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Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia - Game Over!

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,563
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Scratch that slight scum lean. He's creeping up towards a sliiiiiight townlean due to the way Ryker's lookin' like he's digging his heels in. I like the way he's recently got at me and Laundry regarding a scumread of his that he feels is being ignored in Nabe and it's making me wonder if I'm being too lenient with the slot. Going back and forth on this but I still REALLY want JD first and doubt I'll change my mind.

What do you think of Nabe?
Ehh. I feel like the dig is unjustified. Laundry puts it best when he says that they're attacking Nabe on what are null tells for Nabe. Say that he's being useless, I (almost) won't deny that. But it's like reading Raz. The guy is a late game player, and nothing from his play shows scum for me. Ryker for one definitely knows this, and OS is exploiting it. Like a lot. Definitely down for JD first, but good to know where your heads at as far as Carnage.

J has the potential to be wrong. I dislike J as well. What Nabe is doing has no potential for being a townie being wrong: it is either a townie playing against town's best interest intentionally or scum playing like scum.
Like, who is Carnage to say that Nabe is playing against towns best interest? In LM when I played like a stoner/brashly, I was playing towards towns best interest even though nobody realized it. Who's to say that he's not playing toward towns best interest? This isn't play you lynch on D1.
 

Maximum Carnage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
296
I (Ryker) could see through your persona. I (Ryker) have defended Moriarty as readable in more than one game where he was lynched because he ONLY posted pictures. I (Ryker) have played a hydra with math puns so thick they obscured my meaning some of the time.

This is not NEARLY the same thing.
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,563
Location
Jacksonville, FL
MARSHY IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL GET OFF OF NABE AND YOU WILL GO BACK TO JDIETZ. YOU WERE DOING SO GOOD MANNING THE HARDBODY FOR US COME ON I KNOW YOU WANT TO.
 

Town PR

DtJ Glyphmoney|Ranmaru
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
83
I wanna see try to see their basis for JD over me; To try and understand where they are coming from in comparison.
Why should there be a comparison?

Why ask Scary? Scary doesn't bring weight. Marshy and Alex bring weight. You would undermine another wagon that I don't want to happen over Nabe.

What has you set off about Raz?
Why does it matter that you get weight onto your wagon? Rather, why wouldn't you want a weak vote that you can easily pile on? Sort of bordering onto theory, just wondering why it is a big deal.

Raz said himself that he has trouble getting into the game and saying things as mafia. I was merely going off that, and would have hoped for at least some contribution, but there was none. That's about it. Not something I'd push for RIGHT NOW or even earlier, it's something I'd hope to see develop over a long period of time (his play), yet I can't have that. Now it's up to Acro. Yet I still prefer Raz over Nabe simply due to that.

Wait Town PR, just let Acrostic post for Raz. Raz never does ****; Acro has independent thoughts that should be readable if I'm remembering his play from Sephiroth correctly.
I know that. Yet we don't have Acrostic in yet. I have already stated I'm interested in what he'd bring to the table. That's just how I feel wrt Raz, who left me blue-balled. (Prolly for Bradford)
 

Maximum Carnage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
296
I'm not turning away any votes. If I did, it would be mechanics related and involve double voters. If it's a mafia theory question, talk to me about it another time. If you need it for something in this game, ask again.

As for the second part, ok. I have no further questions at this time.
 

Maximum Carnage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
296
Raz said himself that he has trouble getting into the game and saying things as mafia. I was merely going off that, and would have hoped for at least some contribution, but there was none. That's about it. Not something I'd push for RIGHT NOW or even earlier, it's something I'd hope to see develop over a long period of time (his play), yet I can't have that. Now it's up to Acro. Yet I still prefer Raz over Nabe simply due to that.
Raz has trouble getting into games period. Go look at MMU. He posted 91 times. The MOD posted 61 times. Raziek ended the game right before a 3 man lylo and was town.

