Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia - Game Over!

[#HBC | J]

Because apparently OS and I have VERY different stances on what to do with a claimed indy.

If your opinion is to keep him around, you are wrong. The logic to keep him around is not sound.

Confirmed scum or a chance at possible scum.

 

[#HBC | J]

Also mafia would not want to lynch Gorf. They can't NK him and with Gorf they can force a prisoner's dilemma if it were to come down to it.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Nor do I intend to.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Wow, J ninja.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Mafia wants to lynch Gorf same as town wants to lynch Gorf. If they are at all threatened that they cannot win with him, they want him gone, same as I do. However, it's a point where you can see people react same as any other point.

And for the record. Ryker wants him gone and OS doesn't.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Also, Nabe, give me a read's list.

 

[#HBC | J]

Hydra heads are confusing.

I am not removing my vote from Gorf.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@ ranmaru Lynch me tomarrow I will self vote to prevent two priests going into a lylo sitation, would rather have J in lylo. Put your vote back on Gorf.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Why move me up the claim list if you town read me?


I don't think anyone should be giving Vult a town read. Look at how he joined the Bardull wagon in 2251+ 2252 and how he joined the Scary Wagon in 1599. Both of those votes looked super opportunistic IIRC, or in short they were buses. Also his stances this game are weak along with his questions.


KwK did not have 13 posts by the time of hammer, Ranmaru did...sooooo yeah.

you were my indy pick til Gorf claimed, dunno if Gova would put a second indy but not important atm.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@ ~ Gheb ~ :

What happened to your DSH scumread from D1?

It faded but I'll look at it again toMorrow. We'll lynch Gorf toDay.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

There are 10 players.

1 indie
9 players

2 scum were lynched.

If 3 scum

1 indie
1 scum
8 town

if 4 scum

1 indie
2 scum
7 town


It currently takes 6 to lynch and Gorf can't vote. Given the numbers I doubt we are in a 4 scum situation, but it's there.

We know certain people are most likely town or have no reason to suspect yet.

Carnage most likely town. 9-1 = 8.


3. Maximum Carnage - I know is town and most of you guys should know too. Literally cannot NKill while using his other, confirmable ability.
13. Nabe () - He's dead tonight. WHOOPS. Don't need to consider him.

6. J () - Pushed both lynches of scum hard. If he's scum he had to have double bussed.

Semi-suspects

14. Vult Redux () - Doomed Nabe. Not an unreasonable play at that time, tbh. Fits like Agrias from my FFT, which was a red herring.
10. Ranmaru () - Had some crazy gambit that could have gotten J lynched.
12. Gheb_01 - A gadgeteer takes one less to lynch so talk about easy pickins.... but has been supportive of town's actions as a whole.



Remaining Suspects
5. Detective Sherlock Hound () - Protected me, if I recall correctly. Confirmed Priesthood. Why protect Carnage? He certainly didn't do anything else though.
8. Dabunz () - I forget about this guy, I just remember "**** dabunz" a lot.
4. Kreative Whiz Kids () - I had stuff to say about this slot but cannot remember anything about it now. Whatever Ryker says I'll agree with.


indie
7. Gorf (5) Gheb, J, DSH, MC, KWK



Day 1

11. Jdietz43 (6) DSH, Scary, Vult, HBW, HBW, MC, Nabe, Nabe

You know who didn't want to lynch JDietz? ME. >:[

Yes I'm on it, but soldier. -_-;;


Who was on this lynch?

ME! I'm basically confirmed town or at least a confirmed "non threat".

Nabe? Doomed! He's ded.

Scary? FLIPPED MAFIA

HBW? FLIPPED MAFIA.

Remaining voters:
DSH - First on the vote
Vult - Doomed Nabe (who hammered JDietz)

SUSPECTS O_O

1. Bardull (7) Gheb, MC, KWK, Vult, J, Bardull, Bardull

MC? Again town.
Gheb? FIRST ON THE WAGON OF SCUM HOLY **** PRO TOWN MOVE HIGH ****ING FIVE GHEB.

KWK is THIRD?

