First Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List

It is common for fighting game communities to create a tier list for their game as a source of reference and debate regarding the tournament viability of the cast. The Smash scene is no exception to this, and all games in the series have had a tier list posted to SmashBoards. More often than not, the website itself was instrumental to the creation of these lists, mainly through projects organized by the so-called Smash Back Room for each respective game.

Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS finds itself in the unique position of receiving patches, DLC characters and stages for more than a year after release, with two more characters still forthcoming. As a result of this, it made sense to hold off on tier list discussion until a period of relative stability came along. The current patch (1.1.3) left the majority of the cast relatively untouched and had Genesis 3 as a major showcase, so we chose this build as a foundation. With the recent launch of the 4BR, we were in a good position for the official tier list project to finally get underway.

The 4BR acknowledges that tier lists are often controversial and won't be perfect at the first iteration, if ever. We do, however, strive to study the game to the best of our ability and give a sincere opinion on the current state of affairs. As such, a tier list can be an important benchmark to look back on as the game progresses.

To illustrate this, compare the first and last tier lists for Brawl. Over the nearly 5 years separating the two, we saw the fall of top tier threats like King Dedede, R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch, the rise of supposed mid tiers like Captain Olimar and Zero Suit Samus and the blatant early misjudgment of Zelda's potential. Despite these major shifts, the majority of the cast did not end up that far from where they initially started.

Our community has pushed Smash 4 hard from day one, and we have more resources at our disposal than ever before, be it complete frame data, tutorials, or tournament footage. It will be interesting to see how this affects our accuracy in rating the cast, something only time will tell. All that being said, we are proud to present you the first official tier list for Smash Bros. for Wii U!

Procedure

In late December 2015, 4BR members were asked to distribute all 56 released characters across 20 tiers, with no differentiation within the same tier. Voters could place gaps wherever they wanted and there were no restrictions on the amount of characters in the same group. They had to assume play under the 1.1.3 patch with no custom moves allowed, while Miis had to be considered with their 1111 moveset only, in accordance with tournament reality at the biggest events. The 4BR at this moment has no official stance or recommendation on ruleset matters.

We agreed to let voting run until after Genesis 3, which would hopefully provide us with insights into especially the more recent additions to the cast, most notably Cloud. During the voting process, there was a separate topic for reasoning and discussion. We also asked a small group of non-members to submit a vote, in order to involve more people at the forefront of the metagame. We ended up with 53 votes, of which 34 were American and 19 were international.

These are the people who submitted a vote:

Spoiler: List of Voters

@AeroLink_the_SoulMaster (AeroLink)
@Alphicans
@Amazing Ampharos
@Ambrose (My Smash Corner)
@ASC | Red Ryu
@Camalange
@CHOMPY
@CYVE
@Dabuz
@DtJ XeroXen
@D1
@earth_tyt (Earth)
@False
@Fox Is Openly Deceptive
@gsmVoiD (VoiD)
@istudying
@John123456
@Katakiri
@k9.
@Liberation
Marc
@Meru.
@Mister Eric
@Mr-R
@Myran
@NAKAT
@NickRiddle
@nietono
@qb9b
@Ranai
@Raziek
@Rayquaza07
@Remzi (VABengal)
@rintarosu10 (RIN)
@san.
@Seagull Joe
@Shaya
@Slice~ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Spinosaurus
@SS_and_TH (Komorikiri)
@TA~Mav
@The calm tyrant... (Tyrant)
@TheReflexWonder
@Thinkaman
@Trela
@UltimateRazer (GrimTurtle)
@vyQ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Xiivi
@Xzax Kasrani
@Zan-
@Zigsta
@---
@-6WX-

Spoiler: Breakdown by region

USA
Atlantic North: 12
Midwest: 8
Pacific West: 7
Southwest: 4
Atlantic South: 3

International
Europe: 8
Japan: 6
Canada: 3
Australia: 2

Note that we will not release individual votes, but any voter is free to share his own vote with the public. The most notable abstainee was @TSM ZeRo, who felt it was still too early for a tier list.

