Fireballs

[UltiMario]

I agree with your post 110%
Fireballs > Pills
Mario > Dr. Mario
=D

 

[Cocoashadow]

missiles > Fireballs and Pills
pwnt

 

[Eggz]

true that. =[

 

[Fogo]

cape > missiles


also: dodging skills >missles

 

[LuigiMax]

lol I assure you it exists, Eggz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqyVGCBaVGU

You don't see it as often because Docs rarely fulljump pills because unlike Mario, they don't need to try and bounce them higher. All it does for Doc is inhibit the approach against many characters since they can get under it easier.

I agree with this guy COMPLETELY!!

 

[LuigiMax]

fireballs ftw


the trajectory makes it so much easier to hit ppl from far away, whereas pills fall straight down.


pill=gay.

lol they just hit ppl from far away dude, what if ur opponent is near u?? I have escaped from air combos with the pill most of the time and since its trajectory is different, its better cause if u are in the air u can save urself from any kind of air or ground combo. Ohh! and u can change their trajectory if u full jump backwards or forward so Doc's full jump pill + waveland is waay better thanks to its trajectory. If u full jump pill forward then the pills will go down and if u full jump pill backwards then the pills trajectory will change to forward but not as straight forward as Mario's fireball. The fireball only goes forward and it can force ur opponent to approach but once they approach they're useless...

Pills >>> Fireballs

 

[Super Mari0]

zomfg

Pills >>> Fireballs

1. They do more damage and YES, IT DOES MAKE THEM SUPERIOR >__>
2. Pills are faster. Ive checked >_>
3. You can do anything Mario does with his Fireballs (Fulljump Fireball to WaveLand to whatever)
4. They go more downwards in the jump so they are more convenient for approaching near.
5. When using fireballs you need to take distance.

Eggz just showed us that Fireballs can also be very usefull and these tricks helped me out but...

PILLS ****IN OWN FIREBALLS idiots >__>'

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

zomfg

Pills >>> Fireballs

1. They do more damage and YES, IT DOES MAKE THEM SUPERIOR >__>

ok a whole 2-3 extra damage i'll give you that much

2. Pills are faster. Ive checked >_>

I'm pretty sure Fireballs are faster I just checked

3. You can do anything Mario does with his Fireballs (Fulljump Fireball to WaveLand to whatever)

...you can't full jump pill->double jump pill->waveland...but you can full jump fireball->double jump fireball-> waveland

4. They go more downwards in the jump so they are more convenient for approaching near.

ok

5. When using fireballs you need to take distance.

fireballs are usually better for long range but you don't NEED. I mean I have been point blank and shot a fireball and stopped an attack

 

[brawlpro]

The first post is amazing, keep reppin eggz.

 

[Eggz]

I like how every mario player is ****** every doc player via discussion. sup doc boards? *****es aint shiet

 

[Dogysamich]

Eh, i personally like fireballs better than pills, but i play both so i know in the end it's just preference.

I'm pretty sure Fireballs are faster I just checked

I sure as hell hope you mean travel speed, cause animation wise, they're both identical. XD

...you can't full jump pill->double jump pill->waveland...but you can full jump fireball->double jump fireball-> waveland

And because they're both identical, this quote just looks dumb.

-------------------------------------
Pill

Total: 43
Pill comes out: 14
Pill lasts: 75 frames
Fastfall any time

-------------------------------------
Fireball

Total: 43
Fireball comes out: 14
Fireball lasts: 75 frames
fastfall anytime
-------------------------------------

So anyway. What else can the docs and marios mindlessly argue over? Who has the better tornado?!!? LAWL!!!

And just to ignite even more pointless flames.
EGGZ THAT'S ALOT OF TALK COMIN FROM A FOX PLAYER. YOU DONT EVEN MAIN MARIO, WHADDYAYOUKNOW!? XD

/me flees

 

[Gimpyfish62]

fireballs are better because you cant fireball spike with pills.

i've been saying that since i smashed in hawaii, come on guys this isn't difficult stuff here.

