Final Fantasy VII: Mafia [GAME OVER]

[mentosman8]

I'm still hesitant to vote Hando over you Riddle. I've seen him play this way as pretty much every alignment, so his playstyle has not really stood out as a reason to lynch him yet, and he hasn't done anything particularly scummy whereas you have a couple strikes against you.

 

[Riddle]

Cool story, bro.

Good contribution, scum.

 

[KevinM]

go town.

 

[Omis]

We completely have enough time to lynch HAndo now. Hando you are not contributing to town play at all. You have been coasting at all, joining almost every bandwagon sometimes without any reason at all and coasting heavily. You made several posts about game mecahnics back before the daykill but you made absolutely none about the game whatsoever. You are majorly scummy for coasting and you are a huge detriment to town.

This is just plain wrong. I will not accept how you are taking Kevin's death as a good thing that allows you to kill another townie. You seemed unreasonably against us and now you are taking this death as an extra way for you to eliminate someone. Bad move Scumdiddle
Vote: Hando

I had a huge post written but then Tom locked the thread and ninja'd me. It was about lynching Omis but Kevin's death and our considerable extra time have made things change. I no longer want to see Omis lynched and would much prefer to lynch Hando at this point. If you guys want to see it than I will post it, however much of it no longer applies.

Attempts to make it seem like you were about to actively contribute against me which is what everyone said you were lacking. Nice coverup scum. Post that post. Right now. Do it.

Ahdno can't be allowed to live. I know I have made some scummy mistakes but I have at least been of some help to town. All HAndo has done however is coast and contribute absolutely nothing. And join every bandwagon as well.
You are scum and scum is very little help

Ive been against you for a while but I dont vote people while being attacked. Now that only an idiot would be against me I feel free to get rid of you.
Vote Riddle

 

[Omni]

just kill riddle

 

[Chaco]

Riddle, I told you it's probably the best option to ignore Hando. You clearly didn't listen, and as unhelpful as he is, I honestly think you're scum. You keep mentioning your mistakes. Let them go, get them off of your shoulders, and play the game. Continuing to do so makes you as much of a hindrance as Hando.

Vote: Riddle

 

[Riddle]

Riddle, I told you it's probably the best option to ignore Hando. You clearly didn't listen, and as unhelpful as he is, I honestly think you're scum. You keep mentioning your mistakes. Let them go, get them off of your shoulders, and play the game. Continuing to do so makes you as much of a hindrance as Hando.

Vote: Riddle

I don't think it is the best option to ignore Hando. Hando is acting scummy and I can't just let that go. The only reason I keep mentioning mistakes is because I keep getting voted for them. However, if you guys want to lynch me than continue to vote me. However, when I flip town I would hope you look at my suspicions.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

No Hando is acting like Hando. You on the other hand, are acting scummy.

vote: Riddle

 

[Chaco]

I said ignore Hando for today, not for good.

 

[Omni]

****it, wait guys. im starting to get 2nd thoughts.

why would mafia kill kevin? the first thing that comes to mind is to setup Riddle. kevin was Riddle's #1 suspect because he felt that omis was cleared. it would look really bad if Kevin turned up dead after his accusations on riddle. the 2nd part obviously is to break up the mason. it kills two birds with one stone

i know that in part is is wifom but i cant shrug the feeling that this is a trap

 

[DtJ Jungle]

You assume that mafia made this kill? I don't know many set ups where mafia gets day kills (dunno if theres more) in addition to Night kills.

 

[Omni]

i assumed it was a Mafia Kill because Tifa was approached by Sephiroth in the flavor before dying. jungle, do you really think that a vanilla vig shot Kevin? if so, why? i highly doubt it because Kevin just mentioned he was in a mason with omis. i dont believe vanilla would have a vig this stupid on their side.

 

[Omni]

actually, i'm curious

jungle, why would you think that mafia WASNT responsible for this kill? is it only based on the fact that u dont think Tom would include that in the setup cuz i wouldnt put anything past tom

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I think it's highly highly possible it was an SK.

