For smash 4 to succeed, we need to change

[LancerStaff]

I'll just come out with it...
The silly kids on Miiverse are overall the better section of the fanbase. Sure they still fight and such, but I've noticed that they're overall alot nicer and more accepting than us. It's no wonder so many people are against competitive play, we've got SSB's biggest collection of jerks and it shows.

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYQHAAABAAAhUqFN6XVLDg
Gotta say, you guys have alot to learn from the kids who request Goku all day.

 

[DaDavid]

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYQHAAABAAAhUqFN6XVLDg
Gotta say, you guys have alot to learn from the kids who request Goku all day.

It's a bit unfair because they can't directly respond to each other like we can here, but still. Those are mostly impressive kids haha.

 

[Goten21]

I'll just come out with it...
The silly kids on Miiverse are overall the better section of the fanbase. Sure they still fight and such, but I've noticed that they're overall alot nicer and more accepting than us. It's no wonder so many people are against competitive play, we've got SSB's biggest collection of jerks and it shows.

If you call the people on here jerks, then a certain competitive fanning (also known as stanning) site for Britney Spears would blow your mind xD
They are rude af there! The people on here are angels compared to them, trust me

What I'm basically saying is:
it could be worse

 

[LancerStaff]

If you call the people on here jerks, then a certain competitive fanning (also known as stanning) site for Britney Spears would blow your mind xD
They are rude af there! The people on here are angels compared to them, trust me

What I'm basically saying is:
it could be worse

And I'm saying us (mostly) grown adults should at least compare to these kids...

 

[The Slayer]

Most of those users in Miiverse are just into the fun of any Smash Bros game and couldn't care less how the game works as long their dream battles come true. And most negativity (if any) are dealt with very quickly. Not to mention it is a fairly new service while SmashBoards has been up for a long time. Also, we get really sour people on both (or 3, but feels more like 2) sides of the fence here and people who post about x being better than y is either users that wants a higher post count or users just wanting to label the fans/pros and game to make themselves feel better about the game their supporting.

 

[Goten21]

And I'm saying us (mostly) grown adults should at least compare to these kids...

Unles you're in your 30s, there isn't much difference in age

 

[slicesabre]

The 11 million people would buy smash 4 anyway even if it did cater to people who play "for glory" as long as it doesn't remove what makes smash good in the first place (items, cool single player modes, tons of extras). As long as those are in place and the gameplay is overall fun, the people who play "for fun" will buy it. The problem is that while brawl was considered a success, it would've had more sales if it played more like project M, or at the very least, been designed to be fast paced and encouraged a balance of aggressive and defensive play rather than purely defensive. It didn't have to play like melee, but adding tripping, and making the game floaty and slow made the game overall worse. Yes, I know the game is different, but brawl still has a lot of flaws.

The problem with taking that position of "If it catered to the competitive scene it would have gotten more sales." Is that you have no way of knowing or proving that to be true.

I mean if you're going to say that then I'll argue the inverse which is if it catered more to the pros it would have lost sales.

 

[thesage]

Your problem is you're thinking from the perceptive of a smash competitive thought process.

The overall fanbase loved Brawl. You guys gotta stop looking through the mirror of: the tourny scene doesn't like it so the game is a flop. It makes everyone stop taking you seriously.

I think brawl was a very successful game and is fun when you play with friends. As a serious tournament game, it's a flop compared to melee. I am surprised at how long the competitive smash has lasted, not that we are getting a sequel. Smash is one of Nintendo's most successful franchises.

 

[otter]

The problem with taking that position of "If it catered to the competitive scene it would have gotten more sales." Is that you have no way of knowing or proving that to be true.

I mean if you're going to say that then I'll argue the inverse which is if it catered more to the pros it would have lost sales.

using that amount of logic in one post requires me to call you an ass hole.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I don't want to bump the thread but AA, you said one problem with the 3ds version was stages right? Now that most have an FD form, I don't think that's as big of a deal anymore.

Just a food for thought. There's still plenty of issues.

 

[666blaziken]

The problem with taking that position of "If it catered to the competitive scene it would have gotten more sales." Is that you have no way of knowing or proving that to be true.

I mean if you're going to say that then I'll argue the inverse which is if it catered more to the pros it would have lost sales.

