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Frame Cancel
- Thread starter Izaw
- Start date
Omega Tyrant
Smash Champion
I don't see any real use of this for Dedede unfortunately. His bair has enough hitlag to notice a significant landing lag reduction from this, but with its high horizontal knockback and Dedede's slowness, I don't think he'll get any combos off it, so it's not of any real use (unless it works on shield, which as I seen, no one still has confirmed for sure if it does or not). Dair hits grounded opponents horizontally instead of meteor smashing them up, so Dedede won't get combos off of it frame cancelled either. Then fair doesn't have enough hitlag to get much of a reduction, while its hitbox coming out from above would also make it much more difficult to frame cancel. And then nair has lowish landing lag already with low hitlag, so nair wouldn't get anything out of this except maybe extending nair to u-tilt's combo range by a few percent.
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Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
I noticed with Captain Falcon's knee that it will only work if you fast fall during hitstun (something we've said isn't necessary). I don't know why it's necessary here. But if you don't fast fall, he hovers an inch above the ground and it doesn't work.
Linkshot
Smash Hero
If you're missing by one frame either side, then you need to change when you fastfall.
kro_
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2014
- Messages
- 128
Yeah, I try, but I never get it 100% right. Are there any videos that can help me out?
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Ffamran
The Smooth Devil Mod
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- Aug 25, 2014
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Er... I think Falco can frame cancel his Fair, but I'm not sure what's going on here: https://youtu.be/Vr-aMbzQzAs. If this is true, then Falco has 3 moves he can land perfectly: Fair, Dair, and Fast Fire Bird.
Edit: Never mind this. I think he's using equipment which explains why Bair does 19% instead of the usual 13%. Still, I wonder what equipment would do to frame cancel and what moves could be frame canceled.
Edit: Never mind this. I think he's using equipment which explains why Bair does 19% instead of the usual 13%. Still, I wonder what equipment would do to frame cancel and what moves could be frame canceled.
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Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
If you listen to the sound it makes, it isn't the slashing sound. It makes the landing hit sound. So that's the landing hitbox you get when the move doesn't finish. And then combined with Smooth Lander you got this.
Just so it's out there, I believe special attacks can also proc perfect landings.
Meta Knight's Drill Rush is something I think is relatively easy to do. I've also had a SINGLE unrepeatable instance of ZSS' flip jump kick perfect landing into the ground.
Meta Knight's Drill Rush is something I think is relatively easy to do. I've also had a SINGLE unrepeatable instance of ZSS' flip jump kick perfect landing into the ground.
Ulevo
Smash Master
How would you perform this.
Times I've done it have been horizontally forward into pointing downwards towards its end, not as such that you do that 'bounce', at the last or second last hit you end up being free to move instantly after opponent knockback. If the cooldown of drill rush is actually really really low (thought this wasn't the case) then it's just confirmation bias.
PUK
Smash Ace
Does someone manage to frame cancel Zelda's LK? I know she can frame cancel her Dair, but it's not really useful in combat.
Chackaldane
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2014
- Messages
- 9
In regards to initiating a perfect landing from a special there have been time when after attempting to recover on the ledge with Captains raptor boost when I contacted the stage instead of ledge grabbing I slid a tiny bit over and from what I could tell instantly when to shield when I touched the ground. Although i know the move does have significantly reduced lag if done in the air, so this could be incorrect.
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Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
This isn't one, because you aren't actually hitting anything. You have to hit to get hitlag landing.
Chackaldane
Smash Rookie
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- Dec 15, 2014
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- 9
Haha well now I feel silly, sorry bout the false information and thanks for pointing it out to me in a friendly eay
Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
No worries. That's why frame cancel is dumb name. If this thread was calling hitlag landing everyone would know this.
ThirdDay
Smash Apprentice
Wow. It's crazy how Falco has become so popular in the past couple months. People are now realizing how good he is in a Smash 4.
Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
Who said he got popular? Or that anyone found out he was good?
