Social "Friends being fought for!" Ike General Discussion

[Nidtendofreak]

?


Also, unless my eyes deceive me, I do believe the rocket ship Knights are gone, thank god.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaate

 

[Sol0ke]

the real question is do they have feet

 

[-RedX-]

Probably not, it's common for FE games to reuse art styles between 2-3 games and now 3D models I'm assuming. I'm digging the music so far.

Since Pair Up is returning, really hope they introduce enemy Pair Ups and/or some type of mechanic that can give a reason to not use Pair Up at times. Oh, PLEASE give more map objectives. Rekt everything on the map or Galeforce your way to the boss is kinda bland.

 

[Oblivion129]

By analyzing the trailer, I believe it's about some battle between japanese and european. I also believe the avatar character is a dragon/manakete (appears with the dancer girl in the water).
I really like the music as well.

 

[Sol0ke]

West vs east who will win?!

But I'm more interested in the choices thing. I hope it's a big factor in the story.

 

[Ekans647]

How do you guys know Pair Up is confirmed? Could a unit parralel to another block damage in past games?

 

[Arrei]

No, in past games standing nearby just gave Support bonuses. Awakening introduced having an ally jump in to block the blow. And the clip following this one shows a spellcaster of some sort attacking in tandem with an axe wielder. So either Pair Up is confirmed, or at the very least they're keeping being able to fight alongside adjacent allied units without actually Pairing with them, which would be a rather odd route to go without keeping Pair Up itself. Though I wouldn't mind if they actually made it like, a Support ability or something. And I do gotta say it looks a bit strange that we don't see Pair Up being used in the other clips, even when it shows a scene of the field map and all of the blue units are clearly by their lonesome. So who knows? I'm just gonna assume Pair Up is in until further notice, though.

By analyzing the trailer, I believe it's about some battle between japanese and european. I also believe the avatar character is a dragon/manakete (appears with the dancer girl in the water).
I really like the music as well.

Doesn't that character have his hand gripped around her throat, though? I figured he was a villain. We don't even know if there's going to be an avatar this time around.


The main thing I'm hoping for with this game is a better framerate with the 3D on. Awakening slowed down so much with it on. But I do gotta say it's pretty wicked cool how they transition from the field to the battle stage.

 

[Planet God Venus]

Okay. My concern is landing lag though. Wouldn't be a problem if we still had l-cancelling.

So can Ike play defensively? Can he excel at it, of is he more offensively based? WHat are some good ways to defensively pressure your opponent?

Ike at a high level is a threat playing defensively not offensively. Moves are way too slow to keep up.

 

[Planet God Venus]

Ike is a hidden High Tier, we just need players to show this such as Luigi has been shown....

 

[Robin1613]

I keep saying this, hes probably the most slept on character to be quite honest.

 

[-RedX-]

Ike will be slept on until he starts showing up in regionals/nationals. I wish I could go to Apex but that's not happening this year.

 

[Ekans647]

Well at least we can catch our opponents off gourd with awesome Ike play.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike will be slept on until he starts showing up in regionals/nationals. I wish I could go to Apex but that's not happening this year.

Ryo is going to a Florida wide tournament this Saturday apparently. We'll see what happens there.

 

[san.]

I was expecting an SMT demon to pop out at some point, even though I know that possibility likely failed.

 

[DarkChronos]

Ike is a hidden High Tier, we just need players to show this such as Luigi has been shown....

Unfortunately, Ike doesn't have even equal of Luigi's kill options or combo capability nor good recovery / air mobility.
He's better that his Brawl version for sure, but I really don't think he's top. Hopefully Ryo proves at Apex that I'm wrong ):

 

[san.]

Ike has better kill options, recovery, and air mobility. Combo ability is worse but that's not saying much since it's still well above average. Luigi has a very high amounts of attacks per second, while Ike follows through with 1 attack at a time, which is a hefty disadvantage.

I think QD and counter are underutilized even if they're situational. QD has low reward and counter can be baited, but it's fairly easy to land QD and counter comes out faster and lasts decently long. Veterans learned not to use them from Brawl, too, so it's easy to just not use them. I think counter may be usable out of a run or vs. a smash attack read (not as an anti-juggle), while QD is good for space control at higher percents since it can catch landings and is potent if used at short/full hop heights.

 

[DarkChronos]

What about landing?

Any anti-juggle tip?

Today I played with the best player on my town, he was using Luigi and I felt completly outplayed because the 0% ~ 60% combos (attacks per second have actually a secondary effect, increasing momentum of the dealer and "demoralizing" the receiver), and my readabilty on falls. Almost always I got grabbed easily when falling from the top of the stage. I think that's another important weakness, idk.