J is FOURTH?

BARDULL SELF HAMMERS?!

Town win!

MAYBE J is scum in this scenario and bardull is just like "**** it, imma self hammer. vote for me and earn points."

9. LBScary59 (7) Gheb, Ranmaru, J, dabuz, dabuz, MC, KWK

MC? Again town.

Gheb? FIRST ON THE WAGON OF SCUM AGAIN OMG OMG OMG

Lynch gheb so he can't brag in post-game because he just did a double and is looking for a turkey

Ranmaru, J, and Dabuz all right smack in the middle. I don't think they'd bus given that this is the FIRST scum to go down... so WTF? Must be town amirite?

KWK hammers but is 3rd on the vote from bardull, remember? (That's why I did it outside of chronological order)

So non-scum:

Strong:
MC
Gheb
Ranmaru
J

Less Strong:
KWK
Dabuz

Weakest:
Vult


1. Bardull (7) Gheb, MC, KWK, Vult, J, Bardull, Bardull
9. LBScary59 (7) Gheb, Ranmaru, J, dabuz, dabuz, MC, KWK
11. Jdietz43 (6) DSH, Scary, Vult, HBW, HBW, MC, Nabe, Nabe

I PRESENT TO YOU THE REMAINING PLAYERS AND OUR VOTING POOL

Claimed Indie, no vote:
7. Gorf (5) Gheb, J, DSH, MC, KWK

Near confirmed Town:
3. Maximum Carnage ()
12. Gheb_01 (1) Ranmaru

Has lynched scum and wasn't on the tail end of the FIRST SCUM LYNCH (most important):
6. J ()
8. Dabunz ()
10. Ranmaru ()

Has lynched scum and wasn't on the tail end of the SECOND SCUM LYNCH ( less important due to self hammer and surprise factor):
14. Vult Redux ()
4. Kreative Whiz Kids ()

Not confirmed town:
5. Detective Sherlock Hound ()


Is going to die toNight:
13. Nabe ()



WHY ARE WE LYNCHING GORF INSTEAD OF DSH, WHO HAS ONLY VOTED ON THE TOWN LYNCH?

WHY ARE WE NOT LYNCHING VULT WHO DOOMED NABE AND IS ONLY ON THE TAIL END OF BARDULL'S LYNCH?

WHY ARE WE NOT LYNCHING KWK WHO FINISHED OFF A GUARANTEED LYNCH AND IS ONLY MARGINALLY GETTING BROWNIE POINTS FOR THE BARDULL LYNCH?


In what universe is lynching Gorf a "win" for us?

If mafia can "use him against us" that means he is telling the truth about his win condition. ****** can't vote and is gonna do whatever the hell we say EVERY NIGHT or we lynch him. We get close to lylo? We lynch him prior. Zero risk unless he's got some crazy abilities we don't know about, but unless you think this game has 3 mafia and a recruiter indie I don't forsee it coming.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Decent analysis, I agree with a lot of it except for not lynching Gorf toDay. But I admit, your observations on Ran give us a lot to think about and I'm glad you brought up KWK as a suspect because I can't be the only one who wants to consider him.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

The lynching of Gorf today is foolhardy.

Tomorrow? I can potentially see that.

Evidence doesn't add up for lynching Gorf today.

In DGames, claimed indies are killed 99.99~% of the time.
Gorf has no vote
Gorf has claimed indie when he was in no way forced to do so; no one even suspected him of indie and he could have easily lied
The "rules" have not particularly helped mafia (seriously, look at them) which means Gorf isn't mafia and has been actively hurting mafia


In 100% of the cases in which the above are true, Gorf cannot win tonight.

If you think he's a recruiter, sure, that's fine. I can see lynching him.

But an indie recruiter rule-maker I do not really see in this setup.


If Gorf cannot win tonight then we can make him make a law which hurts scum. We can actively prevent scum tom foolery. You guys always ***** about "not being able to fully analyze night results" because "what about redirect / roleblock / blind / whatever" and throw them out the window. Well lo and behold here is Gorf and he's got himself an anti-scum sledgehammer and we can remove that dickery right away. J and DSH can protect two SEPARATE PEOPLE out of our EIGHT POSSIBLE VICTIMS and scum can't redirect or roleblock them?

