Social "Friends being fought for!" Ike General Discussion

[Baggy]

Hello Everybody. New to the forums, but not to smash. Just thought it'd be healthy for me to stick my feet in the water and get involved in the community. Looking forward to getting some Ike matches and/or insight.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

The Black Knight palette, from what I notice, does seem to be a bit overused. I use it mainly because it reflects my tag, which translates roughly to "Black Warrior" or "Black Tortoise General".

Oh, and I'm also a fan of the Black Knight in Path of Radiance, so that too further influenced my decision. ^-^

" Is that....all there is?"

I don't know how I feel about his voice in that game but I've always liked that quote.

 

[Arrei]

I killed my friend's Palutena at 25% with Aether on rage mode at Omega Palutena's Temple yesterday. We where both shocked when this happened to. Anyone ever experience hax kills with Aether to?? Gotta say it really makes me love Ike more <3

Yeah, I still don't really understand what causes that. I've never been able to do it myself, but I've seen a gif and a video where the initial strike somehow launches the opponent way higher than normal, even as low as 5%.

 

[san.]

Aether drive + ledge snap vulnerability = instant stage spike. Seems pretty useful.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Shameless attention seeking incoming.

Okay, I've been trying to legitimately take this character seriously (as in, not fail with him on For Glory). I've at least learned the art of securing wins with F-air/U-air edgeguards and pivot F-tilts, and I THINK I've gotten the hang of not throwing out U-smash in obviously stupid situations where I could get killed for it.

But I'm extremely sure overall I'm still bad at this character, and that doesn't make me happy because I do quite like Ike. I want to challenge someone, anyone from these boards over the weekend. Doesn't have to be Ike dittos if people here believe Ike dittos are silly (I've mostly put work in Ganon, Mario, and Doc if people were curious), but I would appreciate exposure from Smashboards Ike mains.

 

[Kimchi]

Shameless attention seeking incoming.

Okay, I've been trying to legitimately take this character seriously (as in, not fail with him on For Glory). I've at least learned the art of securing wins with F-air/U-air edgeguards and pivot F-tilts, and I THINK I've gotten the hang of not throwing out U-smash in obviously stupid situations where I could get killed for it.

But I'm extremely sure overall I'm still bad at this character, and that doesn't make me happy because I do quite like Ike. I want to challenge someone, anyone from these boards over the weekend. Doesn't have to be Ike dittos if people here believe Ike dittos are silly (I've mostly put work in Ganon, Mario, and Doc if people were curious), but I would appreciate exposure from Smashboards Ike mains.

I'd be down to play you this weekend. I'm in the same position, albeit my reasoning being more along the lines of not yet transitioning properly from Brawl. Perhaps we could learn a lot of things from each other.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'd be down to play you this weekend. I'm in the same position, albeit my reasoning being more along the lines of not yet transitioning properly from Brawl. Perhaps we could learn a lot of things from each other.

Cool, add me at your convenience. Most of the time I tend to find time to be online 7pm PST or later during the weekends.

I would argue Ike is overall the most changed character from Brawl (not in the strict buff/nerf sense). The mechanics and spacing nuances on him are so different, and imo honestly pretty weird compared to most characters.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Cool, add me at your convenience. Most of the time I tend to find time to be online 7pm PST or later during the weekends.

I would argue Ike is overall the most changed character from Brawl (not in the strict buff/nerf sense). The mechanics and spacing nuances on him are so different, and imo honestly pretty weird compared to most characters.

I actually believe Ike is mostly the same from Brawl. Yoshi and Bowser are definitely the most changed in this game. Ike is still about keeping his spacing with Ragnell and delivering powerful attacks for good kills. The only differences now are that his jab cancel is gone, his FSmash isn't as powerful anymore, Counter is faster, Eruption is good for edgeguarding, and he can recover better thanks to Quick Draw + Aether. Plus there's no ledgehogging, so recovery isn't futile either.

 

[PyroTakun]

I actually believe Ike is mostly the same from Brawl. Yoshi and Bowser are definitely the most changed in this game. Ike is still about keeping his spacing with Ragnell and delivering powerful attacks for good kills. The only differences now are that his jab cancel is gone, his FSmash isn't as powerful anymore, Counter is faster, Eruption is good for edgeguarding, and he can recover better thanks to Quick Draw + Aether. Plus there's no ledgehogging, so recovery isn't futile either.

Can't forget the D-Tilt change; went from a spike to a combo-starter.

