Forums vs. Subreddits

[Dan Salvato]

After hanging around here, I've been thinking about the inefficiency of the "message board" system. As I see it, there are a lot of problems:

- No post/reply hierarchy; strictly linear
- Post content is irrelevant in its place on the page
- Posts between the first and last page are rarely read, no matter how informative
- Top posts are those with the most recent comment rather than the hottest status
- Checking for responses to yourself in a popular thread is difficult

Having a subreddit page solves most or all of these problems. I think the standard "forum" system is becoming more and more obsolete as the years pass.

Of course, a subreddit does lack some features a forum includes, such as signatures, profiles, and rich text editing. However, I was simply using subreddits as an example of organizing information in a much more useful and informative manner.

Thoughts?

 

[Rici]

I find reddit / subreddits incredibly annoying to read.

 

[Teran]

- No post/reply hierarchy; strictly linear

I like this.

- Post content is irrelevant in its place on the page

That's not really an issue if place on the page and post content aren't supposed to/expected to be directly correlated.

- Posts between the first and last page are rarely read, no matter how informative
- Top posts are those with the most recent comment rather than the hottest status

Maybe if you're an idiot. Still it depends on how long the thread is I suppose.

- Checking for responses to yourself in a popular thread is difficult

No it isn't, just namesearch.

Having a subreddit page solves most or all of these problems. I think the standard "forum" system is becoming more and more obsolete as the years pass.

I don't.

Of course, a subreddit does lack some features a forum includes, such as signatures, profiles, and rich text editing. However, I was simply using subreddits as an example of organizing information in a much more useful and informative manner.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Basically what Rici said.

Edit: I just realised I'm debating with Internet Explorer, time to turn up my firewall.

 

[eighteenspikes]

After hanging around here, I've been thinking about the inefficiency of the "message board" system. As I see it, there are a lot of problems:

- No post/reply hierarchy; strictly linear
- Post content is irrelevant in its place on the page
- Posts between the first and last page are rarely read, no matter how informative
- Top posts are those with the most recent comment rather than the hottest status
- Checking for responses to yourself in a popular thread is difficult

Having a subreddit page solves most or all of these problems. I think the standard "forum" system is becoming more and more obsolete as the years pass.

Of course, a subreddit does lack some features a forum includes, such as signatures, profiles, and rich text editing. However, I was simply using subreddits as an example of organizing information in a much more useful and informative manner.

Thoughts?

All of this goes out the window when you realize this system panders to the meme spewing attention starved groupthink manchildren who infest reddit, youtube, and other websites where an upvoted comment just means it gets posted more often and a controversial topic gets downvoted into oblivion by the thin skinned.

 

[Dan Salvato]

All of this goes out the window when you realize this system panders to the meme spewing attention starved groupthink manchildren who infest reddit, youtube, and other websites where an upvoted comment just means it gets posted more often and a controversial topic gets downvoted into oblivion by the thin skinned.

You make a fair point, but I imagine a board like this sorted in default by new posts/comments first, with the option of viewing the top posts. This way you'll be reading the latest comments and posts by default while being able to view the top posts if you wish.

Voting systems are dependent on the community, and I think the Smash community would do a good job of upvoting accordingly informative posts.

 

[eighteenspikes]

Voting systems are dependent on the community, and I think the Smash community would do a good job of upvoting accordingly informative posts.

There used to be a Karma system here. It got removed back in like... 2006? because there was a lot of karma trading and gimmicks where admins gave a ton of karma (positive or negative) to "celebrity" users as a joke.

 

[Firus]

All of this goes out the window when you realize this system panders to the meme spewing attention starved groupthink manchildren who infest reddit, youtube, and other websites where an upvoted comment just means it gets posted more often and a controversial topic gets downvoted into oblivion by the thin skinned.

This is really all that needs to be said for why a forum system is better.

You make a fair point, but I imagine a board like this sorted in default by new posts/comments first, with the option of viewing the top posts. This way you'll be reading the latest comments and posts by default while being able to view the top posts if you wish.

Voting systems are dependent on the community, and I think the Smash community would do a good job of upvoting accordingly informative posts.

The problem is that voting systems automatically attract that attention-***** mentality. The Smash community is, in my opinion, better suited to vote on comments than the YouTube community (since YouTube is pretty much everyone), but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't give way to some of that mentality. Even if seeing the top posts is only an option, everyone still wants to be the top-rated comment, and when people disagree with something they'll rate it down like hell.