Hell yeah. I'll take a 25% chance of scum losing their NKill when they haven't successfully gotten one off yet.

Ranmaru can investigate KWK or Vult guaranteed

We can lynch the other



Hell, you know what we can do?

We can make everyone's last post divisible by 5 by having Gheb and Me post and just have Gheb mass roleblock every Night and then have Gorf prevent redirects, reflections, and recruiting.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

We can make everyone's last post divisible by 5 by having Gheb and Me post and just have Gheb mass roleblock every Night and then have Gorf prevent redirects, reflections, and recruiting.

Can't use the same ability two Nights in row.

 

[Vult Redux]

mc's vote analysis doesn't account for some timing/situational factors that aren't visible through votes (e.g. my commitment to the scary wagon despite not having the vote there at the time of hammer).

I also am willing to agree to a Gorf lynch toMorrow if we lynch Ryu (or KwK I guess) toDay. Especially if he flips Mafia and we don't win, but even if he doesn't flip Mafia, as long as Night actions don't make a different player obvMafia.

whoever said mafia would want to save gorf is redic. Law-making ability limits Mafia choices and lets the Town interpret Night information better.

sorry about misinterpreting hammer. I still think Kwk's vote was bad, and we know that he wasn't trying very hard to not hammer seeing as he wasn't paying attention to votes well (ref: 2492).

Basically I want Gorf wagoners to reconsider moving the lynch to toMorrow because it would be in our best interest in the long run. Let's lynch DSH or KwK instead.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I won't be voting Gorf toDay, and wouldn't ever given the chance to do so. On the play side of things, he hasn't shown a single agenda all game except survival. When I loaned him my vote in D1, he didn't try to make anything of the opportunity. In subsequent Days, he hasn't done anything except to float.

And while the argument to lynch him seems compelling, it basically amounts to, "We have room to do so." This is not a reason or a stance, it's the equivalent of a shrug. It's an excuse for the mafia to take a free lynch without punishment, and it removes one shot at catching mafia. The coming Nights are going to see this player list whittled down.

And much of Gorf's claim is proven -- if his wincon is a lie, if there's even potential for a lie (which I don't think there is), he is still stuck sitting around and using the ability we know he has to our gain. This ability, it's worth noting, is extremely powerful, leaving little to no room for any other ability from a balancing perspective. So there is no potential for danger in leaving Gorf alive until toMorrow at least, and very little moving forward past that. On the contrary, there's a lot to be gained by whittling down the mafia pool as much as we possibly can.


Mafia lies in:

• Ran, first and foremost, on what I strongly believe is a scumslip
• Ryu
• KWK
• Thennnnn Vult/Gheb if we've lynched this far down the line (doubtful)

Mafia doesn't lie in:

• Gorf

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Vote: Ranmaru

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Can't use the same ability two Nights in row.

.

Ah, good catch. I forgot about that.

Everyone should keep this in mind though. They should also keep in mind that Gheb himself could send in a NKill as could people with lvl 1 soldier (but you can eliminate their soldier ability if you need to)

mc's vote analysis doesn't account for some timing/situational factors that aren't visible through votes (e.g. my commitment to the scary wagon despite not having the vote there at the time of hammer).

I also am willing to agree to a Gorf lynch toMorrow if we lynch Ryu (or KwK I guess) toDay. Especially if he flips Mafia and we don't win, but even if he doesn't flip Mafia, as long as Night actions don't make a different player obvMafia.

whoever said mafia would want to save gorf is redic. Law-making ability limits Mafia choices and lets the Town interpret Night information better.

sorry about misinterpreting hammer. I still think Kwk's vote was bad, and we know that he wasn't trying very hard to not hammer seeing as he wasn't paying attention to votes well (ref: 2492).

Basically I want Gorf wagoners to reconsider moving the lynch to toMorrow because it would be in our best interest in the long run. Let's lynch DSH or KwK instead.

