Social "Friends being fought for!" Ike General Discussion

[Ekans647]

Honestly, it's mostly about knowing and respecting your opponent's options as necessary. Making choices that are unlikely to get punished significantly.

Or in Ike's case, that translates to keeping your opponent out with pivot F-tilt, Jab, and aerials usually as they try to get in. This is an oversimplification. But if you want a very specific tip on improving your defensive game, you should usually focus on winning games while minimizing the number of times you roll or spotdodge. The better you learn to space yourself fluidly, the stronger your defensive game will be. When you don't rely on rolls and dodges, you reduce the amount of guessing you do overall.

Thanks. That will help me a lot. How do you pivot f-tilt? Is it hard? Also, do you SH your aerials, or FH them. Do you FF your aerials as well?

You could go to a different thread for this, or pm me, I wouldn't mind playing someone good.

Thanks. I'll PM you about a match. I'm not that good though TBH.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Thanks. That will help me a lot. How do you pivot f-tilt? Is it hard? Also, do you SH your aerials, or FH them. Do you FF your aerials as well?

Just run one direction and then input F-tilt in the opposite direction. It's as simple as that. Also keep in mind that pivot F-smash is possible by hitting the C stick while turning around.

Usually you can get away mostly with SH N-airs and SH autocanceled B-airs and F-airs. Sometimes it's important to fullhop to mix up your spacing when you are unsure how your opponent will approach you. It's hard to always give specifics, just in general try your best to space reactively and accurately.

 

[Trunks159]

I feel like Ike's spacing works differently to how many think. He doesn't just throw out fairs and nairs and follow ups all day, like Brawl Marth. I try to stay on the ground, using Ikes dtilt, jabs, and grab and use nairs occasionally to approach. Fairs and nairs easily outspace others in the air.

 

[Ekans647]

Just run one direction and then input F-tilt in the opposite direction. It's as simple as that. Also keep in mind that pivot F-smash is possible by hitting the C stick while turning around.

Usually you can get away mostly with SH N-airs and SH autocanceled B-airs and F-airs. Sometimes it's important to fullhop to mix up your spacing when you are unsure how your opponent will approach you. It's hard to always give specifics, just in general try your best to space reactively and accurately.

I have a hard time using SH Bair, especially because I only play on the 3DS. could we play sometime? You know your stuff.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I have a hard time using SH Bair, especially because I only play on the 3DS. could we play sometime? You know your stuff.

I don't have a 3DS...so unless you also have the Wii-U version, not sure what we can do.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

An Ike social thread, eh? Nice touch.

I'm a huge fan of Ike, and I'm a late bloomer in the whole Fire Emblem franchise. I used Ike all the time when doing hard stuff in challenges, such as getting R.O.B. and Dark Pit unlocked, crazy orders, and pretty much all the higher level difficulties of all star and Classic modes in Brawl. I forgot what you get for clearing all star on hard with Ike on the Wii U version, but you can bet I have it.

I even preordered his Amiibo. If all goes well, I'm getting him and Sonic today when I go to GameStop to pick up Majoras Mask 3D.

 

[Xuan Wu]

So, even though SmashWiki isn't really a reliable source for information, how true exactly is the last point denoted in the red icon? Did Ike really lose range on many of his attacks? I only noticed it with F-air.

• Ike is slightly heavier.
• Ike dashes faster.
• Ike has improved air speed.
• Double jump has greater vertical height.
• The majority of Ike's attacks have less reach because of reduced hitbox sizes and altered placements.

^-^

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

So, even though SmashWiki isn't really a reliable source for information, how true exactly is the last point denoted in the red icon? Did Ike really lose range on many of his attacks? I only noticed it with F-air.

• Ike is slightly heavier.
• Ike dashes faster.
• Ike has improved air speed.
• Double jump has greater vertical height.
• The majority of Ike's attacks have less reach because of reduced hitbox sizes and altered placements.

^-^

Most likely 3DS placebo that nobody's bothered to fix. I watched a Brawl stream recently where I requested them to use Ike when they asked for who to use, and I still play Brawl Minus and Project M a lot. I don't really notice anything besides his old massive fair being what it is now.

 

[Ekans647]

So this started off as a PM for a friend explaining why I like my mains, but turned onto a full blown essay on how Ike and Greninja have great synergy. This is in no way a character analysis, rather just how two character work together. What do you guys think? Is there any flaws, incorrect facts, or information I missed otherwise?


Ike and Greninja form and an amazing competitive core. Ike possess an amazing defensive metagame, while Greninja utilizes an unique offensive style. While these two characters have some weakness individually, their partner can cover them and brings out their full potential.


Ike is the epitome of defense. Ike has long-lasting hit-boxes, large range and disjoint, high KO power, and heavy weight. Ike's aerials come out fast and last long, which prevents opponents from approaching carelessly. Ike easily place opponents into a bad position above him with D-tilt and U-throw. Once the opponent is above Ike, he can apply fantastic pressure with U-tilt, U-smash, Eruption, and Aether. Ike can also edge-guard well with F-air and Eruption.


