Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia - Game Over!

[Maximum Carnage]

I was voting all of Day 1, but it was only toward the end that I switched to a more relevant wagon. I didn't change my vote because I wasn't caught up enough to make a fair judgment about which wagon to choose.

my scumlist is very sad because most players have done things that like at least somewhat. My strong townreads are Dabuz and Nabe (again, as of toDay) while Gheb, Acro, HBW, MC, and DSH have all said things that I agree with / I think are town at some point.

By backup wagon of choice would be J but he isn't even that scummy; to the point where I'm not comfortable pushing that way right now.

If we had reason to believe that the NKill was blocked and have evidence of a player being blocked...

of the entire playerlist is there anyone you wouldn't want to lynch on that metric when it is placed side-by-side with their play?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Raz is play?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

raz is acro

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Ohhh okay Swiss replaced laundry got it. Still what I said stands, Raz left no lasting impression on me either so yea

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

So now my project is done for school.

Working on Dabuz stuff.

@ Maximum Carnage @ #HBC | Nabe

I'd prefer we work out the situation you guys are doing atm sooner than later, I am picking up aspects of what you two are talking about and lost on others. I'd prefer we solve this over waiting til too close til deadline.

Are we waiting on Swiss in this situation?

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

unvote

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Vote Scary

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

What's the difference between the two?

Between Town Scary and Scum Scary, where his priorities seem to be.

What else would Scary need to do for you to pin a scum read on him?

Trying to see what his main goal is, the thing is I don't see what he has done this game that is only pertaining to scum behavior. I do think he has been scummy at points but I think this still can be attributed to his ability rather than being scummy. It's tricky, It's not meta outside of his experience, he isn't as experianced as a lot of players in this game, and I think people lose sight of this in games.

Like how people have been jumping and hounding Scary this game. I think someone for him would get lost in something like that if people kept super pressure on him, I dunno if he can handle that if people are quick to snap at him.

I'll give you half a point on comparing this to Rake. Only half though because pretty much everyone was fine with Rake dying (except Ryker because when everyone is ok with a slot dying, normally that slot isn't scum), however in this game we have a few slots not ok with the slot dying. I believe those slots are: You, HBW, Acrostic, Gheb.

Not in the game I referenced, G3S is where Rake called out Scary and ignored his experience, me and others weren't liking how people were ignoring this since it does play a part in how you can read a slot.

I don't think Scary is scum, rather he got caught up in a situation people are calling scummy when he really got lost in the situation.

You should read back to posts approx. 855, 1225, and 672 + the couple pages following it to get a good idea of why we think he's scummy. The short version is that he hasn't been pushing or asking questions, (this goes against his normal town play) his actual reads have bad substantiation and this was shown because he didn't react well when pressured on such.

I'll check these again but again, these can be just him not reacting as he does under pressure and his experience. Bad substantiation and reacted bad to pressure, yeah I can agree here, but I don't think he was scummy over bad.

This is a tricky situation, not one that I think is easy for me to read, but I'm more inclined here to side with him being town than scummy. I'll vote him if we are deadlined, but really I can't side with lynching him.

Vote: J

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

I'm atually willing to cut them some slack in case you didn't notice. ToDay is going to be a case between Acro and Scary imo. I'm just not sure about who should goes first yet.

Gheb DSH and HBW have pretended to be pushing a DSH and HBW Dietz lynch all Day but never actually made any effort to convince people and their cases are weak too. The argument playing bad about whiteknighting and cockblocking has been completely blown out of proportion by both slots as an excuse to not push their agenda harder. Take into account how certain both players have been that DSH and HBW Dietz is scum - there wasn't even the slightest glimpse of doubt to them that it can only be that way and no other. And yet he doesn't push a slot he is J's and Town PR's lack of support supposedly is enough to sabotage the lynch of a slot both are 100% sure *must* be scum. That's so ridiculously fishy, I can't be the only one who has a huge issue with how easily they get away with that bull**** play.

