Final Fantasy VII: Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Handorin]

Anything new you guys have figured out about me, or will it just keep being the same old?

 

[Rockin]

i still dont understand why no one cares to apply any kind of pressure on Hando. rather, a few certain select people are chalking up Hando's play to "this is how Hando" plays. that's bs considering the fact that regardless if this is Hando's play or not it is unhelpful. also, if hando has been working under Rule #1 for the past few games and his playstyle is consistently the same why does this not make him look more suspicious?

I seen how hando plays from time to time, but unlike what others say in terms of him playing the same way, Hando actually plays -differently- in each game (at least, that's what he says.) He says he always changes to a different game style so as to make him harder to read. There are times, when like this, he either comes up Mafia or Town. Is his playstyle helpful? Usually they don't (especially when he lurks).

Even now, I could never get a pinpoint on him and how he thinks. He contributes, but only little. I've been watching him since Day 1 and really, I don't believe I have a huge legit reason of voting him.

Chaco, while it's understandable that we should always consider everything, you should also know that if a person doesn't like something, there's about a very good chance that thing will not be seen in that game. If Tom doesn't like jesters, then he doesn't. Would this mean that there'll be any jesters in his maf games? Very unlikely. Everyone who mods a Maf game wants their players to have fun with that said game, as well as the mod himself having fun. No need to add in a role you dislike. I could try and name other examples, but I currently can't.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure there isn't a jester in this game.

Riddle - Even if that is a honest mistake, you should really limit yourself from it, otherwise it'll be harder for us to really believe you're town. I understand your last one was a honest mistake, but please check your point from this on. I don't think others will tolorate your mistakes from this point.

In anycase, I'm still willing to vote for Riddle, but chaco seems to be in my eye sight right now.

Also Omni, you still havn't said your reason for FOSing me.

 

[Riddle]

Riddle - Even if that is a honest mistake, you should really limit yourself from it, otherwise it'll be harder for us to really believe you're town. I understand your last one was a honest mistake, but please check your point from this on. I don't think others will tolorate your mistakes from this point.

In anycase, I'm still willing to vote for Riddle, but chaco seems to be in my eye sight right now.

Also Omni, you still havn't said your reason for FOSing me.

I realize that the mistakes are too much in this game. And I am going to start proofreading my posts. However, mistakes are not a scum-tell at all. the might be annoying but for something to be a scum-tell it has got to have some scum-reasoning behind it. I realize some of my individual mistakes have scum-reasonings (albeit stupid ones) but altogether they point to a careless player of no particular allignement.

Coasting, however, is a scum-tell. Scum coast because discussion helps town and because they can not commit scum-tells when they aren't posting. That is why I find people such as Hando and Chill scummy.

Hando felt no reason to post his reasons until he was under pressure. Is voting me for a null-tell (at least in my opinion) because my vote seems popular. And has been coasting/active lurking all game.

Chill on the other hand is simply not posting so that makes me think he could just be busy or something.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

The more and more I read and look and Hando's posts, the more I doubt the Riddle lynch toDay in favor of Hando. Not only his is play extremely annoying and useless, but we make the argument he plays like this all the time, and guess what? He's normally...scum. Or indy.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Actually scratch that, since he's taken up this gay playstyle, he HAS been scum or indy.

 

[Chaco]

Guys, my dad ****ed my Internet. I have phone web, but without WiFi it's a pain. V/LA for a few days.

 

[Omni]

Guys, my dad ****ed my Internet. I have phone web, but without WiFi it's a pain. V/LA for a few days.

conveniently enough.

is it decided that we're going to lynch Hando? i'm voteblocked and chaco going V/LA will keep a vote on Riddle aka not Hando. i do not like the fact that Chaco hasn't unvoted Riddle at this point considering a Riddle lynch is very questionable at the moment. regardless, everyone needs to make a decision immediately.

we have about 3-4 days left until the deadline. let's seriously just kill Hando and be over with it.

 

[Rockin]

I realize that the mistakes are too much in this game. And I am going to start proofreading my posts. However, mistakes are not a scum-tell at all. the might be annoying but for something to be a scum-tell it has got to have some scum-reasoning behind it. I realize some of my individual mistakes have scum-reasonings (albeit stupid ones) but altogether they point to a careless player of no particular allignement.