Forums are for people who want to have a discussion. That kind of format? That's for, as eighteenspikes said, "meme spewing attention starved groupthink manchildren." Personally, I prefer discussion.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Reddit, for the most part, has an incredibly dumb, annoying, immature and misogynistic userbase that I would rather not associate with. Oh yeah, and it's a community that fosters ephebophiles which is also something that I would rather not associate with.

 

[Dan Salvato]

The problem is that voting systems automatically attract that attention-***** mentality.

What about if post/comment score were to be completely hidden, but still influential in post position? I think that would more or less solve the problem.

 

[Teran]

it's a community that fosters ephebophiles which is also something that I would rather not associate with.

Hey look man you may like wrinkles on your lover but I like my partner to be flawless. >:x

 

[theeboredone]

Irrelevant, but funny how Reddit was recently in the news for letting people talk about child pornography. Their refusal to shut the forum/topic down until actual pics started being posted there >_>

 

[Teran]

Well legally they had no obligation to until the pictures appeared.

 

[Lore]

Well legally they had no obligation to until the pictures appeared.

It's America, so according to Fox News, they should have stopped all discussion on the topic immediately.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Irrelevant, but funny how Reddit was recently in the news for letting people talk about child pornography. Their refusal to shut the forum/topic down until actual pics started being posted there >_>

Pics were in the "jailbait" section of reddit from the beginning. It's mostly clothed pictures taken from teen facebook accounts and stuff, but actual child porn was found on there. This was before Anderson Cooper did an expose on it.

 

[eighteenspikes]

Hiding behind the legality of exploitative behavior is scummy. I tried thinking of a "yeah well it's also legal to ____ but that doesn't mean it's okay!!" but I legitimately can't think of anything creepier than Reddit enabling their userbase to jerk off to underaged (but clothed!!!!!!!) female strangers without the girls' knowledge/consent.

 

[Spelt]

inb4 reddit vs 4chan.

 

[Luigitoilet]

they both suck.

 

[eighteenspikes]

inb4 reddit vs 4chan.

they're both a refined collection of subhuman trash. case closed~

edit: jc luigi -_-

 

[Teran]

Hiding behind the legality of exploitative behavior is scummy.

Yeah, so? Don't go.

I mean so what if it's against the general code of morals, if they're not legally obliged to stop stuff, they don't have to; and if letting creepers talk about kids is going to make them money in terms of ad revenue gained from the hits, as well as providing an actual hub for free speech/expression, a concept that everyone loves to pretend they believe in until it's time to THINK OF THE CHILDREN, then good for them.

Basically, people need to stop trying to morally police the internet.

 

[Lore]

Besides, letting pedos talk it out is far better than them running around and actually taking advantage of children.

 

[Teran]

Not to mention restricting paedophile/child molester discussion isn't going to stop them from wanting to/attempting to have sex with children.

If anything them discussing such things on line leaves a possible trace route.

 

[Lore]

Not to mention restricting paedophile/child molester discussion isn't going to stop them from wanting to/attempting to have sex with children.

If anything them discussing such things on line leaves a possible trace route.

Ugh, and don't even get me started on the crackdown on "pedo" hentai, where no child IN ANY WAY is being taken advantage of.

But yeah, restricting will do nothing. Hell, I would bet some money on the fact that restricting and repressing just makes it worse/more alluring for the pedo.

 

[eighteenspikes]

cool, child porn apologists. hopefully an admin nukes this entire thread while I puke myself unconscious.

 

[Luigitoilet]

while i think werekill and teran are being extremely creepy about this particular subject, i agree that reddit's owners were not obligated, except out of general good taste and good PR, to take the jailbait section down...my free speech and expression sensor overrides my ephebo/pedo intolerance meter. This is all conjecture for a world where there WASN'T actual child porn hosted there. which, er, there was.

the disgusting part doesn't end there. there was somewhat of a reddit coalition to launch a ridiculous smear campaign against Anderson Cooper for exposing the story to the mainstream. A vocal subset of reddit were frothing angry that their ephebo/pedo ring on a very popular site being exposed. of course, the "smear campaign" was an idiotic string of photoshops with Anderson Cooper's head pasted onto various "jailbait" photos. because reddit is full of bubonic *******. also, that the subreddit remained up after this information was originally brought to light to is absolutely inexcusable.

also, i believe AnonTalk was doing pretty much the same thing for a really long time

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Reddit sucks.

 

[Teran]

cool, child porn apologists

Man, not gonna lie, this is why I don't get sad when people die.

