Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia: Game finally over! Raziek lynched, Town wins! Lego too!

[Gova]

Can you explain to me how you inherited the Day Jan..? I don't recall that ability being used so I'm wondering how you would have gained access to it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

It only takes effect if the player who is targeted is lynched. Simply means Gheb didn't target his scummate or himself.

Also, I recant my statement about Sang being full of **** because I realized I'd simply made a mistake with how NAR would play out with two thieves.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Cool with dying. I'll keep things short and sweet since its like 3:30 am.

I targeted Ryker with a strong suspicion that he was scum going into toDay. Figured if he had auto-potion as he so claimed, then no big, my roleblock wouldn't do jack ****. But hey, he didn't have it! I was hoping Raz would watch me and tell me where I had gone (since remember I didn't go anywhere targeting Gova), but I also needed Ryker to commit to having autopotion before I threw that out there.

BUT GLYPH, HOW COULD YOU THINK RYKER ISN'T TOWN?!

Because I'm good at looking at things from a scum perspective and finding clever ways of manipulating those around me. The biggest thing I'm looking at is:

1. No NKs thus far
2. Only thing with a semblance to that is the Execution we saw go up

I think its a pretty safe bet to say that the execution is NOT a town role. Unless someone wants to own up to that, in which case you've got some 'splainin to do. Gheb and Ryker were pretty universally town reads, so its a logical choice for an indy to put them up for it (more on that in a bit).

But consider if you will, that the execution ability is one possessed by the mafia faction instead of the indy. What would have possessed the faction to put up Gheb, someone with literally zero pressure on him, up against RYKER of all people? Anyone else would have been such a preposeriously easy decision in Gheb's favor that it would have just gotten blown through scoring scum a town death. It just doesn't add up.

Unless, Ryker my boy is mafia as well.

Consider THAT for a moment. We execute one, he flips as scum. Everyone else sees this going down and goes 'oh wow, guess that makes [other player] confirmed town!' (gee looks familiar already). A real big part of my suspicion of this is this post:

-snip-
4. This Execution ability that is almost certainly scum aligned makes a LOT more sense balance-wise if you have to put up a scummy in order to use it. Gheb is the only possible scummy in the game that would stand a chance of living vs. me.
-snip-

This sat reaaaaally poorly with me. First off, it very clearly establishes that the ability most likely MUST be TvS. Which would clear Ryker. Which is exactly what he wants.

Second...Why would Gheb risk his life to kill Ryker? Sure, Ryker was going to be a problem if he's not aligned with them, but so early in the game? Why throw away everything Gheb had on a cointoss between them? Not to mention the sheer coincidence of Ryker just happening onto Gheb's mafia meta that just happens to fit this exact situation to the letter.

In a few words, mafia would get a false clear out of it regardless of who got killed. They have everything to gain from setting up such a situation.

And what if we lynch Ryker and he flips town? Well then, we're confirmed to be looking for an indy instead of a mafia member. Simple as that.

A Ryker lynch will either straight up win us the game if he's the last mafia member (if this setup has an semblance of numerical balance), or it will give town DIRECTION if he flips town. Knowing what you're looking for is half the battle, and there's certainly people alive who are very capable of figuring that **** out.


Very rambling, but that's that. Kill me, then look into this ****. Don't let Ryker talk you out of lynching him.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

There's no way in hell that the ability has multiple uses. Too stifling on town's control of the game. It's not long term enough for an indy, imo. More likely mafia at the moment.

No, don't assume there's only one kill at play. There's a lot of roles around out there.

Oh forgot this quote, but the logic of it fits in nicely with where I wanted it to.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

So Glyph, if I'm scum, why was there no kill last night?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

How the hell would I know, but that really doesn't matter at all. Could have not shot or a bunch of other things.

 

[Kantrip]

I doubt Ryker would have the balls to pull what he did with risking BOTH of them dying. Sans Orbo saving the day, Ryker would be dead too.

In short, bad conspiracy theory is bad.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

I doubt Ryker would have the balls to pull what he did with risking BOTH of them dying. Sans Orbo saving the day, Ryker would be dead too.

In short, bad conspiracy theory is bad.

Do you REALLY think that we would have let both Ryker and Gheb die? Without Ryker himself stepping in to direct everyone to make sure that we did just that?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

How the hell would I know, but that really doesn't matter at all. Could have not shot or a bunch of other things.

