Intro
While playing Sonic, ever been positively sure that your next smash was going to kill just to find out that you didn't damage your opponent enough or been left wondering how you could possibly get your b-air to hit that guy for ONE last time? Well, this thread might just be useful for you!
I've taken an recent interest in playing Sonic, and noticed that alot of his moves, combos, and their usefulness in setting people up or knocking them to their deaths changes at different percents. This thread will (hopefully) become a collection of useful moves and setups that are effective at killing and at what percents they're most effective.
They don't have to be inescapable, but a chain of attacks that can kill from a certain % is good enough. Awareness of the options and potential finishers is what I'm going for.
The big focus here is this: These setups' effectiveness have limits- and the main limiters are weight and damage. A bit too much damage and your setup will fail, not enough damage, and you might end up suiciding, etc. These options can give you an idea of what and when things will work.
--------------------
Table of contents
--------------------
-Weight and Adapting to it
-Basic kill move/information Updated: 8/13!!!
-Kill movestrings/setups
- - [Under 100%]
- - - Off-platform F-air death: 30-70%
- - - Off-platform gimp: Homing Attack: 40%+
- - - Over-level KO: Spindash U-air Barrage: 50-70%
- - - ASC Combo/Over-Level KO/U-air Combo: 65-90% [Added 6/27]
- - - ASD Combo/Over-Level KO/U-air Combo: 70-120% [Updated 6/27]
- - - Off-platform KO/ASC Combo/Homing Attack gimp: 90-110% [Added 6/27]
- - - Off-platform gimp: Spring gimp / Spring Stage Spike [updated 6/27]
- - [Over 100%]
- - - Spin-dash Combo/Over-Level KO/B-air setup: 95-110% [Updated 6/27]
- - - Over-level KO/U-air setup: 95%*-130% [best at 105-115%] [Updated 6/27]
- - - Over-level KO/B-air setup: 110-115%
- - - Spin-dash combo/B-air setup: 115-125%
- - - Over-level KO/F-throw/D-air setup: 170%+
- - [Spring setups]
- - - (vs Air) Landing setup
- - - Throw setup
- - - Dash Attack setup [Added 6/27]
Weight and Adapting to it still under revisions
Most of these setups will require your opponent to be at a certain %. Of course, 100% on a Mario isn't the same as 100% on a Bowser, so you have to adjust the requirements based on character weight. These are decent estimations of how much to add/subtract from the requirements, so you have an idea of when certain moves will or will not work. Some characters have better horizontal DI than others, making them seem heavier when being launched sideways, and they will be noted here.
[-20%] Lightweight*: Jigglypuff(-25%)/Game&Watch/Metaknight/Kirby...
[-10%] Lower-middleweight : Pikachu/Ness/Lucas/Falco/Fox...
[+0%] Middleweight : Sonic(+5%)/ZSS/Samus*/Link/Marth/Mario*/Luigi*/Wario*...
[+10%] Upper-Middleweight : Wolf/Ganondorf/Snake(+15%)/Ike(+15%)/Yoshi/(+15%)...
[+20%] Heavyweight : Dedede*/DK/Bowser...
etc.
*Exceptions due to abnormal DI
-Jigglypuff has amazing horizontal aerial control. For vertical moves, treat her like she's 20-25% lighter, but for horizontal moves, treat her 10% lighter.
-Metaknight, Kirby, and Game&Watch are vertically treated 15% lighter, but horizontally treated 0-5% lighter (G&W lightest of them)
-Mario is treated 10% lighter vertically, but 10% heavier horizontally.
-Luigi is treated 5% lighter vertically and 5% heavier horizontally.
-Wario is treated middleweight vertically, but for horizontal KOs, treat him 10% heavier.
-Samus is treated 15% heavier on horizontal moves.
-Dedede is treated 25% heavier vertically, but only 10% heavier horizontally!
Basic kill move/information
Unless otherwise stated, from the center of Final Destination, with no stale-move effect, no attack-charging:
Damage is first given without DI, and with best possible DI.
