Final Smashes Tier List

[Sephirothxxx]

I like how much response this has gotten. Though I rarely play Brawl, I like how this list turned out. Make sure you keep it updated!

 

[phi1ny3]

Am I missing something with Oli's final smash? Unless you get grounded (which, with a bit of pro mashing, can be remedied), you can repeatedly spotdodge like 80% of the damage (at most you'll be taking 16% or so lol). It's definitely not that great, at least unless you can land the grounding first.

 

[Kyoshi]

I like how much response this has gotten. Though I rarely play Brawl, I like how this list turned out. Make sure you keep it updated!

Thanks for the encouragement! Will do!

Am I missing something with Oli's final smash? Unless you get grounded (which, with a bit of pro mashing, can be remedied), you can repeatedly spotdodge like 80% of the damage (at most you'll be taking 16% or so lol). It's definitely not that great, at least unless you can land the grounding first.

Yeah, I saw that recently. It's interesting. Olimar is good at getting final smashes, but not enough to make him top tier. Before I would move him, however, I do want to know if there are other thoughts on his final smash.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Characters such as Kirby, King Dedede, Meta Knight, R.O.B. and Snake can avoid most of the damage caused by the Bulborb using their jumps and up specials. Other characters can avoid taking full damage from the Bulborbs but constantly using the ground dodge. It is possible to avoid the Rocket itself by anticipating where Olimar will touch down. You can also avoid the Rocket by jumping off stage and stalling until the Rocket lands or you can plank using the invincibility frames to avoid the Rocket. However in terms to avoiding the entire Final Smash to avoid taking damage you'd need the assistance of the Star Man.

 

[L14T]

Luigi's smash should be place in a higher tier, Since the FS not only makes an aura that makes your foes sleep but if you B Up them it results in an instant KO, Idk if someone has already pointed this out.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Metaknight's FS is easily A tier at worst. He has no trouble setting up footstools, leading into it from almost any tech or get up, and generally has an easy time landing the move. In addition, the mere threat of his Final Smash is enough to keep opponents at bay and make his moves generally safer. He can do rising dairs even easier, and in general, can just keep a hold on the final smash to deter others from using it to eliminate him. In addition, he is one of the best at obtaining the smash ball and keeping others away from it, making him easily one of the best to abuse it. Finally, it acts as a solution to his only immediate character flaw, allowing him to pick off damaged opponents with ease.

There is more to the Final Smash than its power alone, and I would contest that Marth actually has one of the worst Final Smashes comparatively. He has to use it on a grounded opponent, it doesn't break through super armour, and in general is even easier to avoid than the Dragoon on reaction.

RANDUMASUTAH is legitimately amazing though.

I believe during Luigi's FS, his taunt will also OHKO.

 

[SmashChu]

Metaknight's FS is easily A tier at worst. He has no trouble setting up footstools, leading into it from almost any tech or get up, and generally has an easy time landing the move. In addition, the mere threat of his Final Smash is enough to keep opponents at bay and make his moves generally safer. He can do rising dairs even easier, and in general, can just keep a hold on the final smash to deter others from using it to eliminate him. In addition, he is one of the best at obtaining the smash ball and keeping others away from it, making him easily one of the best to abuse it. Finally, it acts as a solution to his only immediate character flaw, allowing him to pick off damaged opponents with ease.

There is more to the Final Smash than its power alone, and I would contest that Marth actually has one of the worst Final Smashes comparatively. He has to use it on a grounded opponent, it doesn't break through super armour, and in general is even easier to avoid than the Dragoon on reaction.

RANDUMASUTAH is legitimately amazing though.

I believe during Luigi's FS, his taunt will also OHKO.

Meta-Knight has one of the weakest Final Smash's around. Getting the smash ball is tougher for him since he has to hit it at least three times compared to most characters 2. It also is hard to set up. The move acts as a target like Marth, Link, Toon Link, Caaptain Falcon, and Ike. The move only works if the first attack hits, which is not true for every other character. So it's an all or nothing, which makes it weak in comparison to other moves. The other guys get the advantage that their moves are usually instant Kos unless at very low damages or the stage doesn't allow it. But comparatively, Meta-Knight is much weaker. Meta-Knight needs the character he hits to be at 80% or above. Marth can KO at 0 and Falcon at least at 30. The only benefit he gets is he hits everyone if the move connects, but the other characters can dodge. They also only get KOed if at 100 or above. It's just not an effective final smash.