Although if it was still a spike, Ike would be OP. With the new ledge mechanics, no one would ever go for a re-grab with Ike on the stage.

 

[Ekans647]

Can't forget the D-Tilt change; went from a spike to a combo-starter.

Although if it was still a spike, Ike would be OP. With the new ledge mechanics, no one would ever go for a re-grab with Ike on the stage.

Well, now you can setup the dair with dtilt if you still want the meteor smash.

Would Ike really be that much better if dair still meteor smashed?

 

[Robin1613]

Only recently have I realized how important movement is to succeeding with this character. I implore everyone who already hasn't done so to work on making their movement with Ike as fluid as possible.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I actually believe Ike is mostly the same from Brawl. Yoshi and Bowser are definitely the most changed in this game. Ike is still about keeping his spacing with Ragnell and delivering powerful attacks for good kills. The only differences now are that his jab cancel is gone, his FSmash isn't as powerful anymore, Counter is faster, Eruption is good for edgeguarding, and he can recover better thanks to Quick Draw + Aether. Plus there's no ledgehogging, so recovery isn't futile either.

I mean like with Brawl Ike, you basically never used his tilts except U-tilt, and most of your game was Jab, and then spacing N-air/B-air. F-air was also a more all purpose punish, while in this game it's faster but more precise as a spacing tool.

Now with Smash 4 Ike, a lot more of your spacing game actually revolves around tilts and pressuring people from midrange on the ground, as opposed to relying on Jab mixups to crack defenses. It's a very different focus from Brawl especially mechanically.

Yoshi outside of jump out of shield and Jab cancel really isn't a different character from Brawl. Still a strong defensive character that has good mobility and capitalization potential that uses Jab and grab to keep people out, and Egg Lay to encourage people to not block constantly. Bowser also still basically uses the exact same tools he did from Brawl, minus the fact D-air and Bowser Bomb are actually usable in this game.

 

[Kimchi]

I mean like with Brawl Ike, you basically never used his tilts except U-tilt, and most of your game was Jab, and then spacing N-air/B-air. F-air was also a more all purpose punish, while in this game it's faster but more precise as a spacing tool.

Now with Smash 4 Ike, a lot more of your spacing game actually revolves around tilts and pressuring people from midrange on the ground, as opposed to relying on Jab mixups to crack defenses. It's a very different focus from Brawl especially mechanically.

Yoshi outside of jump out of shield and Jab cancel really isn't a different character from Brawl. Still a strong defensive character that has good mobility and capitalization potential that uses Jab and grab to keep people out, and Egg Lay to encourage people to not block constantly. Bowser also still basically uses the exact same tools he did from Brawl, minus the fact D-air and Bowser Bomb are actually usable in this game.

I definitely agree with this. There seems to be a stronger emphasis on tilts compared to Brawl and also, on our empty-hop game. Tomahawks/empty hops seem to be a huge part and while that was definitely important in Brawl as well, it seems to be more important in Smash 4 since air dodging onto the ground has ending lag now and as a result, is not viable as an approach or as a defensive retreat.

 

[-RedX-]

Dash grabbing is also improved. I find myself doing it so often in this game because the reward off of Ike's throws are great.

 

[LordShade67]

New guy here. Just thought I'd drop in since I've been picking up Ike this game. I initially played him when Brawl first came out, but dropped him for Wolf since I thought he was OP(Yeah, I know. Dumb casual mindset there, XD) and eventually Marth. Well, this game, I've decided to try out Ike and considering picking him up over Marth since despite the heavy status, he kinda feels like a fundamentals character. Unfortunately, due to my location, my experience vs. players is limited with him, but hey. We're here to learn, right?

Also, I can record, so expect vids later so you guys can criticize my Ike and stuffs.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Shameless attention seeking incoming.

Okay, I've been trying to legitimately take this character seriously (as in, not fail with him on For Glory). I've at least learned the art of securing wins with F-air/U-air edgeguards and pivot F-tilts, and I THINK I've gotten the hang of not throwing out U-smash in obviously stupid situations where I could get killed for it.

But I'm extremely sure overall I'm still bad at this character, and that doesn't make me happy because I do quite like Ike. I want to challenge someone, anyone from these boards over the weekend. Doesn't have to be Ike dittos if people here believe Ike dittos are silly (I've mostly put work in Ganon, Mario, and Doc if people were curious), but I would appreciate exposure from Smashboards Ike mains.

