Final Smashes- Bad idea?

[BigRick]

Lol did people get so mad when there were super moves in street fighter alpha?

Super moves started in SF2 super turbo...

And Final Smashes are ripped off from Power Stone... so basically if you enjoyed them in that game you'll enjoy them in Smash Bros

 

[Superstar]

I've downloaded many, many videos of many pro matches in SSBM, yes.

And they don't look nearly as fun as the chaotic, off-the-wall matches that can be had in that game.

Hmm, at least you looked. Its just that we have different tastes. I am not as good as the people in those videos, but I sure wish I could be. I am unable to go to tournaments due to strict parents and lack of them anyway, so online will have to be my salvation to be properly 4-stocked. I don't know, techs are more fun performing them than watching them.

Even though I will turn off Final Smashes probably 95% of the time, they look pretty dang cool. Everyone has to admit to that.

 

[bluethree]

Imagine, they make a character weak, but with a powerful Final Smash. Though they would work well in an item setting, such a character is useless for tournaments.

Just like how Pichu and Mewtwo had their main advantages taken away when items were turned off. It almost definitely will happen

I've downloaded many, many videos of many pro matches in SSBM, yes.

And they don't look nearly as fun as the chaotic, off-the-wall matches that can be had in that game.

Different people have fun in different ways. Some people want to play a chaotic, anybody-can-win battle where anything can happen. Others have fun trying to see how good they can become at the game and testing their skills against other people.

 

[maxpower1227]

Even though I will turn off Final Smashes probably 95% of the time, they look pretty dang cool. Everyone has to admit to that.

Then why not just play with them? Is it THAT bad to lose a match due to random chance once in a while? It happens, but the game is so much more fun it's worth it. Unless you play hardcore for money, I don't see why you'd strip the game down like that.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I've downloaded many, many videos of many pro matches in SSBM, yes.

And they don't look nearly as fun as the chaotic, off-the-wall matches that can be had in that game.

Maybe they don't look as fun to you, but the matches compared to ''casual'' matches are played at a speed probably 15 times faster than the normal casual match due to every technique being used and SHFFLING done with extreme consistency.

To me a faster match is a funner match, so rather than camp for the hammer id rather fake you out than hit you with two shffled uairs and knee you in the groin. :D

The beauty of Smash is that it gives you the liberty of tailoring your play experience to the "hardcore" or "fun" types of matches. I'm a fan of both and my crew typically alternates between one and the other when we get together. In fact, hardcore players playing an insane "fun" match can sometimes be the best time you'll have with these games, in my opinion.

Amen. I agree with this guy ^^

Im not calling anyone a scrub for liking the final smash... that would be arrogant and stupid. A scrub thing to say would be something I heard in another thread

'' Final Smashes >>> advanced techniques''

which is just wrong purely because you can reuse your ''ADVANNNNCCCCCEEDDEDDDD'' techniques, where as the final smash is a one time per match thing.

Then why not just play with them? Is it THAT bad to lose a match due to random chance once in a while?

Yes. That's all I can say to that. I couldn't deal with losing to someone who I just throughly outpredicted, out mindgamesed out comboed just because they grabbed a floating orb.

 

[bluethree]

And because YOU don't like them, they are a waste of time.

Maybe if you'd have chosen different words, such as "I'd rather them spend the development time on something else" you'd be right. Something is not a waste of time if it'll bring enjoyment to most of their consumers.

 

[Superstar]

Then why not just play with them? Is it THAT bad to lose a match due to random chance once in a while? It happens, but the game is so much more fun it's worth it. Unless you play hardcore for money, I don't see why you'd strip the game down like that.

Actually, I play Hardcore for fun, and I would play hardcore for money if I:
A) Had money to actually bet [not rich, quite the opposite]
B) My parents would let me go to a tournament
C) Had a method of travel.
D) Had tournaments commonly around here...

I sorely hate luck, I've always lost from it. In Jungle Japes, 95% of the time the Klap Trap arrived when I was recovering. My brother always joked that the Klap Trap was waiting for me.

Also, Dylan, I think that person said that Finals were stronger than ATs, not more worth it, which helps with the argument that Finals are more overpowered. I don't say that finals are a bad addition, but I just won't use them often.

Also, in development teams, they have like +100 people, split into divisions, while one group do final smashes, another one finetunes the physics engine, while another creates characters, while another division creates music, and so on.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Do you like, have fun at all?

You seem so serious all the time. I can see why everyone tells you to calm down. I think you just need to view on the more beautiful things in life. Like flowers blooming and blue skies with funny shaped clouds.