Fsmash : 110% [135% with up-towards DI]
Dsmash (first hit): 120% [145% with up-towards DI]
Usmash (last hit): 170% [200% with sideways DI]
U-tilt (full triple hit): 155% [190% with down-away DI] (for star KO. It can kill off the sides at lower %'s if you're closer to the edges)
B-air: 125% (sweet spot) [155% with up-towards DI] (can star KO lower if U-DI'd in midair)
U-throw (FD height): 195% [215% with down+towards DI]
U-airs are all double hits (first+second)
U-air from full hop: 170% [190% with down+away DI]
U-air from double jump: 150% [170% with down+away DI]
U-air from top of level (double jump + spring): 90% [110% with down+away DI]
Forward ASC [ground level]: 170% [215% with down+away DI]
Further modifiers for vertical kills/star KO's: For each "Jump" worth of height, subtract 20% from the kill%, similar to the U-air info.
From the edge of Final Destination:
B-air sourspot: 140% [190% with up+towards DI]
D-air sweetspot(Aerial): 140% [210% with up+towards DI]
B-throw: 165% [215% with up+towards DI]
F-air (Final hit/"head" sweet spot): 125% (sweetspot) [200% with up+towards DI]
N-air: 130% (sweetspot vs aerial opponent) [180% with up+towards DI]
Homing Attack (person standing on edge): 170-180% [215% with up+towards DI]
Note: if you hit the person with the initial hop into u-smash, it adds alot of extra knockback so that the opponent can get launched out of the u-smash at weird angles. For damage or to do the u-smash kill, hyphen smash or time it so you avoid the first hit.
Gimp tip: Hitting with Homing Attack
If you are lower than your target, Homing Attack will move upwards and hit the person so they fly in a forward trajectory (direction you are facing).
If you are higher than your target, Homing Attack will move upwards and tend to hit the person so they fly toward you (direction you are coming from).
So if you want to hit someone forward with a HA gimp, try fastfalling first.
-----------------------------------------
And now for the moves and setups.
-----------------------------------------
-Under 100%
-Over 100%
-Spring Setups
Red: Lethal, hard to miss or hard for opponent to escape
Orange: Generally lethal, but requires a bit of mind gaming or luck
Yellow: Fairly easily predicted, dodged, DI'd or avoided, but lethal if it connects
Blue: Very situational
[]: This denotes a 'weak spot' or where your opponent can move/DI/break the combo if he's attentive.
[Under 100%:]
Off-platform F-air death: 30-70% (best at around 40-60%)
B-throw>F-air> double-jump []> F-air
[]If damage is too low or too high from the critical percents, either the hitstun will be too low or it will take you too long to catch up, so the opponent can double jump or attack. The good news is, if he double jumps, you can switch to homing attack instead of F-air, mixing it with the next move.
The optimal placement for this move is if your opponent is above stage level, in range of your first jump - that way, you can still make it back with a spring. IMO, the best time to use it is after your opponent uses a double jump and is trying to recover, and they usually double jump after a B-throw.
Assuming that your opponent is within that %, if you can hit your opponent on your way up/near the top of your first jump, you should be able to hit the 2nd jump fine.
F-AIR TIP: Your opponent can possibly DI through your f-air so they get launched from the back. You can avoid this by simply using F-air a little earlier. As long as the final hit knocks them, the setup will still be fine.
Off-platform gimp: Homing attack: 40%+ (best at around 40-80%)
F-throw>F-air> [] Homing Attack
[] Opponent must use double jump, or else this fails, but at least it leaves your recovery fine.
Most people do not double jump after F-throw because it simply doesn't have alot of horizontal knockback. They usually will double jump after an F-air though, so if you don't cancel the homing attack, chances are that your opponent will get hit by your homing attack right after he double jumps. Of course, since it incorporates homing attack, it's more likely to fail than the other combo, but it also leaves a double-jump free for use.
RECOVERY TIP: If you tap the direction towards the stage, let go, then press B, you will go in a 45 degree angle towards the stage instead of away from it if you miss. There's no difference if your opponent is in range though.
Over-level KO: Spindash U-air barrage: 50-70%[!!] [Added 4/26]
Spin-dash (hit) > Immediate U-air > [] double jump U-air > Spring [] > U-air
[] 1: If they airdodge immediately, you can still catch them with the second half of the u-air and continue the combo(!!)
[] 2: Same problem with most Spring finishers: they can airdodge as soon as they see spring, making you miss your u-air.
This one has an added risk, since it happens at such a high point- characters with moves that knock you upwards can reverse this setup and kill you, too!
Thanks to IvoYaridovich for pointing this risk out
*You can also delay after the 2nd U-air to move to the side and setup for a B-air instead. It's generally safer.
Wow. Just wow.