If Dietz actually flips scum and DSH and HBW are both town I'm going to **** a brick. Either Dietz is going to flip town or at least one of them two players have bussed him.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Dat callout.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'm Sage Lv 1, and I targeted @ScaryLB59 and @ Maximum Carnage last Night. ToDay, I have two MOD votes.

Illusionist Lv 2:

Lv2. Wild Tornado - Anyone who uses an ability (not including global abilities) on you will take two less to lynch the next day. This cannot go below one to lynch. You may not use any other abilities while using this skill. This is a global effect and does not target an individual player.

Naturally, an ability like this comes early if not first in the action resolution. It's also the only public ability that gives players two MOD votes. So the possibility follows that one of the two players I targeted is an Illusionist Lv 2, and used that ability last Night. That's the reason that Swiss is also relevant; presumably, WL also targeted an Illusionist Lv 2 last Night.

MC is going to claim Illusionist Lv 2. And Scary was asked outright, and is not claiming that. So, if Swiss claims to have targeted MC last Night, then MC is an Illusionist Lv 2. (Or there's an unknown scum ability that gives townies multiple MOD votes, which seems unlikely.)


Notice this part of the role also:

You may not use any other abilities while using this skill.

MC couldn't have made an NK last Night. So, if my roleblock did block a kill last Night, that kill was Scary. I also doubt that MC has any sort of Dooming reactive passive in conjunction with a Lv 2 choice, if he were scum. Coupled with reasoning addressed by others on Scary, I think that lynch is a good move toDay.

 

[ranmaru]

You guys forget that BardulL's slot didn't get any modvotes as a double voter ToDay. Keep that in the back of your minds.

 

[ranmaru]

Vote: J

Why are you voting J?

Vote: Scary

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

I don't like how he jumped into the thread on D2 and I don't like his approach to Scary.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

You guys forget that BardulL's slot didn't get any modvotes as a double voter ToDay. Keep that in the back of your minds.

I didn't forget crap, but it doesn't mean he's scum.


We need to know who Swiss targeted, because he's also a Sage level 1 I'd imagine.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Why are you voting J?

Vote: Scary

How about you also comment on Carnage/Nabe stuff, reading into it atm.

 

[ranmaru]

Why are you voting him now rather than doing that when he approached Scary?

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Unvote

While I read the roles again.

 

[ranmaru]

Have no problem with it. Do you have a concern with them? Let me know if so.

Btw, what is your read on me? Just wondering.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Oh and by the by, this essentially makes me bulletproof because if I die then we'll know who targeted me. So, cool.

*flex*

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Can everyone bug @Swiss for me? I'd prefer a full claim from him because this could easily be a domino day with the amount of info we have.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

I'm Sage Lv 1, and I targeted @ScaryLB59 and @ Maximum Carnage last Night. ToDay, I have two MOD votes.

Illusionist Lv 2:


Naturally, an ability like this comes early if not first in the action resolution. It's also the only public ability that gives players two MOD votes. So the possibility follows that one of the two players I targeted is an Illusionist Lv 2, and used that ability last Night. That's the reason that Swiss is also relevant; presumably, WL also targeted an Illusionist Lv 2 last Night.

MC is going to claim Illusionist Lv 2. And Scary was asked outright, and is not claiming that. So, if Swiss claims to have targeted MC last Night, then MC is an Illusionist Lv 2. (Or there's an unknown scum ability that gives townies multiple MOD votes, which seems unlikely.)


Notice this part of the role also:


MC couldn't have made an NK last Night. So, if my roleblock did block a kill last Night, that kill was Scary. I also doubt that MC has any sort of Dooming reactive passive in conjunction with a Lv 2 choice, if he were scum. Coupled with reasoning addressed by others on Scary, I think that lynch is a good move toDay.

So what you are saying is, it is possible that Scary sent out the night kill and you blocked it, and this is confirmed due to the modvotes you got.

