Social "For my Father" - Lucina Social Thread

[FamilyTeam]

My biggest problem with it was mostly his attitude:
Someone was making a big deal out of the "range diffierence" in the comments section, and I explained to them that the video was wrong - it was just exaggerating.
Hours later, Izaw himself answers to my comment saying that "there is a very small range difference" and then adds that "he works with the entire community while making the videos". No idea why he felt the need to add that.
I have several questions.
If the range difference is "so small", then why did you constantly make such a big deal about it whenever you could? How is her range smaller? Is it because she can't hit people on BF's platforms with Side Smash, like you showed Marth doing it and not Lucina? I thought I had disproven this crap months ago:

It's also funny how you conveniently left out the little detail that Marth can't hit the platform consistently at all, yet he made it seem like it was guranteed. You basically can't at all hit people while they're moving and it's hard to even hit them standing.
Second, why did you randomly point out that "you work with the whole community" while doing this? That list at the end of the video showing the players that helped you with the video showed no dedicated Lucina mains, so that really doesn't help stuff.
Third, he said he'd mention Lucina whenever it was relevant, yet he showed no Lucina combos and he'd basically only ever mention her to say "lol lucie can't do this" after showing some Marth stuff. It's not because Lucina has no combos either, because I don't think my 1200-line long document full of Lucina combos on most of the cast came out of nowhere.
That was a Marth guide, for people who wanted to play Marth, and nothing else. I'm sorry.

 

[Roy Kuchiki]

I honestly thought Lucina had equal potential to Marth. Apparently I was wrong

 

[FamilyTeam]

Whaddyou mean? IMO she has.

 

[Roy Kuchiki]

Lel Idk much about Lucina apparently, just reading what you wrote. I mean DOES she have less range than Marth? The one thing I know is she don't have dah tipper

 

[FamilyTeam]

She is very slightly shorter, which makes some of her moves have a very negligible amount lesser of vertical range. There is no practical application for this difference, though. They have the same horizontal range, and their vertical range is barely pixels off. People used to say this difference can make Marth hit people on BF's plataforms with his Side Smash, while Lucina supposedly could not, but I have long proven this is not the case.
Both of them have the same hitboxes on their moves, that's why the range's the same.

 

[Tomoya]

he used C-Lu for his Lucina source but imo I haven't seen him in forever let alone hear of him at all.

 

[FamilyTeam]

he used C-Lu for his Lucina source but imo I haven't seen him in forever let alone hear of him at all.

Haven't heard of C-Lu before and since Zero's video on the best Lucina.

 

[Tomoya]

he just went to the first EVO and used customs lucina lul

 

[EODM07]

It's nice to see this social become a bit active again after so long. <3

I am rather curious on where some of the best Lucinas have gone too. Haven't seen anything of C-Lu in a while, but Kogarasuma still going strong with her. All this talk is making me need to put practice into my Lucina once again. Also, with MKLeo winning ZeRo Saga. Do you think we might see Marth and Lucina go up the Tier List?

 

[FamilyTeam]

It's nice to see this social become a bit active again after so long. <3

I am rather curious on where some of the best Lucinas have gone too. Haven't seen anything of C-Lu in a while, but Kogarasuma still going strong with her. All this talk is making me need to put practice into my Lucina once again. Also, with MKLeo winning ZeRo Saga. Do you think we might see Marth and Lucina go up the Tier List?

Mate, knowing this forum, Marth is gonna go Top 10 for sure and some people are gonna sour their opinion even more on Lucina.
People are unironically saying Marth loses no MUs now.

 

[EODM07]

Mate, knowing this forum, Marth is gonna go Top 10 for sure and some people are gonna sour their opinion even more on Lucina.
People are unironically saying Marth loses no MUs now.

That's pretty dumb to be honest. She isn't as bad as everyone says she is. And them saying Marth not losing any MUs? Not every character is pre-patch Diddy. :V

But in all honesty, I see Lucina sitting at Upper Mid or High Tier if this is how it's going to go down.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I do believe Lucina can be as good as Marth, but we haven't had anyone good enough to actually show it.
If Nairo actually trained his Lucie, he could be the one to show the world, I believe.

 

[EODM07]

Same here. I feel like she is just as good as him. I mean, the only kind of players that I've watched use Lucina were Nika, NEO, ZeRo, Nairo, Kogarasuma and Komorikiri. But about 60% of them only use her in friendlies or just a way to counter a certain MU.

Just need to see one player who has mastered her or has been labbing her for a long time show how good she truly is.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I've been labbing her for a long time, now, and I'm gonna go on a massive binge to apply all I've learned and hopefully get a lot of experience soon.
Since Smash 4 doesn't show you how much time you spent on training mode, using the Wii U's activity log as reference, I think I labbed Lucina for approximately 37 hours this month, an with an average of 82 minutes per day. Woo. I learned so much, but I still need the experience to apply it.

 

[EODM07]

This is how much I've put in on Lucina. While it isn't a lot compared to other competitive smashers or those lab rats, but I still try and put as much time I can into labbing and having matches.