 

[LuigiMax]

...you can't full jump pill->double jump pill->waveland...but you can full jump fireball->double jump fireball-> waveland

DUDE!! lol of course u can full jump pill->double jump pill->waveland... U are just slow...

fireballs are usually better for long range but you don't NEED. I mean I have been point blank and shot a fireball and stopped an attack

Dude... with pills u can stop ALMOST!! and I said almost not every!! ALMOST every attack in the game, there are others that its obvious u cant stop them but MOST of them yes... I dont know if fireballs do the same but i can assure u pills can. U can stop even every attack marth has with pills. If u were a Doc player u could notice the difference.

fireballs are better because you cant fireball spike with pills.

U cant fireball spike with pills because they are not fireballs... and if such thing does exists then it wouldnt be called fireball spike, it would be called pill spike not fireball spike with pills .

3. You can do anything Mario does with his Fireballs (Fulljump Fireball to WaveLand to whatever)
4. They go more downwards in the jump so they are more convenient for approaching near.
5. When using fireballs you need to take distance.

Quoted for truth!





Edit 1: As I said before... whats the point of calling fireballs better than pills just because they hit from long range ehh?? what if ur opponent gets near u?? if ur opponent gets near u enough then fireballs are useless... On the other hand, thanks to pills trajectory u can pill spam from long range as for short range if u really know how to pill spam correctly. And YES!! when i said long range i mean it... cause If u short hop pill then the pills will go forward and have a decent range, but It doesnt have the range fireballs have and thats for sure..


Edit 2: And there is this thing that allways cracks me up: why can a Doc player use Mario pretty well and most of the mario players cant actually use Doc? guys its just a lil slow but its more powerful, he also have more priority against the other characters, and u can do everything u do with mario except for a couple of things (recovery, range)

 

[Fogo]

lol they just hit ppl from far away dude, what if ur opponent is near u??

ANYTHING you can do with pills i can do better with fireballs.


and i'm completely sure of that.



fireballs(used correctly)>>>>pills


plus gimpy's tottally right, you cant fireball spike with pills at all

 

[LuigiMax]

fireballs(used correctly)>>>>pills

Fireballs used correctly owns pills??? LOL!!!! dude fireballs no matter how u throw them they just do the same thing, go forward.... u can do LOTS!! of variety of stuff with pills

ANYTHING you can do with pills i can do better with fireballs.


and i'm completely sure of that.

U really sure of that?? i would like to see a fireball doing the same stuff pills do... If u full jump pill, the pills go down covering the ground approach until u fall back, and if u short hop pill or just pill, then the pills will go forward covering u from ground attacks or approach forcing the opponent to go air. If u throw pills to a platform then the pill will bounce up. IF u full Jump pill forward, the pill will fall straight forward, and if u full jump pill backwards, the pill will go forward. If u full jump fireball, they go forward, and if u short hop fireball or just fireball, the fireball will still go forward, and if u throw a fireball to a platform, the fireball will gi forward. IF u full Jump fireball forward, the fireball will go forward, and if u full jump fireball backwards, the fireball will still go forward dude ... Pills = Variation, fireballs = same dang thing

 

[Fogo]

you can do the same with fireballs, but better.




:-P


lol k im done, this is useless, they tie in every aspect except for power and distance.


it's just a matter of preference.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

when dealing two different characteristics for similar moves one has to be better than the other, it can't possibly have anything to do with "preference"

which can be used most effectively in more/the most useful situations?

 

[Fogo]

when dealing two different characteristics for similar moves one has to be better than the other, it can't possibly have anything to do with "preference"

which can be used most effectively in more/the most useful situations?

True, well when you state it like that i still stand by my original statement, fireballs are better than pills.

i find it rather easy to get inside of a doc's pill spamming, whereas i find trouble getting past fireballs.

fireballs also have more combo potential when it comes to wall bouncing.

agreed?

 

[Winston]

when dealing two different characteristics for similar moves one has to be better than the other, it can't possibly have anything to do with "preference"

which can be used most effectively in more/the most useful situations?

True in theory, but when the difference is so small, perhaps one is better for a certain playstyle and one is better for another.