Results

@Shaya processed the votes and found these average placements, standard deviations and gaps between average placements for the cast:

Spoiler: Raw voting data

Character | Average Placement | Standard Deviation | Gap
Sheik | 20.0 | 0.0 | 0.0
Zero Suit Samus | 19.46 | 0.708 | 0.538
Rosalina | 18.77 | 0.87 | 0.687
Ryu | 17.95 | 1.103 | 0.82
Pikachu | 17.86 | 1.065 | 0.099
Sonic | 17.83 | 1.269 | 0.021
Fox | 17.52 | 1.146 | 0.313
Mario | 17.51 | 1.108 | 0.014
Diddy Kong | 17.43 | 0.998 | 0.082
Meta Knight | 17.12 | 1.489 | 0.307
Villager | 16.52 | 1.614 | 0.597
Cloud | 16.5 | 1.657 | 0.023
Ness | 16.39 | 1.502 | 0.11
Captain Falcon | 15.16 | 1.767 | 1.228
Yoshi | 15.15 | 1.893 | 0.013
Luigi | 14.27 | 1.996 | 0.881
Dark Pit | 13.89 | 2.138 | 0.381
Pit | 13.88 | 2.308 | 0.006
Peach | 13.75 | 2.115 | 0.133
R.O.B. | 13.63 | 2.221 | 0.12
Wario | 13.56 | 1.898 | 0.067
Toon Link | 13.2 | 2.416 | 0.357
Lucario | 12.92 | 2.224 | 0.285
Olimar | 12.47 | 2.452 | 0.454
Greninja | 12.25 | 2.633 | 0.215
Ike | 12.12 | 2.425 | 0.126
Donkey Kong | 11.8 | 2.252 | 0.325
Mega Man | 11.41 | 2.159 | 0.386
Pac-Man | 11.29 | 2.278 | 0.124
Bowser | 10.81 | 2.66 | 0.477
Robin | 10.17 | 2.722 | 0.642
Roy | 9.29 | 3.209 | 0.883
Kirby | 9.1 | 3.388 | 0.183
Bowser Jr. | 8.93 | 2.671 | 0.176
Mr. Game & Watch | 8.72 | 2.47 | 0.21
Lucas | 8.65 | 2.993 | 0.071
Mewtwo | 8.35 | 2.666 | 0.297
Falco | 8.12 | 3.026 | 0.232
Wii Fit Trainer | 8.08 | 2.674 | 0.037
Shulk | 7.75 | 2.926 | 0.325
Marth | 7.72 | 2.237 | 0.038
Link | 7.47 | 2.474 | 0.249
Duck Hunt Dog | 7.18 | 3.11 | 0.283
Little Mac | 7.18 | 2.633 | 0.009
Dr. Mario | 7.14 | 2.437 | 0.033
King Dedede | 6.04 | 2.721 | 1.107
Lucina | 5.59 | 2.547 | 0.447
Mii Brawler | 5.01 | 2.952 | 0.584
Charizard | 4.79 | 2.255 | 0.218
Palutena | 4.78 | 2.199 | 0.008
Samus | 4.12 | 1.942 | 0.656
Mii Gunner | 3.6 | 2.153 | 0.525
Mii Swordsman | 3.32 | 2.054 | 0.282
Ganondorf | 3.23 | 1.675 | 0.082
Jigglypuff | 2.79 | 2.035 | 0.448
Zelda | 1.96 | 1.259 | 0.828

A standard deviation of (close to) 0 means that voters generally placed the character close to the mean, while a higher standard deviation means that the character had a larger range of placements. Most standard deviations are over 1, indicating that we are far from a consensus.

We considered all gaps over .50 as tier separation points and those above .75 for a change in label (Top, High, etc.). However, we decided against single character tiers and the C tier occupying a "High Mid" label with just two characters. Finally, we split F tier into two based on the largest difference within that group of 14 characters.

Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List v1.0 (1.1.3 patch)

Top
S:

High
A:
B:

Middle
C:
D:
E:

Low
F:
G:

Bottom
H:
I:
J:

Text version:

S: Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Rosalina & Luma
A: Ryu, Pikachu, Sonic, Fox, Mario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight
B: Villager, Cloud, Ness
C: Captain Falcon, Yoshi
D: Luigi, Dark Pit, Pit, Peach, R.O.B., Wario, Toon Link, Lucario
E: Captain Olimar, Greninja, Ike, Donkey Kong, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Bowser, Robin
F: Roy, Kirby, Bowser Jr., Mr. Game & Watch, Lucas, Mewtwo, Falco, Wii Fit Trainer
G: Shulk, Marth, Link, Duck Hunt, Little Mac, Dr. Mario
H: King Dedede, Lucina
I: Mii Brawler, Charizard, Palutena
J: Samus, Mii Gunner, Mii Swordfighter, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Zelda

Graphic version:

Conclusion

The first year of Smash 4 has been an absolute rollercoaster, with players flocking from Bowser to Diddy Kong to Sheik to Luigi to Donkey Kong to Sheik again. With the completion of the cast on the horizon and the nerfs and buffs slowing to a halt, the game can be expected to come to full fruition in 2016. We can't wait to see the Smash 4 tier list evolve over the years as Smashers all over the world rise to the challenge -- and with them, their respective characters.