I really didn't think there would be another string that could kill if successfully pulled off from under 100%, but here it is! It works best if you go straight into u-air from the spindash hit - the spindash jump attack tends to send people flying too far away to be pulled by u-air. Very nice. The second U-air takes your target to the top of the screen, and your spring U-air knocks them off the level. Epic placement.
Thanks to Badakin for bringing it up!
ASC Combo/Over-Level KO/U-air Combo: 65-90% (best at around 70-85%) [Added 6/27]
ASC [first hit] > U-air > Spring [] > U-air
[] Opponent can airdodge after the second U-air, but provided that you do this right, airdodging is all they can do about it.
You can actually kill with this at a lower % if your opponent is already in the air and you catch him with an ASC. The awesome thing about this move is that it registers as a true combo! If you do it from 70-85%, it will register as a true combo and set up the heights perfectly. Higher %'s will still work, but eventually the first hit of the second U-air will not connect, so your opponent will be out of hitstun and be able to attack you by the time you use the spring.
U-air Timing tip: Try to do the U-air as soon as you see the ASC hit! If your opponent is in front of you and you catch him with the upper-front of the U-air, it will set up perfectly for the second U-air! Doing the first U-air too late will result in your opponent being sent a bit behind you!
ASD Combo/Over-Level KO/U-air Combo: 70-120% (best at around 75-95%) [Updated 6/27]
Side B hop [hit] > U-air > (can delay) Spring [] > U-air
[] Same deal as previous combo :D
Side-B's hop does a constant, low amount of damage, but it's balanced out by invincibility frames during the initial release (3-5 frames, I guess?). From 70-95%, this registers as a true combo. Again, it can kill at lower %'s, but it depends on your opponent's height and where the KO ceiling is. 100%-120%, you can use it as a juggle or substitute in a B-air, as seen later on.
Off-platform KO/ASC Combo/Homing Attack gimp: 90-110% [Added 6/27]
ASC > jump+(fast) Homing attack []
[] Can be airdodged, and depending on DI, Homing Attack can miss.
This is an interesting move, done by SonicOrochi in his tutorial video at around 9:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QMRTsGfy0c&feature=related
Something cool to note is that ASC has high hitstun, so if you do a quick homing attack, it will still count as a true combo.
Off-platform gimp: Spring Gimp/ Spring Stage Spike: any %+ (140%+ for stage spike of death) [Updated 6/27]
Setup 1:
(D-throw/Opponent is under platform height)> Jump off edge > [] Spring
[] Dropping a slow moving projectile ==> easy to dodge.
Depending on the kind of recovery, this can be used in different ways:
VS limited-reach recoveries, like Fox/Falco's up-B's, you can drop a spring to send them sliiightly further away from the level.
VS Ness and Lucas, you can drop the spring so it hits their PK thunder, or you can drop it in front of them, and as we know, if PKT2 hits something, it slows down considerably.
VS Floating recoveries, like Pit and ROB, you can wear out their jumps/fuel/float with multiple spring drops.
VS Limited horizontal recoveries, like Ike or Samus up-B's, you can drop a spring on the outside, knocking them under the level.
Setup 2:
(While next to your opponent [ledge, tether, under stage... etc])>[] Spring
[] Needless to say, being next to your opponent is risky, but you CAN find situations to 'pin' them, where if they attack you, they will gimp themselves
The stage spike, or any other spring projectile-related kills are dependent on the spring's placement relative to your opponent. So if your opponent thinks it's a good idea to hang around on the ledge to try to avoid the slow-moving spring, and the invincibility frames run out as the spring is slightly UNDER your opponent, it will result in a nasty stage spike. You can also run and drop down slightly, THEN use the spring to stage spike. Pretty nice, especially if your opponent has a nasty habit of dropping down and double jumping to do an anti-edgeguard attack.
[Over 100%]
Spin-dash Combo/Over-Level KO/B-air setup: 95-110% [updated 6/27]
Side B hop/ASC [first hit] > U-air > (delay) Spring [] > B-air
[] Usual 'predictability' when springs come out, but you can use a bit of delay to either see if he double jumps or to place yourself on the opposite side. Just watch out for aggressive opponents that will attack you and make this backfire.
It's alot simpler and easier to land than the ground-based spin-dash move strings, and IMO, it's alot more reliable :D
Over-level KO/U-air setup: 95%*-130% [best at 105-115%] [Updated 6/27]
U-throw > Move under opponent > Spring [] > U-air
[] As with all throw-based setups, your opponent can DI away from this, making you have to chase, and buying him time out of the hitstun.
