• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Final Smashes- Bad idea?

WhiteZER0

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
171
Location
Yellowknife, soon to be Calgary =/
During the 15 second trailer - I've noticed that when Pikachu unleashed his FS, the camera zoomed in quite a bit. Now, that could be a problem.
I mean - how exactly would that effect the gameplay ? It looks like it could be a nuisance if you ask me.

~ Late ~
It's a trailer, so they probably do zoom ins and what not (Ex: in the trailer they zoomed in on Wario). To add effect, if you will
 

OnyxVulpine

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
2,920
Location
Hawaii
Sooo...
-You have to fight to get to it. (Even if its in a set area)
-Its probably blockable and dodgable to a certain extent.
-If it does knock you off the stage you still have a chance to get back on depending on how much damage you had on you and how much it did to you..
-Not sure if theres anything else. But we don't know how they work yet and how everyone's FSs will do. So right now we can only hope it will be balanced, and I am sure they will try to balance it as much as possible. Even in group friendlies balance is nice to have.
 

the grim lizard

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
3,130
I dont think it should have been added at all. Its an intresting idea for an item but whoo boy coming up for one for EVERY character?

can you say waste of time? I can.

Because when you boil it down the final smash is a very pretty looking attack, that requires no skill to use.

I mean think about how many weeks/months went into all the final smashes and what it could have been spent on. A final smash involves grabbing a floating ball then putting your controller down and going to get a soda, or in the case of pikachus volt tackle, moving around the stick with one hand while having a cigarette.

Point being that these attacks are way too easy to do, in fact they're automatic, and they cause so much damage and take up so much time.

As a person who derives 90 percent of his video gaming pleasure from pure gameplay I can ignore how good the final smashes look and honnestly say I wish they didn't exist because of how little playing is involved in doing them.
Once again, Dylan continues to blow my mind with his vast knowledge of a game that has yet to be released...
 

maxpower1227

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
1,443
Hmm.. not sure if this has been brought up yet, but I think we can safely say that the FS will NOT be in a set area:

The explosion launches out and expands vertically as it travels, so in order to inflict the most damage possible on enemies, it's best to release this from a slight floating or midair position on either the left or right side of the screen.
 

_Phloat_

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 1, 2006
Messages
2,953
Location
Tennessee V_V
I just came upon this thought today; do you think maybe it was a bad idea to add the "Final Smash" attack into the game? After seeing the video that was posted on the site the other day, I noticed that Pikachu's attack (Volt Tackle) looked kind of weak and ineffective, whereas Mario's and Bowser's were sure to destroy everyone around them. It also appeared to me that Kirby's Final Smash wasn't very impressive either. The way these attacks differ from one another make some characters seem plain better than others, and that kind of makes me think that perhaps when [we] play the game, we'll just end up choosing our characters out of who has the most effective Final Smash, and leave some characters out of our selection completely.
Like, if you look at Mario's attack, you can see that the whole stage is engulfed in inescapable flames. And then you see that Link's clamorous sword shuffling (as glorious as it looks) only targets a single foe. It doesn't seem fair.

Does anyone else worry that this might cause us to neglect playing as a variety of characters, or am I just making a mistake?
I think that attacks that target only one person will be a lot stronger, and the attacks that need to be manually aimed will be stronger too..

Besides, They come from an item, and even a good one is better than not getting one at all!

Chances are they won't be in tournaments anyways.
 

Thunderslf

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
256
I dont think it should have been added at all. Its an intresting idea for an item but whoo boy coming up for one for EVERY character?

can you say waste of time? I can.

Because when you boil it down the final smash is a very pretty looking attack, that requires no skill to use.

I mean think about how many weeks/months went into all the final smashes and what it could have been spent on. A final smash involves grabbing a floating ball then putting your controller down and going to get a soda, or in the case of pikachus volt tackle, moving around the stick with one hand while having a cigarette.

Point being that these attacks are way too easy to do, in fact they're automatic, and they cause so much damage and take up so much time.

As a person who derives 90 percent of his video gaming pleasure from pure gameplay I can ignore how good the final smashes look and honnestly say I wish they didn't exist because of how little playing is involved in doing them.
How do you know that EVERY FS will require no effort at all? We haven't even seen all of them yet, and so far, some of them do require effort. Giga Bowser's requires you to move around and what-not. Granted, that's only one, but you don't even need to have the Smash Ball turned on, and can merely turn it off and have fun with the other great features the game has.
 