Yes, entirely; I really should have clarified but that analysis was solely abstract from the votes. I find that the best way to analyze to start, but a re-read upon not having any leads is definitely something people should do. I just know I myself find it very easy as scum to 'bus' my teammates with words but not actions and people somehow find that worthwhile when it really isn't... so I tend to avoid it. I agree with you having a say in the scary wagon.

I'd be down for a Ryu or KWK lynch today. I don't see the Ranmaru lynch as a strong possibility toDay solely due to the claimed one-shot cop; he can use it toNight on whoever we say. If he lies, we lynch him after. If he doesn't, we get a clear or confirmed scum lynch.

Lynch Ryu or KWK, investigate the other?



I can't remove my vote from the Gorf wagon without another wagon being viable; I have to maintain my soldier ability to prevent mafia from being able to NKill me covertly. As it stands I am invincible in all situations but lylo as mafia attempting to NKill me take 2 less votes to lynch. If they can RB me (and we know Gheb can at least) then they can kill me.

If you hammer someone without me being on it, you're a scummer. >:[


Also out of respect for my other head, I'm not switching my vote willy-nilly.

I have no say on whether Ryu or KWK would be a better lynch for toDay as I haven't had time to re-read (it's a busy time for colleges and I'm getting married in two weeks) and would let my other head spearpoint that. If someone wants to put forth some analysis I'd love to read it.


...am I going to be the only married DGamer? o_O

 

[Maximum Carnage]

I won't be voting Gorf toDay, and wouldn't ever given the chance to do so. On the play side of things, he hasn't shown a single agenda all game except survival. When I loaned him my vote in D1, he didn't try to make anything of the opportunity. In subsequent Days, he hasn't done anything except to float.

And while the argument to lynch him seems compelling, it basically amounts to, "We have room to do so." This is not a reason or a stance, it's the equivalent of a shrug. It's an excuse for the mafia to take a free lynch without punishment, and it removes one shot at catching mafia. The coming Nights are going to see this player list whittled down.

And much of Gorf's claim is proven -- if his wincon is a lie, if there's even potential for a lie (which I don't think there is), he is still stuck sitting around and using the ability we know he has to our gain. This ability, it's worth noting, is extremely powerful, leaving little to no room for any other ability from a balancing perspective. So there is no potential for danger in leaving Gorf alive until toMorrow at least, and very little moving forward past that. On the contrary, there's a lot to be gained by whittling down the mafia pool as much as we possibly can.


Mafia lies in:

• Ran, first and foremost, on what I strongly believe is a scumslip
• Ryu
• KWK
• Thennnnn Vult/Gheb if we've lynched this far down the line (doubtful)

Mafia doesn't lie in:

• Gorf

What was Ran's scumslip? I'm not against a Ranmaru lynch eventually, but don't feel he's the strongest lynch mechanics-wise. I could be convinced otherwise though.

10 remaining, 9 pool. Lynch one non-ranmaru, one dies, 8 remaining 7 pool.

Ran claims guilty on X, we lynch X he flips town, one dies, 6 remaining 5 pool.

Lynch Ran, game not over, one dies, 4 remaining 3 pool with one indie. Sheeeeeeeeeeeet if there is 4 mafia. If there isn't we'd just win and lawl.


I doubt two NKills would occur and that there'd be 4 mafia, but it's a nightmare scenario we should account for.



Ran claims town on X, we feel stuck at 0. Lynch one, one dies, 6 remaining, 5 pool. Probably would lynch Ran to confirm the towniness of townie investigation.

Feel the pinch, lynch indie, one dies, 4 remaining.

Given the game's constructs, I'd be one of the 4 remaining. Assuming you guys could trust me, everyone would have a 50% chance of finding the last scum there. If we could have J or Ryu protect the town result, it'd be between two people guaranteed.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Handorin is also married I think.

Mafia doesn't lie in:

• Gorf

... is that so? How do you know?

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Handorin is also married I think.



... is that so? How do you know?

I'll take "Mafia don't claim indie and expect to win" for 500, Alex.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Didn't Ran say he already used his ability on J, and got a Town result?