*On final destination, this works at 105%, but it can be lower for stages with lower ceilings.
Given that your opponent does not DI out of this, it will register as a true combo, and the only thing your opponent can do out of it is airdodge.
Over-level KO/B-air setup: 110-115% (If it's higher, you can delay the spring instead of using it right away)
U-throw>Spring [] > B-air
[] Opponent can still DI/dodge, but if you can predict their movement, you can try the u-throw setup again a second time, and the extra height from the throw will buy you time to run under and spring again :D Again, if you delay this at all, watch out for counterattacks.
If you grab starting at this % range and spring immediately after the throw, your height will be perfect for a B-air to land. Remember to move in closer to get best knockback from B-air. This also registers as a natural/true combo. Note that this does work up to about 10% less than the recorded %, but it won't necessarily kill, unless you're killing off the edge.
NOTE: Assuming that your opponent doesn't DI, this actually registers as a true combo!
Spin-dash combo/B-air setup: 115-125% [Added 4/22]
Spin-dash [hit]> Immediate U-air > Up-B [] > B-air
[] There's a small window where your opponent can DI/Dodge after you hit the U-air.
This is an interesting alternative I saw in lucky vs danimals R1 from 2:26-2:33. It's not as easy to predict and DI as the throw setup. Props to Lucky for being awesome like that.
NOTE: If you can see your enemy DI forward, you can do a diagonal-back spring to do something similar to a RAR so you can B-air 'forwards'
Over-level KO/F-throw/D-air setup: 160%+
F-throw> [] Spring > D-air (non sweetspot)
[] After your F-throw, your opponent must DI toward you for the placement to be right. Throwing them towards the edge (but don't move yourself too close to it) can help.
At the height that this happens (around double-jump height?), D-air will launch them vertically off the ceiling. Flashy move, but it's different, so it can catch someone off guard.
[Spring setups]
Generally ~110-120%+ to kill with U/B-air, F-air depends on distance to edge.
Unlike U-throw or the other moves where height changes depending on damage, the spring sends everyone the same height, so become acquainted with the height so you can catch them with aerial attacks after they get launched.
(vs Air) Landing setup: (100-130% for U-air/B-air kill) [Updated 5/09]
(Ground) Use spring under an opponent about to land > [] Aerial
[] Difficulty to position aside, your opponent can attack as soon as he bounces. This is only good against unawares.
If your opponent is spamming a SH move (eg, Ganon's thunder stomp, Ike's N-air, or some kind of slow meteor-attack type move from a recovery), place a spring under them and the spring will cancel their move and send them flying up next to/under you (depending on how early you use it). If you use it early, you can mindgame your opponent into using the spring and if they chase after you, retaliate with B-air.
[update]
Sonic has dodge/invincibility frames from the moment that he jumps (but not while he's spawning spring/standing on it), to about a little higher than full-hop height. You can use this information to your advantage and use this move to counter fast-falling moves like:
Dedede Up-B, Bowser/Yoshi Down-B, Toon Link/G&W/Ice Climber D-air, Sonic/Sheik/ZSS D-air, Falcon Kick/Wizard's foot... etc.
Throw setup: [Added 4/22]
(Spring must be set up on the floor already) > D-throw opponent toward spring > [] Position+ Up-B to intercept
[] Like other moves involving Spring under them, your opponent can react to your spring and dodge.
Note: Springs last for 4 seconds, so you might want to D-air lagcancel and catch your opponent quick if you wanna get it to work. Very mindgame-y.
SonicLucario's Sonic Rush Trailer has this setup and you can see what he does with it from 00:08-00:17.
Dash Attack setup: [Added 6/27]
Early dash attack (hit with the end)[] > Spring > aerial
[] Certain characters can hit you after the dash attack, before the spring comes out, but if you catch someone with this, chances are that they will be attacking in the wrong direction when the spring comes out.
Thanks to Anthinus for doing this combo and having it in his combo video (1:12) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4GGuRDQShw
and to KayJay for bringing it up :D
--------------------
Additions/feedback welcome.
._.; well, at the least more Sonic players can have some options and hopefully can build off from them.
--------------------
[PENDING ADDITIONS]
U-throw > u-air > u-air > Spring > u-air
--Also have to figure out which percent this works with.