 

[Kimchi]

Does anyone know how many frames Ike's SH is? I looked at his frame data posted on ChocolatePi's Pastebin, but I couldn't find anything for miscellaneous moves. Curious to see if it really takes longer for Ike to FF in this game compared to Brawl or if it's because I'm not used to Ike's pacing yet.

 

[Oblivion129]

What about landing?

Any anti-juggle tip?

Today I played with the best player on my town, he was using Luigi and I felt completly outplayed because the 0% ~ 60% combos (attacks per second have actually a secondary effect, increasing momentum of the dealer and "demoralizing" the receiver), and my readabilty on falls. Almost always I got grabbed easily when falling from the top of the stage. I think that's another important weakness, idk.

I might have the same trouble with my Ike, and I see you're from South America as well so maybe we should play.

Even though Ike is my most used character, I feel like my other characters are better. Anyone else feel this?

 

[Ekans647]

I might have the same trouble with my Ike, and I see you're from South America as well so maybe we should play.

Even though Ike is my most used character, I feel like my other characters are better. Anyone else feel this?

Not really. Ike has has the spacing of Marth with the power of Ganondorf. I find he's my best.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I find Ike really stupidly hard to play as for some reason...

I don't know how else to explain it. Spacing with him is really weird, especially after the changes to his F-air, and his DA is so atypical. Also haven't found the in-game sense as to when to actually use U-smash and I just end up getting punished for throwing it out as a read when I shouldn't be.

Character is clearly good and slept on right now, just complaining that I don't personally grasp his flow yet because his move timings and applications are just very different from a lot of characters.

 

[Arrei]

Not necessarily "better", but it seems as if Ike's set of tools is just a heck of a lot more technical than other characters' are. His game begins and ends with spacing - despite being a heavyweight with vulnerability to comboing just like the others, Ike doesn't have easy and lethal punish options like Bowser has with OoS Fortress and Bowser Bomb, Flying Slam, etc., nor speed or combo game like Captain Falcon, and he's got very middle-of-the-road attributes in grab range, air speed, how long he can maintain combos off of Dthrow, etc. What he does have is long reach and the capability to rack up a lot of damage in a short period of time when he has his groove going, but when an opponent comes along to disrupt that, he has a lot more difficulty. Characters with moves that can challenge his aerials like Ness and Sheik's aerials, or very low amounts of lag to punish on their bread-and-butter moves, or similar spacing shenanigans as he employs, all turn fights into an awkward game of chicken as both players battle over that space, and Ike has to know where to hold back or he gets punished, even with something like his jab combo. Then once he gets that opening, he needs to go full aggro and make life hell for his opponent until they get back on their feet, then go back to hopping and flipping and throwing hitboxes when safe.

And goddamn, fighting short characters as Ike is a pain in the ass.



I think what I'd really love is some slightly reduced knockback growth on Dthrow for better comboing, though. Certain floatier characters like Luigi just do not like to be comboed for long, and I can't help but feel a bit salty at how so many characters can true combo out of their throws into the 100s while Ike's combos are only reliable up to mid-range at best.

 

[-RedX-]

Try playing Ike with a Marth mindset in neutral and then a Ganon mindset when you gain the advantage.

@ Arrei , if Ike could (easily) combo off throws near 100s, that would be kinda insane when you realize he has Bair. Uthrow is what you're looking for if you want true throw combos that work at high percents and could potentionally lead into kills. It's just really tough to account for when those combos would even work because of rage and character weight.

 

[Arrei]

That's why I said only slightly reduced- it's just really annoying to have a combo starter that gets so unreliable so early on, a little more consistency across character weights would be awesome.

 

[Oblivion129]

Try playing Ike with a Marth mindset in neutral and then a Ganon mindset when you gain the advantage.

That's an interesting way of viewing it. I use both of those so I'll try to implement that.

By the way, I'd really like playing you guys. So far I've mostly played people on the Shulk and Link boards.

 

[-RedX-]

I still don't own a Wii U. Lol
Was planning to get one for the next FE game but since it's coming to the 3DS...

 

[Oblivion129]

I still don't own a Wii U. Lol
Was planning to get one for the next FE game but since it's coming to the 3DS...

There's still SMTxFE... some day... some year...
And I don't mind playing on 3DS lol

 

[gsninja]

So this morning, I actually enjoyed online for the first time.

I was playing 1v1 FG against some dude named Cody or Cory for about seven games, and although I had rough button lag throughout the fights, the guy was pretty solid and even changed his tag to "NICEONE" whenever I beat him, so he was a good sport. I cycled through Ike/Marth/Lucina/Peach while he used Charizard/Marth/Shulk/Mega Man/Dark Pit.

I dunno, I usually get incredibly annoyed playing online because of lag and avoid it for the most part, but for some reason I just really enjoyed playing against this guy despite the lag.

 

[san.]

Try playing Ike with a Marth mindset in neutral and then a Ganon mindset when you gain the advantage.