ThirdDay
Smash Apprentice
Well I've just seen a lot of players using Falco in online tournaments and in For Glory lately. A lot of people know how to use him really well. I just was saying that there were more Falco players right now than I remember a couple months ago.
rekt
Smash Cadet
So....I can't seem to get Falco's Dair to work.... Any tips? I'm fast falling right when I see the hitbox for his dair... Is that wrong? It doesn't feel wrong... But it's obviously not working.
The Dair needs to hit at the same frame it's landing, it's really hard to pull off, i personnally gave up on the idea of mastering it considering how impractical it is even when you can perform it consistently since it doesn't L-cancel when done on a shielding opponent.
However Falco can L-cancel both his Nair and Fair, it's very good for comboing at low % and way easier to learn than Dair.
However Falco can L-cancel both his Nair and Fair, it's very good for comboing at low % and way easier to learn than Dair.
Nessimator
Smash Apprentice
Ffamran
The Smooth Devil Mod
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- Aug 25, 2014
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First off, don't quote a post made way, way back. We already know about this... The game outright tells you this: "Standard Air Attack – If you land just before the final attack in Falco's midair combo, you can move straight into a standard combo on the ground." It's just that before auto-link angles where added to the looping hits, before patch 1.0.8, it was impractical as people could and would fall out. From the SSBwiki: http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_tips_(SSB4-Wii_U).
Hell, the fact the game told us about this, Fox's fast fall Fair setup: "Front Air Attack – Try timing the fifth strike to hit your opponent just before you hit the ground. When your opponent bounces, that's your chance for a follow-up attack", and more is just another reminder that people do not read the manual or in this case, read the tips.
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Nessimator
Smash Apprentice
Oh whoops. I never thought it was intentionally put in. Yeah I usually don't read the tips because it's mostly stuff I already know or that is useless to me.
But are you mad at me? I'm sorry.
Ffamran
The Smooth Devil Mod
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If I sounded snippy or angry, I didn't mean too. I just wanted you to know not to quote a post way back since maybe by now, people would have figured it out. For more information on frame canceling or "frame syncing", some users in the Mechanics & Techniques thread;
Dr. Tuen
started more research initially here: http://smashboards.com/threads/mechanics-techniques-discussion.368206/page-45#post-20148854, and continued on this page as more users got involved: http://smashboards.com/threads/mechanics-techniques-discussion.368206/page-45#post-20165880. Kind of wished he had posted here instead, but I think this thread was buried.
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Dr. Tuen
Smash Lord
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- 3DS FC
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I'll happily post the sum of those results here at some point in the future! I've got a month or two left on a PhD, and that's got most of my attention right now.
In short, moves that generate hit boxes on landing frame sync automatically, a combination of a move and a fast fall trends to be necessary for frame syncing otherwise (though I can't get Falco's down air in frame advance mode... Seriously, try it), but the true phenomenon is not fully understood in my opinion.
Though from what we do know, hit lag and landing lag happen at the same time when this technique is performed, hence my preference for the term "frame syncing."
In short, moves that generate hit boxes on landing frame sync automatically, a combination of a move and a fast fall trends to be necessary for frame syncing otherwise (though I can't get Falco's down air in frame advance mode... Seriously, try it), but the true phenomenon is not fully understood in my opinion.
Though from what we do know, hit lag and landing lag happen at the same time when this technique is performed, hence my preference for the term "frame syncing."
Ffamran
The Smooth Devil Mod
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The weird thing is that the game/developers acknowledges its existence - probably before we even knew about it since nobody bothered with the in-game tips -, but doesn't explain why or give a term for it. We just end up giving terms to these phenomenons. Heck, the game even tells us about B-reverse, but doesn't actually explain it and just saying it "slides" in the case of Falco's Fire Bird.
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Sonicninja115
Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
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Can this be done with Mewtwo?
Wald0
Smash Cadet
Who is able to preform a FC?
Omega Tyrant
Smash Champion
Every character can off of any conventional aerial, though not every aerial will give worthwhile benefit. The more hitlag an aerial has, the more benefit you'll get.
Wald0
Smash Cadet
Do they have to be spikes?
Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
Nope.
Lavani
Indigo Destiny
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2014
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- 7,256
Then you effectively have no landing lag, but still can't move until hitlag ends.