Lol. 99.9999 perecent of my posts are made with a smile and a laugh. If you think I take these forums or the game seriously beyond my own life and my real passions like my instrument than you're just thick what can I say.

I'm a heavily opinionated dude but ive got a mad sense of humor and im actually really nice once you get to know me. The reason I get flamed all the time on these boards is people just plain take me too seriously.

Like that first post I made? Its my opinion, but its also flamebait, I love to see you guys react and you never fail me in that respect.

OMG ANGER ISSUES!11!!! priceless.

Also, Dylan, I think that person said that Finals were stronger than ATs, not more worth it

Nah he just plain said they were better. IMO Waveshining is way more overpowered than volt tackle. But at least it requires a little bit of time to practice before you can get its full benefits in a real match under pressure

THK, though I argee with you keeping the Final Smashes, you have to understand that Dylan doesn't have anger problems. I don't think he takes the internet seriously nor your comments to calm down. Though his comments may seem harsh, I'm sure he's pretty collected.

Sure, he thinks that the Smash Ball shouldn't be in there, but it doesn't change the fact it's going to be in there. Besides, I'm sure that there'll be an option to turn it off, anyway. No, Dylan, doesn't live on Smash. He just likes playing it competitively and doesn't like items so much. Well, this is all I got to say for now.

Fsho!

Its amazing how serious you think I am about all this. Yes, they are my opinions and Im gonna back them up but its not like there are tears streaming from my face everytime one of ya calls WDing a glitch or whatever.

You fall into your own trap when you take me seriously then actually respond with things like ''omg anger issuez'' or whatever because then YOU'RE taking the thread and my posts seriously, not vice versa!

*dissapears in a cloud of smoke*

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

Lol. 99.9999 perecent of my posts are made with a smile and a laugh. If you think I take these forums or the game seriously beyond my own life and my real passions like my instrument than you're just thick what can I say.

I'm a heavily opinionated dude but ive got a mad sense of humor and im actually really nice once you get to know me. The reason I get flamed all the time on these boards is people just plain take me too seriously.

Like that first post I made? Its my opinion, but its also flamebait, I love to see you guys react and you never fail me in that respect.

OMG ANGER ISSUES!11!!! priceless.



Nah he just plain said they were better. IMO Waveshining is way more overpowered than volt tackle. But at least it requires a little bit of time to practice before you can get its full benefits in a real match under pressure



Fsho!

Its amazing how serious you think I am about all this. Yes, they are my opinions and Im gonna back them up but its not like there are tears streaming from my face everytime one of ya calls WDing a glitch or whatever.

You fall into your own trap when you take me seriously then actually respond with things like ''omg anger issuez'' or whatever because then YOU'RE taking the thread and my posts seriously, not vice versa!

*dissapears in a cloud of smoke*

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH! You do it to get attention! That explains everything!

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH! You do it to get attention! That explains everything!

Do what? post my opinions? You're the people paying attention to me lol, Im always like this on teh intrawebz so its not like im trying to do something different to be popularz.

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

Do what? post my opinions? You're the people paying attention to me lol, Im always like this on teh intrawebz so its not like im trying to do something different to be popularz.

Well, i'm just saying, there is no purpose to be on the internet to just be a nuisance. And, i don't normally pay attention to anything you have to say, but after the tenth time seeing you acting stupid i just wanted to let you know thats what your letting people veiw you. Now I'm done giving you your hard-earned attention. Bye.

 

[maxpower1227]

I mean Final Smashes and hammers are pretty much the same thing. Theres probably a way to avoid the FS just like the hammer, but they both require no skill to use and give you a way unfair advantage. To me, thats not what smashbros is about.

What? Hammers take skill to use well, and they take even more skill to avoid. It's actually entirely possible to defeat somebody who has a hammer. Maybe if you ever played with items you could develop that skill.

You seem to think that playing with items completely throws skill out the window, and that's completely untrue. It takes skill to know how to successfully use items and defend against them. It's a lot of the fun of playing Smash.

Yes. That's all I can say to that. I couldn't deal with losing to someone who I just throughly outpredicted, out mindgamesed out comboed just because they grabbed a floating orb.

Then that's pretty sad. Do you have problems being a gracious loser? I only ask because I actually do have some problems with that, and even *I* can deal with losing a smash bros match because of some random and/or hilarious chance occurrence. Geez.