Potassium, lynched D1, had 141 posts. =P

So I don't buy the "trouble getting into the game and saying things as mafia" meta, the evidence being literally the last game he completed.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
2,452
I don't understand why someone else is defending my slot. Is there an underlying reason to you doing this? Or are you just being objective. Because there is a more reasonable response than addressing the validity of the meta, which is asking Town PR if he is really scum reading my slot based on Raziek self-stated meta and attributing that to a game that has 25 pages of 'material' to gauge reads, yet despite the contributions today we have a stated preferred lynch option due to a personal confession that Raziek has butterflies when he is scum. Also I'm not keeping up chronologically in the > 48 hours remaining because by the time I catch up the day phase is going to end. However, I don't understand why Town PR contracted his own argument stating he would prefer me over Nabe as a conclusive statement, despite stating that he wanted to observe a Nabe lynch over the long term. If I'm not mistaken, a Nabe lynch is happening right now. Why even bother mentioning that you wanted to see Raziek play when you are stating that you prefer our slot to be lynched over a lynch that is happening now with the justification that Raziek replaced out and your long-term read is shot. Is it because my replacement is unpromising. However, this also doesn't make sense because he also writes that he's interested in me bringing my thoughts to the table. The only context that the prior written content makes sense is that Town PR had wanted Raz to play in the game and because he replaced out, he disappointed Town PR's stated interest in the slot resulting in him stating an interest in lynching our slot over Nabe's slot. Which to put it simply is a really ****ing ******** statement to even make in the first place.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖
Joined
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Messages
2,452
If Town PR really thinks my slot is mafia because of the aforementioned reason, then I will take it into consideration. See you guys in 15 hours.
 

Maximum Carnage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
296
I don't understand why someone else is defending my slot. Is there an underlying reason to you doing this? Or are you just being objective.
Because when someone says something that just isn't true, there's no "read" to be earned from a response from any player. It's just not something that's true. Especially when it's something like an opinion on a player who replaced out and can't defend himself. Easier to just point and say "look, the sky is blue, just look".
 

Detective Sherlock Hound

Dooms|Red Ryu
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
224
Location
Red Ryu/Joey
Lets see if I remember -

1. Nameless (marshy/Sworddancer.) - Gonna let him do his thing, like what he has done thus far. - Town lean.

2. Raziek - Don't recall, saw acro posts, Acro is a tougher cookie to crack, unsure on this note.

3. Ryker - Cop this slot ASAP, I hate how they handled Laundry and Gheb earlier because it reminds me of past games hwere Ryker would keep his mates at arms length and only push them if it made him look good. The way earlier Gheb Laundry post definably makes me think this,

4. WashedLaundry - I don't like the inactivity, but at the same time unsure I haven't looked deeply at what he has done,

5. Detective Sherlock Hound (Joey/Red Ruy) -


6. J - J is...uhhh, idk this one needs a reread.

7. Gorf - He's fine atm.

8. Dabuz - Second pick after Dietz.

9. LBScary59 - I hate people voting him because it is too easy and not warrented.

10. Town PR (Glyph/Ranmaru) - People think this slot is scum, why?

11. Jdietz43 - Scum, needs to die ASAP.

12. Gheb_01 - Don't like his recent posts but it might just be him not liking what people where doing, should press this later.

13. Nabe - Please <3 me if you are town. :(

14. Vult Redux - I like what he has done thus far, though not as front line.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
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Messages
27,486
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Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
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...


K then...
Ok mr. I am town, you claimed Priest, ok, why does this make you town, you could have taken reflect easily. (ps, blame recent games if you think I am playing like a douchebag) But tell me here, what do you see in everyone and I mean full readlist.
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
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So JD according to your genius level logic Ruy can't be scum cuz his scum team just would NOT allow him to post while he's schwasted right?
 

Jdietz43

BRoomer
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Ok mr. I am town, you claimed Priest, ok, why does this make you town, you could have taken reflect easily. (ps, blame recent games if you think I am playing like a douchebag) But tell me here, what do you see in everyone and I mean full readlist.
I suppose if i was lynched it'd be good to have anyways


So JD according to your genius level logic Ruy can't be scum cuz his scum team just would NOT allow him to post while he's schwasted right?
Gorf will you please shut the **** up about that half joke half fish I made to Scary. It wasn't ****ing serious, but if it had worked I would have laughed till I cried. I'm tired of your ****. You come in here and this is what you give us all. You want to lynch me, we know. But at least have the decency not to be a complete hypocrite while you ride my ass for not being useful enough.
 