What do you think of the tier list? Would you have placed any characters differently? Let us know what your thoughts and questions are and we will try to address the most common ones in a followup article, which will also include a more in-depth analysis of the results with statements by 4BR members.

Major thanks go out to @Shaya for processing the votes, @Zigsta and @Liberation for helping with the release and @Xiivi, @Shaya, and @Camalange for collecting outside votes and various odds and ends. Finally, a shoutout to all the voters for their time and input. I was proud to spearhead this project and receive help from so many dedicated people.

 

Welp, Zelda's bottom tier three Smash games in a row.

Better luck next time, gorl.

Nah, she just sandbagging so she can claim both absolute top and absolute bottom... you know since her relationship with Sheik is very... personal

 

Footstool combos dont happen in competitive play.
Still, he is too low and most definitely not mid tier with the tools at his disposal.

...Except that they do? I've seen plenty. But yeah, I think I'll just ignore mid-tier and lower on this list for a while since everyone's actually on the fence about them due to roster size and inadequate representation. They'll become more accurate eventually.

 

*Sees that Link is placed as a low tier*
I totally agree. Not like he has kill set ups or a better neutral game than almost half the characters above him. Lack of representation at its finest.

 

The main thing that dominates here is lack of representation. Notice that all the characters who are in bottom/low tier are all characters that just were hardly if not at all seen in major tournaments. That doesn't mean the character is actually worse than the others above. So essentially this is only an representation level list, not a tier list.

To any top player: I dare you to go to the lab with Mii sword, try his best set (IMO) of 2332 and see that this is not a bottom tier character. Why not try the chakram infinite? I played friendlies on a tourney day with that and beat a lot of people who were eager to challenge me. A Link main actually won that tourney from a really good MK main. He beat me too.
Now I'm constantly practicing Shulk and the kill setup combo's he can do with monado cancelling. He's basically the only character in the game that can (sort of) legit L-cancel. How is that low tier? No results is how. I'll just wait for this to finetune by next year.

 

Even with the past patch's. No one has had serious change for a couple of patches now. So Bayo and Corrin probably won't even affect this tier list much..

Unless they are hilariously broken..which no character since Diddy's Hoo Ha, has been. This Tier List won't change.

Plus its been a year and no ones really move greatly even with Patches.

It'll probably be another year before we get another Tier List unless Bayo and Corrin show promise and pull some results.

edit: a word.

 

When I look at this list, I generally look at it in the mixture between favorable match-ups and representation said characters' appearances in most tournaments. And for the list so far, it's an ok backbone to work upon. Obviously, this still needs revision (newer character placements, tier list format, etc.) and one can really argue that it's released too soon not because tomorrow's update, but because the results of tomorrow's update in a long-term manner.

For what it is now, nothing strikes me as completely out there and is still relatively the same (the blonde trinity, retired top tiers @ high tier, the ever-changing mid and low tier, Samus, Ganondorf and Zelda still living the Brawl dream, etc.). And funny enough, unless results of said salty people's mains are higher, probably not much will be changed even long after the upcoming update.

 

The main thing that dominates here is lack of representation. Notice that all the characters who are in bottom/low tier are all characters that just were hardly if not at all seen in major tournaments. That doesn't mean the character is actually worse than the others above. So essentially this is only an representation level list, not a tier list.

To any top player: I dare you to go to the lab with Mii sword, try his best set (IMO) of 2332 and see that this is not a bottom tier character. Why not try the chakram infinite? I played friendlies on a tourney day with that and beat a lot of people who were eager to challenge me. A Link main actually won that tourney from a really good MK main. He beat me too.
Now I'm constantly practicing Shulk and the kill setup combo's he can do with monado cancelling. He's basically the only character in the game that can (sort of) legit L-cancel. How is that low tier? No results is how. I'll just wait for this to finetune by next year.

