Final Smashes: Meter or Item?

[Robert of Normandy]

So you're more of a Hyper Fighting fan than a Super Turbo fan?

I think he's more talking about stuff like Ultras in SF4 than regular Supers.

 

[Big-Cat]

Absolutely not, but I'm not sure how my preference in SFII versions has anything to do with disliking overbearing flashy super attacks.

Hyper Fighting and Super Turbo are the most popular versions of SF2. Hyper Fighting is praised for its emphasis on strictly fundamentals and fireball games. Super Turbo is praised for its fundamentals, the ability to juggle, have soft knockdown moves, tech throws, and the first appearance of the super meter in the series.

In a sense, it's like choosing a game that's flashy or not assuming quality is not inherently affected.

 

[El Duderino]

Well yeah, ultras in SF4 are lame. I would hate to see smash go even further in that direction.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'd rather supers than Ultras. Just so long as we don't have another X-Factor.

 

[El Duderino]

Wow I read that wrong, saw Turbo and assumed he was talking about SFII Turbo for the snes, aka the SFII: Hyper Fighting. And yes, I greatly prefer that to Super Street Fighter II: Turbo.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I don't mind Supers so long as they're not overlong and not overly flashy and don't bog down the gameplay when they occur.

Whenever a FS occurs, the match becomes one-sided and basically stops until the FS finishes. It's either one person killing everyone else or people playing a game of cat and mouse. At least in other fighters you can be punished during a super if you use it at the wrong time.

 

[Big-Cat]

Wow I read that wrong, saw Turbo and assumed he was talking about SFII Turbo for the snes, aka the SFII: Hyper Fighting. And yes, I greatly prefer that to Super Street Fighter II: Turbo.

You are DEAD to me! DEAD!

Just kidding. I don't have much of an opinion on SF2 beyond it seeming plain compared to future fighters.

 

[El Duderino]

Honestly it's probably more of a nostalgia thing, not necessarily because of the supers.

At least in other fighters you can be punished during a super if you use it at the wrong time.

That is true, but when they do connect, gameplay usually still comes to some kind of hault, possibly even an extended one if there is a follow up. Consistent play is one of Smash's strong suits. With any sort of Super/Ultra/Meter attack it's just too easy for the developers to loose sight of that and break the pacing.

Then there is also a power creep issue of sorts, where the core moves become less meaningful to the match the more powerful and easy to execute these build up attacks are. Better to keep those type of outcome altering, low-risk high-reward, moments purely to items. The last thing I want for Smash is to feel like a Meter dictates a match.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Damned kids. Back in my day we didn't have no fancy supers. We played our fighting games with skill.(GET OFF MAH LAWN)

But like I said, leave the FS as an item and let the (damn) kids have their super-special-awesome moves, and then meter can be built to be used on more reserved EX-moves.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I like this idea alot actually!

You know what would be a pain in the @$$??? If bosses were allowed to activate the Final Smash kinda how in Mortal Kombat how bosses were allowed to perform X-Ray moves on you!

Actually, based on my concepts, only the playable characters would be able to use the Smash Ball.

 

[rawrimamonster]

The last thing I wanna see is some babby meter introducing what is basically a super system to smash, I play smash because I like doing my own combos among other things. You gotta consider as possessed by the spirit of forcing the game to be casual as sakurai is (since hes directing) they'd turn out to all be broken versions of stage wipers like mario's final smash in brawl. Keep it as a item so we can turn the crap off and the casual kids can have their supers. Brawl was already campy planky crap, i dont wanna see a 3rd strike repeat where everyones even MORE scared to approach.

 

[El Duderino]

Damned kids. Back in my day we didn't have no fancy supers. We played our fighting games with skill.(GET OFF MAH LAWN)

But like I said, leave the FS as an item and let the (damn) kids have their super-special-awesome moves, and then meter can be built to be used on more reserved EX-moves.

In this case it's not at all about skill, it's about keeping true to what Smash is and does well while experimenting and building within that framework. Part of that framework, at least initially, was not having moves rely on outside conditions to perform.

