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Foxy Video Library/Critique

fox67890

fox67890

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
279
Swei said:
Um, hey, I just picked up Fox about two weeks ago. I would like help, because I am not doing very well. :c

This MU is pretty hard for me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgZrUQ3d1zA
Click to expand...
Typing on my phone, so bear with me.

I saw a lot of bad choices.

First off, waaaay to much fsmash. You generally shouldn't use it all, whatsoever.

Secondly, you let yourself get taken advantage of way to much when you're in the air. I didn't see any shine stalling at all. Just simply drifting back to the stage. You gotta shine stall!

Next, a lot of reckless dairs and when you did land one, you chose the wrong option to follow up with. Certain things true combo from dair, but only until they reach a certain percent. If you dair anybody and then Dsmash at like 20%, you're going to get hurt. To see what combos when, see Uzi's stickied thread. Keep in mind though, the percents listed there are based on Mario. They would occur later on say, Snake.

Lots of reckless approaches. Remember when I said one of Fox's best approaches was skid grab(not dash grab, skid grab)? You didn't use it even once :/. Don't dash attack him at Chain grab percents (unless he's vulnerable)

MU specfic:
Vs lasers: alternate between power shielding lasers and reflecting them back. if you reflect one, you must short hop from shine immediately to maintain fluidity

Vs phatasm: utilt facing him, dash attack away from him, and dair are all reliable ways to counter it. If he's offstage, run off stage, and then jump back onstage while dairing to hit him out of phatasm reliably.

Vs his. Chain grab: reliable ways to not get CGed include auto cancel bair and reverse utilt when he's not in a position to laser you. You. An also try to counter camp until out of CG percents. If you do get CGed and spiked, make sure to use rising fair to recover.

I'm typing on my phone right now, and have to stop. I'll continue this later if I remember something and have the time
:phone:

edit: Okay back at home. There are probably grammar errors and things up there /\. If you don't understand something or need me to clarify, ask away

Other things
  • I feel like you need to work on punishing a bit better. If you shield a forward smash for instance, you can shield drop> dash upsmash for a kill/damage. You can also dash attack instead. If you feel like you reacted too late to get a guaranteed punish, don't charge in reckless anyway. At one point, you rolled through a forward smash and tried to immediately fsmash his cool down. That didn't work and instead, he spot dodged it and you got Dsmashed (almost died)
  • Work on your execution a bit (especially under pressure), whenever he had momentum, you kinda seemed to be completely out of it and just got hit for free. You also missed some auto cancels, like with short hop fair.
  • lots of rolling :x
  • Work on lasering also. A lot of the time you short hopped and just fired one laser way too high or something.
 
J

Jet300

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
707
Swei said:
Um, hey, I just picked up Fox about two weeks ago. I would like help, because I am not doing very well. :c

This MU is pretty hard for me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgZrUQ3d1zA
Click to expand...
I use to have problems with this MU when I picked fox back in 2010. Shine Falco's lasers and jump to reduce lag. If he reflects back, punish him. Try your best to get close to Falco while he's lazering so that a SH out of shine towards Falco and walk towards him a bit and grab will work. Fox's aerials are more well rounded than Falco's. Falco's Dair has better priorty than fox's Dair.
Fox Dair is good for racking up damage, but it has low priority. Fox's Uair is stronger than Falco's. It has 2 hits. One weak other one strong. Fox first hit makes it easier to connect to the second hit. Falco Uair is just one strong hit. Falco's Nair is kinda like fox's except for recovery boost that fox Nair does. Fox Nair can be use for starting a combo, approach, and edgeguard.
Falco Bair beats fox Bair because Falco's Bair is faster than fox. Fox fair is just plain better than Falco's fair. Fair is Falco's worst move and aerial. Gimping Falco on the bottom of the stage is easy because falcos fire bird does not goes a far as fox does. He can gimp easy to when fox is on the bottom of the stage, fox fire fox goes far. He is left wide open though. On the side is pretty difficult. He fake out with a illusion can to make it back to the stage safely.

Fox can also do that to Falco's too. If Falco hits fox shield with a jab, we can shield drop jab him after the first and second jab. OOS upsmash and Nair are helpful. Hope this helps.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
fox67890 said:
Typing on my phone, so bear with me.

I saw a lot of bad choices.

