For smash 4 to succeed, we need to change

[Xcano]

The argument for representative democracy is that there are too many things for an average citizen to vote on on a daily basis. That's not really the case with the smash community, especially with a ruleset that is determined early and locked in.

It should just be a democratic vote on the ruleset itself. Only allow votes from players verify their smashboards username at a face-to-face tourney.

I was being sarcastic but okay.

 

[nat pagle]

It's changes like the one in today's pic (the jab finisher) and the new ledge mechanic that are already defining this game as its own thing. If Smash 4 truly is as promising as it looks, then it will undoubtedly succeed.

Debating isn't wrong, I agreed to as much. But outright fighting like some people here are doing isn't debating, and that's what the guy was objecting to.

That's where the line is blurred, what's fighting and what's not?

 

[1MachGO]

The only thing I was addressing that whole quote was Mew2King being a better champion of defensive play overall than HB.

I think we're caught up on semantics, defensive play certainly plays a role in melee (i think ive said before melee was more in the middle) so I mostly agree with your point, but the game itself tends towards more offensive play. Additionally i've mentioned it can be MU dependent too. I dont think its a surprise that vs Jiggs tends to be a campfest, theres a character like that in Brawl (vs Olimar) where the most efficient strategy is to push offensively. Or in terms of situations, you'll see M2K camp by the ledge like M2K vs Shizwiz style when itll provide a high reward for him in a situation where he needs it. Pikachu can take advantage of such high reward gimps too and with my patient attitude and knowledge my current strategy in melee revolves around this when I encounter technical skill gaps, it works fairly well. I also think its definitely important to be capable to the games max extent offensively and defensively.

The reason I use those examples is because I see limited ability for the meta-game to become more defensive than that general idea. I don't mean in a TAS way, I mean in what's capable in competition. It's why I said so far, m2k is the best example. However, as I also said I completely leave open in the end some out of nowhere player shows more defensive aptitude then M2K. But for the time being there doesnt seem to be evidence of this.

I guess my point here is that there doesnt seem to be strong evidence the game might lean defensive (which I think most peeps would be happy with ;o ). At the moment the concept seems to rely on theory but I feel theory supports that the current offensive leaning is about right where melee should be, though we havent delved into the reasoning too much for either side of this theory wise yet.

Also I've been following melee for quite awhile and even found old hidden stuff on melees history throughout the boards (i.e. timer got put into place because of a 30 minute match once and was a big controvery along with items being removed). And I think lately we've mostly been discussing the neutral game, which is pretty universal in terms of its understanding. But if theres something you think Im missing or wrong about i'd def like to know.

Like I said, there are just many elements which have encouraged offensive play; two of those reasons being social trends and an undeveloped meta. Despite these trends, it does not mean that defensive play isn't the superior play...

Consider the following:

Does M2K really play "defensively" or does he play "optimally"? (Hint: his nickname is the "robot"). Not-so-coincidentally, optimal play tends to be more defensive play because there is less risk involved.

Late edit: Actually you can feel free to ignore most of that. Im gonna leave it there since I still agree with it, but I realized it missed the main point which Ill try to outline here.

Regarding neutral game

1. A game with greater defensive options (compared to offense) is a greater mental challenge
I think we agree here. This isnt to say a more offensive game isn't mentally challenging. The reason for this though is that the rules of the game force us to approach, so when the game provide us with comparatively less tools (i.e. a greater defense/offense ratio) to follow its rules its requires greater yomi to pursue game progression when defense outweighs offense. If it weren't for yomi the game would not progress at all, and this is actually a threat for games who's defense/offense ratio is too high.

2. Regardless of how defensive melee is, is not, or is capable of being; Brawl is a more defensive game
You can point out removal of mechanics from melee or the overall slower pace of the game, but besides this many mechanics simply enhance defensive play from smaller shield stun and greater oos ability, to the air dodge, improved spot dodge, projectiles etc. Brawl is just built more defensively.