For starters, let's look at street fighter and compare it to street fighter 2. SF1 had less characters (I think only 2 were playable) and the moves were limited. Also, look at the pokemon series. Its sales only got better after generation 1; with each game having more in-depth mechanics via additional moves, abilities, types, and improved game mechanics that rely less on luck and more on still and variety such as Individual Values and super training. The people who play for fun bought the game for the adventure, while the people who play for glory (and also fun as well) bought the game to build up a new team for tournament play. Why? Because it would make more sense to have more technical gameplay than less technical gameplay because it gives the game a better sense of depth; thus making it more appealing to fans of the series.

 

[Fuqua]

Here is the question I've always posed but I've never really gotten a straight answer about: Why does Melee get to be the only fighting game that stays stuck 13 years in the past?

Think about it is the Street Fighter fanbase split because a large percentage of them prefer 3rd Strike over SF4(and all its iterations)? No those purists have stayed with their 3rd Strike and whatnot but the competitive scene and the overall Street Fighter fanbase have moved on.

I could go one and on about other fighting games series and their march into the future but I won't cause we'll be here all day. It is my personal opinion that the fanbase's desire to stay with Melee is self destructive. The competitive Smash scene NEEDS to move on if they wish to be taken seriously in the future. I mean I find it rather sad that the scene that considers themselves the most knowledgeable and skilled at Smash could POTENTIALLY choose to skip this game as well and stay with a game made 13 years ago rather than work within the confines of that game like every other fighting game. I love Melee and it looked great for the times but it is absolutely jarring to look at now when it is played on the same stage as Blazblue and SF.

Get over "ugh we don't need hd or we gots dolphin or we gots PM" complaints after the while the uninformed will look and think "This game looks like crap didn't they make others?" and your response" "Ugh Brawl and Smash 4 were crap." That is completely counterproductive and a strike against the entire Smash bros brand which is actually great and all of the games have been terrific even if Smash 4 is considered amazing by the larger fanbase and press but 'uncompetitive' like Brawl by the other fanbase.

Realistically speaking I don't expect the Competitive Smash community, that sticks to Melee, to accept Smash 4 at all because they'll be grading it against Melee despite their denials that that's not what they're doing instead of making the game work like they did with Melee in the first place. The competitive smash community honestly desires a Melee 2.0 with just an updated roster because in their minds Melee is perfection and on a certain level if another Smash game were to surpass that they'll feel that some of their time with Melee is now forgotten and will refuse Smash 4 on that basis as well.

All and all I hope the scene does figure something out or else you will cause the eventual death of your own scene being stuck in the past.

"Why does Melee get to be the only fighting game that stays stuck 13 years in the past?"

I guess what you are trying to ask is why the competitive community prefers melee over brawl? Because Melee is the better competitive game, literally that simple.
Why isnt this the case with other fighting games? In other fighting games the developer doesn’t consciously try to screw over its competitive community by making the game painfully simple.

Most fighting games primarily appeal to a very hardcore/competitive audience, so the game is made for that audience. This is why in other fighting games people are more willing to move on because the next game in the series is just as technical and competitive as the one before it. This isn’t the case with smash bros, this game is primarily made for a casual audience. Therefore Sakurai felt that Melee was too hardcore and made Brawl more accessible, which unfortunately also resulted in Brawl being not as interesting from a competitive point of view as melee was.

I hope that answered your question.

I also find it quite funny how you call it "self-destructive" to stick with melee. Last time i checked melee was doing great, getting amazing views at evo last year and it will be at evo this year as well. If smash 4 is good competitively people will move on, if it isn’t they’ll stick with melee, that’s just how it is and it shouldn’t be any other way. Would you really prefer them playing smash 4 despite them enjoying melee more? That mind-set makes no sense to me at all. Should people who play soccer "move on" to beach soccer because it’s the new sport and therefore superior (by your logic)?

If you guys want a competitive smash 4 community why not make your own one? Instead of blaming those "stuck in the past" melee players, let them play their game and you play yours. The most popular smash will prevail.