I'm hoping to eventually try and attend my first local tournament. Since I've mostly been taking part in online matches against other members of Smashboards (Mostly those who visit the Zelda Social). I am still going to lab Lucina more and try and find new tech for her. Been maining her for over 2 years now since the 3DS days. Have been times I wanted to drop her, but I've just stuck through with her even when she was considered a Bottom Tier.

Only been mostly finding strings with her, so nothing too amazing yet. Unlike those finding tech like Stun Jacket, but who knows. Someone out there might find some hidden tech with Lucina.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I don't have reliable statistics for my Lucina here because I barely do actual fighting, only training mode. I have no access to MP right now and training against bots is as good use of your time as not playing the game at all, so I just do whatever I need in training mode, and the devs must have something against using that, because the game just assumes you were just sitting in your arse doing nothing for the whole time the game was powered on while you were training so it records nothing.

If we can include 3DS statistics, here, I have some 47 hours with her, there.
I want to get 1000 hours with her 'til the end of the year. Not counting training mode labbing.

 

[EODM07]

That is a downer that it doesn't record those statistics. But I think I got maybe around 50/60-ish hours down on Lucina.

 

[Tomoya]

I have friends in the Backroom for Smash 4 and they are gonna be pushing for Lucina to be at least low high tier due to her abuse in mid tier only tournaments, (even tho those people still lose LMAO) and I agreed she's the bottom feeder among the top tiers

 

[FamilyTeam]

Makes sense. tbh I could even see how she would kinda be a Diddy Kong of the Mid tiers when there are no high tiers in sight. The only MUs she struggles with outside of the Top 17 are DK and Bowser, and even those are completely manageable to me.
That is great news to hear, truly.

 

[EODM07]

I honestly felt like the Rosalina and Mewtwo MUs were the worst for Lucina. But thanks for confirming it with me before that the Mewtwo MU is far more manageable.

And I kind of feel like she doesn't have a lot of weaknesses. Though I can only think of maybe two weaknesses she has. A predictable and easily gimpable recovery and not spacing correctly can get her punished even though she is more safe on shield throughout the whole of her blade.

But yeah, I can see her having trouble against DK and Bowser who are not Top 17. Since they have armour on some of their moves and can safely trade with many of her moves. Though this is probably me, but I do sometimes feel like Lucina struggles against both Pits, maybe I just can't figure out how to beat them.

 

[FamilyTeam]

According to the people in my scene, she is even against the Pits.
The MUs Lucina loses, imo, are . Out of those, Sheik, TLink and sometimes Fox are the most manageable, while Sonic is probably her worst, from what I studied so far. and are annoying but tbh they're nothing I'd consider losses.
Lucina's weaknesses are being overwhelmed, landing, and sometimes killing - though in MUs like and just Lightweights/Floaties alike, if you ever get tired of fighting them, just intercept an aerial approach from them with your Up Tilt, and if you have rage, you can KO with that in 125 or under, sometimes. These are the same issues Marth has had since always.
Also, random comment: I will still never forget the day I was playing on FG versus a Mewtwo, and when I was with Stage 2 Rage, I FSmashed him at 56% roughly at mid stage and KOed him, death sparks and all, heh.

 

[EODM07]

Rosalina is a really bad MU for Lucina. I've fought one Rosalina player so much that it's still annoying to fight. Though I feel like as long as you get rid of Luma, it'll become a bit more manageable. I will say one MU I feel like Lucina does really well in is against Wario.

While not related to Lucina, I did manage to get a VERY clutch kill in For Glory Teams. Which should've been the opposing teams win. I'll just get the montage.

Also, I somehow managed to kill a Lucario with the late hit of Lucina's Up B near the side blast zones.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I just want to point out that, after watching Leo's matches, I notice his Dthrow>Tipper Uair combos are only possible with Marth, Lucina doesn't have enough vertical reach for that, and that one thing alone gives Marth a lethal 50/50 (particularly on platforms) that she doesn't have.

I don't think that's her downfall, but I think it's important to mention.
Marth's aerials' tippers are broken

 

[Tomoya]

the tipper up air is only caused because everyone air dodges early into the throw and leo can just toss it out

and on the point of mu, marth has trouble with DK and Bowser since the brawl days where they have one move that outranges him entirely. those demons came back as DK can bair and they can't answer with much other than patience and spacing. bowser has his tough guy attribute that lets him be aggressive at early percentages. now the thing that makes the mu so rough is that both bowser and dk have a large pivot grab range, so they can pressure marth/lucina into the air and keep them there and shield their options and continue to grab them until they get the kill or marth/lucina are on the opposite side of the stage from them. the only bright side is that the same applies for them except you have to continuously juggle them into kill percentage or kill them at the edge.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I just want to point out that, after watching Leo's matches, I notice his Dthrow>Tipper Uair combos are only possible with Marth, Lucina doesn't have enough vertical reach for that, and that one thing alone gives Marth a lethal 50/50 (particularly on platforms) that she doesn't have.