Superstar

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
2,351
Location
Miami, Florida
Compared to using advanced techs and relying on character movesets, FS will take no effort. They are and will be ludicrously simple in comparison to a shffl dair to a shine combo. And obviously Dylan is exaggerating [slightly].

I think maxpower was trying to state a probability. He wants it for use in frantic play and as much as I prefer a set location/constant time for reappearance, the purpose of the FSs was to make the game more crazy and fun for casual players. This thing is most likely not going to be catered for competitive play, so I assume it will be something competitive players turn off during serious matches.

However, these are merely guesses, looking at the most probable factor.
 

_Phloat_

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 1, 2006
Messages
2,953
Location
Tennessee V_V
I think that it is a good idea, but not the greatest

Balence > Fluff

What is more fun, something that will keep you entertained for 24 hours, or going to tournaments and seeing all the characters being played?

I would love to see more variety at tournaments..

Not saying that there is some sort of "honor" in playing the better chars, and that the worst should be played, but a little more balence, IE why the hell is foxes fast Usmash that strong?
 

Kirby knight

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
1,479
Location
Pennsylvania
I think you can ''release'' it whenever you want though, the question on everyone mind is will the smash icon spawn randomly, or in a set location??
Well considering the last 2 SBB games had randomly spawning items, most likely the Smash Icon will follow the same suit. We'll either have to wait for an update or the SSBB to be released to confirm for sure.
 

Jujumasta

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
245
Yeah, I would not like to have it in serious matches, the FS ball can turn the game instantly :laugh:
 

Dylan_Tnga

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
4,644
Location
Montreal Canada
How do you know that EVERY FS will require no effort at all? We haven't even seen all of them yet, and so far, some of them do require effort. Giga Bowser's requires you to move around and what-not. Granted, that's only one, but you don't even need to have the Smash Ball turned on, and can merely turn it off and have fun with the other great features the game has.
Yeah I know, its just that Id rather have more characters than a final smash for every character if you catch my drift? It must have taken a mad long time to get the B.A.C.O.N system working.
 

Jujumasta

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
245
I hope the ball will spawn randomly, but the powers of the FSs are probably set to even out some characters' other moves.
 

the grim lizard

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
3,130
Yeah I know, its just that Id rather have more characters than a final smash for every character if you catch my drift? It must have taken a mad long time to get the B.A.C.O.N system working.
Assumptions: You know that saying? What does "assume" make out of "u" and "me"? Exactly.

I really don't think they "traded character" for a FS. Honestly, it would not be THAT hard to come up with SOMETHING for a character. And the animation is trivial. If you're upset about that, you must be REALLY upset at ATs...or heck, so upset at all that thought put into those Melee stages we never used...

Either you are way overestimating the time it takes for a FS or you are underestimating the the time it takes to make a brand-new character. Or maybe a combination of the two. Would you rather that no characters have B-moves either so that we could have even MORE characters?? I bet it takes even longer for them to think of four moves for each character. I'm thinking that Sakurai just looks at this as another move for each character.

Sarcasm aside...my point is that, there is no way of knowing--indeed, no reason to think that--they are having less characters in the game just because they have final smashes.
 

Superstar

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
2,351
Location
Miami, Florida
Actually, Dylan endorses Advanced Techs. However, this whole thing is from a misunderstanding of the development process.

For videogames, they tend to have a large development team. And that large development team is split into groups. However, I don't know how much its subdivided, it might be by roles [programmers, musicians, etc], or they could subdivide it further. In that essence, a group of people work on items, another work on character movesets, another works on Final Smashes, another work on stage design, another online, etc. However, there is limited resources in manpower, so creating final smashes would slow the development down, but not drastically. Remember how LOOONG those credit screen are.

However, I don't care for the final smashes. Might as well add them in. Most likely they will reuse Melee's engine [or parts of it] so some of the development was done the day they started. A good programmer never throws away precious code.
 

maxpower1227

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
1,443
Cross posted from another thread, pertaining to the theory that FS's can only be used once per match:

Ok, just a thought on Final Smashes in general...

