[collapse=Freaking Self ISO since apparently I need to justify every post I make]
vote: Rajam
Read all you guys stuff, I get that having so much setup info is really tempting to lean on but we don't know what kind of restrictions are going to be reused for scum or hell even for town who didn't get to pick their abilities. Don't see the purpose in forcing discussion to revolve around that (what with the 'if you don't look at the setup in OS games you're gunna get burned), could just be because its 2am and I'm super tired.
I want to kill off at LEAST one 'liability' player. Not necessarily today, willing to mill around until something better comes up. If someone can make good stuff happen tonight, that would be divine.
Jesus my brain isn't working very well. Here's a song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAlztMvvNkk
Nighty night mafia game
First post of the game. I wanted to lynch Rajam or another liability player. Hey look, Rajam has been all but useless to us.
Nicklebackisgreat, how does it NOT benefit town? If we hit scum, horray scum is dead! If we hit town, horray, scum won't have a puppet to control in Lylo.
Wins all around
Argument for why lynching a weak player is a viable strategy.
Glyph, if I were to use my one-shot neighborizer on you, would I regret it, or would you play?
I'm going to play regardless but am always down to make friends
ANSWERING A QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED OF ME.
How is it that everybody thinks another player is acting fake
How is it that I'm being lumped in with players like Rajam
Expressing distaste for the arguments of scum reads at that point in the game that are based largely off of meta, as well as being referred to as a poor mafia player.
A rhetorical question.
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
Responding to Gheb, showing that I disagreed with his evaluation of my ability.
I think Gheb's an *******, but probably town. Disagree with the Nich scum read, he seems more frustrated town than cornered scum to me.
Haven't come across anything I'd deem significant enough to push for scum yet, only little things that could come into play later. For now I still stand by my previous stance of picking off a bad player.
Stating that I have a town read on Gheb, and that I could see town intent in Nich's posts.
Only thing I can remember off the top of my head is you (Raz) appealing to Gheb for his case on Nich rather than applying pressure of your own.
I hadn't seen anything that I thought was particularly scummy. As is such, I didn't have any scum reads at the time. I did, however, not like the way Raz approached Gheb's case (he just was like 'yeah good work' but didn't lend any actual pressure to it)
Legolas shut up I do what I want apparently
Effectively an edit to the prior post, as you ninja'd me.
Then Rajam because I think he is scum and we should lynch him and this has nothing to do with wanting to just lynch a bad player
A scum read was demanded from me, so I gave them the next best thing I had to offer.
There's not much else to discuss about the classes without going into trying to direct roles and claiming, so that was kind of a dead end to begin with. It was meant to be an information supplier.
I already answered Nick in that I don't think the wording was necessarily a scum tell, it just raised a flag with me. It drew my attention. I don't think Inferno is scum for it.
You say my reasoning is convenient, but what makes it differ from, say, Rykers?
Hate when people say that. Just because someone else has done something doesn't make it fair game.
Expressing that I thought Raziek's logic wasn't sound in that argument.
Expressing that I agreed with Raziek adding his vote to Rajam, and effectively reinforcing that I supported the Rajam lynch.
Nich I can tell you now that you're not exactly rallying the troops to your side by trying to act like Ryker's play hasn't been justified.
Distaste for Nich's later play in relation to Ryker (spoiler, means I probably don't have him as town anymore)
What do you do when those guys replace in and want you dead too Nich?
Not literally asking Nich what he thinks will happen, but saying that
I think that if one were to replace in that they also would want Nich dead.
Thinking your play was justified isn't the same as agreeing with everything you say hombre. And you should still neighbor me.
Expressing that I did not agree with every point in Ryker's argument (god knows what ones though)
Why not pressure T-Block?
unvote vote: T-block
Rajam I'll come back for you one day, I promise
Hey Gheb that's not a bad idea (spoiler: T-block is a scum read as well)
You know what
I've had juuuust about enough of this mess
Hellcry Punch: Nicholas1024
Nighty night
Nich is solidly at a null for me, and the Ryker case is not persuading me one way or the other. I needed to do something on my own if I wanted a read.
So... was I just dayvigged or is that something else entirely?
Nah, Hellcry Punch is more of a love tap
(lol u ded)
Doing my best to ensure Nich thinks he really is dead. If he didn't, then my read would have been tainted.
Oh, and a heads up, the day ends when I use it champ so if you're going to want to actually help us (assuming you're not scum that is) then you're going to want to jump on that right now
Pressure on Nich to respond quickly and fully.