@1, This depends on the nature of the options since mental challenge can vary; relating back to my comparison between Brawl and Melee's respective shield mechanics, its simple and predictable vs. complex and ambiguous. In Brawl, options are limited but reliable, whereas in Melee, you have more options (particularly in mobility) which makes predicting harder. The mental difficulty is emphasized more on certain aspects. However, in their current states, I would argue that the mental game is far more developed in Brawl because player interaction is more constant and controlling the game is less confounding. In Melee, accessing the mental game is at odds with mastery of the technical game.

@2, absolutely. And don't look now, but you are doing a good job comparing the games haha.

 

[Proobie44]

A unified fanbase will never happen, mostly because everyone has this thing called opinions and god forbid personal preference. I'll still give Smash 4 a shot in the same way I did for Brawl and hopefully disappointment won't happen again. I'm not expecting another Melee because we already have Melee, hopefully we'll get a game that'll properly add more to to the mechanics of Melee or at least make a competitive Smash that does it's own thing respectfully.

 

[DaDavid]

A unified fanbase will never happen, mostly because everyone has this thing called opinions and god forbid personal preference. I'll still give Smash 4 a shot in the same way I did for Brawl and hopefully disappointment won't happen again. I'm not expecting another Melee because we already have Melee, hopefully we'll get a game that'll properly add more to to the mechanics of Melee or at least make a competitive Smash that does it's own thing respectfully.

I think a unified fanbase is definitely possible, but just not the idealistic, purely unified one. I think what we can hope for, and what I understood the OP as getting at, is a fanbase that doesn't attack itself based on those opinions and preferences. A respectfully cooperative fanbase I guess would be better put than unified.

Definitely agree on that last bit though. Regardless of what ends up happening, the one thing I want for this game is to be different enough from either Melee or Brawl to feel like it's own legitimate entry.

 

[RelaxAlax]

The way it's looking, Smash is going to be it's own beast - for better or worse.

I've played competetive PM and Brawl. Although PM ain't Melee, I get the jist of it. Where I'm going is those two games invoke too different behaviours in me. Thye are at the core the same, but the way I play is incredibly different.

Smash 4 looks nothing like either, between the new ledge mechanic and the combo finisher - not to mention brand new techniques characters are bringing to the table (Macs punch and big priority EDIT this mornings picture where tilts have different strengths, increased aura, Lumas potential metagame etc.). I really think Smash 4 will be incredibly different at this point. Of course there will be things that are the same to the natural way the game plays, but deeper mechanics are going to be very different. Not to mention, the continual mention of balance, balance, and more balance. Suffice to say it's exciting.

Point being, we got to treat it as a new game. Go in positively and with the notion that it won't be like either Melee or Brawl. That's how it'll succeed, and I think we're on a better track then Brawls past (I wasn't around, but from what I gather, we've learned from the mistakes)

 

[JCDied4U]

Anyone who doesn't understand why Melee is and always will be better than Brawl needs to watch the documentary on Melee. I watched it a few days ago and it is fantastic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tgWH-qXpv8

 

[RelaxAlax]

Anyone who doesn't understand why Melee is and always will be better than Brawl needs to watch the documentary on Melee. I watched it a few days ago and it is fantastic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tgWH-qXpv8

This conversation isn't about that. Plus, that's a subjective opinion.

 

[DaDavid]

Anyone who doesn't understand why Melee is and always will be better than Brawl needs to watch the documentary on Melee. I watched it a few days ago and it is fantastic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tgWH-qXpv8

Not sure if serious... or why even if serious you'd think that's relevant here.

 

[JCDied4U]

Not sure if serious... or why even if serious you'd think that's relevant here.

Well yes, the video itself isn't relevant to the topic but it shows why Melee fans are the way they are and has many examples of gameplay elements that Brawl simply lacks. Even M2K likes MetaKnight the best because he's the only character that feels like Melee.

 

[DaDavid]

Well yes, the video itself isn't relevant to the topic but it shows why Melee fans are the way they are and has many examples of gameplay elements that Brawl simply lacks. Even M2K likes MetaKnight the best because he's the only character that feels like Melee.

It's still all subjective though. None of that serves as any "proof" that Melee is better. I understand you like it and all, but posting that video and essentially saying "Melee is better 'cause look what Brawl didn't have, now do you understand why it's better?" is the exact sort of talk that we don't need in the community.