 

[Omni]

I think it's highly highly possible it was an SK.

why would you believe this was an SK daykill as opposed to vanilla or mafia daykill

 

[Handorin]

Yes, children, listen and learn from my bad example. Don't become one of me until you can become one with the scum.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I didn't think a vig would be that stupid unless they really believed that Kev was lying, but i agree taht could very well be plausible and i over looked it. Even so, it would be a stupid play on their part.

I'm only saying I don't believe it's a mafia daykill because I've never heard of such a thing. Of course, that doesn't mean it can't exist, but I believe the other two options are just more likely.

 

[Rockin]

Nooooo...Tifa D: My fanboy side died.

With KevinM coming up as a townie, you seem to quickly switch targets on someone Riddle. Thought you'd at least discuss the death or the flavor of it before going after someone. Prettttty hasty there >>

****it, wait guys. im starting to get 2nd thoughts.

why would mafia kill kevin? the first thing that comes to mind is to setup Riddle. kevin was Riddle's #1 suspect because he felt that omis was cleared. it would look really bad if Kevin turned up dead after his accusations on riddle. the 2nd part obviously is to break up the mason. it kills two birds with one stone

i know that in part is is wifom but i cant shrug the feeling that this is a trap

Why would it even be mafia? I'm sure it was by a vig, however I understand if people think it was by a mafia.

I believe person who killed Kevin wanted to go and confirm if the masonary was true. KevinM was fighting pretty hard for mainly Omis. It could also be the fact they wanted to kill off Omis' stronger player (assuming they were both mafs), but that's still not really possible. >>

i assumed it was a Mafia Kill because Tifa was approached by Sephiroth in the flavor before dying. jungle, do you really think that a vanilla vig shot Kevin? if so, why? i highly doubt it because Kevin just mentioned he was in a mason with omis. i dont believe vanilla would have a vig this stupid on their side.

Omni, don't look at the flavor too hard. Think of the content in general and reason as to why KevinM was a target.

Anyway, I feel this could've been done by a vig. It'd be kinda broken for Maf to have a day AND Night kill, unless Tom found some way to balance this. This could also possibly be done by an SK as well (I mean, we didn't really have a kill on D2 unless KevinM roleblocked seph). Again, like someone mentioned, I can't imagine Maf or SK really day killing, so this could be a maf. I mean, Sephiroth was a No. 1 legendary soldier. Makes sense in my book

I want to vote on Riddle, but I want to hold off for a few minutes. Omis is pretty much cleared in my book. Also want to hear what Hando has to say about this, cause he was one of the others who was after Omis.

 

[mentosman8]

To Omni, scum having a daykill is highly, highly unlikely. Mafia has their night kill. The only role I've heard of for mafia that can have a daykill is an executioner, which requires the person to have L/2 votes to do. Mafia that can kill their choice at any time day or night(even if it's just 1 kill) is highly overpowered, and I highly doubt Tom would include something that unbalanced.

 

[mentosman8]

Also, Rockin, a daykilling SK is much more possible than mafia, I've seen that before and seen it work. Mafia with day and nightkill=not likely, SK with daykills=more likely, vig with daykill=maybe a bit more likely than SK but if so ********. I feel this was the work of the SK personally(I was ninja'd and felt the need to add that)

 

[Rockin]

Also, Rockin, a daykilling SK is much more possible than mafia, I've seen that before and seen it work. Mafia with day and nightkill=not likely, SK with daykills=more likely, vig with daykill=maybe a bit more likely than SK but if so ********. I feel this was the work of the SK personally(I was ninja'd and felt the need to add that)

Really? (in terms of a day killing SK)

I didn't really know. I thought they only kill in the Night time. Question, do Daykill SKs always kill in the day time or is it a one time effect? How does the ruleset for that work exactly?

 

[Chaco]

Yeah, Im feeling Daykilling SK. But I find that timing odd, and why would it extend the day?

 

[Chaco]

Wait, wait, wait. Tom said a day "event" was triggered. I'm gonna read back.

 

[Rockin]

Yeah, Im feeling Daykilling SK. But I find that timing odd, and why would it extend the day?

Pretty sure it had to do with business at his end.