Also, you can't control space very well with a Smash Ball. If playing with 3 or more, it wont work that well. Even with one, it may not happen since the Smash ball moves at it pleases and can go though solid objects.

 

[Sleek Media]

Luigi needs to be MUCH higher. Negative Zone is intimidating. You can easily force opponents into a corner or an approach. Either way, 99% of the time, once they enter the zone, they're dead.

 

[Bufu_Man]

MK can easily kill anyone at 40% with his final smash. He can get a smash ball with a quick nair and a fair follow up...

DK final smash is one of the best in the game. if timed right the sound waves go further then the entire FD stage.

Yoshi should not be so high.. Its super hard to kill someone.

Pikachu also should not be so high, it's very hard to hit someone who knows what they are doing, it also lacks kill power.

Luigi... wow, needs to be alot higher. pretty much instant death if you trap someone in it.

Olimar needs to be lower, super easy to avoid getting burried and avoid the explosion.

Gannondorf should easily be Top. after a shadow choke use your final smash and its an instant death.

marth should be a bit lower imo. Can be easily avoided with a simple spot dodge and if you use it in the air and miss you die.

mario should be one of the worst. Super slow. You'd have to be blind not to see it coming.

 

[SmashChu]

MK can easily kill anyone at 40% with his final smash. He can get a smash ball with a quick nair and a fair follow up...

His final smash does not come out quickly. It has a long start up and the range is more in front than up. Even still, he still needs 80-100 damage to KO. It's not as good as you all make it out to be.

 

[Dexident]

I must admit I rarely if every play with Final Smashes, I absolutely hate them.

Though in my brief and limited experience I am surprised that Snake is not "top tier". It seems like few ever survive that bull****.

 

[SmashChu]

Luigi needs to be MUCH higher. Negative Zone is intimidating. You can easily force opponents into a corner or an approach. Either way, 99% of the time, once they enter the zone, they're dead.

It's not as good as you think it is. When you are in there, you have a chance of randomly tripping or randomly taunting. You also have a lot of time before Luigi can act which means you have enough time to escape, from which point, you can spam projectiles safely from outside. You only get stunned if you jump. It's still good, but there are others that are better.

I must admit I rarely if every play with Final Smashes, I absolutely hate them.

Though in my brief and limited experience I am surprised that Snake is not "top tier". It seems like few ever survive that bull****.

Just move around. That's how you stop it.

 

[Ussi]

Ike combos into his FS out of jab

 

[Sleek Media]

It's not as good as you think it is. When you are in there, you have a chance of randomly tripping or randomly taunting. You also have a lot of time before Luigi can act which means you have enough time to escape, from which point, you can spam projectiles safely from outside. You only get stunned if you jump. It's still good, but there are others that are better.

Someone hasn't experienced the terrors of a skilled Luigi. Negative Zone can only be escaped if the Luigi makes a mistake. If he gets you near the center, which he always should, your only chance is to try and jump out, and hope that it doesn't send you into the helpless state. Now, if it's a multi-man Brawl, that's a different story. Luigi can't get everyone in the middle, so if you're on the edge, you can roll out.

The only FS that beats it is Super Sonic. Landmaster and Olimar's FS are good, but flying characters can usually avoid both. Giga Bowser and Wario Man are somewhat unwieldily and still avoidable. Negative Zone is multi-target and 0%KO with the bonus of ignoring respawn invulnerability, and cannot be avoided. Just possessing the smash ball makes Luigi completely unapproachable.

 

[SmashChu]

Someone hasn't experienced the terrors of a skilled Luigi. Negative Zone can only be escaped if the Luigi makes a mistake. If he gets you near the center, which he always should, your only chance is to try and jump out, and hope that it doesn't send you into the helpless state. Now, if it's a multi-man Brawl, that's a different story. Luigi can't get everyone in the middle, so if you're on the edge, you can roll out.

The only FS that beats it is Super Sonic. Landmaster and Olimar's FS are good, but flying characters can usually avoid both. Giga Bowser and Wario Man are somewhat unwieldily and still avoidable. Negative Zone is multi-target and 0%KO with the bonus of ignoring respawn invulnerability, and cannot be avoided. Just possessing the smash ball makes Luigi completely unapproachable.