Ike does have his flaws. Due to his lack of projectile, Ike does fair poorly against zoning characters such as Samus and Link. Their vast array of projectiles allow them to pressure Ike without risk of being pressured themselves.


Greninja is a bizarre character. Despite being a rush-down character, he plays very different from other rush-down characters, such as Sheik and Sonic. Greninja has to commit more to his attacks, while similar characters don't have to. To offset this, Greninja can KO far easier than other rush-down characters, with moves such his smash attacks, F-air, Water Shuriken, and Substitute. Greninja also has a few unorthodox moves that can mix-up his offense. Shadow Sneak can catch an opponent off-guard and can be used out of shield. D-air resets itself once it connects with a hurt-box, meaning that it'll bounce of shields and characters, making it hard to parry.


Despite all these advantages, his commitment to attacks means that Greninja is at a a disadvantage against other rush-down characters, who weave in and out of Greninja's space. They can attack when an opening is presented before Greninja can respond.


Greninja compliments Ike due to how well he can handle zoning character. While Ike has a disadvantage against zoning characters due to his lack of projectiles, Greninja thrives against them. Greninja's speed allows him to rush down zoning characters before they can deploy their projectiles and easily invade the opponent’s space. Once there, Greninja can use his strong combo game to devastate the opponent. If the opponent manages to create space, Greninja can also use Water Shuriken to continue to apply pressure from afar.


In the same way Greninja compliments Ike, Ike support Greninja by dealing with rush-down characters. Ike can pressure rush-down characters with his large range and KO power while withstanding attacks due to his heavy weight. His long-lasting attacks prevent the opponent from invading Ike’s space. However, Ike can easily invade the opponents space with his large, disjointed range. If Ike gets caught in a combo, Ike can easily shake off the opponent with Counter.


Ike and Greninja have an amazing synergy together. Ike's large range, KO power, and weight allow him to take on characters that would give Greninja trouble. Greninja can use his speed, bizarre qualities, and flexibility to beat characters that Ike might not. By pairing up characters with opposite qualities, you can use each character to a greater capacity.

 

[Ussi]

Paper is fine and all, but the question is can you use all you said in practice? Like fancy combos and stuff don't actually happen all that often. Doubles is more so about quick follow ups that are easy to do. Ike has always been good when someone can set him up for a kill. (hilariously, in brawl, double Ike is really strong when MK is not in the picture due to bthrow/fthrow > ike smash which sadly isn't the case in smash4 :<)

 

[Ekans647]

Paper is fine and all, but the question is can you use all you said in practice? Like fancy combos and stuff don't actually happen all that often. Doubles is more so about quick follow ups that are easy to do. Ike has always been good when someone can set him up for a kill. (hilariously, in brawl, double Ike is really strong when MK is not in the picture due to bthrow/fthrow > ike smash which sadly isn't the case in smash4 :<)

I should have specified, but I'm referring to a singular smasher in a 1v1 competitive environment. In a singles setting a player can adapt more easily to an opponent with characters that play opposite to their main. If your main has a bad MU, you can switch your character to gain even the MU or even tip it in your favor.

I don't play doubles. This could work in doubles though.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Paper is fine and all, but the question is can you use all you said in practice? Like fancy combos and stuff don't actually happen all that often. Doubles is more so about quick follow ups that are easy to do. Ike has always been good when someone can set him up for a kill. (hilariously, in brawl, double Ike is really strong when MK is not in the picture due to bthrow/fthrow > ike smash which sadly isn't the case in smash4 :<)

Ike's not a combo-heavy character, but he has some dumb stuff like dthrow or uthrow to Aether when both players are around 0% that's an automatic 25%. Ike has a decent amount of true combos or good follow ups in both 1v1 and 2v2, even with rage. While they're pretty much all two-hitters, he hits hard.

I find Ike really good in doubles for taking stocks easily with a partner's help and stock tanking, especially if you have a good sense of communication and a game plan with your partner. I've pulled some really plain unfair stuff in 2v1, like charging fresh dsmash while my partner pummels and then releasing when the opponent breaks out of my buddy's grab.

 

[Zatchiel]

I still kind of miss Ike's Brawl down air. But holy **** this is easily one of my most hilarious failures ever. Couldn't resist sharing.

 

[Ekans647]

I still kind of miss Ike's Brawl down air. But holy **** this is easily one of my most hilarious failures ever. Couldn't resist sharing.

What changed between Ike's D-air in Brawl and in SSB4. Good lord though, that could have been so awesome.

 

[Xuan Wu]

His D-air became rather garbage in SSB4 due to following:

1. Damage output reduced from 16% to 15%
2. Meteor hitbox is now about the tip of Ragnell
3. Lingering hitbox removed (by far the biggest nerf imo)

On the plus side, it did gain a new horizontal knockback trajectory for its non-meteor hitbox, which could be useful in certain situations; additionally, its landing lag has decreased a bit. These, for me, however, sadly do not save it from being one of his worst attacks. It was already a situational move in SSBB only to be made worse.