 

[Superstar]

Hammers don't take skill to use, take INCREDIBLE skill to avoid, and take little skill to get. In the past when I did play with items, I would try ranging Mario's F-Smash to topple the beast, but still I don't like hammers. And last I noticed, you seemed to say fun =/= skill, so why do you say its skillful to use item?

And smash orbs are random, that's why I don't like them. Just being random and powerful throw skill out the window. The Arwings in Corneria are random, but pathetic so that stage is still allowed. Also, would you like losing cash due to a luck factor, I think not.

However, this topic is about Final Smashes, which I still think are stupid to use in a serious match, but good to use when you kick back and need more variety.

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

Hammers don't take skill to use, take INCREDIBLE skill to avoid, and take little skill to get. In the past when I did play with items, I would try ranging Mario's F-Smash to topple the beast, but still I don't like hammers. And last I noticed, you seemed to say fun =/= skill, so why do you say its skillful to use item?

And smash orbs are random, that's why I don't like them. Just being random and powerful throw skill out the window. The Arwings in Corneria are random, but pathetic so that stage is still allowed. Also, would you like losing cash due to a luck factor, I think not.

However, this topic is about Final Smashes, which I still think are stupid to use in a serious match, but good to use when you kick back and need more variety.

With items it doesn't take skill, but is needed if you want to use it properly.

 

[maxpower1227]

I've defeated people who had hammers when I was unarmed myself. It can be done....

And of course I'm not advocating the use of hammers in matches for money. But certainly not every match you play is for money.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I've defeated people who had hammers when I was unarmed myself. It can be done....

And of course I'm not advocating the use of hammers in matches for money. But certainly not every match you play is for money.

Dude Ive been playing smash since it came out. You think I just magically started playing by the proper rules?

Heck no, in ssb64 I always played with items till recently, but the rule being you had to throw them when I played with people and no hammers or stars.

WAYY back in the day like... 8 years ago I used to play vs CPUS and yes I know how to attack someone who has a hammer, trust me it's a lot easier than perfect shffling in melee.

No not every match I play is for money, but stakes dont determine the rules for me. I play without items becuase I LIKE IT THAT WAY. I actually ENJOY myself. when items were on Id get bored in 2-3 hours...

with items off I can play 10 hours straight and really improve every smashfest I have with my crew.

Then that's pretty sad. Do you have problems being a gracious loser? I only ask because I actually do have some problems with that, and even *I* can deal with losing a smash bros match because of some random and/or hilarious chance occurrence. Geez.

Nope, quite the opposite. Im veryyyyy grateful to play anyone who can own me in smash and will thank them for the opportunity to help me improve by playing someone better than me.

But if im playing some nubcake and he grabs a hammer...

oh wait that wont happen because I dont play with nubcakes and I dont play with hammers.

So to answer your question, no Im not a sore loser in smash, ever. I hate sore losers.

 

[Superstar]

But what about when people train for those matches. Playing with items gets you out of shape for the money matches, and its more fun for the competitive crowd to not ever use items anyways. And yes, I have beaten hammers, and because of luck I was almost always in the worst place possible when it comes to beating hammers [like right on top of a platform...].

And yes, Meta, items do take some skills to use "properly" , but the skill required is not as great as when items are off. And luck appears as an extra factor to bite you in the behind, so to that, items [including finals] OFF on my game system, I'm happier without them.

The Final Smashes saving grace for competitive players is the glorious off switch, the shining beacon in the sea of items.

 

[maxpower1227]

But what about when people train for those matches. Playing with items gets you out of shape for the money matches, and its more fun for the competitive crowd to not ever use items anyways.

Well, all I can say is I'm glad Smash is a hobby for me, and not a job.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Well, all I can say is I'm glad Smash is a hobby for me, and not a job.

You're flamebaiting. And you know it. Im not even going to dignify what you just said with a reaction.

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

Well, all I can say is I'm glad Smash is a hobby for me, and not a job.

Well, actually i would love to be good enough and able to go to tournemants to get money on the side.

 

[Flare233]

I for one hope that Final Smash orbs or whatever always appear in a certain spot on each stage. That way I think they would be allowed in tournaments. I don't want Brawl tournaments to just be Melee 2.0, I want to see the frickin Final Smashes!

Look at this picture. It looks like the smash ball is in the center of the stage almost exactly where the breakable platform USED to be. Something tells me these won't appear like normal items (randomly).

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I for one hope that Final Smash orbs or whatever always appear in a certain spot on each stage. That way I think they would be allowed in tournaments. I don't want Brawl tournaments to just be Melee 2.0, I want to see the frickin Final Smashes!