 

[LuigiMax]

i find it rather easy to get inside of a doc's pill spamming, whereas i find trouble getting past fireballs.

I agree on this in some sort of way : Its easy to get inside of doc's spamming ONLY when u are far enough, cause if u find urself with a good pill spammer then trust me ... U'll hate him for sure. lol! And fireballs are troublesome if ur opponent is far away from u as well. So in other words, they are both annoying LOL!

fireballs also have more combo potential when it comes to wall bouncing.

agreed?

Agreed lol

 

[Eggz]

Edit 2: And there is this thing that allways cracks me up: why can a Doc player use Mario pretty well and most of the mario players cant actually use Doc? guys its just a lil slow but its more powerful, he also have more priority against the other characters, and u can do everything u do with mario except for a couple of things (recovery, range)

The things that Mario players rely on, Doc has balls versions of. Mario's utilt is a REALLY good move, while docs is worthless ****. Same with docs uair.

I'd like to see a doc player do anything cool with pills. LoL all they do is try to camp and fail because it doesnt work.

 

[Fogo]

The things that Mario players rely on, Doc has balls versions of. Mario's utilt is a REALLY good move, while docs is worthless ****. Same with docs uair.

I'd like to see a doc player do anything cool with pills. LoL all they do is try to camp and fail because it doesnt work.

****.

in the form of truth lol

 

[Dogysamich]

I dont know why i keep coming back to this topic. Maybe im trying to develop some trolling skills? XD

The things that Mario players rely on, Doc has balls versions of. Mario's utilt is a REALLY good move, while docs is worthless ****. Same with docs uair.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on the uptilt, that's one of my big reasons why i say doc = mario, but the u.air? Lol.

What the **** do you do with an u.air that's a few frames faster? OH I KNOW, NOTHING.

What, so you can juggle somebody better? How bout you KILL THEM. OH WAIT, YOUR F.AIR BLOWS.

Good luck catching somebody Diing INTO your f.smash, i mean with all the marth's and kencombos out there; its not like people DONT KNOW HOW TO DI AWAY FROM THE COMBO. XD XD

i dunno.

I seriously want to argue over who has the better tornado now.

I'd like to see a doc player do anything cool with pills. LoL all they do is try to camp and fail because it doesnt work.

Mario apparently cant do any better CAUSE YOU WENT TO FOX LAWL!

 

[LuigiMax]

Mario apparently cant do any better CAUSE YOU WENT TO FOX LAWL!

Sooooo true ...

And in terms of tournament discussion, Most of the players actually prefer Doctor Mario as well, Since with mario u can only attack from long range thanks to the fireball or Fsmash, but having a "faster" UpAir juggles?... ppl whats the point of considering Mario's up air to be better than Doc if u cant actually do anything else after that?? ur Fair blows cause even when using it outside of the stage ppl can meteor cancel Easily!, u cant Upair to Fsmash everytime since ppl can DI away, so in other words.... where are the kills???? Almost every attack Doc has is killer move, plus Up air to Fair OWNS!!, plus Doc's Upair to Dsmash have better killing chances than Mario's so u dont actually need to edgeguard everytime.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

The speed actually wasn't my point at all. The hitstun for Mario's isn't worthless. You have to do it like frame perfect to even combo Ganon. DI doesn't affect me comboing, I can still techchase. Plus I've got DI mindgames. ^_^ If Silent Wolf and Ka Master still occasionally fall for my uairs, then im sure others will. Most people expect a killing move from good marios out of say uthrow or dthrow. When you uair, they will be DIing in. Then after that they're like crap hes tryin to combo me, and will DI away. Then you fsmash them and they're dead. LOL
obviously just what happens occasionally, but i don't see Doc finishing uair combos, or any combos for that matter.

Doc's fair is garbage. I get hit at like 120% with that and still live, only to recover high into the middle of the stage. Mario's fair sets up for combos at ANY percent, and has little enough lag to retreat if it misses. Mario forward and downsmash have lowish trajectories that make your opponent have to recover, which allows you to take advantage of your **** edgeguarding. Doc has like no setups for edgeguarding except crouch cancelling downsmashes.