Yes Brawl lacks certain elements that Melee had, and yes all those Pro Melee players preferred it that way (surprise surprise.) That doesn't give some sort of insight into which game is objectively better.

 

[666blaziken]

Well yes, the video itself isn't relevant to the topic but it shows why Melee fans are the way they are and has many examples of gameplay elements that Brawl simply lacks. Even M2K likes MetaKnight the best because he's the only character that feels like Melee.

It still doesn't give anybody the right to go on brawl forums and attack the community. That is what the op meant about the ssbm vs ssbb going out of hand. It would be like if a group of street fighter players went and attacked the smash bros fanbase on a smash boards forum. It makes the fanbase look worse in the process and creates an unnecessary toxicity as well. It is fine to say that ssbm is better than ssbb, but the idea that one fanbase should go against another and go around starting flame wars is blasphemous.

 

[Empyrean]

Many Melee players still have respect for the Brawl community and support them, even if they hate the game. Like Prog said, it's not only about Melee, nor is it about Brawl, nor 64, nor Project M. It's about moving as one unit, supporting each other even if you dislike a particular game. It's about making the Smash community as a whole a better place. The only issue here is the people from all sides that still persist on insulting and flaming the players themselves.

 

[JCDied4U]

It still doesn't give anybody the right to go on brawl forums and attack the community. That is what the op meant about the ssbm vs ssbb going out of hand. It would be like if a group of street fighter players went and attacked the smash bros fanbase on a smash boards forum. It makes the fanbase look worse in the process and creates an unnecessary toxicity as well. It is fine to say that ssbm is better than ssbb, but the idea that one fanbase should go against another and go around starting flame wars is blasphemous.

I completely agree, in fact I have played much more brawl than Melee. When I was about 13 I actually sold Melee for $25 because I thought there was no reason to keep it. I just wanted to share why I now understand why people prefer Melee.

 

[Ferio_Kun]

After watching "The Smash Brothers" documentary, even being a Brawl over Melee fan, I can't help but want Smash 4 to have at least enough from Melee to get that fire back that we once had..

 

[DaDavid]

After watching "The Smash Brothers" documentary, even being a Brawl over Melee fan, I can't help but want Smash 4 to have at least enough from Melee to get that fire back that we once had..

The thing is it shouldn't be a matter of whether or not it has "enough from Melee." It's just a matter of fans of the game being passionate about it and the community as a whole not fighting the promotion of this new game. It shouldn't, and doesn't have to be like Melee for that to happen.

 

[LovinMitts]

OP is obviously a casual

 

[Sun & Moon]

OP is obviously a casual

OR maybe he just want the smash community to stop hating each other. You don't have to like smash 4, but you should respect it fanbase.

 

[pitthekit]

OP is obviously a casual

He is the co-creator of the balanced brawl mod which was insanely popular brawl mod that enhanced gameplay.

That is enough to disprove your most likely sarcastic sentence.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

He is the creator of the brawl mod-brawl + which was insanely popular brawl mod that enhanced gameplay.

That is enough to disprove your most likely sarcastic sentence.

Balanced Brawl, which I was the co-creator of, is not Brawl+, which I had nothing to do with. It was less popular but also better (non-biased obviously).

I'm not a casual because I've been to a nice handful of tournaments over the years. I was even a BBR member at one point. I haven't been much in the way of active in several years; I'm basically retired from Brawl and am waiting for smash 4 to really jump back in. Of course, it's a silly thing to discuss anyway; arguments are evaluated by intelligent people on their contents, not on the basis of who said them. I try to be as credible as I can, but in the end, it's always my expectation that anything I post is evaluated on the basis of what the post itself contains, not my name or anyone else's name being next to it.

 

[JCDied4U]

I don't think that people hate any of the games. It's just the people that don't except that; Melee is the most competitive of the series and most enjoyable to watch on the pro scene. While brawl is the best for playing with people at parties. Brawl has many positives like better single player and more diverse roster. Ignoring the fact that Melee had better mechanics ultimately limits this community and franchise from ever becoming what we want it to be. The ultimate fighting game for both casuals and hardcore.