Okay. Yeah don't introduce unnecessary questions about validity by claiming, we'll be getting that soon enough.
Liked your reactions decently enough until that last line. Seems too much like you're trying to look like town who's been killed imo. Plus looking back a bit, the part about calling me intelligent if it was fake, which was certainly appreciated, but seems out of place considering I just killed you.
In a nutshell, you seem really okay with being dead. All that passion and anger I saw with you arguing with not one hour ago just evaporated. You're not coming across as bitter at being killed, you're coming across as someone who needs to look town in the off chance its a gambit.
But alas, its not. Feeling good about the call.
Keeping the claim out of the mix since the shot was faked, we didn't need that information.
Justification as to my feelings on his reactions, landing him in scum territory.
Asking people to claim out of no where usually doesn't go over well in my experience heh.
And to ensure what I want to happen, happens. Why drag it out, especially when the whole conversation was being choked by Ryker v Nich.
But it looks like you've been considering the circumstances of my shot a lot. I still see a lot of scum thought process in your post. If I were to be shot under these circumstances and was town, I'd just feel like 'oh damn well i guess Glyph bought into that dumb case against me'. But you're still very focused on how I handled the whole thing, and whether or not it makes sense if its real. Dats self-preservation, yo.
Also you used a winkyface and winkyfaces are always scumtells (only partially joking on that)
More argument against Nich, as well as me trying to keep him talking.
Okay.
Well I've made my stance clear, but its not up to me whether or not you die at this point. There is a built in balance to my daykill in that some other player has to either confirm it or deny it. I don't have any information on who the other person is, but I've done my best to show that I feel its the right call to push through.
Very interested in hearing other people's comments on the whole situation. Like, anyone at all.
Explanation as to why the kill didn't go through after the post count went up, designed to maintain pressure on Nich as well as allow me to reuse the gambit at a later time.
Its not addressed in my role PM, but I think the wording hints that I would? I'll have to clarify.
BS to lend credibility to what I'm saying.
So what were you hoping to achieve, G-life?
Beyond having Nich dead? Pretty much exactly what's happened here. I thought that Ryker v Nich (while entertaining) was largely dumb and repetitive on many issues. Rather than watch Ryker cite the same things over and over I figured I'd put some new pressure on. Figured if the kill went through, great, Nich dead. If it doesn't, great, I can do my best to ensure we get some new information out of him.
I understand where you're coming from with wondering why I did it so early, but bear in mind that the check to my power has allllll day to get their decision in. That's why my vote is still on T-block atm, someone can just pull the plug on Nich.
That's assuming my check wants Nich dead of course. If we get close to deadline and he hasn't made a move I am all for the standard lynch.
Hard stance against Nich, as well as the real justification for why I supported his lynch (written as support for taking the shot).
And again, doing my best to preserve the gambit.
I'll do what I have to to get my reads heard and acted on. I notice that you conveniently avoided any comments on my case, considering I won't be around to push it much longer, and other people aren't likely to push it for me.
I wanted to know why he didn't think people would push his points after he was dead (I figured it was a scum slip; people would see he wasn't town and know his reads weren't to be trusted).
'Boooo' part was directed at T-block replacing out, which was boners since he was one of the more looked at players.
Considering Gheb just mentioned following up on Ryker (along with T-block and Raz), I don't think that's something you need to worry about.
If people aren't pushing your reads after your gone then you haven't done a good enough job convincing them that you were right imo.
Reassurance to Nich that Ryker wasn't getting a clear off of his case, also reminding him that if people DON'T follow his scum read on him he only had himself to blame.
I'm certainly not going to try to deny that there are several players in this game I don't have the highest hopes for. That's not to say there aren't players in it I think can make informed decisions as well though.
Glancing at the OP I see 8 names that I think could handle themselves given the chance to. That leaves 5 I either don't know enough about to say or think they could not handle the pressure. Not that bad.
Again, conversing with Nich. This time in regards to the quality of town. Keeps Nich talking and feeling like he's got someone who is actually listening to him, which is vital in keeping him posting (especially if he's scum).
1.- no
2.- I'm always a threat to scum
Rajam do you only address things if they are explicitly directed at you?
If so: Rajam, talk about SOMETHING THAT MATTERS
Rajam being Rajam. Got tired of it.
Rajam please read and be on top of things. That was post #62. I am currently posting #405 and I don't need you playing catch up the entire game. It doesn't help anyone.