~Eggz

 

[Eggz]

The hitstun for Mario's isn't worthless. You have to do it like frame perfect to even combo Ganon.

I mistyped it, thats supposed to say "The hitstun for Mario's uair, unlike doc's, isn't worthless. You have to do Doc's like frame perfect to combo ANYONE, even if they don't DI properly, and the effective percentage of functionality is a lot less useful.

 

[Fogo]

once again, ****.

 

[iMichael]

My avatar is gangsta....thought I'd say that.

 

[felix45]

ask any jigglypuff user. pills > fireballs

fireballs are incredibly easy to dodge. jumping isn't hard to do, and it isn't hard to try and mindgame a mario to do something after you jump. like you could double jump then punish him if he goes after you, and if he doesn't you can just fall backwards and wait for another opening. hell half the time you can short hop over fireballs and dodge them.

also you cant approach w/ fireballs like doc can with pills. it just isn't as safe with mario.

also doc can use his pills as he is recovering from above to **** over his opponent much easier than mario can. mario gets like one shot and all it takes is a normal getup animation followed by a dsmash to punish an upb that wasn't sweetspotted and mario is gone.


really pills are better in every way possible. hell pills are half the reason people choose doc over mario. (other half being kill moves)

 

[Fogo]

ask any jigglypuff user. pills > fireballs

fireballs are incredibly easy to dodge. jumping isn't hard to do, and it isn't hard to try and mindgame a mario to do something after you jump. like you could double jump then punish him if he goes after you, and if he doesn't you can just fall backwards and wait for another opening. hell half the time you can short hop over fireballs and dodge them.

also you cant approach w/ fireballs like doc can with pills. it just isn't as safe with mario.

also doc can use his pills as he is recovering from above to **** over his opponent much easier than mario can. mario gets like one shot and all it takes is a normal getup animation followed by a dsmash to punish an upb that wasn't sweetspotted and mario is gone.


really pills are better in every way possible. hell pills are half the reason people choose doc over mario. (other half being kill moves)

You see here is your problem, "it isn't hard to try and mindgame a mario." that statement alone shows that you havent played any good marios, because a character choice has nothing to do with how well you can mindgame some one.


mario can do everything doc has over him if you replace the moves with others, it's really not that hard, plus he's faster, and speed always beats power.

 

[d2Law89]

Fireballs are better for camping seeing as how you'd be able to roast marshmallows with them.

ROFL. That just made my life.

 

[Dogysamich]

Ya know, at first i said this was just a stupid pointless topic. But people actually keep saying stuff to make this a good fresh debate. :-D

​

ask any jigglypuff user. pills > fireballs

You live in the south. Ask any FL Jigglypuff player. I bet you they say Greenmario's Fireballs are just as hard to dodge as $mashmac's.

Hell, ill give you a closer boundary. Ask Louisiana players. I bet you they say Lee's Fireballs are as hard to dodge as Cyphus'.

mario can do everything doc has over him if you replace the moves with others, it's really not that hard, plus he's faster, and speed always beats power.

(I still hate how the term mindgame gets used in this community. Now we mindgame characters lol. Jwong would shoot us).

Mario Can do everything Doc can do. If that is true, then the inverse is true, which DISCREDITS EGGZ original statement... (keep reading)

But the problem is, Mario DOESNT do everything Doc does with pills, and vice versa. Because they dont have to.

Eggz said (im too lazy to go this post) "I dont see doc's doing kool tricks like wavelanding pills" - ***** CAUSE WE DONT HAVE TO. OUR **** BOUNCES HIGH ENOUGH. We fastfall behind out pills like the fat doctors we are (or i do, atleast). Whereas Mario's have to waveland behind theres because they're farther out.

So can both of them do the exact same things? Yes they can, hell, i can prove it to you once again that they can.

