§witch
Smash Lord
FD is a main counterpick VS ZSS. Lasers screw her over badly. Easier to keep good spacing etc.
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Of course, I mean to mix it up. I said utilt might beat it, but in that case, you can call it out with a shine stall...not that big of a deal, really. Yeah, don't be predictable...got it, but it's still quite viable.Dair is not that good against Zamus. Utilt out of shield makes Fox a sad vulpine. Pivot dsmash is even scarier if you're being predictable about it.
I was not listing kill moves...I was listing ones that actually come into play in a real match....without dsmash first, of course. Ones that are viable with dsmash. Fair is indeed good, however, it can be DIed up quite well, so it's efficiency is beat pretty badly there. It can kill, and it's good in certain situations, but Zamus players will usually try the bair when they're trying to kill. PLasma whip, to be honest, isn't that good against Fox. Played correctly, I believe almost every whip should be punished with a smash...because Fox can run inside it and shield smash it easily. Yeah, it's great for spacing, but it's REALLY beatable.Zamus has four potential KO moves against Fox: bair, fair, Plasma Whip, Flip Jump. Bair should scare the crap out of you for several reasons. Dsmash -> fair should be horrifying if you're off the ledge, Plasma Whip will give you headaches (can't be reflected). Dsmash -> Flipkick. Kills. People.
No, I agree with you here...she can stay out there for a LONG time and still make it. She is easier to gimp with Fox than about 60% of the cast is, though.Zamus is actually good off the stage, and you will be surprised at how hard she is to gimp what with a huge second jump, Flip Jump and Flipstooling. Be prepared for aggressive edgeguarding.
I'm not convinced this is a true infinite...I really don't know what to think here...Dsmash chain is not an infinite, but you cannot SDI it. You can only use regular DI until well over 100%. This will have two effects: it will fully refresh bair, and it will set you up for Dsmash -> bair combos. Don't kid yourself; if a good Zamus lands a dsmash on you, you can kiss that stock goodbye.
no no, I'm not taking offense or anything...I just want to clear things up, too. I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel on this match, though.I hope this doesn't come off as too confrontational. I just want to make sure these points are clear. Fox has several strengths in this match-up, but they're just not enough.
Like I said. In the strictest sense of of the word, "infinite," it's not one. But it's inescapable up to around 100% if the dsmash is stale. It has already undergone extensive testing in the ZSS community. The only way you can get out is if the ZSS player messes up.I'm not convinced this is a true infinite...I really don't know what to think here...
2-8 would be a bit heavy-handed. 3-7 is more along the lines, simply because Fox can KO Zamus and combo her well enough, despite her massive advantage.harsh, but thems the facts i guess. :/ looks liek another 2-8 matchup or at least 3-7.
what... i know this is on ZSS atm but still...Sonic-This fight can be just plain annoying. "Your too slow!". Thankfully, your the 3rd fastest character, so you can somewhat keep up with him. Hes easy to combo and kill. His Dsmash cannot be spotdodged or shieldgrabbed. He has good vertical reovery, keep it in mind. You outprioritize him overall. Take advantage. Besides his speed, all sonic really has is a good bair.
It was just a quick skim. I havent done too many fox vs sonics, sine most people dont play sonic competitively...I was going on my few experiences. Like I said, all of the descriptions are basic untill the advanced discussion is done.what... i know this is on ZSS atm but still...
Easy to combo? easy to kill? outprioristize him overall? Im not going to go into detail here, but surely you can come up with a better analysis than that. Do a little research and you'll find spring makes combos on sonic practically impossible, fast as all hell with an ungimpable recovery and very good roll-dodge makes killing sonic hard, and he outranges fox in the air and on the ground with multiple attacks.
Is there frame data for this? I'm almost positive it's escapable after 60%, just difficult.Dsmash chain is not an infinite, but you cannot SDI it. You can only use regular DI until well over 100%. This will have two effects: it will fully refresh bair, and it will set you up for Dsmash -> bair combos. Don't kid yourself; if a good Zamus lands a dsmash on you, you can kiss that stock goodbye.
lolwut?im not sure if this was said but some dude posted about this thread in the metaknight boards and some other guy mentioned foxs dair to usmash. every single move fox does after his dair can be powershielded by metaknight or by (im pretty sure) any character. now foxs dair to grab, which i havent seen done, i think would be inescapable seeing that the only way to avoid any of the other attacks is with a grabable shield but then again the shielding character could probably grab fox first. again im not sure if this was all mentioned i just wanted to make sure everyone knew that any dair combo with fox to a character on the ground can just be powershielded.
im not sure if this was said but some dude posted about this thread in the metaknight boards and some other guy mentioned foxs dair to usmash. every single move fox does after his dair can be powershielded by metaknight or by (im pretty sure) any character. now foxs dair to grab, which i havent seen done, i think would be inescapable seeing that the only way to avoid any of the other attacks is with a grabable shield but then again the shielding character could probably grab fox first. again im not sure if this was all mentioned i just wanted to make sure everyone knew that any dair combo with fox to a character on the ground can just be powershielded.
No, and the frame data proves it.no i know for a fact that metaknight can powershield any of foxs moves after his dair.