 

[Chaco]

If so, he can answer that.

Tom, was it?

 

[mentosman8]

Yeah, I definitely think that's why it extended. And Rockin, the rules for daykilling SK's vary from mod to mod I believe. I've heard of some that can only kill during day, some that can choose day/night out of the given day number. Rulesets also very between mods, sometimes doc protection covers day/night, sometimes they're free to kill without worry of the doc in the day. I'm not sure which would be in the game, but it would be extremely unbalanced from the mafia, and any vig who shoots not just a claimed mason, but the stronger of a the pair of claimed masons is just flat out an idiot, so the only thing I can really see being the likely scenario is some form of daykilling SK

 

[Omni]

I didn't think a vig would be that stupid unless they really believed that Kev was lying, but i agree taht could very well be plausible and i over looked it. Even so, it would be a stupid play on their part.

I'm only saying I don't believe it's a mafia daykill because I've never heard of such a thing. Of course, that doesn't mean it can't exist, but I believe the other two options are just more likely.

i would rather not lean on the possibility that kevin's death was done by a stupid townie. i can also understand that a mafia daykill on top of being able to lynch would be hard to foresee and problematic if it were the case.

my issue is that if the death of kevin was done by an sk why would this only occur as of D2 and not D1? also, my point still stands that Tifa did truly encounter Sephiroth before she was killed. lastly, nearly all sk's kill their victims in a very bloody way usually by being slashed to death. this helps players to distinguish the difference between a mafia kill and an SK. given all these facts i do not think that kevin was killed by an sk, but in fact, mafia.

this however all lies in the fact that i believe sephiroth is scum. unfortunately, there is also a good chance that sephiroth can also be an sk based on his character. i won't make any deductions since this would all be mindless metagaming.

i really think we all need to take a step back and reapproach this from a different angle. a riddle lynch just does NOT seem right. we're missing something very obvious and i truly do believe that this entire time that we've been arguing amongst ourselves while mafia makes soft pushes.

since we have a much extended deadline, i want to change the subject from riddle all together and focus on all the inactive players. right now i feel there are too many players who are riding it easy while all the active players are caught in their own web. i want to hear more from hando, marshy, chill, jungle, and a few others. if the game were to end for any reason today i would not be surprised that these coasters would flip scum.

i do believe we're being deceived and need to reevaluate this "obvious" lynch on Riddle.

 

[Omni]

oh and before i forget

fos: rockin

 

[Tom]

If so, he can answer that.

Tom, was it?

Deadline was extended due to a game mechanic. However, it is also true that I was away this weekend, and that is the reason why the thread was locked for 24 hours.

 

[Chaco]

Thanks, what I thought.

 

[Rockin]

oh and before i forget

fos: rockin

What's the fos for? >>

my issue is that if the death of kevin was done by an sk why would this only occur as of D2 and not D1? also, my point still stands that Tifa did truly encounter Sephiroth before she was killed. lastly, nearly all sk's kill their victims in a very bloody way usually by being slashed to death. this helps players to distinguish the difference between a mafia kill and an SK. given all these facts i do not think that kevin was killed by an sk, but in fact, mafia.

Again, I really feel you're focusing on the flavor slightly too hard. It wouldn't matter too much as how the person died. Remember, it's just flavor. The main thing at hand is that 1) Someone daykilled KevinM. 2)We need to find out the reason 3)Also try to find out who done it.

 

[Riddle]

Nooooo...Tifa D: My fanboy side died.

With KevinM coming up as a townie, you seem to quickly switch targets on someone Riddle. Thought you'd at least discuss the death or the flavor of it before going after someone. Prettttty hasty there >>

As I stated all day before the action I felt Hando was more scummy than Omis. However, we simply had no time to lynch Hando and Omis wasn't clear at the time. Now Omis is almost 100% clear and we have a couple of days to lynch HAndo. I have actually been going for Hando for quite a while though. I have now heard from a number of people that this is how Hando plays. I have never been in a game with Hando (BIM maybe? I don't remember) and before the Kevin kill only a few people were saying that while some seemed to agree with me about Hando's scumminess. I guess I will Unvote for now. The bandwagon is not going anywhere and now I've heard from a majority of people that this is how Hando plays. Sucks when he is town and is convenient when he is Scum though.