Mario

-------------------------------------

Jump: airborne on frame 5

Air time: 52
Earliest FF: 27
FF air time: 40

SH air time: 32
Earliest FF: 17
SH FF air time: 22

2nd jump earliest FF: 26
-------------------------------------
Fireball

Total: 43
Fireball comes out: 14
Fireball lasts: 75 frames
fastfall anytime

Doctor Mario

-------------------------------------

Jump: airborne on frame 5

Air time: 52
Earliest FF: 27
FF air time: 40

SH air time: 32
Earliest FF: 17
SH FF air time: 22

2nd jump earliest FF: 26

-------------------------------------
Pill

Total: 43
Pill comes out: 14
Pill lasts: 75 frames
Fastfall any time

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/frames.html

Running Speed



a ">" means that the character to the left of the ">" ACCELERATES
to his/her top speed QUICKER than the character to the right of the
">"



a "=" means the two or three characters between the "=" have the same exact acceleration.



Note: Acceleration was measured with the BUNNY HOOD on, no matter how
small and impossible-to-tell the difference (as long as one of my 10000
tests showed a difference than I put the difference down in this list)



1) Captain Falcon

2) Fox

3-5) Sheik > Pikachu > Marth

6) Pichu

7-10) Young Link > Roy > Yoshi > DK

11-15) Falco > Dr. Mario = Mario > Mr. Game & Watch > Bowser

16-20) Samus > Kirby = Mewtwo > Ice Climbers > Ness

21) Ganondorf

22) Luigi

23-24) Link > Peach

25-26) Jigglypuff > Zelda

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=30064

So yes. Both characters have the exact same frames for the actual projectile move. The jump. And their runs.

They move as fast as each other, both on the ground and starting their jumps, and they throw their projectiles as fast as each other.

HOW THE HELL CAN MARIO THROW HIS FIREBALL FASTER THAN DOC?

__

And last thing.

Speed always better than power? XD

If this wasnt a mario/doc thread, i'd blast that statement wide open. Cause the way tiers are set up, speed is not always better than power.

 

[otg]

I love you Dogy

 

[TheJalapeno]

Hah, thread killer

 

[Layupfreak]

Yep i agree eggs 100%

 

[Eggz]

Ya know, at first i said this was just a stupid pointless topic. But people actually keep saying stuff to make this a good fresh debate. :-D

​

You live in the south. Ask any FL Jigglypuff player. I bet you they say Greenmario's Fireballs are just as hard to dodge as $mashmac's.

Hell, ill give you a closer boundary. Ask Louisiana players. I bet you they say Lee's Fireballs are as hard to dodge as Cyphus'.




(I still hate how the term mindgame gets used in this community. Now we mindgame characters lol. Jwong would shoot us).

Mario Can do everything Doc can do. If that is true, then the inverse is true, which DISCREDITS EGGZ original statement... (keep reading)

But the problem is, Mario DOESNT do everything Doc does with pills, and vice versa. Because they dont have to.

Eggz said (im too lazy to go this post) "I dont see doc's doing kool tricks like wavelanding pills" - ***** CAUSE WE DONT HAVE TO. OUR **** BOUNCES HIGH ENOUGH. We fastfall behind out pills like the fat doctors we are (or i do, atleast). Whereas Mario's have to waveland behind theres because they're farther out.

So can both of them do the exact same things? Yes they can, hell, i can prove it to you once again that they can.





http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/frames.html


http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=30064

So yes. Both characters have the exact same frames for the actual projectile move. The jump. And their runs.

They move as fast as each other, both on the ground and starting their jumps, and they throw their projectiles as fast as each other.

HOW THE HELL CAN MARIO THROW HIS FIREBALL FASTER THAN DOC?

__

And last thing.

Speed always better than power? XD

If this wasnt a mario/doc thread, i'd blast that statement wide open. Cause the way tiers are set up, speed is not always better than power.

****.

i got nothin. LOL

im maining mario again. fox makes me hate the game.

 

[Dogysamich]

/me calls in party favors for the celebration!!

Still a fun/informative debate nonetheless.

_

I will agree that fireballs are better than pills in one department. Camping (for marshmellows XD)

-

 

[TheJalapeno]

Alright Eggz! Sticking to his Mario!

Spoiler

How the hell do you pull off those awesome UAIR chains?

 

[Ronin686]

Why the hell do people find uairs difficult?

 

[Gimpyfish62]

because its more technical than they expect it should be