 

[otter]

For starters, let's look at street fighter and compare it to street fighter 2. SF1 had less characters (I think only 2 were playable) and the moves were limited. Also, look at the pokemon series. Its sales only got better after generation 1; with each game having more in-depth mechanics via additional moves, abilities, types, and improved game mechanics that rely less on luck and more on still and variety such as Individual Values and super training. The people who play for fun bought the game for the adventure, while the people who play for glory (and also fun as well) bought the game to build up a new team for tournament play. Why? Because it would make more sense to have more technical gameplay than less technical gameplay because it gives the game a better sense of depth; thus making it more appealing to fans of the series.

Oh yeah.... And it's kind of the birth of pvp gaming and had official tournaments by Capcom. Literally the worst example you could think of.

 

[666blaziken]

Oh yeah.... And it's kind of the birth of pvp gaming and had official tournaments by Capcom. Literally the worst example you could think of.

How so? The competitive nature of street fighter attracted more people to the series as time went on. However, I think that pokemon is a way better example. Pokemon; a game series that appeals to competitive gamers attracts that crowd because game freak actually tries to make the game more fun and varied as well as more competitive and balanced with each gen. Game freak was able to please both casual and competitive players alike, never downgraded to a simpler style, and introduces new and upgraded mechanics to improve on the battle system. Did any of these advanced pokemon mechanics make the players who play the game for fun feel isolated? Not at all. Many people just play X and Y just to beat the game and play pokemon amie. So mrs.Sabre's logic that I can't prove that if it catered more to the pros it would have lost sales is flawed.

 

[RODO]

And I'm saying us (mostly) grown adults should at least compare to these kids...

We are much more dedicated, which is why we take things more personal. Not necessarily bad.

Just like how I like the Halo games but it's nowhere near my favorite series. If people tell me they don't like it I don't care near as much as people hating on a game like Brawl for example.

 

[Luco]

Actually, i'd like to testify on a little something. The people that said it wasn't that bad are actually really incorrect, or at least in terms of my experiences. I've been a competitive player for a couple of years now... it's bad. And you can't just steel up and ignore it either.

As it so happens, I happen to believe we're affected by our connections with others even online. It certainly isn't the case for some but an increasing number of people i've noticed have begun to set in motion an idea in my mind that there's more to online connections than we give to them.

That's why I think it's always hurt so much. The melee vs. brawl arguments were so bitter and left everyone dissatisfied because they all left knowing the other couldn't really accept their game. On one hand, that's obviously not a realistic expectation. But... I suppose you could almost compare it to racism in that it's obviously not nice to know people around you would disapprove of you, especially based on one thing that doesn't necessarily define the rest of you. In addition, everyone over-exaggerated it in their minds to make it so that it WAS a personal attack, which further hurt people.

I don't know how it started - I certainly wasn't here for that - but i've seen a lot of those arguments in my time here. Tough skin can only get you so far before the pinprick turns to a stab.

I dunno entirely what i'm writing either, i'm tired so if any of this isn't cohesive it's because of that.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

 

[DaDavid]

I don't want to bump the thread but AA, you said one problem with the 3ds version was stages right? Now that most have an FD form, I don't think that's as big of a deal anymore.

Just a food for thought. There's still plenty of issues.

That is actually pretty interesting. I mean if we're really looking at the two titles as 4 and 5, like Sakurai says he is, then it's possible that they would develop different meta's for a variety of reasons.

Of course that's all assuming the community wanted to dedicate resources to the 3DS version, which seems unlikely, but at the very least IF people wanted to do that it seems likely that the 3DS meta would focus heavily on FD variants given the relative lack of otherwise viable stages.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

The most popular smash will prevail.

can we stop viewing it in that limelight? That goes for all of us. Christ there's a scene for both Street Fighter 2 and Street Fighter 4. This isn't a competition; it's to make all scenes healthy. Heck, I'd argue from what I've seen that what killed the Brawl scene was other things. This isn't a discussion on whether Smash 4 will live longterm, but how to handle it's starting so it's not nearly as much of a mess as Brawl's.

 

[Fuqua]

can we stop viewing it in that limelight? That goes for all of us. Christ there's a scene for both Street Fighter 2 and Street Fighter 4. This isn't a competition; it's to make all scenes healthy. Heck, I'd argue from what I've seen that what killed the Brawl scene was other things. This isn't a discussion on whether Smash 4 will live longterm, but how to handle it's starting so it's not nearly as much of a mess as Brawl's.