Inferno its great that you're questioning Rajam but there is a TON of **** that just happened that I want you to weigh in on.
Rajam, you can't think what you're doing right now constitutes playing a mafia game.
Inferno jumping in with no comment on the whole development of Nich, instead opting to callout Rajam as well. Prompted him to comment on it.
Plus I think EE has like blood rights to that GIF for winning mafia games
Rajam used EE's game winning gif. I don't care if its not part of the game, you stick up for your bros.
Raziek isn't so much not dealing with the issue at hand as not dealing with anything at the moment beyond the obvious Rajam stuff. I know that feel for being busy though.
Rajam I have no words for. Inferno I am not happy with for ignoring the whole situation and instead putting 'pressure' on Rajam.
I understand 2/3 of your concern, but bear in mind that there are a number of players who still haven't voiced an opinion on the matter. If they stay inactive then welp we're in trouble, but I don't think they will.
Expressing that while I haven't liked some of Raziek's actions, overall I understand where he's coming from and why they've happened. He's pretty null, possibly a slight town lean at this point.
Rajam and Inferno I was willing to look into more at this point, but still considered them to be pretty much a tossup. Not so much null as vigbait.
Why is that whole post pretty much based around meta? Meta that I largely disagree with btw, if reading Ryker was as easy as saying 'look he is playing this time' he wouldn't win games.
Gova makes a post, and I heavily disagreed with his argument. Gova slight scum read, though reading later on has me much less concerned with Gova.
Glyph.
What changed from here to making a shot on him?
RR calling me out on the change from calling Nich town to shooting him, which is a fair thing to do. Nich had fallen from 'town maybe?' to 'oh god what even is this'. I still had no intention of blowing my cover, so I had to try to diffuse the situation without looking too suspicious.
All of the posts between when I said that and took the shot RR
The argument between Ryker and Nich. The only thing that happened during that time.
RR this isn't rocket science.
Ok, then why was he a town read before the argument?
Because that's the feel I got before then.
RR I really don't think you're grasping a key component here and I'm not going to explain it to you.
RR keeps driving at the point, but seems to pick up on the fact that I was trying to preserve my gambit after this post.
I believe a glance at his postbit will clarify that for you Kantrip.
Round 1 to Ryker. Long *** read but the quotes back up the claim that Nich hasn't really addressed points brought up against him.
Nich, prove me wrong. Maybe I misread (but oh god please don't make your post as long as Rykers)
Showing support for Ryker's case, but still encouraging Nich to respond to it in full.
I feel dirty using that last point as evidence against him Ryker, but it is a damn convincing one.
Simply stating how I felt about the last point. It was pretty damning in that context, but still not something I personally would have brought into the game.
Likewise.
Nich lynch is pretty much set at this point, I don't see any reason to push it any more than it already has been (hard to push it further than Ryker has). A lot of what I'm looking at is going to depend on Nich's flip, so I'm down for ending the day a bit early to get that information.
At this point the day is all but over, and I didn't see us getting anything terribly relevent until after Nich was dead (and flipped scum, I figured)
On phone but that last bit about on you offering the deal and how it proves you're not scum is horrendous.
Also, I'm still with Ryker on the large. You refer to a lot of his case as flat out lies, but thats really not true at all. The only inaccuracy he might have had was the number of posts nick had before you voted him (something you were adamantly pointing out)... But even if he did count wrong it doesn't change anything. It just means he counted wrong.
Nich trying to clear himself with self meta, which was gross. Starting to ween off the pressure to keep Nich posting since the lynch is effectively set and we've stopped getting information out of him.
Nich, take a look at what's going on. The situation you are in is not a matter of Ryker lying or a poor town; its a product of your play. You need to recognize that Ryker has made a lot of good points against you that can't really be refuted, and you can't blame that on anyone else.
Its a good time to claim.
Nich is reluctant to claim. I do what I can to help him realize that it is very much time for that.
I think the whole damn thing is pretty convincing, especially since the defense I see you use the most often is 'I was doing this for ____, but you couldn't tell because it was supposed to _____' (ie, I voted Nick to put pressure on him to scumhunt)
Saying you did that for a reason needs to line up with what is going on at the time, and I don't feel that yours does.
I'm going to entirely discount the entire point about the posting outside the thread since I just don't like relying on **** like that, but I don't think I've got an issue with the rest.
Its still claiming time hombre.