 

[DaDavid]

I don't think that people hate any of the games. It's just the people that don't except that; Melee is the most competitive of the series and most enjoyable to watch on the pro scene. While brawl is the best for playing with people at parties. Brawl has many positives like better single player and more diverse roster. Ignoring the fact that Melee had better mechanics ultimately limits this community and franchise from ever becoming what we want it to be. The ultimate fighting game for both casuals and hardcore.

In my opinion it's actually comments like this that hurt the community. This, unless I'm mistaken, is very clearly saying that we all ought to only support Melee at a competitive level because it's flat-out "better." Which is literally the opposite of respecting opinions.

 

[D-idara]

The thing is it shouldn't be a matter of whether or not it has "enough from Melee." It's just a matter of fans of the game being passionate about it and the community as a whole not fighting the promotion of this new game. It shouldn't, and doesn't have to be like Melee for that to happen.

You can see how the people who worship Melee are like when you consider that they actually boo'd Brawl tournaments. They just can't stand seeing someone else liking something they don't.

 

[JCDied4U]

The only reason Brawl has a competitive seen is because of Melee's huge competitive seen. Games like Mario Party(yes, extreme example) don't have a competitive scene for a reason. Brawl is dumbed down and overall much easier to exploit. Why play the older street-fighter games when the new one is more competitive? Why play Brawl when Melee is more competitive? This is coming from someone who isn't competitive at all but I do watch tournaments when I can. Why do you defend a game that was purposefully created to be less competitive than Melee? It's better in other respects like graphics and accessability but Sakurai himself (if I remember correctly) has said that this was his intention.

 

[LancerStaff]

You can see how the people who worship Melee are like when you consider that they actually boo'd Brawl tournaments. They just can't stand seeing someone else liking something they don't.

Sadly, this is just human nature. Babies are proven to have this.

 

[D-idara]

The only reason Brawl has a competitive seen is because of Melee's huge competitive seen. Games like Mario Party(yes, extreme example) don't have a competitive scene for a reason. Brawl is dumbed down and overall much easier to exploit. Why play the older street-fighter games when the new one is more competitive? Why play Brawl when Melee is more competitive? This is coming from someone who isn't competitive at all but I do watch tournaments when I can. Why do you defend a game that was purposefully created to be less competitive than Melee? It's better in other respects like graphics and accessability but Sakurai himself (if I remember correctly) has said that this was his intention.

Because Brawl's a much more accessible experience? I don't want to climb higher, I want to lower the ceiling. And I defend it because everyone on these boards loves to **** on Brawl like they've got nothing better to do. Brawl's a better game than Melee on a lot of aspects, and how 'competitive' the game might be is just a matter of opinion, higher execution barriers doesn't mean competitive, it just means bad design.

 

[DaDavid]

The only reason Brawl has a competitive seen is because of Melee's huge competitive seen. Games like Mario Party(yes, extreme example) don't have a competitive scene for a reason. Brawl is dumbed down and overall much easier to exploit. Why play the older street-fighter games when the new one is more competitive? Why play Brawl when Melee is more competitive? This is coming from someone who isn't competitive at all but I do watch tournaments when I can. Why do you defend a game that was purposefully created to be less competitive than Melee? It's better in other respects like graphics and accessability but Sakurai himself (if I remember correctly) has said that this was his intention.

The one answer to every question you pose is that no matter what you try to argue, which game people prefer is still a matter of preference. In what way is it good for the community to tell certain members "you're playing the wrong game. This one is the REAL competitive title and so that's what we should all play."

Your problem is you continue to view the community as necessarily having to take A over B or vice versa. If you can't understand why that will always only be bad for the community, then I'm afraid you'll just always be part of the problem.

 

[JCDied4U]

The one answer to every question you pose is that no matter what you try to argue, which game people prefer is still a matter of preference. In what way is it good for the community to tell certain members "you're playing the wrong game. This one is the REAL competitive title and so that's what we should all play."

Your problem is you continue to view the community as necessarily having to take A over B or vice versa. If you can't understand why that will always only be bad for the community, then I'm afraid you'll just always be part of the problem.