I agree with you that smash games should be able to coexist. All I really was trying to say is that there will be a most popular smash and if it ends up being melee i don't want to see people complaining. I just want to encourage people to stick with the game they enjoy the most and not "move on" (I ****ing hate that term) to a, in their opinion, inferior game.

Smash 4s starting depends mostly on smash 4 itself. I know a lot of you have this Idea in your minds that melee players just can't wait to **** on that game, regardless of how it plays. While those kinds of people exist, it certainly isn't the majority of the competitive melee scene. Many pro Melee players already expressed their desire to move on to smash 4, they want this game to be good! They want to make it work! Just like they wanted to make Brawl work..... which brings me to my next point.

Reading through this thread it seems to me that a lot of people are convinced that the reason for Brawls poor competitive reception is the community itself. The community certainly did play a role but it is just baffling to me that the undeniable fact, that brawl is just a bad competitive game, is so commonly ignored. Just to make this absolutely clear so none of you delusional people forget it, BRAWL IS A BAD COMPETITIVE GAME. All the gameplay changes from melee to brawl made for a slower, less technical and simply more boring version of smash, tripping is just the tip of the iceberg! I could go on and on about hitstun and momentum but i won't. Brawl was clearly intended to be non competitive.

I seriously believe that you people extremely overestimate the impact that this community has. If smash 4 is good, we will play it, if it isn't,we won't. Brawl wasn't good so we didn't play that. End of story. (I only say that brawl isn't good because that is the popular opinion, i know there is a very small competitive brawl community)

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I agree with you that smash games should be able to coexist. All I really was trying to say is that there will be a most popular smash and if it ends up being melee i don't want to see people complaining. I just want to encourage people to stick with the game they enjoy the most and not "move on" (I ****ing hate that term) to a, in their opinion, inferior game.

I agree with that. The move on **** is stupid and I honestly agree with everything you've been saying; I only pointed that out merely for everyone. Heck, I'm pretty sure given the Smash Community it'll work; at the worst, people will probably still play Smash 4 at Melee tournaments, and that's at worst. The game is looking up. There's so much negativity around.

now can doubles get a serious scene plz

 

[Xigger]

You could always try enjoying yourself, rather than trying to upkeep a set of standards for fair competitive fighting. I can understand the desire for competitive battles, to be the best like no one ever was, but honestly, if a community would rather mod future games to play like past games than move on, then the game's not cut out for that community. There's not much chance that Smash 4 will be modded, and there's going to be a split between the fans who will move on and who won't. Given this community's reputation, I won't mind.

 

[popsofctown]

I am definitely not a Melee person but I also see issue in the phrase "move on"

 

[Sucumbio]

Yeah, that's like someone getting onto me because I still like MGS. I mean, shoot, there's NINTENDO games, as in NES games, that I STILL play, because they're just that damn good. I've got favorite titles on just about every console and from every generation, moving on isn't even something that computes. Why should someone just stop playing because a sequel came out?

Haha melee vs brawl. God ... I really wish I could play melee as well as I do brawl but I can't. Brawl was my first game, the one that got me into smash. I have all 3, but the first two I have to use a gamecube controller, so my skills are rather pitiful in comparison. Now if one day they come out w/a vc version with the capacity to use the wii-chuck then heck yeah, I'll be all about Melee, -especially- if there's a with anyone mode (yeah dream on). In the meantime I do look forward to S4 for the wiiU. I believe my wife told me she saw a video of sakuri play testing it with a wii-chuck, something to do with his hands having nerve damage so he can't hold a gcn controller anymore, but she could be conflating this with something else, we're very tired these days

 

[RODO]

People might think it's silly that others like myself play Brawl competitively, but you know what? It just might be the thing that helped nudge Sakurai towards a more balanced and competitive Smash 4. Not only was there the die hard Melee community, but here you have this community of people trying their best to make a competitive Brawl out of a game that he tried very hard to make as non-competitive as possible. If I were Sakurai and I were looking at all of the passionate fans of ALL communities that play Smash FOR GLORY (sorry, couldn't help myself) then I would know that I had made a mistake.

 

[otter]

You could always try enjoying yourself, rather than trying to upkeep a set of standards for fair competitive fighting. I can understand the desire for competitive battles, to be the best like no one ever was, but honestly, if a community would rather mod future games to play like past games than move on, then the game's not cut out for that community. There's not much chance that Smash 4 will be modded, and there's going to be a split between the fans who will move on and who won't. Given this community's reputation, I won't mind.