It doesn't matter how good of a Luigi you are. The FS has Luigi stunned for a long period of time. That is your window to escape. You don't have to jump (and shouldn't because it always puts you into a helpless state). Just roll out.

 

[Sleek Media]

Yeah, you need to play a skilled Luigi. There isn't enough time to roll out of the middle of the NZ. He will catch you, assuming you even get the three or four needed clean rolls in the first place (which you probably won't).

 

[BSP]

Don't forget that Luigi can just force you into the air before he uses the NZ

Also, you can spotdodge the bulborb portion of Olimar's FS to reduce the damage considerably. It's easy to dodge the final explosion, and Olimar himself is a sitting duck after it.

Edit: actually looked at OP. Luigi is A tier at the worst. NZ is a really powerful move.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Don't forget that Luigi can just force you into the air before he uses the NZ

Also, you can spotdodge the bulborb portion of Olimar's FS to reduce the damage considerably. It's easy to dodge the final explosion, and Olimar himself is a sitting duck after it.

Edit: actually looked at OP. Luigi is A tier at the worst. NZ is a really powerful move.

I had some maps in terms of coverage on NZ. Maybe when I get home I will put them in here.

 

[SmashChu]

Yeah, you need to play a skilled Luigi. There isn't enough time to roll out of the middle of the NZ. He will catch you, assuming you even get the three or four needed clean rolls in the first place (which you probably won't).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQbRWocNus#t=0m21s
You have 7 seconds to get out. A good amount of time, seeing as the thing isn't that big.

Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIEGbpthU7M#t=0m24s
You can get out in 3-4 seconds. You only need 2 rolls, not 4.

Again, you are over estimating the move's abilities.

 

[moomoomamoo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQbRWocNus#t=0m21s
You have 7 seconds to get out. A good amount of time, seeing as the thing isn't that big.

Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIEGbpthU7M#t=0m24s
You can get out in 3-4 seconds. You only need 2 rolls, not 4.

Again, you are over estimating the move's abilities.

If you use it to edgeguard, it can easily take a stock. If you're in the air while inside the circle, you'll go into a fall state, leading to death if at the ledge. If you roll in to avoid this, you'll die from weegee.

 

[Sleek Media]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQbRWocNus#t=0m21s
You have 7 seconds to get out. A good amount of time, seeing as the thing isn't that big.

Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIEGbpthU7M#t=0m24s
You can get out in 3-4 seconds. You only need 2 rolls, not 4.

Again, you are over estimating the move's abilities.

Keep on theorycraftin'. Everyone else here is in agreement. A properly used NZ is a sure KO.

 

[SmashChu]

Keep on theorycraftin'. Everyone else here is in agreement. A properly used NZ is a sure KO.

There is no theorycrafting. The video clearly shows that 2 rolls get you out and it takes a 7 second start up. Now do the math.

It boils down to you don't have an argument. I presented actual evidence to back mine. You didn't. Luigi's is not as good as you want to think it is.

If you use it to edgeguard, it can easily take a stock. If you're in the air while inside the circle, you'll go into a fall state, leading to death if at the ledge. If you roll in to avoid this, you'll die from weegee.

That's a very specific situation. You could, but a lot of characters can avoid it. First, you have to have a Smash Ball and they have to be over the edge (so how does that happen). Unless on accident, you now need to have him be off the ledge to make this work, which also means you run the risk of dropping the Smash Ball. Even if it does happen, you can aim for the ledge and roll from there. Some characters can avoid it all together. Fox and Falco can just use the illusion to go though it. Some characters can just go over it.

 

[Kink-Link5]

You're right- MK's final smash, when compared to other characters' final smashes, does not have killing power or abusability, but those aren't the only things that make having a final smash dangerous. MK with a final smash on hand is easily one of the most problematic things any other character can face. Any move that is telegraphed becomes a free hit and often kill for MK, and his ability to play safe is multiplied 10 fold with it in hand. It isn't the easiest to scrub it up with, but it is by far the most dangerous asset for MK if he has it. Not to mention his ability to control the air and keep the opponent away from the Smash ball without having to damage it directly, then being able to break it in one hit.