All I'm saying is that if your playing the game for the competitive aspect, Melee is the better option, you can still play Brawl competitively but it's not as good in that respect. If you want to play it for fun then I think Brawl is the better option, But you can still play Melee just for fun. I just don't get how you guys don't see that Melee is blatantly better for the competitive scene and that's why we need a mix of both games for SSB4 so that everyone will be happy.

 

[Vkrm]

This thread is basically saying if you find it impossible to play smash 4, at least refrain from bashing it. After years of bashing brawl it was eventually forced aside and is no longer the main smash game. Melee took its place and now competitive smash is stronger than ever. Doesn't it seem like crapping on brawl was definitely the right thing to do? If smash 4 is ass like brawl it'll get the same treatment. The truth is if brawl was good, it would be easy to brush off the criticism, and label the naysayers as trolls, but we can't. Somehow brawl supporters have become the minority. Why do you suppose that is?

 

[JCDied4U]

This thread is basically saying if you find it impossible to play smash 4, at least refrain from bashing it. After years of bashing brawl it was eventually forced aside and is no longer the main smash game. Melee took its place and now competitive smash is stronger than ever. Doesn't it seem like crapping on brawl was definitely the right thing to do? If smash 4 is *** like brawl it'll get the same treatment. The truth is if brawl was good, it would be easy to brush off the criticism, and label the naysayers as trolls, but we can't. Somehow brawl supporters have become the minority. Why do you suppose that is?

I agree, but based on what we've seen so far it will be better than Brawl so it should, at the very least, have a better competitive seen than Brawl.

 

[DaDavid]

All I'm saying is that if your playing the game for the competitive aspect, Melee is the better option, you can still play Brawl competitively but it's not as good in that respect. If you want to play it for fun then I think Brawl is the better option, But you can still play Melee just for fun. I just don't get how you guys don't see that Melee is blatantly better for the competitive scene and that's why we need a mix of both games for SSB4 so that everyone will be happy.

That's not the only message your phrasing carries though. By talking one up so far beyond the other, you throw the opinion that one game isn't worth supporting in the competitive community. The point of this topic is to not allow those sort of feelings to stir up again, because when that happens the entire community suffers for it.

SSB4 is unlikely to satisfy all the Melee lovers out there, but it is likely to bring in new players. What's going to happen if people continue to believe and promote the idea that Melee is "blatantly better" is that those new people will wander into the community only to see a bunch of arguing and their game of interest not having as much attention paid to it. Now while some of those people are going to decide to check out this other game that people seem to think is "blatantly better," others will simply abandon any desire they had to get competitive because there isn't support for their game in that community. We have a much better chance for growth if we promote Smash games in general, and hold the attitude that "if you like this game, you might dig this other one too." Melee may have more technical depth, but that doesn't mean the meta-game is objectively better. It's different and in such a way that people enjoyed more, no one can argue that based on the number of people who play the two games.

You can hold your preference and that's fine (since you seem to think I'm "defending" Brawl as a fan of that game, I'll have you know I also enjoy competitive Melee more), but to coat that with "Yeah your game is pretty cool too if you just wanna have fun, but this game is much better if you're trying to be a REAL competitive gamer." is just as condescending as saying something like "Yeah I suppose Nintendo games are fun if you're into kiddie stuff, but if you wanna be a REAL gamer you should buy a PC."

This thread is basically saying if you find it impossible to play smash 4, at least refrain from bashing it. After years of bashing brawl it was eventually forced aside and is no longer the main smash game. Melee took its place and now competitive smash is stronger than ever. Doesn't it seem like crapping on brawl was definitely the right thing to do? If smash 4 is *** like brawl it'll get the same treatment. The truth is if brawl was good, it would be easy to brush off the criticism, and label the naysayers as trolls, but we can't. Somehow brawl supporters have become the minority. Why do you suppose that is?

Crapping on Brawl wasn't what allowed Melee to get a second wind. It was entirely unnecessary in the process. The fact that people preferred Melee is what allowed Melee to come back. None of the bashing was necessary and if anything the arguing hindered the progress that we've now seen. Naturally one game will come out as the dominant one, but it all would've happened regardless. The idea that the in-fighting of the community was somehow "needed" for it's own well being is ridiculous.