:D thanks
While playing Sonic, ever been positively sure that your next smash was going to kill just to find out that you didn't damage your opponent enough or been left wondering how you could possibly get your b-air to hit that guy for ONE last time? Well, this thread might just be useful for you!
I've taken an recent interest in playing Sonic, and noticed that alot of his moves, combos, and their usefulness in setting people up or knocking them to their deaths changes at different percents. This thread will (hopefully) become a collection of useful moves and setups that are effective at killing and at what percents they're most effective.
They don't have to be inescapable, but a chain of attacks that can kill from a certain % is good enough. Awareness of the options and potential finishers is what I'm going for.
The big focus here is this: These setups' effectiveness have limits- and the main limiters are weight and damage. A bit too much damage and your setup will fail, not enough damage, and you might end up suiciding, etc. These options can give you an idea of what and when things will work.
--------------------
Table of contents
--------------------
-Weight and Adapting to it
-Basic kill move/information Updated: 8/13!!!
-Kill movestrings/setups
- - [Under 100%]
- - - Off-platform F-air death: 30-70%
- - - Off-platform gimp: Homing Attack: 40%+
- - - Over-level KO: Spindash U-air Barrage: 50-70%
- - - ASC Combo/Over-Level KO/U-air Combo: 65-90% [Added 6/27]
- - - ASD Combo/Over-Level KO/U-air Combo: 70-120% [Updated 6/27]
- - - Off-platform KO/ASC Combo/Homing Attack gimp: 90-110% [Added 6/27]
- - - Off-platform gimp: Spring gimp / Spring Stage Spike [updated 6/27]
- - [Over 100%]
- - - Spin-dash Combo/Over-Level KO/B-air setup: 95-110% [Updated 6/27]
- - - Over-level KO/U-air setup: 95%*-130% [best at 105-115%] [Updated 6/27]
- - - Over-level KO/B-air setup: 110-115%
- - - Spin-dash combo/B-air setup: 115-125%
- - - Over-level KO/F-throw/D-air setup: 170%+
- - [Spring setups]
- - - (vs Air) Landing setup
- - - Throw setup
- - - Dash Attack setup [Added 6/27]
Weight and Adapting to it still under revisions
Most of these setups will require your opponent to be at a certain %. Of course, 100% on a Mario isn't the same as 100% on a Bowser, so you have to adjust the requirements based on character weight. These are decent estimations of how much to add/subtract from the requirements, so you have an idea of when certain moves will or will not work. Some characters have better horizontal DI than others, making them seem heavier when being launched sideways, and they will be noted here.
[-20%] Lightweight*: Jigglypuff(-25%)/Game&Watch/Metaknight/Kirby...
[-10%] Lower-middleweight : Pikachu/Ness/Lucas/Falco/Fox...
[+0%] Middleweight : Sonic(+5%)/ZSS/Samus*/Link/Marth/Mario*/Luigi*/Wario*...
[+10%] Upper-Middleweight : Wolf/Ganondorf/Snake(+15%)/Ike(+15%)/Yoshi/(+15%)...
[+20%] Heavyweight : Dedede*/DK/Bowser...
etc.
*Exceptions due to abnormal DI
-Jigglypuff has amazing horizontal aerial control. For vertical moves, treat her like she's 20-25% lighter, but for horizontal moves, treat her 10% lighter.
-Metaknight, Kirby, and Game&Watch are vertically treated 15% lighter, but horizontally treated 0-5% lighter (G&W lightest of them)
-Mario is treated 10% lighter vertically, but 10% heavier horizontally.
-Luigi is treated 5% lighter vertically and 5% heavier horizontally.
-Wario is treated middleweight vertically, but for horizontal KOs, treat him 10% heavier.
-Samus is treated 15% heavier on horizontal moves.
-Dedede is treated 25% heavier vertically, but only 10% heavier horizontally!
Basic kill move/information
Unless otherwise stated, from the center of Final Destination, with no stale-move effect, no attack-charging:
Damage is first given without DI, and with best possible DI.
