit.

Search Ryo on that channel, he's a really good Ike.

Also see if you can get matches in with @ san. at some point.

 

[san.]

I am in a hotel ATM so I am unable to play.

I went to a tourney the other day and confirmed that both the front and back of Ike's usmash works on pika's ledge vulnerability. I also learned I suck at combo DI since I am used to just waiting it out or SDIing.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Would there be any videos of the tourney you went to @ Rango the Mercenary ? Good job either way though!

I feel guilty saving replays that I win against someone. Feels like I'm rubbing it in. But I'll see about doing it next time. Plus we could open the possibility of streaming.

Also, the only real problem I had with Ike was finishing off certain opponents. They stayed past 100% trying to get a comeback on me. I had to attrition them to 160% to Dthrow them since Bair, Utilt, Ftilt, and USmash weren't finishing them off for me. If I could just get a solid finish, that would be great.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Who wants to check the 1.0.5 patch on the 3DS for Ike changes? A few characters got very minor (mostly bug fix) tweaks.

 

[Xuan Wu]

What are the chances that Ike will be buffed further, considering what he got from 1.0.4.? ^-^

 

[Arrei]

I would be surprised to see any, but I'd certainly welcome some. I think Ike's mechanically sound right now, but I feel he's kind of lagging behind damage-wise.

 

[Sol0ke]

I feel guilty saving replays that I win against someone.

B-but we give no sympathy!

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

B-but we give no sympathy!

That's my Bair cutting someone. After the match it's about shaking hands and less Bairing.

 

[L7 Zero Cool]

Hey guys do you have a link that explains pivot mechanics and all that? How do I incorporate pivot forward and down tilt into my game?

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Hey guys do you have a link that explains pivot mechanics and all that? How do I incorporate pivot forward and down tilt into my game?

Pivot FTilt is basically dash-away and then turn to FTilt. It's pretty easy to do. This is best used against grab-happy Mario players who are chasing after you, as well as a safe option for characters rolling back onstage.

 

[Ekans647]

So what are some ways to develop my defensive game? How should a defensive smasher play? Is ere any guides about fundamentals in Smash?

 

[Trunks159]

So what are some ways to develop my defensive game? How should a defensive smasher play? Is ere any guides about fundamentals in Smash?

You could go to a different thread for this, or pm me, I wouldn't mind playing someone good.

 

[Mario766]

I'm getting confused on the auto cancel timing on F-Air.

I know that if you do a full hop you'll get it if you use it at the top of the jump, is there a way to get an auto cancellled F-Air through a short hop?

 

[Trunks159]

I'm getting confused on the auto cancel timing on F-Air.

I know that if you do a full hop you'll get it if you use it at the top of the jump, is there a way to get an auto cancellled F-Air through a short hop?

Full hop > fair > fast fall -autocancels
short hop > fair (no fast fall) -autocancels

 

[Mario766]

Every time when I try to get the no FF auto cancel with short hop, I end up with landing lag still.

I'll have to see if my timing is off when I get my new controller in.

 

[Xuan Wu]

Every time when I try to get the no FF auto cancel with short hop, I end up with landing lag still.

I'll have to see if my timing is off when I get my new controller in.

To use the auto-cancel F-air during a short-hop, you have to input the command for F-air the instant you leave the ground.

For me, this is easiest to perform using the C-stick for aerials. ^-^

 

[Trunks159]

Every time when I try to get the no FF auto cancel with short hop, I end up with landing lag still.

I'll have to see if my timing is off when I get my new controller in.

Yea, a rising fair.

 

[A2ZOMG]

So what are some ways to develop my defensive game? How should a defensive smasher play? Is ere any guides about fundamentals in Smash?

Honestly, it's mostly about knowing and respecting your opponent's options as necessary. Making choices that are unlikely to get punished significantly.

Or in Ike's case, that translates to keeping your opponent out with pivot F-tilt, Jab, and aerials usually as they try to get in. This is an oversimplification. But if you want a very specific tip on improving your defensive game, you should usually focus on winning games while minimizing the number of times you roll or spotdodge. The better you learn to space yourself fluidly, the stronger your defensive game will be. When you don't rely on rolls and dodges, you reduce the amount of guessing you do overall.

 

[Trunks159]

I think I is the coolest looking character in this game. Someone prove me wrong.
Red Ike
Orange Falco FTW