The Final Smash is a secret skill that can be performed but once…and only after obtaining an item called the Smash Ball, which is a precious item, indeed.
Notice that this does NOT say "can be performed but once PER MATCH". I think it's far more realistic to assume that Sakurai means you can only perform a final smash one time for each time that you get a Smash Ball. In other words, once you pick up a Smash Ball, you only get to use the attack once, and don't get to do it again until you get ANOTHER Smash Ball.

Think about it. Say you play a stock 99 match (yes, I've actually done this ...), and you get a Smash Ball 3 minutes into the match. Do you really expect to have to play the entire rest of the match without one?

Or how about this scenario. You are in a 4 person FFA and you get the first Smash Ball. Now when the next one drops, is the game going to somehow prevent you from picking it up because you already had your "one Final Smash per match"? This just doesn't make sense at all. I think Sakurai's words are just being misinterpreted here and there is no "one Final Smash per character per match" limitation at all.
 

GeneralGore

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
9
They probably shouldn't have been added, but I don't think it will have a big effect on the game. They will probably be very rare items and can only be used once per game, so it's not like you are going to base your selection on their Final Smash.
 

Rash

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
974
Location
Massachusetts
They probably shouldn't have been added
Why?

I think having Final Smashes is neat, and adds depth to the characters of the game. Kind of like the super special moves from Marvel Vs. Capcom.

Yes, they may be easier to pull of than the consistent advanced techniques used by more pro-oriented players. But, to think that using them is just an easy replacement for what could have been a player-based advanced combo is silly. The Smash Balls aren't a guarantee of advantage. They're just in the game to make things interesting, to add depth to each character (as far as potential moves go), and to add more chaos to item-based matches and FFAs.

It will be fun using Final Smashes in the game, as I see it. Either being the one to use the FS, or the one to run from it, I don't see any way of not having fun when they are activated as items. In Smash Melee, no one I play with enjoys activating the hammer because it's a dull and overpowered weapon. It's hard to say that they will think the same for Final Smashes.
 

Takeshi245

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
2,051
Location
Ansonia, CT
I agree 100% with Mic_128.

I like the idea of the Final Smashes. People who play in tournaments will be able to turn it off so they should really stop whining and let those of us who want them have fun.
http://smashboards.com/member.php?u=7762http://smashboards.com/member.php?u=7762
It seems like your flamebaiting. Anyway, Final Smashes aren't a bad idea. It's nice for casual play. For the people that don't want it, there's probably going to be an item switch anyway so if you want to have fun without the Smash Ball because it just isn't working for you, then by all means, use it.
 

Bassoonist

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
4,684
NNID
WoodwindsRock
3DS FC
1032-1351-5240
Flame baiting?

Actually I was just stating my opinion. :ohwell:
 

Takeshi245

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
2,051
Location
Ansonia, CT
I can't edit my previous post. What I was trying to say was that the Smash Ball should say in regardless of what people say and they shouldn't be complaining because of the item switch. However, people can have fun even without the Smash Ball. That's it.
 

Jiangjunizzy

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
1,188
Location
irvine, CA
I dont think it should have been added at all. Its an intresting idea for an item but whoo boy coming up for one for EVERY character?

can you say waste of time? I can.

Because when you boil it down the final smash is a very pretty looking attack, that requires no skill to use.

I mean think about how many weeks/months went into all the final smashes and what it could have been spent on. A final smash involves grabbing a floating ball then putting your controller down and going to get a soda, or in the case of pikachus volt tackle, moving around the stick with one hand while having a cigarette.

Point being that these attacks are way too easy to do, in fact they're automatic, and they cause so much damage and take up so much time.

As a person who derives 90 percent of his video gaming pleasure from pure gameplay I can ignore how good the final smashes look and honnestly say I wish they didn't exist because of how little playing is involved in doing them.

wow. i hope sakurai completely changes smash brothers just so morons like this will stop playing
 

NinjaLink

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
3,785
Location
Brooklyn, NY
NNID
NinjaLink
Well Basically yea. It'll be fun with or without the items. Thing is professionally items wont be allowed due to chance. The Smash ball will most likely be overpowered(obviously it is). At first yea everyone will be using items including myself. But after that i will take them off Cause i plan to be one of the best at this game.
 