Seriously, MK is bottom of A at the worst as far as abusing final smashes goes. It isn't a necessarily a free stock, but it's almost certainly a free game because of what MK having a FS means for his opponent. I'm not exaggerating its usefulness, but you certainly seem to be exaggerating my view point.

Let alone his ability to avoid every other characters' final smash with Infinite Dimensional Cape.

 

[SmashChu]

You're right- MK's final smash, when compared to other characters' final smashes, does not have killing power or abusability, but those aren't the only things that make having a final smash dangerous. MK with a final smash on hand is easily one of the most problematic things any other character can face. Any move that is telegraphed becomes a free hit and often kill for MK, and his ability to play safe is multiplied 10 fold with it in hand. It isn't the easiest to scrub it up with, but it is by far the most dangerous asset for MK if he has it. Not to mention his ability to control the air and keep the opponent away from the Smash ball without having to damage it directly, then being able to break it in one hit.

Seriously, MK is bottom of A at the worst as far as abusing final smashes goes. It isn't a necessarily a free stock, but it's almost certainly a free game because of what MK having a FS means for his opponent. I'm not exaggerating its usefulness, but you certainly seem to be exaggerating my view point.

Let alone his ability to avoid every other characters' final smash with Infinite Dimensional Cape.

I don't think you understand the final smashes.

First, Meta-Knight's final Smash has a slow start up. A well timed back roll will end it. Your also assuming he's a good character so he could us it. But you forget that almost all of the Final Smashes can be used immediately and get the same results. It's a weakness that he has to set it up in the first place. Even compared to characters that have to set it up (the other target ones), they are easier to set up and better. Link's, Toon Link's and Marth's travel across the screen and Ike's is much faster with a better hit box. The speed on MK's is the slowest start up compared only to Captain Falcon's. But Falcon's is overall better and I'm sure he can set it up just as well with his great speed. Overall, your assuming he could set it up, but that is a lot of guess work and even then, the results aren't very good. Essppecially when you have other A characters, like Falco and Diddy, who get way more use and damage out of their and can be used the minute it's gotten (so no risk of dropping it).

We're also assuming 1v1 here. Add more players, and it's worse. Maybe easier to get someone, but easier to drop and no real set up potential.

It's not an A. It's one of the bottom Final Smashes. The only reason you people defend it so is because you think Meta-Knight is SO GOOD so his FS must be so too.

 

[Kink-Link5]

MK is an alright character who loses to Ice Climbers on FD and sometimes BF and loses to players who can out patient him with Diddy and Olimar. MK with a Final Smash is better than every other character, and he has a far easier time getting one than anyone else in the game. You assume all people who have something positive to say about MK are scrubs who see one good aspect about him and overgeneralise, but that, in itself, is an overgeneralisation of your audience. You aren't going to convince anyone of anything if you insult them.

 

[SmashChu]

MK is an alright character who loses to Ice Climbers on FD and sometimes BF and loses to players who can out patient him with Diddy and Olimar. MK with a Final Smash is better than every other character, and he has a far easier time getting one than anyone else in the game. You assume all people who have something positive to say about MK are scrubs who see one good aspect about him and overgeneralise, but that, in itself, is an overgeneralisation of your audience. You aren't going to convince anyone of anything if you insult them.

Again, you don't understand final smashes and it shows.

You want to know who the best character is with a final smash? Falco and Wolf as they become freakin' tanks that can lift you off the stage. Characters who can use it immediately are better. As far as getting it, it depends on the situation. He will have to hit it more than most characters and many powerful characters can get it in one hit. It all comes down to controlling space which is something Meta-Knight is good at. But other characters can get it as well and with fewer hits. It depends on what is happening. In a 4vs setting, he is the worst at getting it.

I could go on and on but people saying it should be high are using a lot of "what ifs" and assuming that him getting it (assuming) and him using it well (assuming) make it good despite the move itself is very very weak in comparison to all the other final smashes (I'd say ZSS is far better as it just does more.)

The insulting you speak of is me saying other people are over hyping. I didn't call anyone names, so it is not insulting. Hyping is what is going on. The fact is many people don't get final smashes as most of them and, I'm sure, don't use them (it's not used in tournaments).

 

[Sleek Media]

Again, you don't understand final smashes and it shows.