Fsmash : 110% [135% with up-towards DI]
Dsmash (first hit): 120% [145% with up-towards DI]
Usmash (last hit): 170% [200% with sideways DI]
U-tilt (full triple hit): 155% [190% with down-away DI] (for star KO. It can kill off the sides at lower %'s if you're closer to the edges)
B-air: 125% (sweet spot) [155% with up-towards DI] (can star KO lower if U-DI'd in midair)
U-throw (FD height): 195% [215% with down+towards DI]
U-airs are all double hits (first+second)
U-air from full hop: 170% [190% with down+away DI]
U-air from double jump: 150% [170% with down+away DI]
U-air from top of level (double jump + spring): 90% [110% with down+away DI]
Forward ASC [ground level]: 170% [215% with down+away DI]
Further modifiers for vertical kills/star KO's: For each "Jump" worth of height, subtract 20% from the kill%, similar to the U-air info.
From the edge of Final Destination:
B-air sourspot: 140% [190% with up+towards DI]
D-air sweetspot(Aerial): 140% [210% with up+towards DI]
B-throw: 165% [215% with up+towards DI]
F-air (Final hit/"head" sweet spot): 125% (sweetspot) [200% with up+towards DI]
N-air: 130% (sweetspot vs aerial opponent) [180% with up+towards DI]
Homing Attack (person standing on edge): 170-180% [215% with up+towards DI]
Note: if you hit the person with the initial hop into u-smash, it adds alot of extra knockback so that the opponent can get launched out of the u-smash at weird angles. For damage or to do the u-smash kill, hyphen smash or time it so you avoid the first hit.
Gimp tip: Hitting with Homing Attack
If you are lower than your target, Homing Attack will move upwards and hit the person so they fly in a forward trajectory (direction you are facing).
If you are higher than your target, Homing Attack will move upwards and tend to hit the person so they fly toward you (direction you are coming from).
So if you want to hit someone forward with a HA gimp, try fastfalling first.
-----------------------------------------
And now for the moves and setups.
-----------------------------------------
-Under 100%
-Over 100%
-Spring Setups
Red: Lethal, hard to miss or hard for opponent to escape
Orange: Generally lethal, but requires a bit of mind gaming or luck
Yellow: Fairly easily predicted, dodged, DI'd or avoided, but lethal if it connects
Blue: Very situational
[]: This denotes a 'weak spot' or where your opponent can move/DI/break the combo if he's attentive.
[Under 100%:]
Off-platform F-air death: 30-70% (best at around 40-60%)
B-throw>F-air> double-jump []> F-air
[]If damage is too low or too high from the critical percents, either the hitstun will be too low or it will take you too long to catch up, so the opponent can double jump or attack. The good news is, if he double jumps, you can switch to homing attack instead of F-air, mixing it with the next move.
The optimal placement for this move is if your opponent is above stage level, in range of your first jump - that way, you can still make it back with a spring. IMO, the best time to use it is after your opponent uses a double jump and is trying to recover, and they usually double jump after a B-throw.
Assuming that your opponent is within that %, if you can hit your opponent on your way up/near the top of your first jump, you should be able to hit the 2nd jump fine.
F-AIR TIP: Your opponent can possibly DI through your f-air so they get launched from the back. You can avoid this by simply using F-air a little earlier. As long as the final hit knocks them, the setup will still be fine.
Off-platform gimp: Homing attack: 40%+ (best at around 40-80%)
F-throw>F-air> [] Homing Attack
[] Opponent must use double jump, or else this fails, but at least it leaves your recovery fine.
Most people do not double jump after F-throw because it simply doesn't have alot of horizontal knockback. They usually will double jump after an F-air though, so if you don't cancel the homing attack, chances are that your opponent will get hit by your homing attack right after he double jumps. Of course, since it incorporates homing attack, it's more likely to fail than the other combo, but it also leaves a double-jump free for use.
RECOVERY TIP: If you tap the direction towards the stage, let go, then press B, you will go in a 45 degree angle towards the stage instead of away from it if you miss. There's no difference if your opponent is in range though.
Over-level KO: Spindash U-air barrage: 50-70%[!!] [Added 4/26]
Spin-dash (hit) > Immediate U-air > [] double jump U-air > Spring [] > U-air
[] 1: If they airdodge immediately, you can still catch them with the second half of the u-air and continue the combo(!!)
[] 2: Same problem with most Spring finishers: they can airdodge as soon as they see spring, making you miss your u-air.
This one has an added risk, since it happens at such a high point- characters with moves that knock you upwards can reverse this setup and kill you, too!
Thanks to IvoYaridovich for pointing this risk out
*You can also delay after the 2nd U-air to move to the side and setup for a B-air instead. It's generally safer.
Wow. Just wow.