THK

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
469
Location
Margate, FL
NNID
TheRedKirby
3DS FC
1005-9416-8042
However, I don't care for the final smashes. Might as well add them in. Most likely they will reuse Melee's engine [or parts of it] so some of the development was done the day they started. A good programmer never throws away precious code.
From Sakurai's earlier words and from what I've seen. The Melee code is simply now a base. I can assure you the game will play and feel different.

Well Basically yea. It'll be fun with or without the items. Thing is professionally items wont be allowed due to chance. The Smash ball will most likely be overpowered(obviously it is). At first yea everyone will be using items including myself. But after that i will take them off Cause i plan to be one of the best at this game.
With the exception of Samus'. I see nothing overpowered about them. Mario's doesn't seem to be heavy on knockback and spreads out the further you are. Easy to avoid in a 1v1 situation. Be behind him, or directly in front of him. A simple roll or lengthy air dodge will save you. I haven't totally seen the in and outs of Link's, but it seems relatively easy to avoid since he shoots a triforce out to capture you. Pikachu's might be a little tricky to avoid, but it's certainly not as fast as quick attack so it's as simple as getting the hell out of the way until it wears off. Giga Bowser just results in a playable Giga Bowser, run like hell until it wears off.

With Samus it's hard to say, I don't know how fast the laser comes out, but you're safe if you're behind her.

Also you don't know if FSes are blockable or not.

I don't consider (non-boss) super moves to be overpowered in other fighting games, I don't expect them to be overpowered here.
 

THK

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
469
Location
Margate, FL
NNID
TheRedKirby
3DS FC
1005-9416-8042
I guess in the case of Pikachu. It's you vs who is controlling Pikachu. But I can't imagine Volt Tackle lasting longer than 2 seconds. 5 seconds tops.
 

Limey

Smash Fan
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 23, 2001
Messages
2,710
Location
Wales
I haven't read the thread, so apologies if i'm repeating anyone, but isn't the final smash activated by grabbing the icon? Therefore, if anybody didn't like the inclusion of them in the game they could just turn it off.
 

PrinnyFlute

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 20, 2007
Messages
331
Being concerned about the time/balance issues of something as major as Final Smashes is pretty regular. I'm sure there'll be enough skill involved in using them so as they add to the game as much as any other item.

Of course, for the people who are outright insulting Sakurai's decisions as designer (you know who you are,) how many god ****ed million-selling games have YOU made in your lifetime?
 

Bli33ard

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
432
Location
London, UK
With it being able to be used once per game, that's gotta be alright, surely. And hopefully the option for it to be turned off, too, for the true Smash experience.

I don't know what to make of it at this current moment in time. It looks like a neat feature, but is it really needed?
 

PrinnyFlute

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 20, 2007
Messages
331
With it being able to be used once per game, that's gotta be alright, surely. And hopefully the option for it to be turned off, too, for the true Smash experience.
Yeah, not only will you have to properly use it spatially, but since you've only got the one you'll have to wait for the absolute most opportune time to use it.

...Wait, 'true' Smash experience? I wouldn't call tourney rules the 'true' experience, I'd call it...the tourney experience. The options wouldn't be there if the game weren't meant to be played in a variety of ways. ;P
 

Got Blood?

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
1,278
FS is pretty cool.After your done with it,turn it off (presuming you will be able to do so.) It's just another item,except really cool.
 

Aeramis

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
609
Final smash for tournaments hopefully! All other items, no thanks.
Reasons the final smash should be allowed is everyone has a different one (more or less a part of their moveset) and they are 1 time use only which is fair which allows strat for using them.
Reasons it might not be allowed for tournaments would include it is an item meaning it spawns randomly around stage, they might be unavoidable, or some characters final smashes maybe way too overpowered thus unbalancing the game.
We will just have to wait till the game is out to really know for sure what should be allowed.
 

Aeramis

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
609
Hah, if any item is getting it tournament play Final Smash is definetely last on the list.
Could you give any reason to why you think the final smash would be "definetely last on the list" for tournament play? I still don't get why you feel so strongly against it.
 
Top Bottom