This just goes to show that when you as people are deprived of freedoms, you deserve it because evidently, you don't believe in the basic principles of the freedoms yourself (speech, expression)

 

[eighteenspikes]

Yeah, so? Don't go.

I mean so what if it's against the general code of morals, if they're not legally obliged to stop stuff, they don't have to; and if letting creepers talk about kids is going to make them money in terms of ad revenue gained from the hits, as well as providing an actual hub for free speech/expression, a concept that everyone loves to pretend they believe in until it's time to THINK OF THE CHILDREN, then good for them.

Basically, people need to stop trying to morally police the internet.

Besides, letting pedos talk it out is far better than them running around and actually taking advantage of children.

Not to mention restricting paedophile/child molester discussion isn't going to stop them from wanting to/attempting to have sex with children.

If anything them discussing such things on line leaves a possible trace route.

Ugh, and don't even get me started on the crackdown on "pedo" hentai, where no child IN ANY WAY is being taken advantage of.

too much censor dodge to go through

 

[Teran]

Okay well I'll answer that post anyway. There's a difference between letting people talk about it and letting people display the illegal content. As for "oh it's enabling them", well ultimately everything short of prison or execution is enabling them, so that point is moot. And no, it is not necessarily enabling them to just let them... talk.

As for me championing freedom of speech, no, my entire point is that your dumb**** ****bird society champions free speech and expression. This of course, extends to the internet, and sadly for you, this means that to want such things stopped would be a contradiction to society AND THE LAW'S own set of principles.

Also you'd be surprised at who will advertise where on the internet, you can always at least bank on gambling sites at least.

Also, in the UK, I have more freedoms than the average American, but, you know, it's not really that big a deal, it's just a big deal when people pretend it's a concept then want to impose their own set of principles on it. Well tough, it's either complete or none.

 

[Crimson King]

Maybe just tge subreddits I read, but I never got a bad vibe from the place. I think I mostly read ones that oppose Reddit becoming any type of 4chan counterpart.

 

[theeboredone]

I guess one big reason for Reddit coming under fire is because it's just a huge company, and for there to be child pornography or jail bait sections posted, then it's bad PR. It'll be interesting to see if Reddit holds up to their standards of "free speech" or if they fold under pressure and start to enforce stricter policies.

It's definitely a bad image in my head of some guy stealing a picture of some teen girls at the beach from her facebook, pasting it on reddit, and then people going -fap, fap, fap- to it.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Why's freedom an entitlement?

 

[Shadic]

If you don't like a subreddit, unsubscribe from it. Tada.

I use the site quite often, and I just stay away from crap like /r/jailbait (Which I believe is now defunct) and /r/fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuu because I find it creepy and dumb, respectively.

/r/smashbros needs more love, by the way.

As for discussion threading, I greatly prefer the flat style used in message boards.

 

[Luigitoilet]

That the jailbait subreddit stayed up long after the child porn was brought to light speaks volumes about the people who run the site. It's not really "don't like it, don't go" when the subreddits people DO go on are implicitly supporting the people who knowingly kept child porn hosted on their site.

 

[Falconv1.0]

It's definitely a bad image in my head of some guy stealing a picture of some teen girls at the beach from her facebook, pasting it on reddit, and then people going -fap, fap, fap- to it.

See I'm not exactly a fan of all this pedo **** but you can't tell me that isn't kinda girl's fault. I mean see all these photos posted from friends/mutual friends where they're in bikinis with some of their *** showing and it's like, either you respect the fact that if you're attractive, that's a risk, or you don't ****in' post it.

I'm in no way defending the guys getting off to child porn or anything like that so don't spin it like I am.

 

[Shadic]

That the jailbait subreddit stayed up long after the child porn was brought to light speaks volumes about the people who run the site. It's not really "don't like it, don't go" when the subreddits people DO go on are implicitly supporting the people who knowingly kept child porn hosted on their site.

I'm fairly sure that those people are just a vocal minority.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I'm fairly sure that those people are just a vocal minority.

what? These people are RUNNING THE SITE.

See I'm not exactly a fan of all this pedo **** but you can't tell me that isn't kinda girl's fault. I mean see all these photos posted from friends/mutual friends where they're in bikinis with some of their *** showing and it's like, either you respect the fact that if you're attractive, that's a risk, or you don't ****in' post it.

I'm in no way defending the guys getting off to child porn or anything like that so don't spin it like I am.

Ah, victim blaming, the cornerstone of any nutritional "nerd misogynist" breakfast. This would not have happened if she was not dressing like a *****, etc etc.