Mistakes are just that: mistakes. Understand that if it was a typo of something, then that's one thing of a normal mistakes. If, however you ask something such as if they used either of their power, or you ask how many bullets a vig has in mid game, then THAT is pretty suspicious and un-townie-like IMO. You HAVE to really take in consideration on the things that you type up, otherwise you will be lynched, regardless if it was harmless or not >>

The more and more I read and look and Hando's posts, the more I doubt the Riddle lynch toDay in favor of Hando. Not only his is play extremely annoying and useless, but we make the argument he plays like this all the time, and guess what? He's normally...scum. Or indy.

I'll agree that Hando hasn't been that helpful, but jf, it seems like you're basically using the 'Rule No. 1' reasoning for lynching Hando, which is not exactly a garanteed reason.

Let's look at this for a second here. Hando has been playing like this...several times, right? Normally, he comes up as Maf, but he also comes up as town as town as well. Now, ask yourself this important question

with the way Hando has played before, like this, would he be STUPID enough to do something that would attract attention to himself negativly?

granted, I wouldn't mind much if he's lynched, but I'm not gonna support a lynch with these type of reasoning.

 

[Tom]

“Cosmo Canyon... This's where AVALANCHE was born... I promised my guys someday... when we saved the planet from the Shinra, that we'd all go to Cosmo Canyon and celebrate... Biggs... Wedge... Jessie... Now they're all gone... died for the planet. Really? To save the planet? We all... we all hate the Shinra... Do I even got to go on? Will they...... ...will they ever forgive me? ...Right now, I really don't know. But I know one thing. If there's anything I can do, to save the planet... or the people livin' on it... Then I'm gonna do it! I don't care if it's for justice or revenge, or whatever. I don't care......let'em decide for 'emselves. Urrrrrgh! I'm gonna do it!! Again... Again... AVALANCHE's born again!”

22nd Vote Count
(4) Riddle: Handorin, Omis, Chaco, Junglefever
(2) Handorin: Riddle, Marshy

Not voting (6): Frozenflame, Mentos, Rockin, Chill, Omni, Ronike

Frozenflame and Chill have been prodded for activity.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
A deadline has been set for midnight (12:01 AM) EST on October 3rd.

 

[Omni]

I'll agree that Hando hasn't been that helpful, but jf, it seems like you're basically using the 'Rule No. 1' reasoning for lynching Hando, which is not exactly a garanteed reason.

Let's look at this for a second here. Hando has been playing like this...several times, right? Normally, he comes up as Maf, but he also comes up as town as town as well. Now, ask yourself this important question

fos: rockin again

jungle also mentioned how he is completely annoying and useless. if you recall d1, an argument was made on Hando about how he tried to back up his vote on me by declaring that he knew how town omni would play. rule #1 isn't the only argument that has been made against Hando.

with the way Hando has played before, like this, would he be STUPID enough to do something that would attract attention to himself negativly?

i feel like you're smart and experienced enough now to know what WIFOM is Rockin. the fact that you're using this argument as a case to defend Hando really makes me think you're defending him.

granted, I wouldn't mind much if he's lynched, but I'm not gonna support a lynch with these type of reasoning.

so you don't mind if he is lynched even though you disagree with the reasonings for him being lynched? sounds like a "well if i have to bus my mafia partner i might as well leave that option open" statement.

i really feel comfortable with lynching Hando now. we get to remove a useless, coasting player and highly probable scum. if hando flips scum hando/chaco/rockin team seems probable.

@rockin: what are your reasons for wanting to lynch Riddle. be specific. then tell me why those reasons override the reasons to lynch Hando

 

[Ronike]

Omni, I don't like it that you seem to be casting aside the Riddle lynch based simply on your own suspicions. Fact of the matter is, Riddle is still suspicious, and sometimes you have to follow the law of Occam's Razor. In addition, should we lynch Riddle and he flips scum, we have valuable information on a very scummy player: you. So I am still perfectly content with a Riddle lynch.

On the flip side, I also would be more than happy to get rid of the uselessness and annoyingness that is Handorin, not to mention we get info as you said. But as other people have said, the lynh movement on Hando is based more off of Rule #1 and his annoying playstyle than actual scumminess. Although there is his lack of interest in the game, which originally hinted me at his possibly being scum (I mean, if you had been scum for like 7 games straight, wouldn't you be bored of it?), but I dunno.

In all honestly, I'm equally alright with lynching either of them. I just don't want a no lynch. No info from those. So atm, Im gonna vote for the person I think that will actually end up getting lynched.

Vote: Riddle

Should he flip town, I fully endorse a Hando lynch for tomorrow. And if we end up getting Hando lynched today, Im perfectly alright with that too.