First off, waaaay to much fsmash. You generally shouldn't use it all, whatsoever.

Secondly, you let yourself get taken advantage of way to much when you're in the air. I didn't see any shine stalling at all. Just simply drifting back to the stage. You gotta shine stall!

Next, a lot of reckless dairs and when you did land one, you chose the wrong option to follow up with. Certain things true combo from dair, but only until they reach a certain percent. If you dair anybody and then Dsmash at like 20%, you're going to get hurt. To see what combos when, see Uzi's stickied thread. Keep in mind though, the percents listed there are based on Mario. They would occur later on say, Snake.

Lots of reckless approaches. Remember when I said one of Fox's best approaches was skid grab(not dash grab, skid grab)? You didn't use it even once :/. Don't dash attack him at Chain grab percents (unless he's vulnerable)

MU specfic:
Vs lasers: alternate between power shielding lasers and reflecting them back. if you reflect one, you must short hop from shine immediately to maintain fluidity

Vs phatasm: utilt facing him, dash attack away from him, and dair are all reliable ways to counter it. If he's offstage, run off stage, and then jump back onstage while dairing to hit him out of phatasm reliably.

Vs his. Chain grab: reliable ways to not get CGed include auto cancel bair and reverse utilt when he's not in a position to laser you. You. An also try to counter camp until out of CG percents. If you do get CGed and spiked, make sure to use rising fair to recover.

I'm typing on my phone right now, and have to stop. I'll continue this later if I remember something and have the time
:phone:

edit: Okay back at home. There are probably grammar errors and things up there /\. If you don't understand something or need me to clarify, ask away

Other things
  • I feel like you need to work on punishing a bit better. If you shield a forward smash for instance, you can shield drop> dash upsmash for a kill/damage. You can also dash attack instead. If you feel like you reacted too late to get a guaranteed punish, don't charge in reckless anyway. At one point, you rolled through a forward smash and tried to immediately fsmash his cool down. That didn't work and instead, he spot dodged it and you got Dsmashed (almost died)
  • Work on your execution a bit (especially under pressure), whenever he had momentum, you kinda seemed to be completely out of it and just got hit for free. You also missed some auto cancels, like with short hop fair.
  • lots of rolling :x
  • Work on lasering also. A lot of the time you short hopped and just fired one laser way too high or something.
Click to expand...
I'll work on that. It feels like a much safer and less sloppy game.

Anything you can tell me on the use of N-Air? Should I use it as an approach too? And what about the SH Silent Laser?
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWRJBhxh0nk&feature=youtu.be

This match is a little bit old (about 3 or even a month)...well, relatively "old". It was before I started implementing stuff to my current metagame, like the skid grab, dash grab and using reckless D-Air approaches (among other things, but those are the ones worth mentioning). I've been thinking, would it be a good idea to combine the good things of both metagames? In that match (my old metagame) I play a little bit more aggresively and variate my game more despite doing some reckless approaches (I'll discard those). With the current metagame I've implemented, I play more campy and more safe overall.
I'll get a video of my current metagame later.
 
Wusi

Wusi

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
44
Location
Germany, Duesseldorf NRW
Why are you never using uptilt strings? Kirby does break out fairly easily, but you can still follow up or just shield if you're expecting an aerial, and punish accordingly.
Perhaps you should practice on your mechanics a little, a lot of laser that showed no benefit. I know it's kirby, but you won't hit kirby with a wrongly timed shdl.
A lot of backthrow useage, downthrow has a higher damage output and generally puts the opponent in a bad position.
...Stop using Firefox as an approach(I'm guessing they're laser misclicks though), I lol'd tho good stuff
Your approach is too linear, use skid grab instead of dash grab. You dash into kirby and shield way too often. If you're gonna approach (Kirby is supposed to do that, though it's okay to play aggressively as Fox) then try to mix it up a little, jump out of your dash into crossup dair/nair/bair! Empty hop! Fullhop above him and shine a little, see what he does! shorthop airdodge away from him! There's a lot of things you can do from jumping.
Punish Kirby's mistakes! He whiffed bair quite a lot, the timing to punish it can be pretty strict and he could just input another bair to cockblock you, but most of the time he was above you. It's the best position to be in as Fox.
You don't seem to have much of an aerial game. I've seen groundgame for 80% of the match. Fox is a combo machine, and people who aren't well informed about Fox usually get stringed to death. Stringing autocanceled upairs, punishing airdodges, his landing, whatever. Fox is extremely scary to people once he's below. Don't overdo it though, an empty shorthop will sometimes do the trick when they panic fastfall aerial or airdodge. It can be a guaranteed upsmash for Fox.
Widen your Out of Shield options. You usually grab when your shield gets poked, but Kirby is one of those chars that like to push you around just by poking your shield. Your grab won't reach. If his aerial is not spaced, you can sometimes grab, even OoS Upsmash. What I like to do though, is shorthop OoS and dair or whatever.