Regardless of his specials..his Smashes are horrible, and so are his tilts and recovery. Even when you change his moveset..which would involve custom moves.

His over all Neutral is still terrible.

> I beat a bunch of people at a local tournament who were eager to challenge me.

Irrelevant. I beat people with Doctor Mario religiously at friendlies and locals, that doesn't make his Tier ranking any different. His weaknesses out weigh his strength.

> Now I'm constantly practicing Shulk and the kill setup combo's he can do with monado cancelling. He's basically the only character in the game that can (sort of) legit L-cancel. How is that low tier? No results is how.

Monado Cancelling, while it makes using Monado Arts easier..doesn't make up for Shulks awful frame data and neutral even if different arts change his Neutral a bit. His range doesn't even make up for it.

He's another character you have to put in extra effort to not only get good with, but to actually compete you need to be able to get over his flaws. Which are easy to exploit to any competent player.

Edit: Another..word..

 

How does Roy go from B to F from one tier list to another lol?!

 

Tier list perfect I find.

With the exception of Roy is a little too low

 

How does Roy go from B to F from one tier list to another lol?!

Because the hype train stopped and people realized he's just...stronger Marth..

 

What is the change? Where is the source?

Tipper fair did 13% in the FFA video with Corrin/Bayo. It does 10 in 1.1.3 iIrc.

 

It's awful.

 

You guys slayed the hell out of Falco.
I won't complain too much, because I only feel that he's mid tier, but really? Under Bowser and Greninja?
I don't like that at all...

 

To any top player: I dare you to go to the lab with Mii sword, try his best set (IMO) of 2332 and see that this is not a bottom tier character. Why not try the chakram infinite?

Here's the issue. Most of these top players who are in the 4BR are against Mii freedom. So they only use 1111 Mii as the standard. Pretty BS I know but that's how it goes with top players.

 

& This is Why i dont Follow Tiers however its cool to see this is what the backroom "official" ppl think Also Corrinetta hasnt Dropped Yet soo all dis will SOON Change by Summer of 2016 most likely...

 

This list is ridiculous. Why does middle tier start so high and end so high? The roster is ****ing huge, so why does it end with ROBIN of all people at 31 when you have 13 top tiers? And why right before Bayo and Corrin? They come out TOMORROW WITH A NEW PATCH. Don't even start with character placements. There's so much wrong with this, there's a ton of reasons to post complaint.

 

I feel that roy should at least be higher than robin but im no expert

 

Interesting one :D

 

It is common for fighting game communities to create a tier list for their game as a source of reference and debate regarding the tournament viability of the cast. The Smash scene is no exception to this, and all games in the series have had a tier list posted to SmashBoards. More often than not, the website itself was instrumental to the creation of these lists, mainly through projects organized by the so-called Smash Back Room for each respective game.

Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS finds itself in the unique position of receiving patches, DLC characters and stages for more than a year after release, with two more characters still forthcoming. As a result of this, it made sense to hold off on tier list discussion until a period of relative stability came along. The current patch (1.1.3) left the majority of the cast relatively untouched and had Genesis 3 as a major showcase, so we chose this build as a foundation. With the recent launch of the 4BR, we were in a good position for the official tier list project to finally get underway.

The 4BR acknowledges that tier lists are often controversial and won't be perfect at the first iteration, if ever. We do, however, strive to study the game to the best of our ability and give a sincere opinion on the current state of affairs. As such, a tier list can be an important benchmark to look back on as the game progresses.

To illustrate this, compare the first and last tier lists for Brawl. Over the nearly 5 years separating the two, we saw the fall of top tier threats like King Dedede, R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch, the rise of supposed mid tiers like Captain Olimar and Zero Suit Samus and the blatant early misjudgment of Zelda's potential. Despite these major shifts, the majority of the cast did not end up that far from where they initially started.

Our community has pushed Smash 4 hard from day one, and we have more resources at our disposal than ever before, be it complete frame data, tutorials, or tournament footage. It will be interesting to see how this affects our accuracy in rating the cast, something only time will tell. All that being said, we are proud to present you the first official tier list for Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS!