By that point, the people who aren't concerned with competitive standards will have already quit playing. There's like 4 people who like Brawl and dislike Project M. It's not just about competition either. P:M, is faster, smoother, removed character changing mid game, and yes having an engine that wasn't designed to ruin your time is a plus too.

It's also kind of insulting to imply that anyone isn't having fun. Everyone wants Smash 4 for the trophies and single player stuff, some people just want to keep playing after that week is over.

 

[Raetah]

I find funny the competitive community of Smash, they thing they are something big and important in the decissions of SSB, when they are just an small part of SSB sales.

 

[RODO]

I find funny the competitive community of Smash, they thing they are something big and important in the decissions of SSB, when they are just an small part of SSB sales.

I find it funny that no one was saying that other than you. One thing we will do is keep the game alive and promote it for a very long time. Casuals drive lots of sales in the short term but we keep sales coming in the long term.

 

[Raetah]

I find it funny that no one was saying that other than you. One thing we will do is keep the game alive and promote it for a very long time. Casuals drive lots of sales in the short term but we keep sales coming in the long term.

"But we keep sales coming in the long term" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. Enough.

 

[RODO]

"But we keep sales coming in the long term" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. Enough.

It's true.

 

[Raetah]

It's true.

"High-level Competive players" are something amazing to watch and my reason to keep playing Smash, im probably not going to be in any tournament in my life, but i try to play better. But... you must realize, if the Competitive comunnity dissapears, SSB is still going to be a succesful project, we cant say the opposite if the "casual" players dissapear, it would be the end of SSB.

 

[slicesabre]

"High-level Competive players" are something amazing to watch and my reason to keep playing Smash, im probably not going to be in any tournament in my life, but i try to play better. But... you must realize, if the Competitive comunnity dissapears, SSB is still going to be a succesful project, we cant say the opposite if the "casual" players dissapear, it would be the end of SSB.

This right here.

I mean honestly? Smash doesn't need the competitive community. Smash 4 could take a dump on everything the competitive community likes in the fashion Brawl did and still be a great and successful game in its own right. Sorry competitive scene people but Brawl was an amazing game in and of itself and no matter what you say history will also say it was a great game. I mean hell if you want to get all technical Metacritic has Melee at 92 and Brawl at 93 so at the end of the day Nintendo did something right.

The only reason Smash 4 may not reach the sales glory Brawl did is because the WiiU's sales are in the tank compared to the Wii's. And you can stop right there before you mention old argument about how many Gamecube owners had Melee because that would imply that Brawl would have to sell something like 30 million units to compare which is not a reasonable expectation.

 

[RODO]

It would obviously be successful without us guys, that wasn't my point. You keep trying to act like the competitive community thinks they are superior or something but all you are doing is coming in here and trying to bring us down for no reason. Casual AND hardcore fan bases are both important for sales.

 

[Deleted member]

I know this is like trying to break a brick wall with a ball pein hammer, but guys; let people play what they want to play, like what they want to like, and for god's sake stop acting like a bunch of goddamned children, and this goes for people on both sides. Also @ slicesabre , nobody takes Metacritic seriously. Nobody. I'm not saying you're wrong, but don't bring up Metacritic scores, because they honestly don't matter.

 

[Raetah]

It would obviously be successful without us guys, that wasn't my point. You keep trying to act like the competitive community thinks they are superior or something but all you are doing is coming in here and trying to bring us down for no reason. Casual AND hardcore fan bases are both important for sales.

Read title, "For Smash 4 to succeed we need to change", the thread is full of "competitve players discussing about many things, furthermore in the first paragraph of the main post includes the word "competitive". For Smash 4 to succeed we need to change + competive players = Wrong title or Competive players that think they are a big determinant factor to the destiny of SSB.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

We all play a role as players. Not just casual or not just competitive. Smash is set up so everybody has the ability to enjoy it. Each game goes this way.

The fact is, every sale counts. Losing the entire competitive fanbase does lower sales and makes it less successful. We're not that small of a section either. What, maybe 10%? That's a pretty decent chunk of cash being lost, because one set of players is being driven out. I'd hate to lose any player, regardless of their mindset of playstyle. The one mindset that is a problem is the elitist kind, where one style is wrong, but the other is right, and you're wrong for liking the one the other guy doesn't. That's just not cool.