Again, push for claim. This post actually lines up a lot with what I'm doing now, except my play lines up pretty well (I'd go as far as to say exactly) with what I am explaining it to be.
Gova it sounds like you think Nich is town, is that the case?
Wanted Gova to take a hard stance on Nich. He didn't.
You can say whatever the hell you want, but when you put a vote down on someone you're saying 'I want you dead'. Whether you mean it to put pressure or to be a legit wagon DOESN'T MATTER AT THE TIME. In fact, if you vote for someone and make it clear its just for pressure you have not accomplished anything, it'd be like putting a gun to someone's head after showing them its not loaded.
So from an outsider's point of view, you telling Nick to scum hunt and then voting him says 'you need to get off your *** or I'm going to kill you'. That is not a phrase that works though, since you've put them on the defensive already. BUT HEY its not like this has already been said, so I'm gunna leave it at that.
Okay.
Oh hey, its the reasoning for my vote on T-Block! Explaining to Nich why things are happening.
The okay is quoting Gova's stance and saying I have read it.
Well considering you're going to get lynched if you don't claim I don't see why you'd even say that Nich
Come on Nich claim already.
Nich off the top of my head Inferno and I have both said we were willing to vote you but are abstaining from doing so because of the whole 'people needing less votes' thing.
Freaking claaaaaaaaaaaaim.
...how is knowing his stone important?
I wasn't sure we should volunteer the stone information. Concerned that scum could have some role that revolves around collecting them or some crazy **** and we might not want that public.
Lynch is entirely set, my vote puts him at L-2 (left off to prevent premature lynch up to this point)
Yeah, that too but I'd really like to find out if there's a pro-town benefit of keeping him around and lynch a lurker / inactive instead. I really doubt it though.
We could, but then we're just almost certainly going to just have to lynch Nich tomorrow.
Justification as to why Nich should not be left alive.
@Gheb: I can respect that logic, but there is just a preposterous amount of **** that could go wrong in a game as night action heavy as this one.
Also, Nich that proposition is incredibly silly
Same again, and expressing that Nich's plan involving forcing a half claim was not a good plan.
No Gheb he wants someone ELSE to some how keep him from being role blocked.
Clarifying something Gheb misread.
Raz hasn't done anything really worth thinking is wrong, but hasn't really done anything great either. Just busy from what I gather.
I like Legolas, Gheb, and Ryker. Gheb is the strongest town read for me, I've liked the way he's been looking at things like the Nich lynch. Ryker I don't see bending over backwards so hard just for a mislynch as scum. Legolas I don't really know I just think he's an alright guy.
Nickleback and Inferno could be pretty much anything in the world and I would be none the wiser at this point. Inferno has a habit of showing up and saying 'yeah! that is how i feel also!' and then vanishing again. Could be scum taking the path of least resistance or just town who doesn't have a voice of their own. Nickleback is just bleh.
Rajam is like ten thousand Nicklebacks (band or player).
T-block slot is kinda scummy I guess? I see the 'fake'ness of his posts that was referred to.
Reaaaally don't like Gova, especially upon a Nich scum flip. Very 'voice of reason'-esque in the way he handles the subject, while still toeing the line between calling him town or scum. Gova, with the amount of material that has been presented at this point I find it very difficult to see you not forming ANY kind of read on Nich.
RR lump in with them inactive bunch.
Its a bit hectic but its what's on my mind
All the reads I had on the top of my head, I kept them as honest as I could in case I got NK'd, which means I wasn't going to commit to hard GRAAGH THIS GUY IS SCUM FOR SURE stances.
My way of telling Nich that the only person he had to blame for his death was himself.
OMG THIS IS FLUFF
Or I was just ready for the hammer to happen.
This has been done at least twice already. Read, Kantrip.
Kantrip questions me about my jump from Nichtown to shooting him. Not letting him ruin my gambit.
Kantrip, what's stopping you from reading during the night phase? The rest of town (I think?) is ready to go ahead with this lynch and get that flip out there.
Kantrip is also a starch supporter of keeping Nich alive, on the grounds that he wants to read and get his own opinion in the ring.
...but I don't know what he was hoping for. That he'd find something that would totally change everyone's minds maybe? I find it much much more likely that he is scum trying to buy time (still think he's scum, at the time I thought he was Nich's scummate). As is such, I push him a bit.
Kantrip, show me why he's town.
There it is! Like I said a second ago!
Okay. And when you get back, who do we lynch instead?