Jdietz43

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Prancing around like you own the place just because people won't lynch a potential PR D1. **** you dude.
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
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Messages
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Hey Ruy I think you and scary are the scum team because as active alcoholics you guys are clearly the scum of the world.

OR SO SAYS THE SOBER BOY! AHAAAAAAA LET'S ALL LAUGH AT THE SOBER WHILE WE LYNCH HIM AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh and ***** if you're talking about me as the potential PR people won't lynch that's FAR from the reason I'm not gonna be lynched lol if you're gonna come at me come at me strong.
 

Jdietz43

BRoomer
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If this is seriously what you're going to do here Gorf. Fine, have your fun. I'll be playing mafia.

I'm just going to treat this like that time you randomly barged into an ongoing game to tell me to "shut up" before snapping at random people.
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
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Messages
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Jacksonville, FL
If this is seriously what you're going to do here Gorf. Fine, have your fun. I'll be playing mafia.

I'm just going to treat this like that time you randomly barged into an ongoing game to tell me to "shut up" before snapping at random people.
Wait you're playing mafia?
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
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Messages
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Jacksonville, FL
Laughs at 5 in the morning. Oh and I guess I can also gain the whole attacking playstyle but not attacking play to fake content thing but I can't seem to understand whether or not your first post is making an implication that I'm scum or something.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
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Colorado
Going to sleep after a good Vday but wanted to a quick hit after reading the newest 5 pages.

The thing that is bugging me about Alex's posts is that he is using an offense which I cannot defend from, point being this:

He is using someone else's meta to justify a scum-read on me based on play that happened in a game I know quite literally nothing about. I keep seeing "J looks like SoupScum from LM" but J =/= Soup. I mean I guess I could understand the reasoning if it was actually my own meta or even a game I was a part of but it isn't so I can't.

Even when lookin at the comparison of me and Soup it's not even close to describing my own actions in this game. I've started pressure where I see best fit.

I will concede to sidelining the Ditzy vs Town PR at the beginning but if that's a problem then that's your own problem and not mine because I am fine with what I did and it helped me garner a TvT read during the debate (which is also funny considering Alex, at the time, came up with a similar read)

Alex's push on me, feels like he is talking in circles about me and just keeps referencing Soup and "bad vibes" that haven't been explained and are actually rather vague.

Tbh to call Alex out on that is not fair considering everyone pretty much has a "null" or "bad gut-vibe" about me, but I am mainly just chalking that up to 1.) my rust is showing and 2.) my town and scum meta are very close. I just, can't defend against things that haven't been explained yet or problems that directly revolve around my slot.

Well now that that's done I guess I'll move onto the Nabe thing since it is the most current. As I said in my post to Dabuz and MC(I think?), Nabe is a null read so I am not going to cry over his lynch and based off it I(personally) will be able to read patterns based on votes and those commenting on it.

I honestly am finding it hard that people find Ditzy scummy and not just Ditzy. This isn't his scum-play at all and is really just Ditzy being Ditzy. Plus his motives scream town intent and not really in a way that makes me believe he is faking it.

I guess I'll go into it a bit more: When I brought up Ditzy's post and said that he was a clear town read is because I know exactly what he is doing. To me his play is transparent and I am seeing what he is thinking and WHY. (<--- big point there) Ditzy is actively looking for scum and trying to find things based off his own hair-brained ideas of what is going on. The Nabe pick up on his role makes me think he is definitely trying to read others and get a feel as to whether they can be town or scum. I also would like to say that I know where he is coming from with playing around with ideas about people and what their role may be based off post sand what he had brought up was completely plausible and feasible as a theory. I like the fact he tried to bring it to light even though if it was a tad misguided. That's just something I also keep coming back to is his play is reading as "misguided" rather than scummy and even though people keep trying to throw things at him to stick, nothing yet has been shown to me as concrete and describing Ditzy as scummy. I mean *flips table* I just don't know what to say to convince people at this point (moreso my tiredness) I just do not believe Ditzy is scum as opposed to Scary who can't even explain his own reads without falling in a contradiction and falling flat when he tries to even get somewhere.