not sure if I typed walloftext, lolquickreply
Hope this helps though!
 
Wusi

Wusi

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
44
Location
Germany, Duesseldorf NRW
ima do the falco one

you're getting grabbed way too easily, ya should try spaced nairs or mixing some crossups in, perhaps even grabbing before he can
kismet was very jab happy, both first hit and 2hit jab can be oos usmashed
don't rising fair against a falco who is standing literally next to the ledge
your di was lol especially at 0:27, what happened?
game 2 was what. he grabs you without breaking a sweat and you died due to bad di again.
the key thing in this matchup is to not get grabbed and to punish falcos landing into edgeguard. know what you can punish also, and don't spotdodge next to him/jab him at cg percentage.
you rely on double jab cancel to shine too much. don't do that. at some point i think kismet was sandbagging. to say the least, don't djc at all when you're in cg percentage. don't get grabbed, that's all.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
Wusi said:
Why are you never using uptilt strings? Kirby does break out fairly easily, but you can still follow up or just shield if you're expecting an aerial, and punish accordingly.
Perhaps you should practice on your mechanics a little, a lot of laser that showed no benefit. I know it's kirby, but you won't hit kirby with a wrongly timed shdl.
A lot of backthrow useage, downthrow has a higher damage output and generally puts the opponent in a bad position.
...Stop using Firefox as an approach(I'm guessing they're laser misclicks though), I lol'd tho good stuff
Your approach is too linear, use skid grab instead of dash grab. You dash into kirby and shield way too often. If you're gonna approach (Kirby is supposed to do that, though it's okay to play aggressively as Fox) then try to mix it up a little, jump out of your dash into crossup dair/nair/bair! Empty hop! Fullhop above him and shine a little, see what he does! shorthop airdodge away from him! There's a lot of things you can do from jumping.
Punish Kirby's mistakes! He whiffed bair quite a lot, the timing to punish it can be pretty strict and he could just input another bair to cockblock you, but most of the time he was above you. It's the best position to be in as Fox.
You don't seem to have much of an aerial game. I've seen groundgame for 80% of the match. Fox is a combo machine, and people who aren't well informed about Fox usually get stringed to death. Stringing autocanceled upairs, punishing airdodges, his landing, whatever. Fox is extremely scary to people once he's below. Don't overdo it though, an empty shorthop will sometimes do the trick when they panic fastfall aerial or airdodge. It can be a guaranteed upsmash for Fox.
Widen your Out of Shield options. You usually grab when your shield gets poked, but Kirby is one of those chars that like to push you around just by poking your shield. Your grab won't reach. If his aerial is not spaced, you can sometimes grab, even OoS Upsmash. What I like to do though, is shorthop OoS and dair or whatever.

not sure if I typed walloftext, lolquickreply
Hope this helps though!
Click to expand...
Yeah, my current metagame with Fox seems too linear...I've tried adapting skid grabs and dash attacks into my game, but in exchange, lost some of the aggro juice I had when I was a more newbie Fox. I'd like to get it back while keeping the good stuff of my current game. :urg:
Could you check out my other video (the one against Snake)?
 
fox67890

fox67890

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
279
Swei said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7-mitXMK4I&feature=youtu.be

**** the other video. This one is new and I do different stuff.
I'd like critique, please.
Click to expand...
[COLLAPSE="critique"]Okay, I got time now.

Kirby MU...uh...this MU is a bit more technical than most. For the sake of time, I'll focus on more of what you could have done better rather than on MU stuff.