You want to know who the best character is with a final smash? Falco and Wolf as they become freakin' tanks that can lift you off the stage.

Stopped reading here. Made this instead.

 

[SmashChu]

Stopped reading here. Made this instead.

Because Supersonic can't lift people off the screen and get 6 KOs.

 

[Kyoshi]

MK with a Final Smash is better than every other character,

NOW I'LL SHOW YOU!

and he has a far easier time getting one than anyone else in the game.

Especially without projectiles. Yep.

Okay, I won't be so harsh. I will warn against exaggeration, however.

Characters who can use [the final smash/smash ball] immediately are better. As far as getting it, it depends on the situation. [Meta Knight] will have to hit it more than most characters and many powerful characters can get it in one hit. It all comes down to controlling space which is something Meta-Knight is good at. But other characters can get it as well and with fewer hits. It depends on what is happening. In a 4vs setting, he is the worst at getting it.

I could go on and on but people saying it should be high are using a lot of "what ifs" and assuming that him getting it (assuming) and him using it well (assuming) make it good despite the move itself is very very weak in comparison to all the other final smashes (I'd say ZSS is far better as it just does more.)

SmashChu, I apologize for coming to your defense so late. You seem to be handling yourself very well with both MK's final smash and Weegie's final smash.

Here's my take:
→Okay, let's be real. Which character doesn't have fun with you when you're off the ledge and they have a final smash? ZSS (maybe), but only because she knows she'll become regular, armored Samus if she gives in. I concede that the iceberg is ineffective for edgeguarding and that PokeTrainer's FS is so iffy it might actually bring you back to the ledge (somehow) - but other than that, any boast of excellence in edgeguarding can be applied to almost any character's FS (Marth must execute extreme caution).
→You really can z-roll out of Negative Zone while Luigi is dancing. He has to have you near the ledge - and again, just about any character's FS can cook you there anyway.
→This dispute is actually leading me to consider sticking MK lower. That startup lag is very troublesome, and the backroll point by SmashChu is true...
_________

Because Supersonic can't lift people off the screen and get 6 KOs.

Sadly, neither can the Landmasters; the halos last too long if the opponent doesn't touch his controller, and Landmaster doesn't defy halos. They can still get 3 KOs by lifting people. Whereas Sonic has to work a little harder for his meals (though he is ultimately unavoidable). (Hyrule Temple abusers can wall tech all of the above.)

Olimar is getting moved down because his final smash really can be mostly avoided. He will still be Upper Mid-Tier because of the spike portion and how easily he obtains smash balls. The Starfox characters now dominate A Tier.

Please keep commenting with suggestions! I'm hoping to get the list formalized in some way soon, but I do need more feedback first.

Thanks,
Kyoshi

 

[SmashChu]

Sadly, neither can the Landmasters; the halos last too long if the opponent doesn't touch his controller, and Landmaster doesn't defy halos. They can still get 3 KOs by lifting people. Whereas Sonic has to work a little harder for his meals (though he is ultimately unavoidable). (Hyrule Temple abusers can wall tech all of the above.)

Your right, you can get them on the recovery platform. The thing is, if Falco can KO you fast enough, he'll have time to lift you right when you get back. It may not work, but it's an extra opportunity where you can get more than 3 KOs (which is amazing as most only get 3, assuming the players aren't just falling all over themselves).

Please keep commenting with suggestions! I'm hoping to get the list formalized in some way soon, but I do need more feedback first.

Thanks,
Kyoshi

Of course. It's an interesting thread for sure.

 

[Starwave]

Hmm, I also play with Final Smashes with my brother regularly... not a bad tier list. I bet idealistic and childish, but good nonetheless, although you have a few glaring issues.

You need to raise Wario to top tier. Its definitely superior to Fox's since his 0-deaths are rather ridiculous. He has a ridiculous amount of methods to kill you since all his normals link (his Up air for example will link 4-5-6 times (7 if you're lucky) and his waft will kill you at low %. Wario should absolutely be in top tier.

Drop Mario into bottom tier, since its by far the single worst final smash in the game. You will not land it against a player who knows how to dodge and DI, I guarantee this. Luigi's final, and frankly its absurd that you actually think its hard to kill people with this. Its ridiculously easy to kill enemies with this final smash after it causes dizzy (or sleep, or taunt) with Luigi's Up B or forward smash. It covers most of the stage and jumping in the air is risky since it causes air tumble. Move him up to High tier. I'm not sure why you decided to ignore this post: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14049200&postcount=22
On a whim.