BUT THE KICKER IS:

I am very annoyed at the fact that I am constantly havin to reevaluate his posts because he even said they were DRUNK MUSINGS. That's what annoys me at Scary is that I could be wrong all due to the sobriety of the person I am trying to read and who I am seeing as scummy. The contradictions could be drunk confusions, the randomness could be drunk blahblahblah, or even his explanations because I can't even tell anymore which bugs the hell out of me. This feeling even becomes more prominent after one my earlier strong town reads (DSH) posts a terrible reads posts baed on outdated info and drunk musings and puts into perspective that scary could may in fact be the exact same. So yeah that annoys me greatly especially when I feel I finally I have a scum read on a slot.

There are too many players alive too. I need dead people to just turn up so I can(personally) do more and reread D1 with flips in mind that would honestly help. I hate D1 with a passion.

Updates on things: I like HBW especially the more they post. I want more from Sang whenever she gets the chance but from what I have from Marshy, I like them more than dislike. On MC, still a **** if I know read. I need to see what their work accomplishes before I have a substantial read on them. Connections, for me, will tell more for that slot rather than their actions because it has OS in the slot and that's how I am able to tell his motives.

Anyways I'm tired and I think that's enough for now especially considering this is a post on my phone so I have no idea how long it is or anything but I am gone all day tomorrow and wanted to get something down and some thoughts out there.
 

Jdietz43

BRoomer
BRoomer
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Apr 3, 2008
Messages
2,625
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Milwaukee
Alright so here's the rundown on what I think of the playerlist

1. HBW

Man **** Marshy. No but seriously this slot is one I want to like but am having trouble doing it with. I can't read Marshy's side just wanting me dead very well, but he has a few reasonable motivations to want that to happen. Not ones I'd agree with knowing what I was all thinking (or in some cases not thinking) etc., but from the outside in they aren't awful reasons to be wanting me gone D1 (talking about roles too much, hates what I tried to confirm with Nabe, pretty sure wasn't a fan of pushing back on Town PR etc.)

That said, with the advent of Sang the slot has gotten a little more dynamic. I don't know why they were giving Scary the noobtown pass and not me, but then I can't really peg why J is doing the reverse either. I don't mind the switch to Nabe for obvious reasons even if it felt kind of sudden. Overall I'm hoping Sang gets even more caught up, because most of the things he asked me when we interacted were things that already had answers or were misunderstood entirely, but the basis of which seemed firm enough. Slight town lean, would be easy to swing back.

2. Raziek

Lol null


3. Massive Carnage

For all the effort that the slot has put forth I want to call this slot town. Obviously this slot is going to put in effort as either alignment though so that's not really fair. Instead what I'm hoping I'm right about is the intent to dig through everyone being more town than scum. I can't think of a slot they haven't at least tried to talk to. Only thing I really have to hesitate on here is how they've seemed equally committed to every lynch they've been on despite having some stances, like they'd be more than happy for any of them, as well as dubbing Me vs Town PR TvT but leaving Me vs. Scary up in the air long enough to have jumped on me for a minute (which I don't understand the intent of since they immediately pushed for Nabe); but realistically it's for reads and soldier johns are legit. Speculative town lean (for now).

4. WashedLaundry

... Ok this list needs to stop giving me all the slots I'm torn on right away. I liked what he was posting early game (but I usually do), and his J read at least seemed kind of based on things but at the same time I don't really agree with it and it was pretty meta-reachy fmpov. I gotta be honest I've largely been just letting everything Washed does slide and focusing on other slots. I don't remember if he stated Nabe dislike before yesterday, but I can only assume he has at least a reasonable amount of it if he switched wagons, and there was that whole tirade he made that I misinterpreted as being at me so idk. Null.

5. Detective Sherlock Hound (Joey/Red Ruy)

Your slot is... ok, but it feels like one of the reads I've developed the least. I'm relying a lot on gut and reaction to both my actions and the Town PR wagon here and the willingness of Joey to admit mistaken points instead of pushing them. You've been pretty inactive for the last irl day or two tbh, but before that everything seemed okay; and while I'd love to say you'd know how to recognize me being me back during Me vs. Town PR that's really no guarantee of anything when Joey is involved. Null leaning town.