^-^

 

[Banjobeast158]

Ya, its so hard to get used to it, Ive only gotten like 5 meteor smashes. sometimes it can be used for people getting up from the ledge, however the landing lag kinda screws it up.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I get dair spikes almost daily now that I've gotten much better at ledge aggression. Even when it doesn't spike, I get a lot of kills off the horizontal blastzones or just put them in a better position for me to keep edgeguarding, and I'm like "I'll take it lol"

 

[Ekans647]

I get dair spikes almost daily now that I've gotten much better at ledge aggression. Even when it doesn't spike, I get a lot of kills off the horizontal blastzones or just put them in a better position for me to keep edgeguarding, and I'm like "I'll take it lol"

Would you say D-air is a bad move, or just difficult to use? I'd like to state using it.

 

[Arrei]

I'd say it's bad, difficult to use, and useful all at once. It's active for so little, has so much endlag, and is ridiculously unreliable as a spike compared to many other Dair or meteor moves, but it does remain as the only option Ike has to attack below him in the air and despite the shortcomings deals good damage and knockback, so it's pretty important to see when you have a chance to use it and slam your opponent with it when they don't see it coming.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Would you say D-air is a bad move, or just difficult to use? I'd like to state using it.

It's a really good move. I wouldn't say it's difficult, you just have to think of more applications for it than meteors. It's the only move Ike can jab lock with, it's good for tech chases since you can hover above them to avoid getup attacks while covering their roll/neutral getup, it fights juggles and you can kill a juggler (I got two stocks off a Diddy using it in the same game a few weeks ago in brackets), it hits really hard compared to all aerials in the game, and it gets stocks regardless of meteors. You also won't be using it much, so I don't think you'll ever have to worry about your last ten moves and staling or whatever with dair, and it'll free up other moves pretty well since it's situational.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I use D-air to punish inward rolls. Most damaging aerial that can cover that option.

Edgeguarding with D-air isn't awful, but usually outclassed by Eruption except in situations where you end up needing to grab the ledge to control options.

 

[Trunks159]

Theres really no reason to use dair. Someone can punish dair even if they get hit. Nair, or upsmash cover more area and are more difficult to punish. Nair can set up for all of his aerials, or a grab read. Dair imo is pretty much useless onstage.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Theres really no reason to use dair. Someone can punish dair even if they get hit. Nair, or upsmash cover more area and are more difficult to punish. Nair can set up for all of his aerials, or a grab read. Dair imo is pretty much useless onstage.

I try to, I really do but a lot of the time I end up missing because the thin hitbox at the tip or mis-read and get punished hardcore

 

[-RedX-]

IMO, The only uses for Dair is a Dthrow followup at really low percents and a spike setup after hitting Dtilt near the edge, Ryo style. It's a low risk high reward thing to go for at low-mid percents if you want that stock gone ASAP.

 

[LousyTactician]

Spoiler

It took several weeks, a few murders, and a Satanic ritual, but I got one.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Funny, mine only cost me $35 with shipping included. Got it 2 weeks ago.

Your country must have a lousy exchange rate.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Spoiler

It took several weeks, a few murders, and a Satanic ritual, but I got one.

Holy sh*t I'm jealous...

 

[Ekans647]

What's the big deal with amiibos? They're just figurines.

 

[gsninja]

What's the big deal with amiibos? They're just figurines.

They became limited. Plus, with the way people are clamoring over them, you could easily buy one then sell it off for triple the price.

 

[Trunks159]

What's the big deal with amiibos? They're just figurines.

Im not to big on them either but the Ike one looks pretty good.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

What's the big deal with amiibos? They're just figurines.

I don't care for most of them. The few I do care about are Shulk and the Fire Emblem characters.

 

[LousyTactician]

What's the big deal with amiibos? They're just figurines.

There aren't many other ways I could get an Ike or Pit figurine for only $12. Unfortunately Nintendo severely screwed the pooch when it comes to actually making any Amiibos that aren't from the Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, or Kirby series available.

 

[Robin1613]

want to friendly tonight @ san. ?

 

[Aquasition]

Considering I've never done an Ike ditto, I'd ask someone to play me, but my location used WPA2 Enterprise ;-;. Oh well, maybe some day

 

[san.]

want to friendly tonight @ san. ?

Whoops, I missed this. I was looking for matches at that time. I was testing my connection at a new location.

 

[Ekans647]

Whoops, I missed this. I was looking for matches at that time. I was testing my connection at a new location.

So would any of you guys be willing to help me improve my Ike. I'm GMT -7 and I only have the 3DS version.

 

[Sol0ke]

Ah, haven't touched my Ike in so long.

Let's see if I can get back in gear.

 

[wizardto1]

Does anyone find it ironic that Ike gained more muscle in this game yet is faster and less powerful.

 

[Sol0ke]

Does anyone find it ironic that Ike gained more muscle in this game yet is faster and less powerful.

Taking into the fact that Ike got slower (abliet a little) in Radiant Dawn, yep.
Also, on Ike's SmashWiki page, it said Ike got nerfed from Brawl. I find it quite the opposite.

 

[Arrei]

It looks like that edit was only just put in, and it's horrifically oversimplified. His power was nerfed, but I think whoever wrote that is ignorant of just how much of an improvement his game got by receiving better mobility and combo ability.