If you wanna risk my Canadian internet, I can face ya over the weekend as well. Besides Ike I can throw Mii Gunner and kinda Charizard at you (my Charizard game is much better with customs than without. Need dat Dragon Rush and Flame Cannon).

I do seem to kinda play Ike differently than some of the guys here by the sound: I don't do much pressuring with tilts, at least not in the way being described.

 

[A2ZOMG]

If you wanna risk my Canadian internet, I can face ya over the weekend as well. Besides Ike I can throw Mii Gunner and kinda Charizard at you (my Charizard game is much better with customs than without. Need dat Dragon Rush and Flame Cannon).

I do seem to kinda play Ike differently than some of the guys here by the sound: I don't do much pressuring with tilts, at least not in the way being described.

Works for me (I've played against TTTTTsd and Ray_Kalm to my recollection), and I'm totally fine with doing customs matches (I have everything unlocked but little opportunity to test). As I've stated before, add me at your convenience.

 

[san.]

I don't play online enough, I mostly practice against CPUs and the occasional smashfest. I'll add some of you.

Edit: Niddo's didn't work

I am also Ike + Mii Gunner.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I don't play online enough, I mostly practice against CPUs and the occasional smashfest. I'll add some of you.

Edit: Niddo's didn't work

I am also Ike + Mii Gunner.

Might be TheNiddo. I only checked my 3DS, don't wanna go all the way down to the basement to turn on the Wii U. Too lazy.

 

[Ekans647]

What other characters should you use with Ike? I run Sheik because I want to deal with projectiles and spam.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

What other characters should you use with Ike? I run Sheik because I want to deal with projectiles and spam.

There's no should. Ike is a "favorites" character anyway, and this isn't Marvel vs. Capcom. It comes down to who you like. I'm fond of using Mario, Link, Bowser, Shulk, Robin, and Mega Man myself. Plus I'll run Palutena or Captain Falcon if I'm feeling confident.

 

[Ekans647]

There's no should. Ike is a "favorites" character anyway, and this isn't Marvel vs. Capcom. It comes down to who you like. I'm fond of using Mario, Link, Bowser, Shulk, Robin, and Mega Man myself. Plus I'll run Palutena or Captain Falcon if I'm feeling confident.

What do you mean "favorites"? Im confused by your statement.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I went in FG for a few rounds. Haven't played since early Dec.

So much rust. Soooooo much ruuuuuuuuust. How does I web shot?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I went in FG for a few rounds. Haven't played since early Dec.

So much rust. Soooooo much ruuuuuuuuust. How does I web shot?

I play For Glory with the basic mindset of looking for player patterns and not getting too overzealous with tech skill. There's always stress in trying to perform well, and reminding yourself to be calm about that is always helpful.

 

[Ekans647]

I went in FG for a few rounds. Haven't played since early Dec.

So much rust. Soooooo much ruuuuuuuuust. How does I web shot?

Well the matchmaking system is ****, so you probably got paired up with someone far better. Don't worry, your skill will resurface.

 

[Baggy]

Hey everyone. Just got back home from a S@X weekly tourney (MD) and placed 13th with Ike (out of 52). It was my 3rd time ever going to a live tourney and I think I made good progress myself. Unfortunately, there wasn't a stream because GrimR was preparing for Apex.

I lost badly to Pink Fresh's Pit. Again, I wish the stream was on so I could see/show my gameplay and see what I could improve on. I struggled against his range and his speed. His normal ranges and his walk and aerial speeds make spacing him out with Ike very difficulty. Edgeguarding is also nearly improbable because of arrows.

Speedy characters are troubling in general because it's hard to get breathing room to start ike's spacing neutral game. Since he lacks mobility, rushddown characters force me to rely on shield and then it becomes a guessing game of whether or not the opponents going to dash attack or dash grab into you and mixing up the two against Ike is a surefire way to get you into a R mashy panic as the options of speedy characters is extremely hard to react to. Rolls get read, Shields get grabbed, and normals get stuffed. It's rough.

So I ask: how do you guys deal with speedy character matchups? In theory, I try to sit outside of their range and see what they do then punish accordingly. When they get on the offensive, i try to perfect shield/, jab, or roll, but it often gets overwhelming. Perhaps this is where mastering Ike's mobility comes handy. Can't practice/figure out any movement strategies that well because I dont have a wii u. Got a 2ds though.

I'd love to play some dittos/matches with any of you so I can get some critique and insight.