 

[smashmachine]

Because Brawl's a much more accessible experience? I don't want to climb higher, I want to lower the ceiling. And I defend it because everyone on these boards loves to **** on Brawl like they've got nothing better to do. Brawl's a better game than Melee on a lot of aspects, and how 'competitive' the game might be is just a matter of opinion, higher execution barriers doesn't mean competitive, it just means bad design.

 

[JCDied4U]

I have to agree with you DaDavid, I hope there won't be any more badmouthing when SSB4 comes out but here's the thing, Brawl deserved the flack it got. I mean come on, horrible balance, almost no combos except juggling or chain grabs, and tripping was just the final nail in the coffin. Hopefully Sakurai and his team did learn from Brawl's mistakes and this game will be the best Smash yet.

 

[LancerStaff]

This thread is basically saying if you find it impossible to play smash 4, at least refrain from bashing it. After years of bashing brawl it was eventually forced aside and is no longer the main smash game. Melee took its place and now competitive smash is stronger than ever. Doesn't it seem like crapping on brawl was definitely the right thing to do? If smash 4 is *** like brawl it'll get the same treatment. The truth is if brawl was good, it would be easy to brush off the criticism, and label the naysayers as trolls, but we can't. Somehow brawl supporters have become the minority. Why do you suppose that is?

Hate only makes both sides look bad. If people didn't feel the need to separate both sides, both games could of coexisted and Melee could of very well started back up once the Brawl hype wore down. Brawl tournaments could of been Brawl and Melee tournaments. But nope, people have to instill the idea that the two sides hate each other and that'd be a bad idea.

 

[D-idara]

You can hold your preference and that's fine (since you seem to think I'm "defending" Brawl as a fan of that game, I'll have you know I also enjoy competitive Melee more), but to coat that with "Yeah your game is pretty cool too if you just wanna have fun, but this game is much better if you're trying to be a REAL competitive gamer." is just as condescending as saying something like "Yeah I suppose Nintendo games are fun if you're into kiddie stuff, but if you wanna be a REAL gamer you should buy a PC."

That last statement, every time I hear something along those lines I want to give a metaphorical e-Slap to the person. Failure to recognize what the E for EVERYONE on the box means has led the videogame industry to turn into what it is today...

This thread is basically saying if you find it impossible to play smash 4, at least refrain from bashing it. After years of bashing brawl it was eventually forced aside and is no longer the main smash game. Melee took its place and now competitive smash is stronger than ever. Doesn't it seem like crapping on brawl was definitely the right thing to do? If smash 4 is *** like brawl it'll get the same treatment. The truth is if brawl was good, it would be easy to brush off the criticism, and label the naysayers as trolls, but we can't. Somehow brawl supporters have become the minority. Why do you suppose that is?

You're talking about bashing Brawl like it was a good thing, sincerely, and from the bottom of my heart...
you're disgusting.
You're not just crapping on Brawl, you're crapping on everyone who liked Brawl way more than Melee for their own reasons, try to get this through your impossibly-thick skull, Melee being 'better' IS A GODDAMN OPINION! When you go to someone like "You know, Brawl's good for casual fun, but you wanna try the REAL game, Melee?" You're disrespecting that person because you're telling them that their opinion is somehow wrong, just because you and the army of people who worship Melee like a satanic cult like to bash on Brawl doesn't mean it's OK. Brawl wasn't **** or whatever you want to call it, Brawl's the favorite game of a lot of people, it's the game who got a lot of people into gaming as a whole (Like me) and I'm pretty sure you don't like me or anyone calling Melee "Twitchy, Jagged, Too fast for its own good, Glitchy, Overrated". You're unable to appreciate how Brawl can be more appealing to a lot of people and you keep using terms like 'definitive, main, absolute, real' like you know what you're talking about, when you're just using big words to describe Melee to inflate your own ego...

The only situation where we Brawl fans bash Melee happens when we defend ourselves from flame and hate, because there's not a single person that enjoyed Brawl that can't recognize how good Melee was and still is. But you Melee-drones somehow think that you have some sort of divine labor to prevent people from liking Brawl...if Brawl fans don't **** on Melee all the time, THEN WHY CAN'T YOU LEAVE THE GODDAMN GAME ALONE! Why not concentrate on saying how much you like Melee instead of saying how much you hate Brawl?