As a side note, to all the people that say making mistakes isn't scummy, it really is guys. For the same reason that skimming is scummy, and for the reason why Hando is scummy. Mistakes further than simply msipseliing or whatever signify a lack of interest in the game, usually caused by being scum. One of the main draws of the game for most people is the mystery and figuring out who is scum. If you are scum, you already know all the answers, and thus don't have that sense of mystery, therefore the game is slightly less interesting. In addition, if you are scum, you don't have to pay as much attention to what people are saying because you don't have to worry about looking for scum. That's why those kind of things are scummy IMO, except for in the case of Hando. Those things are scummy in his case because he is always mafia, and it must be boring.

 

[Riddle]

This argument is flawed. I have never played mafia before so wouldn't that be fun for me? I think that mafia would actually be a lot of fun.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

So I assume you're having fun right now then

 

[Rockin]

so you don't mind if he is lynched even though you disagree with the reasonings for him being lynched? sounds like a "well if i have to bus my mafia partner i might as well leave that option open" statement.

It's only because Hando hasn't been helpful. However, I don't consider this scummy and just see him playing as a bad townie. I really do want Hando to speak up more though...

@rockin: what are your reasons for wanting to lynch Riddle. be specific. then tell me why those reasons override the reasons to lynch Hando

As several said, Riddle has been acting pretty scummy with his past mistakes here and there such as asking if said person has used their powers. Then there was the switch from Hando, to Omis, then quickly back to Hando as soon as KevinM got daykilled (I know Riddle said he went after Hando D1, but I still don't like how he switched targets so quickly after KevinM passed).

The vote on riddle (I havn't yet, but will do so now cause I wanted to hear what Riddle had to say.) takes priority over Hando because of how scummy Riddle plays. If anything, Hando is just being a jerk. Not scummy. Just plain unhelpful. anything suspicious or scummy to me takes priority over inactivness/coasting (unless the active person is suddenly inactive. Then it might be slightly suspicious). To me, it's like using the reason to go after Yaya, who is ALWAYS inactive in every game I see him.

Vote: Riddle

 

[Rockin]

oh crap, I didn't even mean to hammer. My grandmother was making me run around and such and I didn't even think to see who else posted before my latest one. Still, wouldn't mind seeing Riddle die.

sorry! LOL

 

[Omni]

*rubs temples*

 

[Ronike]

Um, I don't think that was a hammer, considering I count 2 votes, which when added to 4 equals 6, which when 7 is needed, does not amount to a hammer...

At any rate, unvote: Riddle. Just cause I want a lynch doesn't mean I want one now... Lets see if we hear from FF and Chill.

FOS: Rockin I cal BS on your grandma excuse.

 

[Rockin]

*rubs temples*

How about I buy you some beer to cheer you up?

Or maybe a sports car?






I also have Peach pictures if you like those too D:

 

[mentosman8]

Wow Rockin... I want Riddle lynched, but really? You just accidentally hammered the day after a 5 day extension was given, AND before he could name/roleclaim?(Note I haven't checked the votes so I'm assuming you're right here)... If he flips town that reflects very bad on you.

 

[mentosman8]

Ok, Ronike was right, that was only 6 votes. Even still, that doesn't look good at all Rockin

 

[Omni]

you guys talk it out. im gonna coast like hando and see how long i can last

 

[Rockin]

I did a quick look at the last page and yeah, Riddle was currently on 6 votes, not 7. So yeah, false alarm

Oh god, this is starting out like spidey mafia all over again XDDD;;

FOS: Rockin I cal BS on your grandma excuse.

It's understandable really. kinda sounds like WIFOM or something. All I can say was that at middle of creating my post, my grandmother had me running around (she was looking for some papers for her job). When I finally posted, I didn't think of looking back for any new post. So when I saw you posted, I panicked cause I thought I accidently hammered (granted, I want Riddle dead, but like Mentosman mentions seconds later, it's too early).

Wow Rockin... I want Riddle lynched, but really? You just accidentally hammered the day after a 5 day extension was given, AND before he could name/roleclaim?(Note I haven't checked the votes so I'm assuming you're right here)... If he flips town that reflects very bad on you.

Yeah, I know Second n00bish mistake I did in any game

1st was Spidey Mafia, where I was a one shot vig and was acting a bit inactive and scummy T_____T;;;

 

[Riddle]

I'm so tired of the push for my lynch. I am just going to name claim unless at least 3 people tell me not to by tomorrow morning.

 

[Riddle]

It's only because Hando hasn't been helpful. However, I don't consider this scummy and just see him playing as a bad townie. I really do want Hando to speak up more though...