 

[PyroTakun]

Hey everyone. Just got back home from a S@X weekly tourney (MD) and placed 13th with Ike (out of 52). It was my 3rd time ever going to a live tourney and I think I made good progress myself. Unfortunately, there wasn't a stream because GrimR was preparing for Apex.

I lost badly to Pink Fresh's Pit. Again, I wish the stream was on so I could see/show my gameplay and see what I could improve on. I struggled against his range and his speed. His normal ranges and his walk and aerial speeds make spacing him out with Ike very difficulty. Edgeguarding is also nearly improbable because of arrows.

Speedy characters are troubling in general because it's hard to get breathing room to start ike's spacing neutral game. Since he lacks mobility, rushddown characters force me to rely on shield and then it becomes a guessing game of whether or not the opponents going to dash attack or dash grab into you and mixing up the two against Ike is a surefire way to get you into a R mashy panic as the options of speedy characters is extremely hard to react to. Rolls get read, Shields get grabbed, and normals get stuffed. It's rough.

So I ask: how do you guys deal with speedy character matchups? In theory, I try to sit outside of their range and see what they do then punish accordingly. When they get on the offensive, i try to perfect shield/, jab, or roll, but it often gets overwhelming. Perhaps this is where mastering Ike's mobility comes handy. Can't practice/figure out any movement strategies that well because I dont have a wii u. Got a 2ds though.

I'd love to play some dittos/matches with any of you so I can get some critique and insight.

I was there too, I think I saw you play last night. Unfortunately I didn't get to watch you play too much, but I'd be down for dittos if you show up early next week.

For spacing what find best is to do dash into shield cancels and empty hops with my back facing the opponent so I can throw out B-Airs which has great speed, range, and power.

I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out mobility as well, but I find Quickdraw to be good for certain follow ups or getting a punish when I'm too far for anything else.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Well the matchmaking system is ****, so you probably got paired up with someone far better. Don't worry, your skill will resurface.

I never said I lost.

I said I was rusty. There is a fairly important difference there.

 

[Ekans647]

I never said I lost.

I said I was rusty. There is a fairly important difference there.

Sorry. Regardless, you'll be fine.

So where is the sweetspot on Dair? I think it's the entirety of the Ragnell and you have to hit at a vertical angle. Is there and setups aside form Dtilt?

 

[Baggy]

Sorry. Regardless, you'll be fine.

So where is the sweetspot on Dair? I think it's the entirety of the Ragnell and you have to hit at a vertical angle. Is there and setups aside form Dtilt?

In smash 4? it's at the tip - the very bottom of the hitbox. It's more difficult to spike with it, but hitting with it at high percentages off stage is still rewarding and still often kills.

Setups for combos in general? Besides D-tilt, there's Nair and Down throw.

 

[Ekans647]

In smash 4? it's at the tip - the very bottom of the hitbox. It's more difficult to spike with it, but hitting with it at high percentages off stage is still rewarding and still often kills.

Setups for combos in general? Besides D-tilt, there's Nair and Down throw.

So it's just like every other meteor smash in SSB4? God that's annoying. I though it was the entirety of Ragnell's blade. Could some test this?

 

[Baggy]

So it's just like every other meteor smash in SSB4? God that's annoying. I though it was the entirety of Ragnell's blade. Could some test this?

Not everybody's spike has difficult sweet spots. Ganon, Mario, Rob, and DK are some examples.

But yes, it's the tip. The base knocks away. Again, it's still a strong option though. And to me, it adds more style points to us ike's for landing it now.

 

[san.]

The base of the sword still spikes at the very side edge. Think of it as only the sword hitting the opponent and not Ike's body.

 

[-RedX-]

It actually spikes a bit easier if you try to aim a little behind Ike, which is where he kinda swings his sword.
One thing I wanted to test is how many characters could be hit by Dair when Ike is above them on Battlefield's 1st level platforms. The move got a range buff compared to Brawl and some hitbox adjustments in 1.0.4.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hey everyone. Just got back home from a S@X weekly tourney (MD) and placed 13th with Ike (out of 52). It was my 3rd time ever going to a live tourney and I think I made good progress myself. Unfortunately, there wasn't a stream because GrimR was preparing for Apex.

I lost badly to Pink Fresh's Pit. Again, I wish the stream was on so I could see/show my gameplay and see what I could improve on. I struggled against his range and his speed. His normal ranges and his walk and aerial speeds make spacing him out with Ike very difficulty. Edgeguarding is also nearly improbable because of arrows.