6. J

Okay this one is tricky as hell. I want to love this guy for supporting me and agreeing on Me vs Town PR TvT and going in on Scary, but being realistic: he hasn't really followed through all that hard. You could argue that everything he's done is getting him brownie points on my flip from a scum perspective, and he was noncommittal at various points of the game (the initial part of Me vs Town PR). But being realistic here I don't see a scum doing this exact sequence of events wrt my slot. I mean: he came in and said I was definitely town and he'd block my lynch against Marshy, and pointed out all this stuff on Scary: and then today he came in and just said literally "**** it I'm tired". Maybe I'm not giving it enough thought, but that seems like the biggest waste of time if he was doing this as scum since it would paint a "what the hell was that even" target on his back for making a big fuss and not showing up. Town, but if he keeps up being distant from all but select issues I'd start to reconsider.


7. Gorf

Okay so Gorf kind of gets a special read. The elephant in the room here is that I don't think anyone really wants to even deal with the wifom of having a unique role to put him as a legitimate candidate. But all that aside, EVEN though he pisses me off, he's been doing some work when he could reasonably chill and no one would complain too hard. The sheer amount of effort he has put into non-constructive mudslinging kind of worries me though. Very slight town lean

8. Dabuz

Okay Dabuz is mixed in that he's not the greatest ever at pursuing things, but then again neither am I. There's been some detraction as of late on that point, but I feel like it's largely something that's okay. I was a little worried with how he was sliding his doublevote around, but there are legit reasons to be doing that in this game and it's seemed to help out a number of reads so far. It's hard to describe this because I don't want to take forever with this summary by getting a bunch of quotes involved when I haven't bothered to use any before now; but what he does he seems intent on. Some of his points are just lame though... like saying he got Vult to say he had 8 years experience when it really had nothing to do with him and wouldn't have even been a question if he hadn't asked. Gut town lean? It's kind of a toss up, but I'd err on town for now.

9. LBScary59

Scary I feel like we could definitely lose. He's been a non-factor for the vast majority of the game, and while I'd love to give him "you ****ed up like I did" credit I don't feel like the intent is really there. He coasted in during early game, muddled about in the middle, and at the end he was pretty much unraveled when he started talking in such a way where it was clear he was thinking of his posts from a standpoint where he was making allusions to the concept of having reads to placate people rather than further scum hunting (see; the J post we all voted him for). Wrap this up with the time he just flat stated he saved his vote for a bad time (voting me literally because he thought I was wrong about a mechanic) because he felt afraid people would come down on him and there's not a lot of recourse. Scum

10. Town PR (Glyph/Ranmaru)

I kind of ****ed up my early chances of reading them on this one trying to get them to post content in a really awkward way, but eventually I think the effort showed through in what they had been trying for despite the misunderstandings. Everything they've been doing since then (though absent for awhile about a day ago) has been reasonable. Their push on Scary seems legit and I don't really fault them for early game: so Town PR is fittingly a Town read.

12. Gheb_01

Okay I won't lie that really early gambit obliterated pretty much any chance of normal read on Gheb, but honestly I don't think my read on him would have been very strong regardless. He's been mostly obstinate, which isn't unexpected, but I don't really know what he's pushing for at any given moment, and that makes me not want to trust him. He comments from time to time, and sometimes I can see where he's coming from, but often that comment will be almost too curt. The moment that comes to mind is when he said he thought the Scary wagon was a ****ty one. I could see where he'd might come to that remark from based on the likes of Me/Nabe/Dabuz being all on it already, but without really arguing for any one side anyways. I'm 100% sure he's currently voting someone but the fact I don't know who it is off the top of my head means he isn't doing it as well as possible. Null leaning scum

13. Nabe

What can we even say about Nabe really. We know he's here, he responds to things put forth when they irritate him, but he hasn't done a whole ton else. He apparently just does this, and I saw him do this as town in Tranq (though he was a replacement), but he apparently also does this as scum and it'd suit the play just fine. Ultimately it comes to the fact that we really could be getting things from him and he's choosing not to while still making wagons happen with a doublevote. I'm not in a position to bargain and PoE means I really have no qualms with him being the play today if he's going to make his alignment a coin flip. Some people say if he's town he'll improve if given time, but I really don't agree from what I've seen in the past. Scum lean

14. Vult Redux

Vult I feel wary of. He hasn't done anything evil, but he also hasn't done anything super constructively town. He's done things no one else is doing like put votes on what was at the time Nameless and then Carnage, but what else really is there? He's down to body Nabe and I don't really have any legit reason to not be okay with that, but he's still kind of a question mark. Null, but if anyone is going to be the "yeah okay, I'm not surprised but I also sort of didn't see it coming" mafia flip it'd probably be this slot based on the game so far.