Your lasering needs serious work :|. Idk if you were trying to SHTL and perhaps you did a firefox accidently...I don't know. But, in my opinion, it's waaay better to do clean SHSL than a bad SHDL. If you can't SHTL, I recommend just sticking to single lasers for now. There were lots of punishable mistakes in your lasering.
Ok, I see some skid grabs. Great. Sometimes it seems like you messed up the inputs and did dash grabs instead. Work on that a bit. You seemed to do a bit better towards then end though.
  • Upon watching this again slowly, I think you might have the inputs for skid grab mixed up a bit.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPVB4-NLlsQ
    I think you might be simply dashing>Shield>Grab when it should be Dashing>Skid>Shield>Grab. I actually sometimes accidentally do the first one also, but I don't grab immediately such that a shield grab rather than a dash grab will come out (see video). If the second method is too hard for now, then you can do what I said.
Your recovery and how you handle yourself when you were in the air above your opponent have greatly improved since the last video I watched. It could still use a lot more work, but it's certainly better. The only things I would say for now is to learn the timing to cancel illusion.
Way to many rolls. Great Kirbys especially would destroy that. If you ever feel pressured when in shield, simply short hopping out of shield and away is pretty good. I love doing this.
You seemed a bit slow on you punishes.
Like Wusi said, your approaches are bit predictable. He gave some good advice there I think. I'd like to add that short hopping around your opponents burst range is good.


quick note about MU: Kirby's bair is relatively hard to punish if he does it in a particular fashion. I feel like you tried to shield grab these types of bairs even when they weren't punishable.
Kirby has a...somewhat lethal chaingrab on fox from 0%-20% (somewhere close to 20%, can't remember). Lot's of reckless approaches are those percentages, which really isn't good. He actually did grab you at cg percents at one point, but didn't do the chaingrab right.

About this loss of combo ability note, I think it's just that you didn't carry it out well. Sort of like, your would throw kirby away with bthros/fthrow (I recommend to mostly use dthrow) and then refuse to follow up every time and instead go back to lasering. There also weren't many times when you took advantage when you dash attacked him. Most of your damage came from throws and maybe some laser damage.

A bit of a conclusion note: work on lasering, mixing up approaches, less rolls, and know when to switch from defensive to offensive. Well... maybe not so much switch from defensive to offensive, but rather when/how to stay in offensive (and continue to stay in that phase).

[/COLLAPSE]
lionarmor said:
I was wondering if I could get some critique on certain characters

vs Ike(skip to game 2)
vs Falco
Click to expand...
[COLLAPSE="critique"]


Running somewhat short on time, so I'll talk about vs Falco only since I know that MU better.

Yeah, you get chain grabbed to much. Don't put yourself next to him willingly in chain grab percents. In fact, it seems like you know how to short hop out of shine (good!), but you do it incorrectly a lot. just try to master that technique. Next time, try to counter camp until you get out of chaingrab percents (Fox and Falco don't camp each other too well, but you can still have both of your percents rise until you get out of chaingrab percents).
. *If your close to Falco, but he's not in the position to laser/grab you, auto cancel bair is good
With that said though, I'm not going to lie, even though you can OoS upsmash between jabs, Falco has a lot of mix ups in that situation that I have a hard time to deal with. I personally go in with a burst option (outside of chaingrab percents), and if I'm stuck in a CQC situation, I try to get out with Back roll or something (there's enough time to back roll I believe. For the sake of DI, I think usually use cstick to back roll while being ready to DI with control stick if necessary). If you feel like you can beat him in that situation though, that's good I guess. I definitely don't recommend challenging him in CQC while in chain grab percents though.

I think that was your main issue- you got way too pressured in close combat and put yourself in that situation (while in chain grab percents) to much of the time.

DI was kinda bad.
Um... about that fsmash after Falco's dthrow a bunch of times, were you holding shield? I think you could shield it, but I'm not 100% sure.

Your last stock game 3- If you are ever in that situation were you could get hit by lasers when you airjump/rising fair, it's usually best to not shine the lasers. One thing you could do is go under them> shine stall> and then when there is a gap in lasers, use rising fair then.

You seem to know the fundamentals of edge-guarding Falco. Cool~[/COLLAPSE]
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
I realize that match was pretty crappy and linear when it came to approaches. I'm fixing that trying to adjust a more variated game while taking advantage of his best approaches (skid grab and dash attack).