I really didn't think there would be another string that could kill if successfully pulled off from under 100%, but here it is! It works best if you go straight into u-air from the spindash hit - the spindash jump attack tends to send people flying too far away to be pulled by u-air. Very nice. The second U-air takes your target to the top of the screen, and your spring U-air knocks them off the level. Epic placement.
Thanks to Badakin for bringing it up!
ASC Combo/Over-Level KO/U-air Combo: 65-90% (best at around 70-85%) [Added 6/27]
ASC [first hit] > U-air > Spring [] > U-air
[] Opponent can airdodge after the second U-air, but provided that you do this right, airdodging is all they can do about it.
You can actually kill with this at a lower % if your opponent is already in the air and you catch him with an ASC. The awesome thing about this move is that it registers as a true combo! If you do it from 70-85%, it will register as a true combo and set up the heights perfectly. Higher %'s will still work, but eventually the first hit of the second U-air will not connect, so your opponent will be out of hitstun and be able to attack you by the time you use the spring.
U-air Timing tip: Try to do the U-air as soon as you see the ASC hit! If your opponent is in front of you and you catch him with the upper-front of the U-air, it will set up perfectly for the second U-air! Doing the first U-air too late will result in your opponent being sent a bit behind you!
ASD Combo/Over-Level KO/U-air Combo: 70-120% (best at around 75-95%) [Updated 6/27]
Side B hop [hit] > U-air > (can delay) Spring [] > U-air
[] Same deal as previous combo :D
Side-B's hop does a constant, low amount of damage, but it's balanced out by invincibility frames during the initial release (3-5 frames, I guess?). From 70-95%, this registers as a true combo. Again, it can kill at lower %'s, but it depends on your opponent's height and where the KO ceiling is. 100%-120%, you can use it as a juggle or substitute in a B-air, as seen later on.
Off-platform KO/ASC Combo/Homing Attack gimp: 90-110% [Added 6/27]
ASC > jump+(fast) Homing attack []
[] Can be airdodged, and depending on DI, Homing Attack can miss.
This is an interesting move, done by SonicOrochi in his tutorial video at around 9:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QMRTsGfy0c&feature=related
Something cool to note is that ASC has high hitstun, so if you do a quick homing attack, it will still count as a true combo.
Off-platform gimp: Spring Gimp/ Spring Stage Spike: any %+ (140%+ for stage spike of death) [Updated 6/27]
Setup 1:
(D-throw/Opponent is under platform height)> Jump off edge > [] Spring
[] Dropping a slow moving projectile ==> easy to dodge.
Depending on the kind of recovery, this can be used in different ways:
VS limited-reach recoveries, like Fox/Falco's up-B's, you can drop a spring to send them sliiightly further away from the level.
VS Ness and Lucas, you can drop the spring so it hits their PK thunder, or you can drop it in front of them, and as we know, if PKT2 hits something, it slows down considerably.
VS Floating recoveries, like Pit and ROB, you can wear out their jumps/fuel/float with multiple spring drops.
VS Limited horizontal recoveries, like Ike or Samus up-B's, you can drop a spring on the outside, knocking them under the level.
Setup 2:
(While next to your opponent [ledge, tether, under stage... etc])>[] Spring
[] Needless to say, being next to your opponent is risky, but you CAN find situations to 'pin' them, where if they attack you, they will gimp themselves
The stage spike, or any other spring projectile-related kills are dependent on the spring's placement relative to your opponent. So if your opponent thinks it's a good idea to hang around on the ledge to try to avoid the slow-moving spring, and the invincibility frames run out as the spring is slightly UNDER your opponent, it will result in a nasty stage spike. You can also run and drop down slightly, THEN use the spring to stage spike. Pretty nice, especially if your opponent has a nasty habit of dropping down and double jumping to do an anti-edgeguard attack.
[Over 100%]
Spin-dash Combo/Over-Level KO/B-air setup: 95-110% [updated 6/27]
Side B hop/ASC [first hit] > U-air > (delay) Spring [] > B-air
[] Usual 'predictability' when springs come out, but you can use a bit of delay to either see if he double jumps or to place yourself on the opposite side. Just watch out for aggressive opponents that will attack you and make this backfire.
It's alot simpler and easier to land than the ground-based spin-dash move strings, and IMO, it's alot more reliable :D
Over-level KO/U-air setup: 95%*-130% [best at 105-115%] [Updated 6/27]
U-throw > Move under opponent > Spring [] > U-air
[] As with all throw-based setups, your opponent can DI away from this, making you have to chase, and buying him time out of the hitstun.