In addition, we should be fully respectful of each other's playstyles. Is there something wrong with competitive players existing? That they like to play to win using a different playstyle, one the game was designed with the full intention of it being allowed? Because I can't honestly see how it's a wrong way to do it. And this is coming from someone who plays both as well. I've played casually and competitively. I'm no high level player either, but I have fun either way, and have enjoyed all 3 games to varying degrees. But the one thing that I found most enjoyable is getting together with people to talk about the game and/or play. And I respect them, regardless of how they play, trying to see it there way. So what the topic is saying? And what we need to change? In reality, it's to stop with trying to divide the playerbase into factions and come together to simply respect each other, regardless of which game or playstyle we like. That's the real message of the topic.

I already read through this whole topic and know that not everybody understood that at first. So sometimes it needs reminding that this isn't a "rally everyone to buy SSB4" topic or anything like that. Just support all players through respect and let them all have fun their own way. Also, what RODO said below me. This is mainly about competitive stuff as is, not just casual play.

 

[RODO]

Read title, "For Smash 4 to succeed we need to change", the thread is full of "competitve players discussing about many things, furthermore in the first paragraph of the main post includes the word "competitive". For Smash 4 to succeed we need to change + competive players = Wrong title or Competive players that think they are a big determinant factor to the destiny of SSB.

Wow this has gone way over your head. It's talking about if Smash 4 is to succeed competitively then we as a community need to change. It has nothing to do with the financial success of the game, this is all talking about how we can make it work competitively due to the community being divided.

 

[Vkrm]

Read title, "For Smash 4 to succeed we need to change", the thread is full of "competitve players discussing about many things, furthermore in the first paragraph of the main post includes the word "competitive". For Smash 4 to succeed we need to change + competive players = Wrong title or Competive players that think they are a big determinant factor to the destiny of SSB.

In the context of this thread being a success equates to having an active tournament scene. Please die.

I find funny the competitive community of Smash, they thing they are something big and important in the decissions of SSB, when they are just an small part of SSB sales.

It's not as if Nintendo has to forgo one side of the fanbase to please the other. We're not short on casual players who claim that they'd somehow enjoy the game more if it catered to them exclusively, but I don't believe such a poisonous attitude could be the majority here. Honestly if sakurai were receptive to the type of feedback we could give, both sides would benefit.

This right here.

I mean honestly? Smash doesn't need the competitive community. Smash 4 could take a dump on everything the competitive community likes in the fashion Brawl did and still be a great and successful game in its own right. Sorry competitive scene people but Brawl was an amazing game in and of itself and no matter what you say history will also say it was a great game. I mean hell if you want to get all technical Metacritic has Melee at 92 and Brawl at 93 so at the end of the day Nintendo did something right.

The only reason Smash 4 may not reach the sales glory Brawl did is because the WiiU's sales are in the tank compared to the Wii's. And you can stop right there before you mention old argument about how many Gamecube owners had Melee because that would imply that Brawl would have to sell something like 30 million units to compare which is not a reasonable expectation.

Then you should not have brought up sales in the first place.

 

[Raetah]

Wrong title, which leads to the next point:
SSB4 is going to be a Sucessor of Brawl, although not identhical, SSB4 is clearly similar to Brawl, inside the Competive players of SSB community exist a favoritism to Melee. SSB4 is going to kill the remain competive scene of Brawl and it will coexist with Melee untill next SSB.

 

[RODO]

Wrong title, which leads to the next point:
SSB4 is going to be a Sucessor of Brawl, although not identhical, SSB4 is clearly similar to Brawl, inside the Competive players of SSB community exist a favoritism to Melee. SSB4 is going to kill the remain competive scene of Brawl and it will coexist with Melee untill next SSB.

That's fine and all, but it still has nothing to do with the thread topic. Go back and read the OP. What can we do as a community to help Smash thrive on the competitive level??

 

[Aguki90]

I was gonna post something like this, but You say here firts and 100 Times deep. I give you a Strong Clap.

But your rigth, Smash 4 need to be the new Main Smash. I got big hopes for that because Sakurai is very focus in Balanced and Competive players stuff than any others Smash!