Fox - Guide and Discussion Thread

[Sangoku]

Mahie are you still awake at that hour or already awake (if you see what I mean)?

And ballin could you explain a bit deeper what that 3d thing is?

 

[th3kuzinator]

The laser travels on one plane which is what most of the game is run at. During some moves the character's hurtbox actually moves left or right on a second plane thus projecting the hurtbox into 3d space and avoiding the lazer.

@Mahie, its probably the above. His turnaround animation has no invincibility frames.

 

[The Star King]

Update on DK's "Taunt dodge" glitch: DK does not in fact use his ducking hitboxes for his taunt.

I think there is, however, an alternate explanation...

These words may be truer than you think. If you look carefully, DK's head projects out of the plane considerably during his taunt (his whole body is slanted toward us). If Fox's lasers only travel along the one centered plane, it might be that DK's head is stuck out just far enough to dodge it. As for his hands, well, they are simply not there.

why dun you test it with a laser next to his hitbox head THEN

looks like my BOOM adapter came in handy XD

From the Social Thread, a long time ago.

 

[Ocean]

that's really interesting. the more you know.

 

[SheerMadness]

My whole fox game is based upon low lasers. Tech chasing, shield pressure, combos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETJU10ZYVSo&feature=channel_video_title

 

[Sangoku]

Thanks star king!! I didn't know this had already been discussed.

Why hasn't it been added somewhere? Like in the hitbox thread.

 

[The Star King]

I wouldn't go about using foxs dair as an edge guard too often either lol...

IDK about Mario's Down-B, but Fox's dair is an underrated edgeguarding tool IMO.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Underrated perhaps, mixing it in with the other options is the real key.

But my initial statement was more towards the fact that i think there are better options in most situations.

 

[ciaza]

Depends if we're still talking about DK specifically here. If the DK comes in low enough to grab the ledge, e.g so low that a fox Fsmash would miss, the dair is probably the simplest and most effective aerial to take out the DK for good.

At low percents other aerials would give DK another shot at recovering and probably allow him back to the stage in most cases. DSmash risks getting hit by invinvibility frames as well as the Dk to reverse ledge DI on DL.

 

[Surri-Sama]

PROACTIVE JUST FOR YOU MOOGLE!

anyways When DK is coming from low enough to grab the edge, if you Dsmash at the right time they shouldn't be able to DI off the wall, and if you time it wrong (as you can with anything) and they do DI off the wall they are not going to be in a much better position and a 2nd Dsmash would suffice, no?

Im just thinking Dair is kinda high risk for what it's worth.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Yeah, but if you hit those invincibility frames <_<

Also, if he has the room, he can move away from the ledge slightly (dodging your dsmash) and simply return to grab the ledge.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Don't both of those situations also apply to Dair?

 

[th3kuzinator]

No. Attacking from above bypasses the invincibility frames in his swinging arms, while attacking from the side is tough.

 

[ciaza]

Dair will normally hit on the head of DK away from the invincibility frames. Also since it doesn't have as much ending lag as DSmash you can do another dair if the DK moves away from the ledge slightly and comes back.

EDIT: ninja'd by Kuz.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

why don't you guys weak bair him

 

[ballin4life]

We're talking about dair while remaining on the stage the whole time, right?

In that case, dair -> shine spike and low ftilt -> shine spike work pretty well against several characters.

 

[Mahie]

We're talking about dair while remaining on the stage the whole time, right?

In that case, dair -> shine spike and low ftilt -> shine spike work pretty well against several characters.

You can add Dash attack to the list. Not as good on DK though ( Invincibility yay), but it works very well against Fox ( Dash attack => Shine during upB start up)

@Surri : you can DI onto the wall from anywhere within the Dsmash range.

 

[Surri-Sama]

@Surri : you can DI onto the wall from anywhere within the Dsmash range.

Yes im sure you can, but Dair wont let you kill anyone or even lead to you to a positive position.

what i HAD said about the wall DI was that it doesn't always save you and can actually lead your death just as much as not DI off the wall would have. Point being wall DI doesn't = recovering.

just test using Dair to defend vs someone who knows how to recover. It'll change your mind.

 

[dandan]

though if you know how to reverse ledge di pretty consistently, it could lead to recovering pretty often.
though i feel fox dsmash's di window is smaller than pika's fsmash for example, and thus, harder to input the needed commands for reverse ledge di.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Dsmash / Fsmash will still help you 100x more then dair ever will lol.

 

[ciaza]

Again, it depends if we are still talking about edgeguarding solely a DK, which I think most people were. A dair on a low recovering Dk will send give him just enough hitstun and send him low enough to the point he doesn't have enough vertical recovery in his up-B to get back again.