Oh no. Now we're in this ****.

You've got to flesh out my motivation for this entire scenario.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Without knowing what kind of abilities scum has for kills that would lead to just about as many roles as I can make up for them.

And I could probably make up a lot.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Rather, I'm going to work with the information we actually have available to us.

 

[Kantrip]

My head at the moment is clearer than it has ever been in a mafia game. Maybe I'm improving!

I firmly believe there is an independent faction that lies in Glyph/Legolas.

After that, there may or may not be a final mafia member. If there is, it is very likely Inferno. Otherwise it is Sang/Gova. Margin for error would have me throw Rajam in there as well, but that's excessive at this point.

Ryker, what do you think about Legolas not having a stone? Also, consider how similar his play has been to Glyph's. Do you agree that he is the runner-up contender in Who Wants to be an Indy?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Without knowing what kind of abilities scum has for kills that would lead to just about as many roles as I can make up for them.

And I could probably make up a lot.

Oh? Really. That answers just about nothing. I don't care about roles for kills. I want to know about why I wouldn't kill anyone. The action of killing, not any bonuses.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Oh so you want potential scenarios in which MafiaRyker doesn't kill someone?

-Someone lied about a claim and has auto potion
-Someone protected someone else correctly
-There is a stipulation preventing you from killing (and oh god does this one count for a bunch)
-Limited number of kills
-Kills can only go through if certain things are done in the previous day
-Kills can only be used on certain nights
-Only certain members of the mafia have the kill

Off the top of my head

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Those last few are a subset of the stipulation thing, but apparently when you use spaces for indents those get eaten

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

-We've got no one claiming voteblocked. That would imply we have a lying townie in mass claim.
-Who was protected last night and why would I shoot them?
-So this is a No Kill mafia where I burned through both of my teammates in a last minute switch on Day 2...... Sure.
-We've got a mafia faction with limited kills in a set-up where almost anyone can have a defensive ability...... Sure.
-See above.
-See above.
-See above with the fact that I would have burned through any teammates with that ability.
-

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Essentially, you have only one that can hold any water and you don't expand on it because if you do, then it won't.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

1.We've got no one claiming voteblocked. That would imply we have a lying townie in mass claim.
2. Who was protected last night and why would I shoot them?
3. So this is a No Kill mafia where I burned through both of my teammates in a last minute switch on Day 2...... Sure.
4. We've got a mafia faction with limited kills in a set-up where almost anyone can have a defensive ability...... Sure.
5. See above.
6. See above.
7. See above with the fact that I would have burned through any teammates with that ability.
-

1. How would I know
2. Again, I'm not the doc who would have done it if it was done. I don't know who would have done that or who you would have shot. I don't care. But just because I don't have a name to give does not take away ANY credibility from the scenario
3. Scenarios are independent. Your busing of them doesn't mean that you don't have a kill to use.
4. CAN is not the same as WILL. Considering the huge variety of roles and the fact that my own power is limited in use, I could certainly see scum getting a similar restriction.



Added numbers because that formatting was pretty ****ty.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

1. Not buying it. Now you have to put forward a player's motivation in not outing that they were targeted with a night kill and having to explain why they aren't voting.
2. You have a freaking mass claim at your disposal. Look at the options and explain it.
3. GO TO HELL! How are the scenarios independent why in the **** would I not take into account what I am doing to my hypothetical faction in bussing Gheb and RR.
4. In my next post.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

4. CAN is not the same as WILL. Considering the huge variety of roles and the fact that my own power is limited in use, I could certainly see scum getting a similar restriction.

Scum slip.

The comparison makes no sense from a town perspective. The only reason you would use your role having a similar restriction as a source to site is if you were indy.

lol Vote Glyph

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Wait why am I even still alive. We can argue this **** in twilight.

Permission to self vote?

Also, that **** ain't no scum slip. My role is very different than the others I've seen from everyone else in that everything was assigned to me AND it counts as a NK. There's got to be some reason for it to be limited the way it is.

 

[Kantrip]

Unvote

That's reaching for a slip.

I'll rejoin you on the wagon when you stop ignoring me.

 

[Kantrip]

**** why would you self vote?

There's a lot more to coordinate from this Day. Claims aren't finished, either.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Kantrip I'll be honest I'm having a hard time getting a feel for what the hell you're doing here

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Unvote

That's reaching for a slip.