Coasting is actually very scummy. Scum benefits from lack of discussion and bandwagons on townies which are happening right now.

As several said, Riddle has been acting pretty scummy with his past mistakes here and there such as asking if said person has used their powers. Then there was the switch from Hando, to Omis, then quickly back to Hando as soon as KevinM got daykilled (I know Riddle said he went after Hando D1, but I still don't like how he switched targets so quickly after KevinM passed).

The reason something is scummy is because it is something that scum would do, right? I fail to see how mistakes are a scum-tell. On your opinion of my switching from Omis to Hando I will give you my reasoning. At the end of Day 2 I found both Omis and Hando scummy. However, I had no chance of getting HAndo lynched with that little time. Now, however I have both the time and Omis is almost 100% clear, because a now confirmed mason was 100% postive that Omis was town. It really wasn't random, I found Hando scummy all day however the combination of the extended time and the clear of Omis made him my current target.

The vote on riddle (I havn't yet, but will do so now cause I wanted to hear what Riddle had to say.) takes priority over Hando because of how scummy Riddle plays. If anything, Hando is just being a jerk. Not scummy. Just plain unhelpful. anything suspicious or scummy to me takes priority over inactivness/coasting (unless the active person is suddenly inactive. Then it might be slightly suspicious). To me, it's like using the reason to go after Yaya, who is ALWAYS inactive in every game I see him.

Vote: Riddle

Your whole reason for voting me is scumminess? Way to give an in-depth reason. You have yet to say why mistakes are in fact scummy. Hando is being scummy because scum coasts to take away from discussion. Scum have no reasons to make more mistakes than town though. Mistakes are imo a null-tell. You are just playing on auto-pilot voting people for what you think are scum-tells and what everyone else tells you is scummy.

Just to clarify, the reason I am claiming in the morning (possibly) is because I want time at the end of the day to lynch Hando once people see my claim. I would of course rather avoid it but we are running out of time and it is simply the quickest way to stop my dumb bandwagon.

 

[Omni]

riddle, you put yourself at l-1.

readjust.

anyone who hammers is scum

 

[Tom]

Riddle's self vote in 824 does not count, as it is an obvious misquote formatting mistake.

 

[Riddle]

Thanks Tom, can I fix that or can you fix that? I don't want to edit without permission

 

[Riddle]

Thanks a lot Tom. You are the bestest mod <3.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Holy **** I missed a lot.

Alright so, here are my thoughts on everything that has recently passed:

Concerning the mason claim:

Personally, I believed the claim when it came out, and now that we know Kevin was a town Mason, we can say with confidence the Omis was his partner. However, I am still wary of Omis, because I have seen Town/Maf masonries where the town player is told in his PM that his partner is town as well, even when he is really mafia. A perfect example is Drab Emordnilap's SSBM Mafia (the first mafia game on this site actually) where Popo and Nana were masons and were town and mafia respectively. Nana actually tricked Popo in lylo for the mafia win.

Though it isn't LIKELY that this type of Masonry is what Tom included in this game, I wouldn't rule it out completely.

Also, just to clear a few things regarding masons for people, here are the traditional forms of Masons:

1.) Locked Masonry: Any # of players may communicate with one another outside of the thread for the entirety of the game. Player's lives are not linked nor can the group expand.

2.) Recruiting Mason: One player can choose one person each night to recruit into is masonry. He is town aligned and gains the ability to communicate with any other townies he recruits. Typically is killed if he attempts to recruit a mafia or SK. Sometimes this rule is expanded to result in ALL recruited players dying if a Maf/Indy is recruited,

3.) Town/Maf Mason: Masonry of typically two players in which one player is town, the other is mafia. The town player is told his partner is town as well, but this is a lie. Another variation of this is the Town/Maf Lover role, in which the town and mafia player are in a masonry and know that one is town and the other is mafia. However, their lives are linked and if one dies so does the other.

4.) Cult: Independent version of a recruting mason. Can recruit one person per night which turns them into an independent as well and can communicate with all people in the cult. Usually cult leader dies if he attempts to recuit Mafia. Sometimes this will result in the entire cult dying. Depends on the mod.

I hope that helps anyone who isn't familiar with Masons.

Concerning the Daykill:

I'm in agreement with those who have suggested the daykill is likely the doing of an SK. Considering the role Sephiroth played in the games, he very much fits the independent bill. Think, who was an accomplice to Sephiroth that could possibly comprise a mafia group with him? Furthermore, just from a game balance standpoint, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that Tom would give the mafia a daykilling power in a game of this size. Bearing this in mind...