Procedure

In late December 2015, 4BR members were asked to distribute all 56 released characters across 20 tiers, with no differentiation within the same tier. Voters could place gaps wherever they wanted and there were no restrictions on the amount of characters in the same group. They had to assume play under the 1.1.3 patch with no custom moves allowed, while Miis had to be considered with their 1111 moveset only, in accordance with tournament reality at the biggest events. The 4BR at this moment has no official stance or recommendation on ruleset matters.

We agreed to let voting run until after Genesis 3, which would hopefully provide us with insights into especially the more recent additions to the cast, most notably Cloud. During the voting process, there was a separate topic for reasoning and discussion. We also asked a small group of non-members to submit a vote, in order to involve more people at the forefront of the metagame. We ended up with 53 votes, of which 34 were American and 19 were international.

These are the people who submitted a vote:

Spoiler: List of Voters

@AeroLink_the_SoulMaster (AeroLink)
@Alphicans
@Amazing Ampharos
@Ambrose (My Smash Corner)
@ASC | Red Ryu
@Camalange
@CHOMPY
@CYVE
@Dabuz
@DtJ XeroXen
@D1
@earth_tyt (Earth)
@False
@Fox Is Openly Deceptive
@gsmVoiD (VoiD)
@istudying
@John123456
@Katakiri
@k9.
@Liberation
Marc
@Meru.
@Mister Eric
@Mr-R
@Myran
@NAKAT
@NickRiddle
@nietono
@qb9b
@Ranai
@Raziek
@Rayquaza07
@Remzi (VABengal)
@rintarosu10 (RIN)
@san.
@Seagull Joe
@Shaya
@Slice~ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Spinosaurus
@SS_and_TH (Komorikiri)
@TA~Mav
@The calm tyrant... (Tyrant)
@TheReflexWonder
@Thinkaman
@Trela
@UltimateRazer (GrimTurtle)
@vyQ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Xiivi
@Xzax Kasrani
@Zan-
@Zigsta
@---
@-6WX-

Spoiler: Breakdown by region

USA
Atlantic North: 12
Midwest: 8
Pacific West: 7
Southwest: 4
Atlantic South: 3

International
Europe: 8
Japan: 6
Canada: 3
Australia: 2

Note that we will not release individual votes, but any voter is free to share his own vote with the public. The most notable abstainee was @TSM ZeRo, who felt it was still too early for a tier list.

Results

@Shaya processed the votes and found these average placements, standard deviations and gaps between average placements for the cast:

Spoiler: Raw voting data

Character | Average Placement | Standard Deviation | Gap
Sheik | 20.0 | 0.0 | 0.0
Zero Suit Samus | 19.46 | 0.708 | 0.538
Rosalina | 18.77 | 0.87 | 0.687
Ryu | 17.95 | 1.103 | 0.82
Pikachu | 17.86 | 1.065 | 0.099
Sonic | 17.83 | 1.269 | 0.021
Fox | 17.52 | 1.146 | 0.313
Mario | 17.51 | 1.108 | 0.014
Diddy Kong | 17.43 | 0.998 | 0.082
Meta Knight | 17.12 | 1.489 | 0.307
Villager | 16.52 | 1.614 | 0.597
Cloud | 16.5 | 1.657 | 0.023
Ness | 16.39 | 1.502 | 0.11
Captain Falcon | 15.16 | 1.767 | 1.228
Yoshi | 15.15 | 1.893 | 0.013
Luigi | 14.27 | 1.996 | 0.881
Dark Pit | 13.89 | 2.138 | 0.381
Pit | 13.88 | 2.308 | 0.006
Peach | 13.75 | 2.115 | 0.133
R.O.B. | 13.63 | 2.221 | 0.12
Wario | 13.56 | 1.898 | 0.067
Toon Link | 13.2 | 2.416 | 0.357
Lucario | 12.92 | 2.224 | 0.285
Olimar | 12.47 | 2.452 | 0.454
Greninja | 12.25 | 2.633 | 0.215
Ike | 12.12 | 2.425 | 0.126
Donkey Kong | 11.8 | 2.252 | 0.325
Mega Man | 11.41 | 2.159 | 0.386
Pac-Man | 11.29 | 2.278 | 0.124
Bowser | 10.81 | 2.66 | 0.477
Robin | 10.17 | 2.722 | 0.642
Roy | 9.29 | 3.209 | 0.883
Kirby | 9.1 | 3.388 | 0.183
Bowser Jr. | 8.93 | 2.671 | 0.176
Mr. Game & Watch | 8.72 | 2.47 | 0.21
Lucas | 8.65 | 2.993 | 0.071
Mewtwo | 8.35 | 2.666 | 0.297
Falco | 8.12 | 3.026 | 0.232
Wii Fit Trainer | 8.08 | 2.674 | 0.037
Shulk | 7.75 | 2.926 | 0.325
Marth | 7.72 | 2.237 | 0.038
Link | 7.47 | 2.474 | 0.249
Duck Hunt Dog | 7.18 | 3.11 | 0.283
Little Mac | 7.18 | 2.633 | 0.009
Dr. Mario | 7.14 | 2.437 | 0.033
King Dedede | 6.04 | 2.721 | 1.107
Lucina | 5.59 | 2.547 | 0.447
Mii Brawler | 5.01 | 2.952 | 0.584
Charizard | 4.79 | 2.255 | 0.218
Palutena | 4.78 | 2.199 | 0.008
Samus | 4.12 | 1.942 | 0.656
Mii Gunner | 3.6 | 2.153 | 0.525
Mii Swordsman | 3.32 | 2.054 | 0.282
Ganondorf | 3.23 | 1.675 | 0.082
Jigglypuff | 2.79 | 2.035 | 0.448
Zelda | 1.96 | 1.259 | 0.828