I'm disappointed you fell into the Donkey Kong trap. Its a rather good final smash, that requires timing to be successful. You can also rapidly tap the A button to deal great damage, and start timing the hits to finish them off. If also else fails it does great damage and its a top tier edge guarding final smash. It's a mid tier level Final Smash.

Zero Suit Samus Final smash can easily kill at 50%, and DIing away to avoid a KO is impossible. Its certainly not bottom tier, but its not good either. I'd place it in low tier. As a Pit main, you're wrong about Pit being a Final Smash getting ace. In fact he's extremely poor at it. Of all his aerials, only his down air can actually break the smash ball after "the first hit" (or a few seconds) and its extremely awkard trying to land an arrow shot in. At the same time, placing it in mid tier seems wrong since its an extremely overpowered Final Smash. Pit is free to move, 4 seconds in and he can attack (or grab which is almost a guaranteed KO) the opponent. Its a high tier final smash.

Lucas and Ness belong in low tier. I speak from experience (I 2nd Ness... at one point I even mained him, but its a long story) like you said, its easy to dodge their starbolts. To easy in fact, and the fact they can easily get the smashball is invalidated if you can dodge each starbolt. I'm willing to make an exception for Ness, since his Final Smash can OHKO at 70%, but Lucas is really poor. The only reason they're not bottom tier is that human error exists, and there's a good chance you'll mess up and die to a repeated star bolt hits (only at low %)

You're right on the money with high tier, but drop Diddy the bottom of high tier, since he's undoubtedly the worst out of the bunch. On top of having downright "awful" manoeuvrability , he can only really kill when he explodes at the end of the final smash. Its still really good though. Fox and Wolf should trade places. The short time is circumvented with his ridiculous kill power and mobility.

I sooner put DDD in low tier, but i'm always flip flopping my opinion with him. I'd also raise Ganondorf to high tier, simply due to the fact that a forward B + final smash is an instant KO, and its got incredible range.

 

[SmashChu]

You need to raise Wario to top tier. Its definitely superior to Fox's since his 0-deaths are rather ridiculous. He has a ridiculous amount of methods to kill you since all his normals link (his Up air for example will link 4-5-6 times (7 if you're lucky) and his waft will kill you at low %. Wario should absolutely be in top tier.

It's hard to say. Yeah, Wario's is good, but you also have a hard time setting up a lot of kill tactics (which are all done in the air). A lot of good players are just going to dodge it. So you may be over exaggerating.

Drop Mario into bottom tier, since its by far the single worst final smash in the game. You will not land it against a player who knows how to dodge and DI, I guarantee this.

In a 4vs, it may not be that easy. Also, if you get stuck in the middle, it really hard to get out. It's not very good, but I think you are incorrect with your assertion.

Luigi's final, and frankly its absurd that you actually think its hard to kill people with this. Its ridiculously easy to kill enemies with this final smash after it causes dizzy (or sleep, or taunt) with Luigi's Up B or forward smash. It covers most of the stage and jumping in the air is risky since it causes air tumble. Move him up to High tier.

Went over this one already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQbRWocNus#t=0m21s
You have 7 seconds to get out. A good amount of time, seeing as the thing isn't that big.

Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIEGbpthU7M#t=0m24s
You can get out in 3-4 seconds. You only need 2 rolls, not 4.

Again, you are over estimating the move's abilities.

I'm disappointed you fell into the Donkey Kong trap. Its a rather good final smash, that requires timing to be successful. You can also rapidly tap the A button to deal great damage, and start timing the hits to finish them off. If also else fails it does great damage and its a top tier edge guarding final smash. It's a mid tier level Final Smash.

It's a good smash, but your strategy with it sucks. It's always better to go with the beat since it gets larger over time and takes up more space. Small claps do nothing and are easy to get out of.

 

[Starwave]

It's hard to say. Yeah, Wario's is good, but you also have a hard time setting up a lot of kill tactics (which are all done in the air). A lot of good players are just going to dodge it. So you may be over exaggerating.