Gorf isn't mafia because he's been an absentee player doing nothing to further mafia goals while the rest of the faction falls around him. The only agenda he's shown for the entire game was disliking Scary, and when I offered my vote for the purpose he was content about it without pushing further or changing his mind. It was likely geared around looking to be doing something. And he didn't argue against either scum lynch when they went on iirc.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I HOPE IM ALIVE.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I don't even feel that way.

I claimed Indy survivor in itrick'd 1 and still got lynched solely off the fact I claimed Indy.

Kuz even said that was correct and laundry I already quoted and posted his explosion post where he yelled at everyone fir not voting me.

Talk to me post game if you still think it's wrong, you can't trust a claimed Indy.

Who the **** cares if you claimed Indy survivor. I'd kill one too.

I'm an Indy who's role is too god damn powerful to be anything else. Ask yourself. With what I claimed (AND OF WHICH IS COMPLETELY PROVABLE MIND YOU), aside from my wincon, is there ANYTHING else I can have up my sleeve? Please tell me. No. There's not. Cool. If it's close to endgame LYNCH MY ASS! It's that simple!

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

because he's on contract and once he listens to one thing we ask of him he has to listen to the rest of him

he was a detriment to have around and we are in a great spot, im glad he'll be out of the picture

only 1 scum left to find with only 2 townies dead, TOTAL

e z p z

I put myself on contract. Idiot. I was in no pressure position. I feel like winning and the fact that I'm confident in 3 maf and the fact that I win with you made me say "ahh **** it it'll help the already advantageous faction if I full claim, and they won't believe my powers town, so claim Indy it is."

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Oh cool, not even a hammer yet.

If anyone has questions, ask me now since I won't be here Fri. + Saturday.

Gorf lynch still makes sense toDay because confirmed INDY and all that jazz.

Confirmed ****** but OBV town makes me sad.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Also mafia would not want to lynch Gorf. They can't NK him and with Gorf they can force a prisoner's dilemma if it were to come down to it.

BUT YOU GUYS ARE IN A FANTASTIC POSITION. Has that just not clicked? I WANT Y'ALL TO WIN SO I CAN WIN AS WELL. I JUST WANT TO WIN. USING ME CAN ASSURE THAT WE WIN AND THAT WE DO IT FAST! I CAN CONFIRM ROLES. MY PR IS CONFIRMED.

Jesus. It's like... It's like hitler saying "kill all the Jews" and someone comes around and says "but what about Albert Einstein" and hitler goes back n says "NOPE STILL JEWS." If you kill me you're all anti simetics.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Hydra heads are confusing.

I am not removing my vote from Gorf.

You are a raging anti semitic.

Sorry for the previous typo.

 

[ranmaru]

@ #HBC | Nabe . I skimmed that post, because to me it seemed like reads changing on MC. I missed the part of you RB'ing MC, which is evident in me asking you on your thoughts on MC (yet you didn't answer). I didn't care to go any further because I didn't want to talk too much about you/MC, because I was trying to stay safe as the cop. I in no way analyzed your post and then thought "Oh ok, this will definitely destroy my case, I'll just not use it." I was also ignoring your jabs at me. (You seem off, why are you swearing [when I swear occasionally]). Your point is that I would have weighed everything as carefully as possible, but that's not what I did. I picked what I felt was important, posted it in my evernote, and then typed my thoughts on each quote/link's relevance.

You also forget it is harder to find evidence through many pages. You have to understand I'd try to get the things I find most suspicious instead of using more time to gather up ALL YOUR POSTS. Now, if we had an ISO system like MafiaScum, I could have less points here since it'd be easy to bring up posts in that way. (I wish we could implement something like that)

So you can say I skimmed it and missed the part where you RB'd MC and I jumped the gun with my gut feeling of you both being scum. That is why my last point in my case on you was weakened, because I missed that. Me jumping the gun makes sense as my theory of MC bussing you quite early was already dismantled by Dabuz instantly, and I backed down from that.

You are also not really considering the rest of my play when it comes to your scum read on me, and simply on the case on you. This is more of an OMGUS than a scumread. Before that you only had me as townlean to null?