I highly doubt even if they appear in a fixed location that something as obviously broken as the FS would make it into tournament play. Or any ITEM for that matter.

But I hope they appear in a fixed spot aswell, that way Id consider playing with them in friendlies.

 

[Flare233]

Well regardless if FS are broken or not, I think that having them in a set location can be very good strategically. For example, If someone is camping near the FS spawn point, and obviously is desperate to get it, they are letting their guard down and are open for an attack. Kind of like a double-edged sword. Consequentially, if they get hit, the other player is then going be able to grab the FS and use it against them.

Some people in the item thread have suggested that maybe it could spawn in a set location where you wouldn't want to go, such as under a stage or in a lava pit.

 

[Viroxor]

You don't even know how many times that kind of stuff killed me in Megaman X.

Me: GIVE ME THE HEART TANK, YOU CUR!
Game: Haha, go and get it!
*Heart tank is under stage, right above lava*
Me: Nnnnooooo!

 

[GreenKirby]

I for one hope that Final Smash orbs or whatever always appear in a certain spot on each stage. That way I think they would be allowed in tournaments. I don't want Brawl tournaments to just be Melee 2.0, I want to see the frickin Final Smashes!

Look at this picture. It looks like the smash ball is in the center of the stage almost exactly where the breakable platform USED to be. Something tells me these won't appear like normal items (randomly).

I hope they appear randomly. If they appear in the center, everyone would be hanging around and waiting for it to appear.

 

[Flare233]

True, but you can't just sit there and wait without getting attacked. Sorry for not being traditional but I think it would add another layer of depth to the competitive scene.

 

[Superstar]

Final Smashes are made for more casual players anyways, so why not have them random, and take them off in tournament play. Random makes it more hectic, which is what the Final Smash is supposed to do. I think the competitive game has enough layers to already be good, the only thing needed to refresh Melee are new stages, new characters, and *gulp* new physics [to an extent] as well.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

There fine, cause you can turn them off if you don't like them.

 

[GreenKirby]

True, but you can't just sit there and wait without getting attacked. Sorry for not being traditional but I think it would add another layer of depth to the competitive scene.

Personally I think it should work like this:

You know how most get Final Smash-esque like attack when rack up a lot of comboes? I was think it should be like that in Brawl. For everytime you make a consectutive hit, that's consider a combo usually. The more consectutive hits you make, the better the combo. If you make more consectutive hit combos points or w/e, than anyone else, the Smash Orb should closest to that player, but not too close so that other players will have a chance to get it.

 

[Flare233]

That's a good idea. That would be kind of like the super build-up meters in Street Fighter and various other Capcom games. Then maybe people at EVO would be even more accepting of Smash!

 

[AtticusFinch]

Well, I can't really tell if smash orbs are a good thing or a bad thing, I mean you can't really tell until you play the game. I would like to play with it when we play for fun, like free for alls, and two on two friendlys, but in competative play, not so much.

I mean, it's not really wise to put up money on a game with a item tha can make or brake a match.

 

[TaikaAli]

I can understand people who say bad things about Dylan because he flames always everything and sometimes it annoys me too, BUT.
Why the hell does people say like "You have no fun when you play melee!"
Some people just LOVE to play smash without items and with balance stages.
I mean where did you got the idea that he dosent have fun playing melee? Some people find items and random things fun, like me sometimes, but about 80% of time i play with no items and only tournament stages to really try to get better and actually call myself a good player one day.

And the idea of this thread is pretty pointless because we can just turn them off if you dont like em. Impossible to know which move is better than other or how they will be blocked or dodged.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Why the hell does people say like "You have no fun when you play melee!"

Because I don't. I am forced to play SSBM all day while Chudat and Ken whip me

 

[WhiteZER0]

Well, I can't really tell if smash orbs are a good thing or a bad thing, I mean you can't really tell until you play the game. I would like to play with it when we play for fun, like free for alls, and two on two friendlys, but in competative play, not so much.

I mean, it's not really wise to put up money on a game with a item tha can make or brake a match.

That line in bold is SERIOUSLY getting old and clichéd here. And no, I'm not directing this at you Atticus, so just disregard this as a flame (becuase I hate flaming, myself XD). We cannot tell if this thing can make or break a match/game, because we have not played it. We cannot really make to many judgements on this FS, until we use it. I'm not saying we can't make positive/negative speculation about it, but actually SAYING that it will do SOMETHING means nothing at the moment, because we have not experienced it yet.

All in all, I'm just saying to be to harsh, or to happy with it, until we know some more facts about thiese FS's. That's all I have to say.