A standard deviation of (close to) 0 means that voters generally placed the character close to the mean, while a higher standard deviation means that the character had a larger range of placements. Most standard deviations are over 1, indicating that we are far from a consensus.

We considered all gaps over .50 as tier separation points and those above .75 for a change in label (Top, High, etc.). However, we decided against single character tiers and the C tier occupying a "High Mid" label with just two characters. Finally, we split F tier into two based on the largest difference within that group of 14 characters.

Official 4BR Smash for Wii U and 3DS Tier List v1.0 (1.1.3 patch)

Top
S:

High
A:
B:

Middle
C:
D:
E:

Low
F:
G:

Bottom
H:
I:
J:

Text version:

S: Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Rosalina & Luma
A: Ryu, Pikachu, Sonic, Fox, Mario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight
B: Villager, Cloud, Ness
C: Captain Falcon, Yoshi
D: Luigi, Dark Pit, Pit, Peach, R.O.B., Wario, Toon Link, Lucario
E: Captain Olimar, Greninja, Ike, Donkey Kong, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Bowser, Robin
F: Roy, Kirby, Bowser Jr., Mr. Game & Watch, Lucas, Mewtwo, Falco, Wii Fit Trainer
G: Shulk, Marth, Link, Duck Hunt, Little Mac, Dr. Mario
H: King Dedede, Lucina
I: Mii Brawler, Charizard, Palutena
J: Samus, Mii Gunner, Mii Swordfighter, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Zelda

Graphic version:

Conclusion

The first year of Smash 4 has been an absolute rollercoaster, with players flocking from Bowser to Diddy Kong to Sheik to Luigi to Donkey Kong to Sheik again. With the completion of the cast on the horizon and the nerfs and buffs slowing to a halt, the game can be expected to come to full fruition in 2016. We can't wait to see the Smash 4 tier list evolve over the years as Smashers all over the world rise to the challenge -- and with them, their respective characters.

What do you think of the tier list? Would you have placed any characters differently? Let us know what your thoughts and questions are and we will try to address the most common ones in a followup article, which will also include a more in-depth analysis of the results with statements by 4BR members.

Major thanks go out to @Shaya for processing the votes, @Zigsta and @Liberation for helping with the release and @Xiivi, @Shaya, and @Camalange for collecting outside votes and various odds and ends. Finally, a shoutout to all the voters for their time and input. I was proud to spearhead this project and receive help from so many dedicated people.

This. This is cancer. Honestly. Everything below high is so damn wrong.

 

Just a reminder: Brawl Ganondorf (used by Fonz) once won a tournament. Real one. But we all know he is useless thanks to his frame data...except for japanese Brawl players, who have Jiggs and Samus as worst characters and Ganondorf is 31st instead of 36th.
And next patch isn't going to change everything. Judging from how things were handled before, Samus, Jigglypuff and Zelda will still be bad characters while Top 3 will barely change.

 

This list is going to be invalidated come tomorrow. Way too early to be posting this.

 

I find it odd that people say that patches won't change much when people seem to forget that Metaknight was once considered one of the worst swordsmen in the game. Along with this, were widely considered low tier when the game first came out and were considered bottom.

