Flame Choke Follow Up Guide

[rahsosprout]

Updated:

http://imgur.com/9LhItgJ

A few qualifying statements.

Obviously you can tech it, which is kinda annoying...but in case they don't hit the tech...

Diddy can cancel out of everything with neutral B. Megaman can do the same with up B. Not sure who else has hitstun cancelling moves. Rosalina seems to be able to hit us out of any followups with Luma.

Roll distance was based off of how far they ended up behind me. I assume rolling away is the same distance. A few characters are listed as "terrible" for roll distance which means they actually end up in front of you when trying to roll behind you.

For Roll Away followups, if it says "Yes" then Side B can be buffered against some people (assuming they also buffer the roll away), If it says "Yes (run)" and their roll is average or worse you could also pause before starting up the side b. If you do it too early, you'll go past them. For those with good rolls, you actually have to run a bit to catch them.

If they try to roll towards you, there are plenty of followups for hitting them AFTER the roll like SH d-air, F-smash, etc. Get creative. The ones I included hit them before they roll. Same applies for getup attacks.

Also Olimar seems to be the only one I get free D-smash on regardless of what he tries.

 

[Shogger]

I 1v1 a Captain Falcon main constantly, and I can never seem to land Flame Choke > Dtilt even when he doesn't tech. Do I just suck?

 

[Exalted]

I 1v1 a Captain Falcon main constantly, and I can never seem to land Flame Choke > Dtilt even when he doesn't tech. Do I just suck?

A possible explanation is that if you're not buffering your inputs the D-tilt will likely come out slower than it would if you had buffered it.

 

[Electric Tuba]

You can make a spreadsheet if you want it to look a little nicer. Color coding, too.

 

[AdaptiveTrigger]

The training mode will register Flame Choke into Dtilt as a true combo, but certain characters can escape with human input. Haven't been able to hit Sheik, Captain Falcon, or Ike with a Dtilt after a Flame Choke if they immediately do a wake up attack or roll. It is a guaranteed combo against certain characters though like Sonic and Kirby. Not sure why they made it like this so that it only works on certain characters like that...

 

[Z1GMA]

I 1v1 a Captain Falcon main constantly, and I can never seem to land Flame Choke > Dtilt even when he doesn't tech. Do I just suck?

The easy method: Don't tilt the stick all the way down when press attack.
Tilt it only like 20% down from the center and mash attack.
You can practice this by sparring in the air with Ganon. You'll se him Dtilt without crouching.

 

[kro_]

I've had troubles getting guaranteed D-tilt on Greninjas after flame choke when playing For Glory, and I know it's been frame-perfect, because the games were literally running in 1 frame per second

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I'm having huge issues against Ganondorf because of this combo (Playing Sonic)! How do I prevent myself from getting murdered by this as frequently?

 

[James N.]

A possible explanation is that if you're not buffering your inputs the D-tilt will likely come out slower than it would if you had buffered it.

Not to sound like a noob, but how do you go about deliberately buffering attacks? Isn't buffering a mechanic that's always in the game?

 

[Vermanubis]

I'm having huge issues against Ganondorf because of this combo (Playing Sonic)! How do I prevent myself from getting murdered by this as frequently?

You can tech it by pressing R as soon as you hit the ground. Other than that, not much you can do. Just don't get choked.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

You can tech it by pressing R as soon as you hit the ground. Other than that, not much you can do. Just don't get choked.

Gonna get a friend to use it on me over and over until I have the tech timing completely downloaded. Thanks!

 

[Bahamut777]

You're welcome.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Most of this is wrong. Even if the opponent doesn't tech, whether those three moves can hit or not depends on what the opponent will input.

For example, Ike would avoid DTilt if he were to roll away or getup attack.

 

[Shogger]

Most of this is wrong. Even if the opponent doesn't tech, whether those three moves can hit or not depends on what the opponent will input.

For example, Ike would avoid DTilt if he were to roll away or getup attack.

I see what you mean. I tested it out against my CF main friend and even the buffered Dtilt never hit him when he used a wakeup attack. More in-depth testing has to be done.

 

[Soshii]

Side B to Downtilt does not work on Donkey Kong

 

[Thinkaman]

Most of this is wrong. Even if the opponent doesn't tech, whether those three moves can hit or not depends on what the opponent will input.

For example, Ike would avoid DTilt if he were to roll away or getup attack.

Doesn't work on Greninja either, unless I'm just awful at buffering.

Meanwhile, I was able to consistently d-smash Olimar just like Brawl. Needs confirmation.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Usually I follow a Flame Choke up with a down tilt, you know his leg sweep, then I go for a finishing smash attack or kick in face.