*On final destination, this works at 105%, but it can be lower for stages with lower ceilings.
Given that your opponent does not DI out of this, it will register as a true combo, and the only thing your opponent can do out of it is airdodge.
Over-level KO/B-air setup: 110-115% (If it's higher, you can delay the spring instead of using it right away)
U-throw>Spring [] > B-air
[] Opponent can still DI/dodge, but if you can predict their movement, you can try the u-throw setup again a second time, and the extra height from the throw will buy you time to run under and spring again :D Again, if you delay this at all, watch out for counterattacks.
If you grab starting at this % range and spring immediately after the throw, your height will be perfect for a B-air to land. Remember to move in closer to get best knockback from B-air. This also registers as a natural/true combo. Note that this does work up to about 10% less than the recorded %, but it won't necessarily kill, unless you're killing off the edge.
NOTE: Assuming that your opponent doesn't DI, this actually registers as a true combo!
Spin-dash combo/B-air setup: 115-125% [Added 4/22]
Spin-dash [hit]> Immediate U-air > Up-B [] > B-air
[] There's a small window where your opponent can DI/Dodge after you hit the U-air.
This is an interesting alternative I saw in lucky vs danimals R1 from 2:26-2:33. It's not as easy to predict and DI as the throw setup. Props to Lucky for being awesome like that.
NOTE: If you can see your enemy DI forward, you can do a diagonal-back spring to do something similar to a RAR so you can B-air 'forwards'
Over-level KO/F-throw/D-air setup: 160%+
F-throw> [] Spring > D-air (non sweetspot)
[] After your F-throw, your opponent must DI toward you for the placement to be right. Throwing them towards the edge (but don't move yourself too close to it) can help.
At the height that this happens (around double-jump height?), D-air will launch them vertically off the ceiling. Flashy move, but it's different, so it can catch someone off guard.
[Spring setups]
Generally ~110-120%+ to kill with U/B-air, F-air depends on distance to edge.
Unlike U-throw or the other moves where height changes depending on damage, the spring sends everyone the same height, so become acquainted with the height so you can catch them with aerial attacks after they get launched.
(vs Air) Landing setup: (100-130% for U-air/B-air kill) [Updated 5/09]
(Ground) Use spring under an opponent about to land > [] Aerial
[] Difficulty to position aside, your opponent can attack as soon as he bounces. This is only good against unawares.
If your opponent is spamming a SH move (eg, Ganon's thunder stomp, Ike's N-air, or some kind of slow meteor-attack type move from a recovery), place a spring under them and the spring will cancel their move and send them flying up next to/under you (depending on how early you use it). If you use it early, you can mindgame your opponent into using the spring and if they chase after you, retaliate with B-air.
[update]
Sonic has dodge/invincibility frames from the moment that he jumps (but not while he's spawning spring/standing on it), to about a little higher than full-hop height. You can use this information to your advantage and use this move to counter fast-falling moves like:
Dedede Up-B, Bowser/Yoshi Down-B, Toon Link/G&W/Ice Climber D-air, Sonic/Sheik/ZSS D-air, Falcon Kick/Wizard's foot... etc.
Throw setup: [Added 4/22]
(Spring must be set up on the floor already) > D-throw opponent toward spring > [] Position+ Up-B to intercept
[] Like other moves involving Spring under them, your opponent can react to your spring and dodge.
Note: Springs last for 4 seconds, so you might want to D-air lagcancel and catch your opponent quick if you wanna get it to work. Very mindgame-y.
SonicLucario's Sonic Rush Trailer has this setup and you can see what he does with it from 00:08-00:17.
Dash Attack setup: [Added 6/27]
Early dash attack (hit with the end)[] > Spring > aerial
[] Certain characters can hit you after the dash attack, before the spring comes out, but if you catch someone with this, chances are that they will be attacking in the wrong direction when the spring comes out.
Thanks to Anthinus for doing this combo and having it in his combo video (1:12) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4GGuRDQShw
and to KayJay for bringing it up :D
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Additions/feedback welcome.
._.; well, at the least more Sonic players can have some options and hopefully can build off from them.
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[PENDING ADDITIONS]
U-throw > u-air > u-air > Spring > u-air
--Also have to figure out which percent this works with.
:D thanks