 

Luigi is no way in Hell D tier.... I get certain matches are not good for him, but jeez murdered in this tier list.

 

Everyone going around saying how bad the tier list is and that the patch update tomorrow makes this whole thing pointless is the exact reason why we have a Backroom and specific people making the Tier List..

Love how folk are saying this Tier List is wrong..but don't explain how they feel despite the people who are involved with it are making justified and realistic choices on why people are in certain spots.

The patch update isn't going to magically make Bowser A+ Tier..

Or Doctor Mario B+ Tier..

Or so on and so forth. We've seen community voted or created Tier Lists. No one ever agree's. It's always "What? This Character shouldn't be so low he/she should be ______" or "Under represented...they clearly are better"

The Tier List isn't completely based on Results. It's based on many different variables..

Why aren't some of the characters "Higher" or "Represented in Tournaments" Because their bad..

Clearly this is my opinion on "Good and Bad" Characters in Smash 4. But I only label certain ones Bad based on what they have to offer and how well they do what they do and how badly they struggle against other characters.

And if other characters can just do what they can do but better without any of the glaring weaknesses.

 

I find it odd that people say that patches won't change much when people seem to forget that Metaknight was once considered one of the worst swordsmen in the game. Along with this, were widely considered low tier when the game first came out and were considered bottom.

I'm still pretty sure people thought Bowser was still high tier during the 3DS days, though. Even then, I agree with your sentiments. Patches have helped out a lot of characters.

 

The tier is perfect for them. Amazing characters with nobody really representing them to push them into the high tier. If they start getting top 8s at majors I see them easily pushing A near the top of B.

With the growth of the metagame, I feel like E tier is way too low. Should be near the top of D below and .

Some random things I don't agree with.

and are way too low, should be near top of the bottom.

and should be J tier, they're both awful.

should be mid tier, swap him with .

Despite getting buffed, I still think should be at the top of the bottom tier or bottom of low tier.

Personal bias but I think is better than . I just really hate .

All that aside I think all the characters from Top-Mid tier are all tourney viable, including and .

This game has such a good balance of characters apart from the bottom that almost anyone from the top half of the cast can be played and challenge competitively. Pretty sweet.

 

Utterly terrible list.

 

I'm still pretty sure people thought Bowser was still high tier during the 3DS days, though. Even then, I agree with your sentiments. Patches have helped out a lot of characters.

He wasn't. People initially thought that because of the limited roster and limited experience but when the full game came out it was found that a lot of characters picked him apart. It's like how people saw Little Mac as good until it was found out how easy it was to exploit his weaknesses.

 

Need a few improvements. Then again this is the first official tier list for Sm4sh so of course it isn't perfect. I honestly don't think mii brawler and swordsman are that bad.

 

Really I think the list needs to be reformatted before there are any talks about character placements. Like it's just silly that we're talking about "F tier" characters but we mean "low tier characters that are still decent to the point that you can do well with them". When people say F tier they mean F as in FAIL as in really bad and you should never play them ever. And I tier? What the heck does that even mean?

Also I question the consistency of this list. You can't just come up with rules for categorizing things and then ignore them for single categorizations just because it doesn't look as nice. According to the criteria listed, Rosalina, Robin, and Samus should all have their own tiers. Furthermore, why was Olimar's 0.454 difference rounded up for a tier break but not Bowser's 0.477?

That being said though, this is the first list, so there are bound to be problems with it. But really, this seems more like a rough draft then a finalized list. It's hard to use a tier list as it's designed when you have things like G and J tiers that don't make sense or hold meaning to the players.

 

Hi, I know most of you won't listen to me since I'm not exactly the most prominent member on this site, but I have validity. I'm the best Greninja, Pit, and Mario player in Jacksonville, Florida, and am around top 20 in my region, or around there. Top and high tier look fine for the most part, except for the fact that I think Cloud is grossly overrated in singles, but no one really cares. Next, Luigi should be above Captain Falcon and Yoshi, he has better results than both of these characters thanks to Mr. Concon and Boss at a local level. These three characters should be infused with Ness, Cloud (Who I don't think should be there but everyone thinks he's good so w/e), and Villager in B tier, so the middle tier is smaller and there isn't separate tier for 2 characters in the middle of the tier list. Second, there is a reason half the people on this thread want Roy higher. Roy is a very polarizing topic in the smash 4 community, and there are two camps, those who think not only is he viable, but mid-high tier, and those who think he's unviable. I personally think he's the former but am more than willing to compromise by putting Roy in middle tier above Robin and Bowser, Bowser is a gimmick character with no concrete results as of yet and Robin is only used as a secondaries (Nairo, for example, just as ZeRo uses Roy as a secondary and still honestly thinks he's either the best or 2nd best FE character to date.) so personally I think he should be in mid tier. other than that, I would only change a few spots other than that, solid list other than those complaints.