Concerning today's play:

I believe the Riddle should be today's play. Omni, I thought exactly the same thing as you when I read Kevin was daykilled. It seemed WAY too perfect, as if the mafia was setting us up to rush right into lynching Riddle for a quick day end. However, here's why I still think Riddle is scum despite the "trap like" atmosphere.

Based on my conclusion that the daykill was likely performed by an SK, the setting up of Riddle for a lynch makes perfect sense. If the SK also believed Riddle to be scum, it would very much be in his best interest for the town to rush into quick lynching him. Not only would ending the day quickly minimize the discussion of the daykill (thus, helping whomever the SK is prevent people from possible deducing who he is), but it would also help him swiftly eliminate one of his biggest threats. It is in the SK's best interest to whittle down the mafia in the early game, because if the endgame is comprised of a mafia majority, it is very easy for the mafia to eliminate him. SK's have a much greater chance of victory when the mafia is whittled down early.

With that in mind, though Riddle may have been "set up", it does not discount the possibility that he is scum. All things considered (Riddle's scummy past play, and his continued crumbling and flailing under pressure), I'm hard pressed to continue letting him slide. Omis's play was bad enough earlier to let me pass off the early mistakes as simple errors, but the fact that the trend is STILL CONTINUING even now is something I find highly disturbing.

I won't hammer Riddle without feedback. But I am very convinced he remains our best play.

Concerning Jesters:

I agree with Marshy and Omni 100% in that I highly doubt Tom put a jester in this game. Though I've never seen him personally testify his dislike of them, I believe that it is true. Furthermore, even if we DID have a jester in this game, I'd have no qualms lynching him and being done with it. I too hate Jester's with a passion, and my posts in the Strategy Discussion thread can attest to that.

Concerning nameclaiming:

I agree with Marshy that it is likely that Tom provided safeclaims for non-town players and rushing a claim with the current deadline could yield disastrous results. We'd only be providing the Mafia and potential SK with targets for the coming night with very little to no benefit. You need a lot of time to organize and fully analyze a nameclaim, and as such, now is NOT the time to be doing it. Town needs more time than non-town to derive any benefits from a name claim.

And lastly, I must once again apologize for my inactive belligerence. Life is crazy, but no johns. Sorry guys.

 

[Riddle]

This isn't going anywhere. Town is thoroughly convinced that I am scum for their "scum-tells" which are not in fact scummy. People are bandwagoning because it seems like the best thing to do and its gone too far. WE should get this over with.

I name-claim Cloud Strife

 

[Omni]

yup. saw that coming. i believe his claim.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

......................Okay. I don't know how inclined I am to believe your claim at this moment. But...


unvote

 

[Chaco]

Answer this Riddle, where you the one who killed Kevin?

 

[Chaco]

I DESPISE PHONE WEB!

Took 3 minutes to post that.

 

[Omni]

riddle, make sure u do not give anything extra out when answering questions.

im highly suspicious of chaco for asking that question considering he assumed it was an SK kill

 

[Chaco]

Omni, if he killed Kevin do you realise how dumb of a play that was? If he does he needs to say of so we can clear out SK as an option. See the point now?

 

[Omni]

Omni, if he killed Kevin do you realise how dumb of a play that was? If he does he needs to say of so we can clear out SK as an option. See the point now?

Yeah, Im feeling Daykilling SK. But I find that timing odd, and why would it extend the day?

are you suggesting that Cloud Strife is a daykilling SK?

to me it sounds like you're trying to see if he has a killing ability.

 

[Chaco]

No, stop twisting what Im saying. At the time I thought it was highly unlikely for anyone other than riddle to have used that action, then it was a kill. I thought that was off, and then he claimed Cloud. Fits together to well. Im saying he more than likely killed Kevin, and needs to tell us if he did. It clears a lot for town. He's already ousted as Cloud, Omni.

 

[Omni]

No, stop twisting what Im saying. At the time I thought it was highly unlikely for anyone other than riddle to have used that action, then it was a kill. I thought that was off, and then he claimed Cloud. Fits together to well. Im saying he more than likely killed Kevin, and needs to tell us if he did. It clears a lot for town. He's already ousted as Cloud, Omni.

okay, so are you suggesting that Cloud Strife is a daykilling sk?

Cloud Strife being an SK doesn't fit well at all

 

[Chaco]

GOD NO OMNI. Can you seriously not put two n two together? Dammit dude, dayvig.