 

[kro_]

Marth, Greninja and Lucina do not get guaranteed follow-ups. Probably other characters too, but I haven't been testing this. Go for a shield > jab or dash attack/ganon kick if they roll away. If you get flame choked, just roll the opposite direction Ganondorf is standing, which is the hardest place for him to attack in my opinion

 

[fromundaman]

You guys should also test whether or not you can get followups off of tech rolls if you guess correctly.

Once you play against Ganon for a little bit it becomes really easy to tech the flame choke, so it would be a good idea to know what you can do to stop that (Besides another FC, which I assume would work).

 

[rahsosprout]

Doesn't work on Greninja either, unless I'm just awful at buffering.

Meanwhile, I was able to consistently d-smash Olimar just like Brawl. Needs confirmation.

Yeah whoops. I guess this is only if they don't tech. I can test what happens if they do this weekend. I have another 3DS with smash on it. What would be the best way to test this? Is there a way to slow the game down so I could do both sets of inputs (the tech and the buffered followup)? I can tech it sometimes if I overlay the two consoles, but it's not ideal haha

Edit: I can also test d-smash and then maybe sort the characters by their roll distance and see which follow ups are possible if they miss the tech and go for the getup attack, roll away, roll toward, or simply get up. Also going to see whether each getup attack is away then towards, towards then away, or simultaneous. I'll probably update this Sunday once I get reliable enough data.

 

[Soshii]

I was wrong about the down tilt followup not working on DK. It only misses if they tech.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

I've been playing 1 vs 1 online and noticed Choke to Down tilt doesn't work against: DK, Marth, Lucina and Greninja. Proabably others too. These characters can use their get up attack right away, but! you can counter this by shielding than grabbing them after their get up attack. Works pretty much every time. But don't do it too much cause it would eat your shield up pretty fast.

 

[BANCHEEE]

I usually do flame choke to dtilt right off the start of the game but if it doesn't work then I'll try something else. But if they don't tech the choke I almost always go for dair

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

I usually early grab and shield, just to see what the opponent first does, then later in the match I grab and techchase with whatever feels most likely. Works pretty well.

 

[Soshii]

Yeah, a good combo I found against people who aren't good at reading/air dodging is Choke > Dtilt > SH Dair. That's literally around 45-50% in a matter of seconds, but again against less experienced players. And this is only against characters that the dtilt option works on/if they dont tech.

 

[rahsosprout]

EDIT: Still testing stuff. but just fyi, there are guranteed followups on Greninja :D. if they buffer the roll away, you can buffer side b to get another choke. if they buffer roll towards, you can get f-tilt and d-tilt

Updated OP with example output. Any suggestions for what else to test?

edit: rolling is easy to test since i can just hold the control stick. with getup attack i can mash a to do it asap. teching is tougher since im so focused on hitting the tech that im not sure im buffering ganons input.

 

[Alter Requiem]

Necromancing here, but if anyone has any idea about followups to successful techs that would be useful too. I'm sure theres a few character specific followups on a successful tech. (For instance Its possible for some characters to tech away and be hit by an unbuffered wizard foot, while others remain unharmed) I'd be willing to test collaboratively as I don't think I have enough free time to do all the characters in a timely fashion.

 

[adom4]

Necromancing here, but if anyone has any idea about followups to successful techs that would be useful too. I'm sure theres a few character specific followups on a successful tech. (For instance Its possible for some characters to tech away and be hit by an unbuffered wizard foot, while others remain unharmed) I'd be willing to test collaboratively as I don't think I have enough free time to do all the characters in a timely fashion.

, and all get hit by D-tilt on tech away.

 

[Alter Requiem]

, and all get hit by D-tilt on tech away.

This definitely helps, but considering the rarity of these matchups, I'll still start work on an extensive list.

 

[JAZZ_]

I love it when players dont tech and buffer a get up attack, easy SH Wizard' foot. This kills my smash buddy (mewtwo) pretty reliably at around 70% or so.

 

[theburningstars]

Would a reverse warlock punch on a slow roller like Samus be viable or is the read just too out there for it to matter?
I ask because when I face opponents, they get "trained" to the dtilt and SH wizard's foot quickly.

 

[JAZZ_]

Would a reverse warlock punch on a slow roller like Samus be viable or is the read just too out there for it to matter?
I ask because when I face opponents, they get "trained" to the dtilt and SH wizard's foot quickly.

Im not entirely sure it'll reach, sure Samus' roll is slow but it goes a ways, and its not that slow. I can see a Samus power shielding the hit as well if the roll doesn't get them away. However I cant really say, Because as a Samus main I won't let Ganon get the flame choke off. He's gonna have to make it through my Zair spacing, bomb traps and SHAD's before he can get close enough for the choke. Every Ganon I've fought hasnt been able to consistently land that move on me to the point where I can give you specifics.