Swiss/WL targeted an illusionist late night, more likely MC unless someone else is an illusionist.

So People think Scary is scummy and he was roleblocked last night.

What do you think of the kill being blocked by something else last night?

 

[ranmaru]

Sure @ Maximum Carnage , but only if you help bug Acrostic who has yet to comment on HBW/BardulL.

@Swiss: GET THE **** IN HERE CMON YOU BISCUIT MCMUFFIN BAGEL.
@Acrostic: Want your thoughts on HBW/BardulL like you promised.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Oh and by the by, this essentially makes me bulletproof because if I die then we'll know who targeted me. So, cool.

*flex*

This role is lol.

Unless mafia can counteract it somehow.

What do you think about something else stopping the night kill?

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Have no problem with it. Do you have a concern with them? Let me know if so.

Btw, what is your read on me? Just wondering.

I hate your directions with reads but town.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Rereading the roles, unless it is mafia specific I don't see how they can counter illusionist lvl 2 if a lot of people took it.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

So what you are saying is, it is possible that Scary sent out the night kill and you blocked it, and this is confirmed due to the modvotes you got.

Swiss/WL targeted an illusionist late night, more likely MC unless someone else is an illusionist.

So People think Scary is scummy and he was roleblocked last night.

That's the gist.

What do you think of the kill being blocked by something else last night?

I have no way to tell if the kill was stopped by anything else. But a Scary lynch will be productive. Unless it clears Scary outright or incriminates another player, I don't want a kill-stopping CC from anyone.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

This role is lol.

Unless mafia can counteract it somehow.

What do you think about something else stopping the night kill?

There's plenty of ways to counteract it. The most obvious is to do exactly what I'm doing right now. Who's going to target me next Night? No one! If they do and I die, it'll be a 50% chance of them getting killed when it would be 100% chance for scum otherwise.

I won't go into the others because I'm the only one that knows for sure what'd work or not. But trust me, Illusionist isn't broken for town. It's most useful when there's only one or two people using it (as if everyone is using it, you eventually have to consider them lynch options anyway) and works similar to a bulletproof guy.

 

[ranmaru]

Nabe, talk to me. Why do you think MC was pushing you all day yesTerday? Today you are working on a lynch that I agree with, but i'm just wondering how you feel about him regardless.

 

[ranmaru]

EBWOP: *Today you two are working on

 

[Maximum Carnage]

I have no way to tell if the kill was stopped by anything else. But a Scary lynch will be productive. Unless it clears Scary outright or incriminates another player, I don't want a kill-stopping CC from anyone.

Bull****, I want all of 'em.


If you think you stopped a kill, say something after @Swiss claims. What's the worst that's gonna happen? You're not special. Your goal is to find scum and if we do then awesome.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

@ Maximum Carnage I might have stopped the kill last night.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Great, you've made yourself a mafia target and still haven't said the thing that Town needs to know.

Just claim how. Seriously, mass claiming isn't going to be a huge deal. It happened the last FFT. Mafia will have unique roles and they have to dance around their fake claims. If they think someone might be blocking their kills, they'll kill 'em, but we can't do anything without more concrete information.

What's mafia gonna do? Kill you, me, AND Nabe?

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Our lvl 2 is priest we Protected Hardbody Warrior last night.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Also means we can't hammer anyone.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Important question at DSH though: what do you think of a Scary lynch?

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Important question at DSH though: what do you think of a Scary lynch?

I'm more willing to support it with your information, but I am considering the alternatives happened, I stopped the night kill/etc.

 

[ranmaru]

Why are you voting him [J] now rather than doing that when he approached Scary?

@ Detective Sherlock Hound

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

@ Detective Sherlock Hound

Deitz flip and how he entered D2.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It's possible that I have stopped the kill. In fact, it's the most likely scenario because I have roleblocked no less than 4 players toNight - Gorf, DSH, Acrostic and Scary. Scary flipping town would not clear HBW via DSH's claim.