I'll rejoin you on the wagon when you stop ignoring me.

Is that at me? Where the hell am I ignoring you?


Anyway, he's trying to apply town role restrictions to a mafia night kill. I do not buy it. Why would he make that comparison without him being scum?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Yeah remember how my role is treated as a NK?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Hell, the Thief skill description even says that it doesn't apply to factional abilities. Implying that a factional night kill exists.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yeah remember how my role is treated as a NK?

And ?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

...so why would I not assume NKs were handled in a similar manner? Why impose a restriction on mine by limiting it and not the real thing?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

What does that have to do with a factional night kill? How does that make the comparison valid? Spell it out in black and white.

Permission to self-vote granted. I want Lego to investigate Inferno and past that we're good. Raz will be on before OS.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

vote: Glyphmoneymuscles

My ability is DESIGNED to look like NKs! In every facet of what they do! So I have a hard time seeing why it would tack on a 'hey you can only use this one 2 times' for mine and leave the other unrestricted.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

No. It's not designed to look like night kills. It's designed to act on Night Kill priority. Why should I assume otherwise?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

I'm going to bed now since my brain is all sorts of full of **** right now

BUT I'LL BE BACK FOR YOU RYKER

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Gova should vote dat Glyph and do whatever tonight. Just don't bother defending me anymore.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Gova and Kantrip should protect circle each other, tbh.

 

[Rajam]

-We've got no one claiming voteblocked. That would imply we have a lying townie in mass claim.
-Who was protected last night and why would I shoot them?
-So this is a No Kill mafia where I burned through both of my teammates in a last minute switch on Day 2...... Sure.
-We've got a mafia faction with limited kills in a set-up where almost anyone can have a defensive ability...... Sure.
-See above.
-See above.
-See above with the fact that I would have burned through any teammates with that ability.
-

Will start to check claims in detail now. For the record, Inferno claimed voteblocked toDay.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

But he's also claimed two separate target abilities and that would imply that I ****ing tried to night kill Inferno.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Oh. Thanks for the clarification mod

So it is a passive ability, and Thief specifically says it can't steal passive abilities. Sang=lying.

No. It's like Jump. You have to send in the action. Any action that occurs towards me after I send that in fails.

 

[Inferno3044]

Alright, so Glyph is indy. Fun stuff.





I'm a Thief Lv.1 and Lancer Lv.2. Might switch those as I dunno if it's right, but I've got Steal and Jump. Our restriction is that I cannot be protected from night kills.

Night 1 I jumped, removing ourselves from NAR.
Night 2 I inherited TWO abilities from yesterday.

I inherited a Day Jan that Janitors the target if they are lynched (I declined to use it) and I got an Oracle roleblock WITHOUT THE ORACLE RESTRICTION! Because I didn't pick the Oracle class and only recieved the ability, I was essentially able to roleblock any two players, which I did.

That being said, I was pretty sold on my scum reads and didn't fancy dying a stabby death, so I found them at their lockers and nerd shoved Glyph and Inferno into them. Glyph landed on his sandwich and his butt is now covered in mayonnaise.



I bull****ted tracker completely because Raz was a question mark leaping off the page at me. After he claimed Watcher, I reasoned out that he had to have targeted Gheb because his action would have failed if I had jumped away. As such, I was essentially able to play out the situation as the tracker because there was no reason to make scum suspect I may not have picked Auto-Potion, the ability being a pretty solid choice to stick around with a track.



Gova's ability failed because we're a Thief, not because of his restriction (I think).

Wait you're a thief? If that's right, then Sang is lying about getting RR's ability because only the thief closest to the hammer gets the ability.

-We've got no one claiming voteblocked. That would imply we have a lying townie in mass claim.
-Who was protected last night and why would I shoot them?
-So this is a No Kill mafia where I burned through both of my teammates in a last minute switch on Day 2...... Sure.
-We've got a mafia faction with limited kills in a set-up where almost anyone can have a defensive ability...... Sure.
-See above.
-See above.
-See above with the fact that I would have burned through any teammates with that ability.
-

I claimed vote-blocked.

 

[Inferno3044]

EBWOP: Scratch what I just said about Sang. Just reread thief for clarification. Sang is possibly telling the truth.