 

[Surri-Sama]

actually i am talking about DK, and dairing him wont push him far enough down (tested) and it can hit the arms leaving you in a bad place (also tested).

 

[th3kuzinator]

LOL

tested? you mean the matches vs me yesterday? Yeah, I told you I would be using that edgeguard on you so you never recovered low. Then, because I felt like being stubborn, I tried to do it to you when you were recovering high and you got out of it.

 

[Surri-Sama]

lol hold your ground man....

I recovered as i needed to, dont be so foolish kuzi the Dair never came up because it's of no use, and when it did (because i did have to recover low from time to time) you used it and it didn't push me far enough away. You always ended up switching to Fsmash... every time.

You also tried it once and struck the arms, as i said.

 

[th3kuzinator]

The dair never came up because you never recovered in a place I needed to dair you. I was just being stubborn and did it anyway, hence it not working.

And yeah, i hit your arms once, considering I was jumping straight at you horizontally.

 

[Surri-Sama]

lol so now its about the fact that Dair can be used once in 300 matches that makes it better then Fsmash / Dsmash?

The situations that came up where like any normal game. I know how to recover so i wont just chill around the edge waiting for that Dair or anything else you could throw at me.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Nope. Its the fact that if a dk recovers low (low enough that he would sweetspot the ledge vertically), the dair is a viable option and will kill the dk. You always recovered higher than that, DK's arms being above the stage itself, that a dair would be useles from that position. And yeah, fsmahes work much better from that angle, because they get under the swinging arms more.

The way you recovered just limited my use of dair specifically, but let me use fsmash instead. If you had not consciously been recovering high to avoid my dair to prove a point, the dair would have been more useful. Ya dig?

 

[Surri-Sama]

no i dont dig as i wasn't doing anything to avoid it i was recovering as i normally would.

I suppose this means Dair is only good on people who perfectly sweet spot the ledge with DK every time.

 

[ciaza]

It was a biased test Surri, in an acceptable test the edguardee (yeah I'm inventing a word) should of been unaware of the tactics going to be used against him. I'm willing to bet consciously or subconsciously you took the necessary precautions to avoid that dair. I've played enough matches to know it's effectiveness.

 

[th3kuzinator]

No. lmao. I know how you are trying to defeat this by saying that dair only works on the one in a lifetime dk recovery. Thats not the case.

When I play DK, I recover that low fairly often, especially when I don't have the distance to weave back and forth before reaching the ledge. During those times, the dair is useful and does work.

You probably did adjust your play to avoid the dair, thought I don't know whether that was conscious or unconscious.

 

[Mahie]

If you're recovering from too high > Laser laser laser laser until you get low enough > Dair.

And Dair is better than Fsmash in this case because it sends down, DK covers a loooot of horizontal distance with his upB while his vertical recovery sucks. You can kill him with a Dair in that set up at any %, with an Fsmash you'll need him to be at a much higher %.

 

[Surri-Sama]

I've played enough matches to know it's effectiveness.

Yeah im new sorry.

I am done here though you guys arguments have become vury silly (its all in mah head? xD)

The way i recovered is the same way i always recover with DK and i do so for specific reasons.

I find it funny you guys think i'd actually avoid the real result in order to be right. I'm actually trying to get better and am fully willing to admit my errors.

 

[ciaza]

Edit: Nevermind.

 

[Battlecow]

Hmmmm... I've been Dair'd to my death by fox as DK many a time. Then again, I've been smashed pretty often as well... They're both viable options, IMO, and which is "better" depends entirely on the situation. The real question should be "which edgeguarding opportunity comes up more often- one where Fsmash/Dsmash works best, or one where Dair works best?"

 

[The Star King]

@Surri Then it doesn't work specifically on you because you recover kind of high, which leaves you open to other stuff. A lot of DKs recover low because it is safer vs. many characters, and that's when Fox's dair is effective.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

When you start recovering higher vs fox, you're going to be receiving a lot more bairs from fox.

 

[tc29]

Do you guys have any tips for teleport Usmashes? I can teleport pretty consistently with fox but I don't get how to cancel it with the Usmash. Any help would be great.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Well, to teleport you need to need to be in a full run in one direction and then you need to quickly input the opposite direction and jump.

Instead of jumping, do a usmash during that input period and it should work.

Idk if you're using a controller or KB, but you obviously cannot usmash with a cbutton so make sure you cancel it with the analog up input.

 

[tc29]

Oh ok that makes a lot more sense. I thought you still had to hit the c-button and then Usmash really fast after that

 

[th3kuzinator]

Has anyone tried doing ftilt --> tele usmash at medium to highish percents on floaties?

I was just playing around with it in training mode and it looks pretty cool.