Brawl supporters have become the minority (Slight minority, that is) because like it's cool to hate Nintendo these days with overall gaming, the Competitive Smash Community has made hating Brawl 'cool' Through most members of the community ****ting on it endlessly mainly because it's not Melee 2.0, it really troubles me how some people can be so close-minded and obtuse. Melee has recently resurfaced, but it wasn't due to the Melee community being THAT huge, it was because that, no matter the number of people, Melee-fanboys are known to be among the most vocal and loud fanbase, shown better with the example of them actually BOOING ON A BRAWL TOURNAMENT. I mean, really? How low can you get to ensure that no one can enjoy something other than what you enjoy yourself?

You like Melee? Good, but people shouldn't play Melee 'because it's the definitive Smash Game' if people want to play Melee, they'll play Melee. If people want to play, enjoy, love and get better at Brawl, then they'll play Brawl, and if people want to play Smash4 with an open mind, not expecting it to be Melee 2.0, then they'll ****ING PLAY SMASH4 AND ENJOY IT!

I'll just ask something, does people liking Brawl over Melee actually have a negative effect on you? Just play whatever the hell you want to play and leave people alone, for Christ's sake!

No, Brawl didn't deserve half the hate it got, stop thinking that it did.

 

[LancerStaff]

The only situation where we Brawl fans bash Melee happens when we defend ourselves from flame and hate,-

...Yeah, no. This is the internet.

 

[---]

Alright this thread has gotten way too out of hand. It's just now Melee vs. Brawl fest.

Am going to lock this now. It may reopen, but that I'll leave open to debate with the other Smash 4 mods and @ Amazing Ampharos

 

[ndayday]

This was a good enough timeout.

This has great discussion potential, don't turn it into Melee vs. Brawl again.

 

[mimgrim]

There's a difference between merging the two communities and the both supporting each other. If anything, the past few years should have demonstrated that we more influential in numbers and there's no good reasons for the communities not to support each other. You don't have to like Brawl, but people in the Melee community should still support Brawl community and vice versa. Here's a list of reasons as to why:

1. Building good community experience for everyone. Brawl and Melee are often both featured in large tournaments and people respecting each other leads to better tournament experience for everyone. On the the second point...

2. Better experiences in the community lead to growth. It's disadvantageous to be narrow sighted. People playing Brawl now may switch to Melee, and vice versa. There are also people who enjoy both games. So why not build unity?

3. Communities supporting each other means larger influence in total. Without the Brawl community's support (Smash community as whole actually) we would've never raised enough awareness (Facebook poll) and money (Cancer drive) to make it to EVO. If we hadn't made it to EVO, Melee would not be in MLG and would be still having the "grassroots" status. Not to mention the massive overflow of new players entering the scene as a result of publicity.

4. Both communities are related and have share some history. Competetive Melee resulted in competitive Brawl while Brawl again raised awareness of Smash as a whole and eventually brough new players also to Melee scene.

tl:dr Everything is related, have respect.

And

A lot of Brawl players donated to get Melee into Evo at the Breast Cancer drive last year which started the new "golden age" of Melee that we're getting into. I considered Brawl being brought along to MLG as the favor being returned but the Brawl community just got shafted on that one.

The Brawl community owes the entire existence and architecture of their competitive community to Melee, while Melee owes it's biggest tournament series, Apex (which started as a Brawl major but has more or less made Melee it's main event), and all of it's exposure and professionalism to Brawl. Regardless of both communities perspectives on each other's games they're a lot more connected than most will want to admit.

From this thread; http://smashboards.com/threads/grouping-up-the-melee-and-brawl-communities.350116/

I'm just gonna leave this here. K thx bai.

 

[smashbroskilla]

Well yes, the video itself isn't relevant to the topic but it shows why Melee fans are the way they are and has many examples of gameplay elements that Brawl simply lacks. Even M2K likes MetaKnight the best because he's the only character that feels like Melee.

M2K plays to win. It has nothing to do with how Metaknight compares to melee. There's a reason Metaknight was in every match of top 8 apex 2014 Brawl singles. He's too good.