Let PlayStation All-stars have the meter, as well as the hundreds of other fighting games that do. Done right, yes it can be a compelling mechanic, but it also changes the dynamic of how you play a match. That shifted focus is not right for every fighting game and Smash is no exception.

 

[SmashChu]

So it's perfectly okay for Sonic to literally spawn kill somebody with Super Sonic?

You can't do that actually. The final smashes (except for Falco) don't last long enough to get a KO on the same person twice. So long as you stay in the recovery platform, you will not get KOed by it again. Falco can get up to 6 KOs, but he has to KO everyone really fast and then KO the players by lifting off (which you can easily deal with).

Yes, Sonic's FS can KO you at very low damages so can many others (Marth KOs at 0% on most characters). Remember though that the Smash Ball isn't given to him. You have to break it.

Oh, one last thing. The one major tournament that ran Smash Ball didn't have Sonic in the finals or even the top 8 I believe. (Didn't have Meta-Knight either I believe).

 

[Robert of Normandy]

You can't do that actually. The final smashes (except for Falco) don't last long enough to get a KO on the same person twice. So long as you stay in the recovery platform, you will not get KOed by it again. Falco can get up to 6 KOs, but he has to KO everyone really fast and then KO the players by lifting off (which you can easily deal with).

Um.. yes, actually, Sonic can. I've had it happen to me many times when I played vBrawl, whenever Sonic got a smash ball he would kill me then hover around the spawn platform waiting for me to fall and then kill me again.

 

[DarkSouls]

Absolutely not, but I'm not sure how my preference in SFII versions has anything to do with disliking overbearing flashy super attacks.

I was making a joke because Hyper Fighting fans tend to dislike Super Turbo's Super mechanic.

 

[Carlo_H.Luz]

I totally like the idea. This has much more justice. A meter based of how much damage a player has done to the others

 

[satowolf]

Grab smash ball.
Meter is filled.
Engage epic Cut-scene mode.
Done.

 

[Ove]

I like meters, but I don't think it suits so well in Smash...

 

[Mypantisgone]

Maybe you have a Meter,and the Smash ball only does a higher filling than normal combos.

 

[ThisGuy]

How about something like a LIMIT BREAK where it only fills when you take damage and must be activated with A+B or Charge B.

 

[Alus]

How about if you are on a kill streak?

Get 3 ko's without dying.

Yeah i know, it sounds dumb, but pause and think about it.

 

[Phantom287]

I, personally, really like the crowd pleaser idea. In one game I played in the past, Gladius, you control a school of gladiators and during the fight colored meters on the screen indicate the crowds current approval rating of your team and the opposing team(s). Depending on how much the crowd cheers you on, your team gets certain bonuses (increased Initiative, increased movement, increased critical hit damage, etc.). of course, you lose meter if your team is doing a poor job and you lose those bonuses.

Back to SSB, the crowd meter could be used to build up a FS and the more the crowd is behind your character, the faster it builds. This could, hopefully, encourage players to fight at their best.

Of course, if this is implemented, FSs would need to be tweaked since, as they are now, they range anywhere from borderline useless to so broken it's not even funny.

 

[Big-Cat]

How about something like a LIMIT BREAK where it only fills when you take damage and must be activated with A+B or Charge B.

This then takes us to the Ultras of Street Fighter 4 which have not been very popular due to them being clutch attacks.

 

[Alus]

This then takes us to the Ultras of Street Fighter 4 which have not been very popular due to them being clutch attacks.

People seem to hate anything that does damage, i haven't heard many complaints on mortal kombat's xray.

In other words, i think the solution would be just to not make it take half a bar of health.

Or in this case, 80% with huge knockback.

EDIT: okay okay, MAYBE it was because your ex meter and xray meter were shared.

I, personally, really like the crowd pleaser idea. In one game I played in the past, Gladius, you control a school of gladiators and during the fight colored meters on the screen indicate the crowds current approval rating of your team and the opposing team(s). Depending on how much the crowd cheers you on, your team gets certain bonuses (increased Initiative, increased movement, increased critical hit damage, etc.). of course, you lose meter if your team is doing a poor job and you lose those bonuses.