What do you think of making a wall with F-Airs and using B-Air as some sort of spacing move? I'm defenitely using aerials more- And D-Air, I'm using it only when I have the chance (I Shine stall and try to land behind them or give me a frame advantage for a grab if I land in front of them).

Thanks for your advice so far.
 
fox67890

fox67890

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
279
Fair works to some extent depending on the MU in my experience. It works well, for instance, vs Wario and usually taller characters like D3.
I wouldn't try to wall with fair almost at all vs smaller characters like Kirby though, since if you're autocanceling it (which should be done), none of the kicks from Fair will hit because all the kicks will be above Kirby's head.

Bair can work, but it's somewhat tricky to space and move around with...somewhat(well, it is for me). If the character is tall enough, autocancel it or fast fall it if it feels right (I'm not really sure how to explain that last part. I think Tkd once said it's better to fast fall it if you want to maintain your position on stage). If he/she isn't tall enough (like Kirby and say... MK), then you kinda have to fast fall it so it'll hit, which isn't really too bad (unlike it is with fair) since it's relatively safe on wiff and block.

But as far as spacing goes, it usually best to remember that with fox, his best defense is mobility and shield. Not so much spacing with aerials. Don't be afraid to use them though if it fits the situation.

This is all imo.
 
fox67890

fox67890

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
279
Oh?
I haven't seen your Fox in a loooong time.

Are the videos of that match still available to watch?
 
L

lionarmor

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
24
Hey everyone, thanks for the critiques

I do put myself in bad positions when im trying to find a way to approach. When fighting almost anyone I get way to much percent first stock trying to make hard reads or do other risky tactics.

Is there a good way to stay safe with Fox? Not for approach necessarily, like auto cancel bair. The only thing I could find is lasers and careful spacing/running away.
 
C.R.Z

C.R.Z

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,251
Location
London
trumptight said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMdLkrGUPaM

critique please..So that I win next time...
Click to expand...
lol havent done this in a long time :p

why are you spot dodging? fox isnt meant to spot dodge, your panicking.
your camp game needs to step up quite alot, even if you cant triple lazer yet you should be double lazering or single. you need to force snake to do something, even if he crouches it gives you an easier approach, otherwise your just taking big risks.

Practice your landing punishes, snake is hella easy to punish when hes in the air. there are lots of things you can do, think about it more and utilize what fox does best.

standing lazer? really?

auto cancel please, practice it till you dont screw it up ever

snake cant do much against air shine into spaced falling bair, abuse it


only watched the first match, cba to do the rest. dont know why everyones screaming, you can do better, keep practicing :)
 
trumptight

trumptight

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
299
Location
Being the Captain on the Great Fox
C.R.Z said:
lol havent done this in a long time :p

why are you spot dodging? fox isnt meant to spot dodge, your panicking.
your camp game needs to step up quite alot, even if you cant triple lazer yet you should be double lazering or single. you need to force snake to do something, even if he crouches it gives you an easier approach, otherwise your just taking big risks.

Practice your landing punishes, snake is hella easy to punish when hes in the air. there are lots of things you can do, think about it more and utilize what fox does best.

standing lazer? really?

auto cancel please, practice it till you dont screw it up ever

snake cant do much against air shine into spaced falling bair, abuse it


only watched the first match, cba to do the rest. dont know why everyones screaming, you can do better, keep practicing :)
Click to expand...
TY!!!! I'll take all the advice
 
fox67890

fox67890

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
279
I've actually seen your Fox before. It's pretty impressive imo(probably best/favorite Fox in Europe I've seen). You did relatively well vs Mr.R also. I expect great things~
 
knuckles213

knuckles213

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
654
Location
Up smashing your girlfriend
you fox is really good man, I'm trying to do the best I can to rep too, but my state/area sucks if your trying to improve or trying to get known. A lot my matches dont get saved enough or cant get save so that I can post to. we need more foxes out there to rep man.
 
Sodrek

Sodrek

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 15, 2012
Messages
73
Yeah your right knuckles we need more foxes! In europe it's very rare that someone plays fox x)
 
crifer

crifer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
1,078
Location
Germany, Koblenz
you´re played pretty good, but to be honest cranky isnt good at all and really predictable ^^
I really like your pressure and reading though :-)
 
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