...actually, no it's not, but i'm to lazy to post it all right now XD

 

[Flare233]

I think that pointing out that a phrase is cliche as to disregard it's meaning is getting old and cliche itself. Heh. I just did it too.

 

[goateeguy]

my main concern for FSes is that they might be integrated with the gameplay and thus non-turnoffable. (man i love ignoring every english rule i learned last year). i mean, why else would they suddenly make all these characters with wings who can jump repeatedly? i think they're compensating for more devastating attacks, meaning FSes. and BTW, volt tackle is not weak. it moves fast (maybe faster than people can move) and did u see what it did to kirby in the 15-second movie on dojo?

Quote myself: "I don't want brawl to be like 'must use my char's speed to get to pwnage item first!'"

 

[Shoushi_12]

During the 15 second trailer - I've noticed that when Pikachu unleashed his FS, the camera zoomed in quite a bit. Now, that could be a problem.
I mean - how exactly would that effect the gameplay ? It looks like it could be a nuisance if you ask me.

~ Late ~

 

[Star105]

Also it looks like the FS can be avoided (very hard i guess)
it also looks like pikachus final smash attack is very strong since from the trailer DK seemed to just come down before he was KO'ed again ( i really don't know if im right but i think i am)

It seems like a great idea since you can turn them off and they seem to rely on skill and power( to a finite degree).

 

[THK]

Lol. 99.9999 perecent of my posts are made with a smile and a laugh. If you think I take these forums or the game seriously beyond my own life and my real passions like my instrument than you're just thick what can I say.

I'm a heavily opinionated dude but ive got a mad sense of humor and im actually really nice once you get to know me. The reason I get flamed all the time on these boards is people just plain take me too seriously.

Like that first post I made? Its my opinion, but its also flamebait, I love to see you guys react and you never fail me in that respect.

OMG ANGER ISSUES!11!!! priceless.

Personally I'm just screwing with you. You should be less predictable in your responses though. That whole "I DO IT FOR THE LULZ" is getting tired.


As for the current subjects of items. I personally think there's a large difference between playing with items and playing with a RELIANCE on items. I think learning how to play with and without items is better than just playing without. It really helped my shielding, powershielding, catching and overall reflexes. Luck is a factor in everything you do no matter which way you slice it.

Heck the only reason I generally play with items off is the same reason they were removed from tournaments entirely. Spot explosions.

And I still do NOT think Final Smashes are a gamebreaker. And for the fellow that said it's similar to Power Stone. A transformed character wasn't as deadly as you think. Just basically dodge, get close and grab. Two grabs break the transformation.

 

[BigRick]

Personally I think it should work like this:

You know how most get Final Smash-esque like attack when rack up a lot of comboes? I was think it should be like that in Brawl. For everytime you make a consectutive hit, that's consider a combo usually. The more consectutive hits you make, the better the combo. If you make more consectutive hit combos points or w/e, than anyone else, the Smash Orb should closest to that player, but not too close so that other players will have a chance to get it.

That will be unfair cause sum chars aren't made to combo.

Well regardless if FS are broken or not, I think that having them in a set location can be very good strategically. For example, If someone is camping near the FS spawn point, and obviously is desperate to get it, they are letting their guard down and are open for an attack. Kind of like a double-edged sword. Consequentially, if they get hit, the other player is then going be able to grab the FS and use it against them.

Some people in the item thread have suggested that maybe it could spawn in a set location where you wouldn't want to go, such as under a stage or in a lava pit.

Many FPSes basically follow the same concept... since ppl know where the item spawns the slower chars have more chances to get the item through camping... however, a camper is easily spotted and puts himself in danger because others will try to take him out.

In that case, Final Smashes don't really change the outcome of a match because you have to fight for it. The better player will win these battles more often, thus getting the item more often. It's kinda like in Halo sum ppl ask themselves ''why dis dude always has the sniper''

I like to answer them ''cause he kicks yo butt without it''

And I still do NOT think Final Smashes are a gamebreaker. And for the fellow that said it's similar to Power Stone. A transformed character wasn't as deadly as you think. Just basically dodge, get close and grab. Two grabs break the transformation.

I also think like so. Most, if not all, Final Smashes can probably be blocked and stuff, so they'll be less effective in a 1v1 setting and they'll probably have to be comboed into.

Btw, when I talked about Power Stone, I meant more like Power Stone 2... in a FFA setting it's becomes harder to deal with sum1's super because you have 2 other guys to worry about.