Honestly didn't care what his argument for Nichtown was going to be, unless it was something clearly wrong. The important thing was I let him think I was on board for his idea and let him suggest where we go instead.
@Glyph: I'll get a major scumpick when I'm finished.
@Nich: I'm kind of jumping around, looking at posts that recent quotes link me to and then working up a bit and then jumping back to the end when a new post shows up. I'll be done reading this evening for sure, probably after dinner.
BUT WHAT'S THIS?! Kantrip never actually produced a solid solution as to where else to go with the lynch, but still maintained the whole time that we shouldn't go through with it. If you ask me, he wanted the lynch to go through, but wanted to look like he didn't. If he REALLY was opposed to it, he would have come up with an alternate solution.
No clue as to who his scummates would be but if he flips town I will be looking back and checking to see who endorsed Ryker's case without really explaining why and having no reasons of their own to vote him. I can't remember anyone's stance on Nich that doesn't have something to do with Ryker's case at this point so I figure scum must be hiding behind the generalities of just agreeing with a giant case. This includes you, Legolas, Raziek, Glyph, and Inferno, RR and Nickel I think... I haven't checked back to see if you guys highlighted some stuff you agreed with and I've completely forgotten whether or you guys had independent reasoning as to why Nich was scum. Not to mention regardless of flip, I still have to look into Kantrip, Seph, RR, Nickel, and Inferno because there's just not much to go on.
I just have to say this is related to my read on Ryker from earlier which you expressed distaste for because it was meta. Ryker being motivated to play is more than likely a town tell which I said earlier so I don't see how you can dislike my reason when you're using this as a reason.
@Raziek, can't use red bro.
Ryker-meta part is directed at me
You posted that on page 11.
I posted that like last page, after Ryker built one of the biggest cases I've ever seen and stayed up like 6 hours crafting it.
That's a whole different ball game as far as 'motivation to play'. Before that really didn't strike me as much out of the ordinary for Ryker.
Clarifying my stance on it
It struck me as odd because I've been involved in every game he plays in someway or form. I noticed quicker than you is just the difference.
Okay, maybe you're right on that regard. Willing to concede that point.
And I concede that Gova's point was valid.
Personally I'd just end the damn day so we can move on with the game
Not even joking. I get that having a gameplan for every possible scenario is great on paper but we're also just burning time on situations that have potential to never come into play. Lots of effort, very little pay off.
Tired of D1. Want it to end. Not getting anything new.
@Red Ryu: Read on Glyph.
@Glyph: Could you give me a list of players you wouldn't want in LyLo?
4. NickelbackR0cks
5. Inferno3044
6. Nicholas1024
7. Kantrip
10. Rajam
11. Seph
Just personal preference, there's enough of people being ****s in this game without me driving this point any more than I need to.
Pointless question with an obvious answer. Never the less, answered because
it was asked of me.
Nich's reflect plan is still very unsound as the only way for it to be practical is to force a claim. Keep in mind that if a player is reflected an even number of times then nothing happens at all, and considering Priest is a pretty powerful power I would not be surprised to see several people picking it.
So unless we get someone to claim Priest (which guess what, is essentially like asking the doc to claim D1 for a one-shot cop) then there is way too many things that could go wrong. And on top of that, we don't know if Nich is telling the truth about his claim! If he's scum, then we're just giving him a night to use whatever power best benefits his faction and then doing his best to create havoc amongst the town.
Seriously, stop entertaining the idea that leaving him alive overnight for a very unlikely cop result is a reasonable course of action, especially considering his play.
Reiterating that leaving Nich alive is a bad bad plan, this post was made in the light of someone (I believe Inferno) starting to act as though they were considering Nich's idea.
Raziek should post so stuff can start happening again
Raziek you are making me so buttfrusterated by not posting, everyone's waiting on you at this point.
Me wanting the day to end again.
Us G names gotta vote together apparently
Only the R names could hope to stand against us
First post after the lynch went through. I guess it doesn't add anything to the game, and therefore I am scum for it.
Spoilers: No one is going to tell you that you played well this game Nich. Your death is completely warranted.
One last iteration that Nich was to blame for his death. He has since posted in the social thread accepting that, which I respect him greatly for.
[/collapse]
tl;dr:
Every damn last post I made was made for a reason. Even the one at the end where I'm joking around after the lynch was to help myself unwind after being in such hard core mafia mode for so long.
Read through this, I iterate not only where my reads where but where I was looking at people for being scum as well.