 

I don't agree with Fox being so high. I never see Fox players and on the rare occasion I do I stomp them with my Villager even if I go 2-3 months without playing. And I'm not even good. I think Fox is C at BEST.

Edit: I failed to mention that I don't pay much attention to Smash 4 outside of my area as Smash 4 doesn't interest me much and my local doesn't have many Fox players. If Fox does truly does deserve that placement I apologize for my ignorance. I'm sorry guys.

 

Comments:
Perfectly fine.
is much better than anyone in A, is the worst in A. has a solid record to not be top 5. are fine, not top 5, and should be in this tier. is much better than and is worse than everyone in A tier. B tier should fuse with C tier all honesty. is NOT A TOP 15 character. KILL THE HYPE. Every character in mid tier and some low tier heroes have accomplished more than . He should be at bottom E tier. should be in his place. should be with . is too inconsistent to be in D tier. should take place. is garbage tier just like . He does not deserve to be in F tier. and belong in F tier. are not J tier. is the worst character in the game no questions asked, if you say he is A tier please stop, and see this is CUSTOMLESS. is not J tier.

I don't agree with Fox being so high. I never see Fox players and on the rare occasion I do I stomp them with my Villager even if I go 2-3 months without playing. And I'm not even good. I think Fox is C at BEST.

Ya kidding? Fox has consistent top placings in just about every Smash 4 tournament in history, both US and Japan and everywhere else really.

 

Top half of the list is pretty solid, I feel like. MK is probably going to rise above Mario and Cloud might drop once his recovery is fully exposed, but otherwise I like what I'm seeing.

The bottom half feels a little more random, but it's bound to be.

 

Some of these arguments about the tier letters going from S to J are incredibly asinine to me. If a character is hot **** then that character is ****, and it doesn't matter if the tier they're in is called J or C-. Bottom tier is bottom, mid is mid, etc.

 

I don't agree with Fox being so high. I never see Fox players and on the rare occasion I do I stomp them with my Villager even if I go 2-3 months without playing. And I'm not even good. I think Fox is C at BEST.

Dude Fox is good. I think 7th is a good place for Fox. insane frame data, quick movement speed, amazing PP Utilt and Pivot ftilt, has cool jab locks, good edgeguarding moves like FF Fair, but obviously has problems, (fast falling, light, expolitable recovery, that's it.) but yeah Fox is good

 

Comments:

Ya kidding? Fox has consistent top placings in just about every Smash 4 tournament in history, both US and Japan and everywhere else really.

I honestly don't pay much attention to the Smash 4 scene outside of my local area as Smash 4 doesn't interest me much. If that is the case I apologize for my ignorance.

 

Dude Fox is good. I think 7th is a good place for Fox. insane frame data, quick movement speed, amazing PP Utilt and Pivot ftilt, has cool jab locks, good edgeguarding moves like FF Fair, but obviously has problems, (fast falling, light, expolitable recovery, that's it.) but yeah Fox is good

I guess I'll just have to say this to everyone. I honestly don't pay much attention to the Smash 4 scene outside of my local area as Smash 4 doesn't interest me much but if that is the case I apologize for my ignorance

 

I guess I'll just have to say this to everyone. I honestly don't pay much attention to the Smash 4 scene outside of my local area as Smash 4 doesn't interest me much but if that is the case I apologize for my ignorance

nah u good fam

 

my full and complete thought on the list: Top tier is ok, Ryu is overrated, Mario is overrated, MK is overrated, Luigi is underrated, Ness is underrated, Pit>Dark Pit, Bowser and Robin should switch with Roy and Kirby, Doc should be where shulk is, Zard is too low. Combine C and B tier and put Luigi above Falcon and Yoshi. Lucas and Jr. are also slightly underrated. WFT>Falco. Cloud is overrated. Greninja is fine. Everything else I would probably only move a couple spots or keep it exactly where it is.