All that said, I feel like any of the power players could be reasonably working together here to guide whichever of these lynches they choose under malign pretenses and it's really going to come down to flips as it always does. If the nightmare scenario comes and all 3 of me, Nabe, and Scary flip town, well first off I apologize, and second I'd hope the likes of HBW, Laundry, and Gorf are all getting second looks about two flips in.
 

Jdietz43

BRoomer
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Apr 3, 2008
Messages
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Uh, I guess scratch what I said about J saying "screw it".



Thread used wall! It's super effective!
 

Jdietz43

BRoomer
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Laughs at 5 in the morning. Oh and I guess I can also gain the whole attacking playstyle but not attacking play to fake content thing but I can't seem to understand whether or not your first post is making an implication that I'm scum or something.
I was telling you to stop being a **** for no other reason than being a ****, and that was all.

I think it's kinda grimy now though. Are you saying you were doing the bolded or what?
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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Explain a bit then? I'd like to get something of a stance out of you sometime soon. Throwing a random vote at HBC means little to me.
OK, let's look at that votespread again:

10. Town PR (4) Jdietz, Dabuz, Dabuz, MC
11. Jdietz43 (4) TPR, DSH, Nameless, Nameless

Do you think that everybody involved in this voting scenario is town, Laundry? I don't. The town to scum ratio in mafia games is lower than six to one. It's usually between three to one and four to one. The mere statistics suggest that at least one scumbag is voting either for Town PR or Jdietz here. Then you have to account for the fact that we have two doublevoteres. I don't think it's too far fetched to assume that mafia would love to gain control over the doublevoters, either through forming voting blocks with them or by picking a class that gives them two votes. That also strongly suggests that scum is involved here. Finally, I have to question the occurence of such a scenario being merely coincidence, rather than planned. With all that in mind I think it's a very good thing of you to have taken note of. There are enough facts that suggest that this scenario isn't just "odd" but scum infected. I find a good examination of it more conclusive than wagoning Nabe, Dietz or Scary over whatever dumb reasons have been suggested so far or indeed your seemingly aimless moving around of your vote.

If you agree with me so far, that's good. So let's look at the individual players then. In this scenario I want to exclude Dietz and TPR from my assumptions despite them voting each other because they are not offenders pulling off a play - they're victims *being* played. That doesn't exclude the possibility that either of them could be scum but if they are, I couldn't tell by that votespread. That leavses dabuz, Carnage, DSH and marshy's slot as inherently suspicious in my eyes. I still don't see where the pro-town reads on dabuz -including yours- are coming from. Carnage has posted a lot but said little and he has done nothing of consequence. He's been going after rather "easy" targets and has taken plenty of opportunity to nudge you and me - the two players who are most likely to see through the bull**** he oozes quite frequently. DSH is another one of them null-slots that people tend to lump into the town drawer because of low expectations. That's not only bad play but also quite unjustified in this game. The slot should by no means be read as town at this point and anybody who does so has some serious explaining to do. Though I'm voting HBW right now, I think these three slots would all make solid lynches toDay.
That leaves marshy's slot which I think is the main offender here. The way he jumped on the Dietz wagon was essentially pure sheeping and his ******** about whiteknighting is not only misplaced [only J who hasn't done **** all game has come even close to "whiteknight" dietz] but also sounds more like him trying to suffocate any attempt of people questioning his vote right away. Because y'know if you even *think* about questioning marshy's motives you're already whiteknighting dietz and whiteknighting *is just bad*, right? That's apparently the whole basis upon which he argues and that he somehow gets away with. People read him wrong because their horizon is limited to pure meta-reads and marshy is always speaking in the same manner. But he's not saying the same *things* and he's not playing the same way this time around - people just don't notice it. I thought you'd be one of the people to notice that.

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