Easier said then done. Wario's bike covers a huge horizontal space, and its extremely effective at killing people. Cancelling it is rather easy too. Wario is better off targeting a single person, rather than to try and get a bunch of characters bunched up. Doing so will guarantee at least 1 person's death and severe damage to everyone else. At the end of the way, Wario is invincible once he presses that B button, and there is literally no downside to using it. It should not be in the same tier as the likes of Zelda / Samus (requires precision) or Diddy Pikachu (awkward controls)

In a 4vs, it may not be that easy. Also, if you get stuck in the middle, it really hard to get out. It's not very good, but I think you are incorrect with your assertion.

I disagree with that assertion, since Mario makes it extremely obvious when he's going to use the final smash by going to one end of the stage. Again, even if you're stuck in the middle, you will not be OHKOed since at low % it cuts out at about 35% damage dealt (and you can easily recover from it) and at high % your characters sort of pop out. It is the very definition of bad final smash. The only way to OHKO with this final smash is to have the opponent at 0-14% (any more and it will fail) and use the final smash while Mario is directly in front of them. It sounds strange, but it sucks them in from Mario's back and it actually OHKOes that way depending on the stage.

Went over this one already.

Your videos weren't convincing. Luigi doesn't instantly use his Final Smash, he waits for the right opportunity to envelop most of the stage, and then he gets you. Using it in the air is ideal, and the chances of getting screwed over is staggering. It's your word vs 4-5 of ours.

 

[Starwave]

Sorry for the double post, but I can't believe I mentioned this before but...

Falco is absolutely S tier, and is the single best Final Smash in the game, yes even better than Sonic. It lasts for a grand total of 18 seconds, and is guaranteed to kill several characters on the field. Its insane hover capabilities will let grant a bunch of star KOs, its cannon has equal fire power to Fox's, and its only downside in comparison to the other smashes is the lowered ground movement speed, which shouldn't even be moving on the ground anyway. The worst part about Falco's final smash is the length. In 1 vs 1's, it can guarantee 1 KO, and has a high chance of granting 2 (YES EVEN IF THE OPPONENT IS WAITING ON THE HOVER PAD, ITS THAT BROKEN) In 4 player free for alls, it can get 2 kills, and 3 or 4 if you're lucky. There's a good chance you'll end up disregarding this post. I don't mind, however I urge you to try that final smash whenever you can, its outrageous.

I'm not sure how you got away with putting Fox over Falco initially to be honest; Which leads me to believe that you need to use all of the characters more extensively.

 

[Sleek Media]

Still waiting for SmashChu to actually make a reasonable post rather than simply dismissing whatever the last person said.

Anyway, I disagree with landmaster being that good. It's GOOD, but not S tier. Are we assuming that players put the controller down for the duration of the smash, or what? Dodge the laser, jump on top if it rushes, and keep jumping. If he hits the boosters, you have plenty of time to move to the side. IIRC, you can even soft drop through the cannon. Not to mention that it largely depends on small, relatively flat stages.

And yes, Mario's is the absolute worst in the game. I hate it, but it's true. DK is the only one that's even close, since both are reliably completely avoidable except in a worst case edgeguarding situation. ZSS gets an honorable mention for the horrible transformation aspect.

 

[SmashChu]

Still waiting for SmashChu to actually make a reasonable post rather than simply dismissing whatever the last person said.

I'm a busy man. But I'm not sure you should be saying anything when you got real evidence proving you wrong and still said I was wrong.

Replying to this one because it's quicker. I'll get back to yours later Starwaves

Anyway, I disagree with landmaster being that good. It's GOOD, but not S tier. Are we assuming that players put the controller down for the duration of the smash, or what? Dodge the laser, jump on top if it rushes, and keep jumping. If he hits the boosters, you have plenty of time to move to the side. IIRC, you can even soft drop through the cannon. Not to mention that it largely depends on small, relatively flat stages.

Again, your trying to look at very narrow scenarios. It's S because it's big, takes up a lot of space, has multiple attacks and can hover (two of which can KO you this way). Yes, you can dodge it, but it's big and can do a lot of things.

I hate it, but it's true. DK is the only one that's even close, since both are reliably completely avoidable except in a worst case edgeguarding situation.

Seeing as DK's takes up most stages, I'd say your wrong.