 

[ranmaru]

Also at the moment now, I don't feel you are scum seeing Bardull flipping scum as well. You'll have to admit that your and MC's play D1 distracted me from sticking to Bardull. There was reason for me to have problem with your play. I felt odd about your and MC's interactions but after looking up the posts, it led me to a Nabe scumread instead of an actual theory of "MC and Nabe are scum together". That is why I voted you first.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Reading the thread.

~Ryker

 

[ranmaru]

@ ranmaru Lynch me tomarrow I will self vote to prevent two priests going into a lylo sitation, would rather have J in lylo. Put your vote back on Gorf.

No. If we are worried about him we can just lynch him one day away from Lylo.

 

[ranmaru]

It faded but I'll look at it again toMorrow. We'll lynch Gorf toDay.

So if we didn't lynch Gorf, you'd be fine with lynching Ryu, right?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@ #HBC | Nabe . I skimmed that post, because to me it seemed like reads changing on MC. I missed the part of you RB'ing MC, which is evident in me asking you on your thoughts on MC (yet you didn't answer). I didn't care to go any further because I didn't want to talk too much about you/MC, because I was trying to stay safe as the cop. I in no way analyzed your post and then thought "Oh ok, this will definitely destroy my case, I'll just not use it." I was also ignoring your jabs at me. (You seem off, why are you swearing [when I swear occasionally]). Your point is that I would have weighed everything as carefully as possible, but that's not what I did. I picked what I felt was important, posted it in my evernote, and then typed my thoughts on each quote/link's relevance.

They weren't jabs; I was responding to a ****ing question that you asked. But what you're saying you did is exactly what I'm accusing you of doing. You started with the idea of Nabescum with MC, then built a case to suit that need by cherry-picking the relevant posts. There's a disparity here between what a townie would do (come to a conclusion about a player by reading their posts) and what you did (conclude, then choose posts to suit that conclusion).

You also forget it is harder to find evidence through many pages. You have to understand I'd try to get the things I find most suspicious instead of using more time to gather up ALL YOUR POSTS.

If you skimmed to find evidence, then you knew it was there. You also should have known it was there by reading through the game the first time. And another post you would have known was there: a post your attention was brought to twice concerning my take on my interactions with MC, which should have been evidence in a case about my interactions with MC. And the kicker: you already admitted to knowing it was there, understanding its content, and not addressing it, which was the point of my case on you. It's proof that you started with your conclusion, rather than reaching it as town through skim-bias as might have been the case. Are you recanting that admission, or do you otherwise take issue to my holding it as an admission?

You are also not really considering the rest of my play when it comes to your scum read on me, and simply on the case on you. This is more of an OMGUS than a scumread. Before that you only had me as townlean to null?

When a player scumslips, you tend to focus on that detail.

 

[Vult Redux]

@ #HBC | Gorf More likely scum is Kwk or Ryu?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Gheb why did you blind when it was going to hit Ran? I just thought why did you do this when it going to halt his report?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

No. If we are worried about him we can just lynch him one day away from Lylo.

Two days, because people lose there votes at times.

Also nonsense since he can decide to **** us over later if he wants.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Who the **** cares if you claimed Indy survivor. I'd kill one too.

I'm an Indy who's role is too god damn powerful to be anything else. Ask yourself. With what I claimed (AND OF WHICH IS COMPLETELY PROVABLE MIND YOU), aside from my wincon, is there ANYTHING else I can have up my sleeve? Please tell me. No. There's not. Cool. If it's close to endgame LYNCH MY ***! It's that simple!

I don't care how special your role is or if you pinky promise to town side.

You're an Indy and I have zero reason to trust you on that alone.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll take "Mafia don't claim indie and expect to win" for 500, Alex.

Glyph did it in bingo mafia and I've seen games on mafia scum where they did as well.

They can win if people but into it, also congrats on the wedding OS.

I'm not moving my vote.

 

[ranmaru]

Glyph did it in bingo mafia

Then he deserved it because we read it wrong.