Speedy characters are troubling in general because it's hard to get breathing room to start ike's spacing neutral game. Since he lacks mobility, rushddown characters force me to rely on shield and then it becomes a guessing game of whether or not the opponents going to dash attack or dash grab into you and mixing up the two against Ike is a surefire way to get you into a R mashy panic as the options of speedy characters is extremely hard to react to. Rolls get read, Shields get grabbed, and normals get stuffed. It's rough.

So I ask: how do you guys deal with speedy character matchups? In theory, I try to sit outside of their range and see what they do then punish accordingly. When they get on the offensive, i try to perfect shield/, jab, or roll, but it often gets overwhelming. Perhaps this is where mastering Ike's mobility comes handy. Can't practice/figure out any movement strategies that well because I dont have a wii u. Got a 2ds though.

I'd love to play some dittos/matches with any of you so I can get some critique and insight.

Quick Draw used intelligently in my experience helps a lot against speedy characters because they need to respect it. Usually I mix this up with empty hops and try my best to space N-air to cover options.

I do find Sonic and Falcon really difficult for Ike. Outside of aforementioned Quick Draw to break their rhythm, it's hard to really recommend anything in particular against them. It's important to try to play as reactively as possible against them I feel. As PyroTakun said, facing backwards while empty hopping also lets you have B-air available, which is fast enough to let you catch other characters off guard.

 

[PyroTakun]

Quick Draw used intelligently in my experience helps a lot against speedy characters because they need to respect it. Usually I mix this up with empty hops and try my best to space N-air to cover options.

I do find Sonic and Falcon really difficult for Ike. Outside of aforementioned Quick Draw to break their rhythm, it's hard to really recommend anything in particular against them. It's important to try to play as reactively as possible against them I feel. As PyroTakun said, facing backwards while empty hopping also lets you have B-air available, which is fast enough to let you catch other characters off guard.

I know the Sonic matchup isn't bad for Ike, but I definitely got bopped by Seagull on Tuesday. I'm not sure how to go about fighting Sonic in this game yet.

Falcon on the other hand is pretty difficult imo.

 

[san.]

Against speedy characters, you have to be comfortable with moving around and attacking at any angle, as well as getting used to the air->ground and ground->air transitions. Nair punishes any whiff or mistimed attack and aerials are still safe as long as they force a shield with good enough positioning. While Falcon can rack up damage on us, he's among the easiest in the game to combo, and uthrow->uair is especially easy against him at kill %. Pivot grab is also a great option against many typical dash approaches since the grab box lasts a long time, giving it decent range.

Ike and Pit's movement speed differences are not very great, so it's definitely a case of getting comfortable with Ike's movement. Ike isn't very good at standing still and intercepting unless it's against a slow character. The relative speed difference decreases when you move with your opponent vs standing still.

 

[Baggy]

I know the Sonic matchup isn't bad for Ike, but I definitely got bopped by Seagull on Tuesday. I'm not sure how to go about fighting Sonic in this game yet.

Falcon on the other hand is pretty difficult imo.

From the sonic's I've played on For Glory, I personally think what makes Sonic a bit easier is that because of his massive speed, he's either in, or very far out, which makes his approaches a little more reactable than Falcon, who on the other hand sits about mid range and then in the next .2 seconds you're in his hands. On top of that, they almost always approach with his roll, which is pretty telegraphed and constantly spammed. So I find blocks and counters very affective against him.

 

[COLDRAMEN]

Wouldn't it be funny if ike's up air had a wind hitbox, since it is the ike-copter XD

N-air to down tilt against fast fallers set ups some good strings at low percent, you guys should give it a try.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Wouldn't it be funny if ike's up air had a wind hitbox, since it is the ike-copter XD

N-air to down tilt against fast fallers set ups some good strings at low percent, you guys should give it a try.

Love that combo, reminds me of what Ganon has in this game.

Two other matchups my Ike has considerable trouble in are Lucario and Duck Hunt. Lucario gets really annoying if all he does is camp with Aura Sphere and rolls...that nonsense is actually dumb to attempt punishing reactively especially on For Glory conditions. And vs Duck Hunt...I haven't yet figured out the best way to deal with his projectiles. I know with Ganon that in some cases I can just straight up attack through his projectiles, but with Ike right now I'm stuck with trying to outmaneuver them, which by itself puts me in awkward positions.