Riddle, he very well could have a third mason in the closed masonry. Don't speculate it. Does it mean he does? No. Does it mean he doesn't? No. Do we need to talk about it, seeing as how it is irrelevant at this time? No. I hate, hate, hate when people speculate into roles like that. Not saying you're doing it a lot, but you are a bit.

I realize now that I was wrong about there being 3 in the masonry. The reson I thought that was because Kevin said his 'partners' made stupid plays. But he meant his 'pratner has'. That is the only reason I thought there were more than 2 in the masonry.

And I do agree with your "philosophy". The way Kevin played on D1 was rivaling just that. He was bent on making a stronger "D2 Lynch Team" . He has changed it up a bit, and I'm glad he isn't doing it as much. However, I do believe people are on you because they think you are scum. Not just because you're new.

I also don't think people are voting me because I'm new. People know what I'm capable of and I don't even consider myself new anymore. My point (and Ronike's I think) is that people are just excusing HAndo's behavior because he isn't new which is just simply unacceptable.

Also, I feel Hando is purposely playing like that. Best advice is to just ignore him for now, I'm feeling a bit of "Indyana Jones" vibe from him again.

My point exactly. We can't just ignore people playing scummily like Hando. I've seen Hando play much better than this and so he clearly has the capabilities. He has been making a ton of completely useless posts lately and it is simply unacceptable. I'm completely happy with a Hando lynch at this point and if people start voting him and envote me/Omis I will very happily join in. However, I can't afford to take my vote off of Omis or I will be lynched at this point. Omni, Ronike, and I at least all find HAndo very scummy and so I honestly feel that we have a chance of getting him lynched to day, but probably not. However, if I live until tomorrow he will be my number 1 target.


I just feel that every single suspicion of me is a null-tell. Every scummy thing I have done would be equally ridiculous from a town or scum view point. None of my mistakes have benfitted scum in any way. People keep saying that there is no reason that town would do what I have done, but scum wouldn't either. I realize this is a whole bunch of WIFOM, but so is all of your cases!

The only point that I see as legit brought up against me is the fact that I want to lynch a claimed mason. However, I can explain this. Omis comes into Day 2 having not contributed at all. He then proceeds to specualate upon MCFox's kill and coast. This is noticed and people begin to vote him. HE then becomes much more active but still doesn't really defend himself all that much. Eventually the spotlight comes on to me. I am attacked by the town/scum and I actually defend myself. Now that I look like the better lynch target Omis stops posting. People continue to vote for me for a multitude of reasons (or no rason at all if you look at Hando's vote) and Omis stops posting. Then, we reach a deadlock between Omis and me. At this point KEvin claims for Omis (why couldn't he claim for himself?). Specualtion comes to the forefront about whether Omis is a scum-alligned mason or not and some people including me continue to suspect Omis more. Omis still doesn't defend himself and so Kevin does it for him yet again.

Now here we are and Omis has yet to contribute anything at all and yet I am the main lynch target? What can we lose by lynching Omis? Not that much in my opinion. However, what can we gain? We could gain a scum-lynch or even information about Kevin but the point remains that Omis is a relatively safe lynch.

Now lets look at my possible lynch. What can we lose by lynching me? A townie that has helped discussion, been relatively active, and is actively scum-hunting. What can you gain? Well from my point of view, nothing. However, from your point of view you guys could gain a scum lynch and you guys can draw some connections between Omni, mentos, and me or something like that.

The lynch seems pretty clear to me.





@Jungle I would really rather avoid claiming but if I get put at L-1 I cand and will. However, it is not in town's favor and if it is unavoidable then I will most certainly claim.

 

[Chaco]

I gotta say, not all of our cases on you are WIFOM. Actually, quite a bit of that post has WIFOM in it.

Anyways, time for some question at Riddle only:

You say Omis is cleared now, correct?
Where did your accusation of scum mason go? You seemed pretty positive.
Was it a mean to draw attention away from yourself?
Would you even admit to it, if it was?