When someone posts a picture of themselves, say, at a beach, in a ****TY BIKINI, onto facebook, the context is that of girls/boys having fun at a beach. When an adult man, or indeed, a legion of adult men set up organizations for collecting such photos and making a gallery of them and naming it JAILBAIT, and requiring people to verify that they are over 18, the context is of ADULT MEN MASTURBATING to photos of MINORS.

The sexualisation of the pictures is not the fault of the kids/teens who originally posted them. And EVEN IF some of the pictures are already intended to be sexual, which is certainly the case from my experience on facebook, it is to me an extreme broach of privacy and even though it is not illegal it is ****ing disgusting and so is blaming the victims which is something that rapist apologists do all the time.

 

[Shadic]

what? These people are RUNNING THE SITE.

Did they not talk /r/jailbait down? And I'm pretty sure that the reason that the subreddit lasted as long as it did is because the site has generally had a very strong "Laissez-faire" attitude towards individual subreddits, preferring to let the community do their thing. When /r/jailbait got as erm.. Creepy as it did, along with public pressure, they finally took action. I also think that now that the precedent was set, they'll going to be a bit more forward with these things. It takes time and sometimes outside influence to overcome policies that are 90% of the time popular, (Hands off) even if the 10% of the time it's really a bad mindset.

I'm probably coming off as a bit apologetic, but I honestly don't think the reason /r/jailbait lasted so long as because the Admins wanted in on some naked kiddie pics.

And yes, I'm glad that is gone.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I believe the subreddit is down now, but this situation was known weeks ago, even before Anderson Cooper did his expose on it....and it remained up for a while AFTER the expose.

I'm not calling the admins pedos, I'm calling them disgusting opportunists who let site revenues dictate their actions over basic moral principles. Either way, it's not something I want to be supporting no matter how implicitly.

 

[Falconv1.0]

what? These people are RUNNING THE SITE.



Ah, victim blaming, the cornerstone of any nutritional "nerd misogynist" breakfast. This would not have happened if she was not dressing like a *****, etc etc.

When someone posts a picture of themselves, say, at a beach, in a ****TY BIKINI, onto facebook, the context is that of girls/boys having fun at a beach. When an adult man, or indeed, a legion of adult men set up organizations for collecting such photos and making a gallery of them and naming it JAILBAIT, and requiring people to verify that they are over 18, the context is of ADULT MEN MASTURBATING to photos of MINORS.

The sexualisation of the pictures is not the fault of the kids/teens who originally posted them. And EVEN IF some of the pictures are already intended to be sexual, which is certainly the case from my experience on facebook, it is to me an extreme broach of privacy and even though it is not illegal it is ****ing disgusting and so is blaming the victims which is something that rapist apologists do all the time.

Yeah except here's the difference, I'm not giving the pedos an excuse, I'm saying the girls should be more responsible cuz uh, you know, a lot of goddamn skin is shown in a bikini. But yes, just compare me to a rapist apologist because I'm totally ok with what they do, sure.

Quite honestly I don't give a **** what the original context of the picture was, IF I CAN SEE HER GODDAMN *** HANGING OUT OF THE ****ING THING, SHE CAN'T EXPECT NO ONE TO NOTICE. It's so ****ing naive and juvenile to believe there's some semblance of innocence or respect in society when it comes to **** like this, so I'd really love for some goddamn responsibility SO THESE PEDO THREADS WOULDN'T BE SO EASY TO MAKE. Also, here's the thing, a rapist could **** a nun if he felt like, he's a goddamn rapist, he'll choose whatever works, no one looks at a girl wearing "modest" clothing and posts it in jailbait threads. But yeah sure let's just continue to tell people they should post whatever they want in public and not expect problems. Sure.

Gonna repeat again. I'm not giving anyone a ****ing excuse, I'm saying I wish people would see THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES TO **** YOU POST ONLINE.

Oh way to call me a nerd misogynist. That's borderline flaming and I really don't ****ing appreciate it seeing how I said very clearly THAT I'M NOT DEFENDING THEM SO DON'T SPIN IT LIKE I AM.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Victim blaming is implicit defense of the perpetrators, actually.

I'm not really familiar with the specific content of r/jailbait, so I wasn't aware that all of the pictures had girls with their buttocks and/or vagina exposed.

I do know that it's not only girl pictures. Lots of just young boys in swimtrunks as well. I guess they should have worn longjohns before taking pictures.

edit: for the record, I'm not saying you are a ephebo apologist, I'm just saying that's exactly what you sound like from these posts.