Back to SSB, the crowd meter could be used to build up a FS and the more the crowd is behind your character, the faster it builds. This could, hopefully, encourage players to fight at their best.

Of course, if this is implemented, FSs would need to be tweaked since, as they are now, they range anywhere from borderline useless to so broken it's not even funny.

This would fit the smash setting.

 

[Retroend]

oh man, its been a while since i last looked at this. keep it rolling guys. i'll have my say a little later on.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Imo i think final smashes should just stay as items but when the time in which they spawn should be adjustable. This way it doesn't become a guessing game for players to figure out when it's showing up. Like an option to set a smash ball to appear every 5 minutes or even have an option that enables the smash balls appear only after all players in the case of a stock match reach 1 life remaining.

 

[Mulecc]

I do like the idea of having a meter though.

That would remind me a bit of Naruto games and the chakra meter.

 

[Scar86]

How about if you are on a kill streak?

Get 3 ko's without dying.

Yeah i know, it sounds dumb, but pause and think about it.

Lel, more like. 3 kills.

[COLLAPSE=]"

"][/COLLAPSE]


UAV ONLINE. Cover me marth, I'm going for the ray-gun!

Infinty Ward Pls. go

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

I'd say its a meter as long as there's a way to turn them off. It'd be too cheap in a serious match, as some are CLEARLY better than others.

 

[Reyson]

Final Smashes are a nice way to turn a match around because it is so random. If you do it with meters, the people who are playing well will be even better and those that are losing will lose even harder. Most items in Smash are designed to give people who aren't so good a chance to win against those who are and Smash balls are part of that.

 

[Orngeblu]

I think it should say as a Smash Ball. It just seems unoriginal to go for a Meter, then again Smash Ball would be the same thing as brawl... Still, I believe it should be Smash Ball over meter. It's more original.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think it should say as a Smash Ball. It just seems unoriginal to go for a Meter, then again Smash Ball would be the same thing as brawl... Still, I believe it should be Smash Ball over meter. It's more original.

Original doesn't mean better.

 

[8-peacock-8]

I'd like to see both a meter and smash ball as options

When using the smash ball, the meter is turned off. But when you enter the item settings and turn the smash ball off, you will have a meter instead.

 

[Placebo Effect]

Gotta agree with everyone else, meter and Smash Ball options with the option to turn them both off.
Also, I thought the Final Smash was supposed to be introduced in Smash 64. So it's not that new of an idea, just that Sakurai finally got to be able to use it in Brawl. Also it felt like he put too much focus on the single player that could've been time used on other stuff in Brawl, but I digress.

 

[Zuby]

Why not both? A meter that gradually builds up, and the smash ball that instantly fills it.

In any case I personally will continue to turn final smash off.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Meter would be great because it encourages you to approach. In street fighter, having ex bars gave you more options and meter is built on scoring hits and using special moves. So i think having meter would be great to discourage camping and make people approach if they want to use their meter.

 

[UltimateLoser]

Meter would be great because it encourages you to approach. In street fighter, having ex bars gave you more options and meter is built on scoring hits and using special moves. So i think having meter would be great to discourage camping and make people approach if they want to use their meter.

Maybe the meter could go down slowly if nothing happened, which would decrease the amount of camping in the game.

 

[Big-Cat]

Why not just make it to where you're encouraged to attack instead? The upcoming patch of SFxTK is going about encouraging more offensive play with this. Higher meter gain for landing hits while reducing the amount of meter gained from blocked hits.

 

[reed302]

what is this friend i dont know

 

[Snakeyes]

Leave it as an item only. What I think would be neat are Smash Balls that are meant for a certain player. For example, imagine a match pitting Mario against Link. Link pulls off some combat sequence that rewards him with a Link-themed Smash Ball. It would still hover around the stage like the current Smash Ball but break much quicker if Link hits it instead of Mario. That way;

- The fun of chasing after a Smash Ball remains intact.
- The new Smash Ball's variable durability rewards the right players provided that they make an effort to chase after it.
- Even though it'll be harder to break, there is still an incentive for other players to go after the Smash Ball.
- And if Final Smashes are still an unbalanced mess, the Smash Ball remains an item that can be turned off.