Now, Riddle, i feel you should claim. That's just my take on the situation though. If we're making a mistake, give us something more to go on, please. We do not need to wait until hours before a deadline to have you claim. A claim from you is almost inevitable. So do it while we have time to safely switch targets, and not pull a lynch out of thin air. This extra time is a good thing, let's please try to use it.

 

[Omni]

I want to do a full name claim.

 

[Ronike]

There's no point in doing one this late in the day Omni. With so little time left, scum could pass off inactivity legitimately, which would bring it to night, allowing them possible well targeted kills, plus more time to come up with fake claim. If we are gonna do one, it should be first thing in a day.

I don't agree tho, more later

 

[Omni]

There 5 days left, ronike. There is plenty of time.

I really think a full nameclaim is beneficial at this point.

On iPhone. More later.

 

[Riddle]

I gotta say, not all of our cases on you are WIFOM. Actually, quite a bit of that post has WIFOM in it.

Anyways, time for some question at Riddle only:

You say Omis is cleared now, correct?
Where did your accusation of scum mason go? You seemed pretty positive.
Was it a mean to draw attention away from yourself?
Would you even admit to it, if it was?

Now, Riddle, i feel you should claim. That's just my take on the situation though. If we're making a mistake, give us something more to go on, please. We do not need to wait until hours before a deadline to have you claim. A claim from you is almost inevitable. So do it while we have time to safely switch targets, and not pull a lynch out of thin air. This extra time is a good thing, let's please try to use it.

I agree that a lot of my post was WIFOM. That is because the only way to defend against WIFOM is WIFOM of your own.

1) Correct
2) My initial opinion was scum mason. However, Kevin seemd very convinced that Omis was not scum mason. That led me to believe that they were one of two things. Either scum partners or mason partners. Kevin's death narrows it doesn to one...
3)I don't understand this question. do you mean "Was it meant to draw attention away from yourself?" and if you do mean this what doe you mean by "it".
4) Same as number 3.

You guys are making a mistake and I will nameclaim if more people post there support of it. I do not feel that it is town's best interest for me to roleclaim right now however. If I am forced to roleclaim though I will also do that. I agree that more time is agood thing, however I have wanted a Hando lynch since mid to late Day 2. It is in no way pulled from thin air.

 

[Ronike]

A) For the rest of the day, a full name claim would take any focus off of Riddle and Hando (or any other potential lynch targets), and instead place focus on the names, which aren't necessarily accurate.

B) Setup time for an organized name claim is time consuming. Its easy to just say "Let's all name claim!", but then scum can manipulate to claim late, so as to not risk a CC. The way it should be done is everyone formally says who they would like to claim first, with those with the most points going first, and those with the least going last. That takes at least two days to setup, if not more, which gives scum time to create a reason to be inactive for three days, which is allowed for the rules, bringing us to night with no extra info for us, and tons for the scum.

C) Let's say we do manage to get everyone to claim by the deadline. What are we left with? One, maybe two, at absolute max 3 days to formulate a new lynch. Which as time has told, is not enough time. Plus, mafia claims won't neccesarily be accurate. Therefore, again mafia gets more info, and we don't get extra info.

D) MAFIA PROBABLY WILL GAIN MUCH MORE USEFUL INFO THAN US! It could still be worth the effort, however we would need to organize it some way so that scum could get forced into a CC. I can't stress that enough.

It could be a good idea to claim tomorrow, but not today.

 

[Chaco]

That makes no sense, lol.

3) What I mean by it is what you said. And it is by accusing Omis of being a scum mason.

I meant a thin air lynch from all of the town. If we're going to change lynch targets we need more than a few hours. So I think it best if you claim sometime today or tomorrow.

Omni, no. A nameclaim is not a good idea on D2.

 

[Omni]

I still think a nameclaim now would be ideal.

Riddle, please so not claim if you think it is a bad idea.

We need to keep Riddle alive. He is way more useful than alot of people here.

I think we should either kill Hando toDay or do a no lynch. Then do name claims toMorrow.