I don't think that's her downfall, but I think it's important to mention.
Marth's aerials' tippers are broken

DThrow>Uair works as true at the mostly the same percentages for both, actually. I did test it. The difference never really surpasses some 2-3%. (Lucina can DThrow>Uair ZSS up to 82%, Marth is 83%, she can do that on Cloud up to 92%, Marth can do it up to 93%, etc. Marth won't kill on either btw, not even with no DI)
What I did notice is that the people who fight against MKLeo simply don't seem to want to escape his throw conversions or something. The fact more than one person ever has fallen to DThrow>Up Smash proves that. There was this once where Nairo got DThrow>Uair'd at 110% as ZSS on doubles vs. MKLeo, despite the fact that by that point he had more than half a second to jump out of it. He just randomly decided he wouldn't for some reason.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Which is why I stated the combo is way more dangerous on platforms (maybe I worded it poorly). I know it won't really kill on the ground during the window it's a true combo or 50/50, but on platforms is different and much, much scarier.

Though, I do agree that people not knowing when they are able to actually escape does exaggerate the effectiveness of the move.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Which is why I stated the combo is way more dangerous on platforms (maybe I worded it poorly). I know it won't really kill on the ground during the window it's a true combo or 50/50, but on platforms is different and much, much scarier.

Though, I do agree that people not knowing when they are able to actually escape does exaggerate the effectiveness of the move.

Yeah, you made it sound like Marth's was gonna work for a really long time after Lucina's and that it would somehow allow him to KO while it wouldn't with Lucina. It's what I interpreted it as.
People don't know how to play the Marth MU period. Marth is fairly young in the meta and thus they're getting away with a whole bunch of **** they never would otherwise. cough cough DThrow>Up Smash cough cough

 

[Tomoya]

Happy New Years Fellow Falchions, hope we all can get good as well as do well in life itself.

 

[LordXav1er]

How's it going fam ^_^

 

[FamilyTeam]

Hallooooo peoples.
It's been a while, hasn't it?

 

[LordXav1er]

Yeah I been more active in the discord I won't lie almost forgot about Smashboards

 

[FamilyTeam]

I don't blame you, I'm just waiting for a few things and I'm taking my leave off this site.
We all should talk on Discord, really;

 

[Tomoya]

theres a lucina discord? im the texas one but thats it. other lucina discords ive been in were inactive or abandoned rip

 

[LordXav1er]

AFTER 2 LONG YEARS I FINALLY DID IT!!!

Good Games Everyone tonight now I'm exhausted x_x


http://pcgsmash.challonge.com/Smash41_13_16

 

[FamilyTeam]

Oh, man, this looked like it was intense!
If there was a stream, I'm sad I missed it. Congratulations!

 

[EODM07]

Congrats on reaching GF LordXavier!

 

[Fastblade5035]

I'm a bit sad this place isn't so active. It really goes to illustrate how much Marth overshadows Lucina in the metagame right now. Still, I did have a question to ask in case anyone considers themselves sufficiently knowledgeable to answer.
Regarding Dancing Blade, I was wondering if anyone had some input on it's appropriate uses in battle. I don't really struggle with anything except the applications of Dancing Blade. Normally I don't know whether to take the up, forward or down angles, and I don't really know what I can get out of any of them.
I do know DB forward can kill, especially so with the lower angle before ending on the forward swipe, so that's usually my preferred angle at higher percents, and lower angle for low percents. Is the upper slash worth using, and is DB in generally just a punishing tool, or can it be more than that?

 

[EODM07]

I'm a bit sad this place isn't so active. It really goes to illustrate how much Marth overshadows Lucina in the metagame right now. Still, I did have a question to ask in case anyone considers themselves sufficiently knowledgeable to answer.
Regarding Dancing Blade, I was wondering if anyone had some input on it's appropriate uses in battle. I don't really struggle with anything except the applications of Dancing Blade. Normally I don't know whether to take the up, forward or down angles, and I don't really know what I can get out of any of them.
I do know DB forward can kill, especially so with the lower angle before ending on the forward swipe, so that's usually my preferred angle at higher percents, and lower angle for low percents. Is the upper slash worth using, and is DB in generally just a punishing tool, or can it be more than that?

I'll do my best to try and help with this. But Dancing Blade Up is usually used as a way to gain stage control over your opponent by launching them upwards. Dancing Blade Down is usually for dealing a lot of damage.

 

[Fastblade5035]

I'll do my best to try and help with this. But Dancing Blade Up is usually used as a way to gain stage control over your opponent by launching them upwards. Dancing Blade Down is usually for dealing a lot of damage.

Ah, I see. I can't believe I hadn't thought of using DB up for stage control, but that does make sense now that you mention it. Thanks for the swift reply, I hope this board sees a bit more activity too.

 

[FamilyTeam]

This is how I use it:
I use Up almost exclusively at Low percents because it deals more damage and also because I don't want to stale DB Forward, which is very strong. It also grants me more control and depending on the person and character, I can follow up.
I use Down only occasionally when I see that the entire cycle with actually hit the character.
I use Forward if I'm near the ledge and I want to try an edgeguard scenario and for killing.
The reason why this place is a bit inactive... is because most character boards are, really. Sadly it's the truth. Most people use the character discords.