@ Arrei , if Ike could (easily) combo off throws near 100s, that would be kinda insane when you realize he has Bair. Uthrow is what you're looking for if you want true throw combos that work at high percents and could potentionally lead into kills. It's just really tough to account for when those combos would even work because of rage and character weight.

That is an interesting way of putting it. Uthrow->nair at high percents is slightly easier to combo by a few frames and may kill if you get a grab on top of a high platform. There's always the good old classic bthrow into upsmash tech chase, too.

 

[DarkChronos]

I see you're from South America as well so maybe we should play.

Sorry m8, I got no wifi at the moment ):

Getting back to topic, I almost forgot to mention this: Ike's up B super armor is very weak in comparison to Brawl. I got spiked/stagespiked like 9001 times when trying to recover with it.

Side B (no custom) retains that crappy weakness from Brawl: If you hit your opponent while trying to recover with QD away from the platform, you are dead. Smart opponents can even sacrifice their first stock to finish your last this way.

It looks like "gimpeability" is still one of the main problems from the protein-based mercenary.

 

[Robin1613]

BAIR.
That is all.

 

[Oblivion129]

So this morning, I actually enjoyed online for the first time.

I was playing 1v1 FG against some dude named Cody or Cory for about seven games, and although I had rough button lag throughout the fights, the guy was pretty solid and even changed his tag to "NICEONE" whenever I beat him, so he was a good sport. I cycled through Ike/Marth/Lucina/Peach while he used Charizard/Marth/Shulk/Mega Man/Dark Pit.

I dunno, I usually get incredibly annoyed playing online because of lag and avoid it for the most part, but for some reason I just really enjoyed playing against this guy despite the lag.

I've played pretty cool people on FG, like this guy called JoJo who also used Ike and we'd taunt at the beginning of each match. He later started talking to me through his tags and said YOU'RE VERY GOOD and then ADD ME and I added him.
Or this other guy yesterday called Ham-R. We played a lot of matches. Against these guys if one of us SD'd, the other would SD as well to keep it even.

Sorry m8, I got no wifi at the moment ):

Getting back to topic, I almost forgot to mention this: Ike's up B super armor is very weak in comparison to Brawl. I got spiked/stagespiked like 9001 times when trying to recover with it.

Side B (no custom) retains that crappy weakness from Brawl: If you hit your opponent while trying to recover with QD away from the platform, you are dead. Smart opponents can even sacrifice their first stock to finish your last this way.

It looks like "gimpeability" is still one of the main problems from the protein-based mercenary.

No problem, just tell me when you have wifi.

Ike's Aether doesn't have super armor at the top of it, so that's why you can get hit. You'll have to learn how to get back on stage with the top of Aether to not get hit or countered.

About QD, if you hit the opponent with it, you can act out of it. So you'd want to do QD before using your second jump, so if they hit you, you can still double jump and Aether afterwards.

 

[Arrei]

The annoying thing about Aether's not-so-super armor is that not only is it no longer active the instant Ike begins his jump, but it's also not active at the very beginning of the move, giving you two moments of vulnerability to be wary of. Seems like Ike only has armor while he's crouched and preparing to jump.

Sure wish it could at least ledge-snap when sweetspotted like Dolphin Slash can. Frickin' FLUDD.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Side B (no custom) retains that crappy weakness from Brawl: If you hit your opponent while trying to recover with QD away from the platform, you are dead. Smart opponents can even sacrifice their first stock to finish your last this way.

Er, no.

No it doesn't.

If you swing with QD you can act again.

 

[Arrei]

Unless you count them blocking your QD far enough from the stage and with your double jump already consumed, leaving you too far away to successfully recover with Aether.


Oh, and there was one time someone hanging on the ledge caused Ike to swing, but he was both too low to grab on and too low to use Aether in time as well.

 

[Ekans647]

I just want super armor back on Ike. It would alleviate a lot of his weaknesses.

Finally finished Paralogue 23 in Awakening. At first when I saw Priam I thought he was somewhat bi-shi. Damn I was proven wrong. I hope he appears in the new game. He's an interesting character and it would be cool to get some of his backstory.

 

[meleebrawler]

Er, no.

No it doesn't.

If you swing with QD you can act again.

Well, it depends on your position, really. If you swing too low and too far you're not making it.

 

[-RedX-]

Save your jump. If you already used your jump and you swing a bit too far from the edge, you can use airdodge to avoid going into freefall and drift towards the stage a little before Aether. You shouldn't be below the edge when charging QD if you used your mid air jump before QD. Otherwise, you got gimped.

 

[Planet God Venus]

Ryo is going to a Florida wide tournament this Saturday apparently. We'll see what happens there.

He fell to Saltis ;[

 

[Oblivion129]

He fell to Saltis ;[

Eliminated or in Loser's Bracket? If there's a stream I'd like to see it.