 

[Pippy]

DK's you can just dodge if you can keep the beat. As for Landmaster, I agree that it should be top tier. On most stages, it's so big that it's going to be near impossible to dodge.

 

[SmashChu]

Easier said then done. Wario's bike covers a huge horizontal space, and its extremely effective at killing people. Cancelling it is rather easy too. Wario is better off targeting a single person, rather than to try and get a bunch of characters bunched up. Doing so will guarantee at least 1 person's death and severe damage to everyone else. At the end of the way, Wario is invincible once he presses that B button, and there is literally no downside to using it. It should not be in the same tier as the likes of Zelda / Samus (requires precision) or Diddy Pikachu (awkward controls)

Wario can also kill himself with the bike. That's the risk of it. Overall, his final smash is better if you understand the final smash and understand Wario. I would not say it's an easy final smash.

Also, there is no downside to using any final smash except for Marth on certain occasions.

I disagree with that assertion, since Mario makes it extremely obvious when he's going to use the final smash by going to one end of the stage. Again, even if you're stuck in the middle, you will not be OHKOed since at low % it cuts out at about 35% damage dealt (and you can easily recover from it) and at high % your characters sort of pop out. It is the very definition of bad final smash. The only way to OHKO with this final smash is to have the opponent at 0-14% (any more and it will fail) and use the final smash while Mario is directly in front of them. It sounds strange, but it sucks them in from Mario's back and it actually OHKOes that way depending on the stage.

From what I've played, it works best if your in the middle. If your in the top, you'll die with no DI, but it's easy to get out at those points. I haven't tasted it with specific damages, but that's for another day. Also, you don't have to get at the edge and use it. You can use it anywhere and midstage is best since it doesn't travel as far.

I'm not saying it's amazing. Just people under estimate it.

Your videos weren't convincing. Luigi doesn't instantly use his Final Smash, he waits for the right opportunity to envelop most of the stage, and then he gets you. Using it in the air is ideal, and the chances of getting screwed over is staggering. It's your word vs 4-5 of ours.

Luigi's final smash isn't big enough to take up the whole stage, and on places like Final Destination or Smashville, you can always roll out of it. It takes 2 rolls from the center to outside of the negative zone. Even if you use it in the air, the same thing happens. Roll out.

 

[Starwave]

Controlling Wario's bike is extremely easy once you get the hand of it. Its noticeably easier to control than Pikachu and Diddy. I think ease of use should not play into the tiering position of any of the final smashes, since we'll run into pitfalls.

I'm not underestimating Mario's final smash, i've tried to make it work but its truly and utterly irredeemable.

As for Luigi, I and several. At this point I can't convince you, but I urge you to try again. Rolling out of negative so much harder than it sounds, and Luigi is free after a few seconds. All it takes is one Fsmash or Up B for an instant KO.

Also you didn't respond to half of what I said... am I to assume that you agree with those points? (Falco especially?)
I wish you'd have created the tier list Smashchu, since the OP's low activity isn't really helpful.

 

[SmashChu]

I'm not underestimating Mario's final smash, i've tried to make it work but its truly and utterly irredeemable.

Easy way to use it is to use the chaos. Just shoot it into a crowd. With fgood timing and placement, you can get a KO. I will stress 1)It still is weak and 2)You need to have it hit right.

As for Luigi, I and several. At this point I can't convince you, but I urge you to try again. Rolling out of negative so much harder than it sounds, and Luigi is free after a few seconds. All it takes is one Fsmash or Up B for an instant KO.

Again, video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIEGbpthU7M#t=0m24s

Notice how he just kind of just gets out. As far as the people arguing against me, they stopped once I posted the links. Should tell you something.

Also you didn't respond to half of what I said... am I to assume that you agree with those points? (Falco especially?)

Most of my replies were the big picture stuff, so I don't reply line by line. Otherwise, I just missed it.

As far as Falco goes, I agree. I think Falco's is actually the best.

I wish you'd have created the tier list Smashchu, since the OP's low activity isn't really helpful.

Be nice. I might make one in the future, but mostly to help the OP. It's hard to just run though each point on 37 different FS. My goal was to make my own and compare it.

The one thing I'll say is I hate the number of tiers there are. I don't think the range of FS is that large. Only need 4 tiers: Great, Good, OK, and Weak.