Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia - Game Over!

[Maximum Carnage]

mc murals pls drew finish your game and talk to me we got scum to catch

Literally just waiting on you. Finish reading. I ask you three or four things.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

You asked us this when we had results. Nabe was irate, but interacting. Why, when given that situation, would you then come in and basically give him the okay to sit there and be obnoxious.

Because, and as your other head put it best, despite him doing things now, it wasn't your constant nagging that did it. Nabe will do things when he sees fit, regardless of what the rest of the game thinks. I don't know where his head is and even if I asked him, I don't think I'd get a straight answer (he never did explain why DSH was scummy to him despite me asking him at some point from what I remember). I am confident that he won't be like this the whole game and if he is, I'd be down to lynch him--just not yet. If he's scum, he'll make a move and chances are probably get caught for it. I can see your point on scum not having much of an active presence in this game as a reason for lynching Nabe and I definitely don't like his presence on the Scary wagon either.

Two, talk to me about the two wagons and J's take on them. I will make it no secret that I find it gross. What do you think?

just answered

I'm here now, so you better show.

sorry :<

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

like, just to continue about nabe a bit, in tranq, he did nothing from when he replaced in onwards and remained in the lynch pool despite being town. i don't think he ever got enough steam to push anywhere and that's why he remained like that. in comparison to lm, he had a distinct plan that he wanted to follow and got left around long enough to do it despite having this vague pr schtick that he never got nked for. see what i mean?

 

[Hardbody Warrior]

Really, I don't like the scary wagon at all. I don't like J and I still can't shake vibes of the same exact **** that Soup pulled here, down to the Scary push. Remember how during D2 of that game, we had the Frito vs FroMar wagon for the entire day and Soup opted to sit his *** on Soup instead of dealing with it? It reminds me of that. Not necessarily because this is Soup, but because it was effectively subtle enough that he could get away with keeping his hands clean. I don't like the Scary wagon as a result because of that.

Wait, what?

J STARTED the Scary wagon. While I dislike it, I can at least see where he's coming from and am lost in this comparison. Luigi's Mansion soup had him not doing **** during a TVT argument. This game J is directly throwing himself into an argument with Scary and chasing after (though dabunz/JD did a lot of the legwork, the initial push is there) the fact. Am I missing something here?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

@ #HBC | Laundry Actually, can you answer the second question in the above post?

J, talk to me about Nabe.

Answered this as well. Tell me why I'm wrong since you seem so sure about it.

 

[Town PR]

because I do not pursue a vote the same way that you would.

Explain how you pursue a vote as opposed to me, and how it compares to how you voted JD.

I was waiting for J and I felt like I should ask dabuz as well. What was so wrong with waiting and asking others?

Why did you ask J and Dabuz those questions? What did you gain from Dabuz's answer and how did it affect your read on JD?

Where am I lying about how I felt about JD's play?

You never mentioned anything about JD's vote being opportunistic. You addressed gorf but you never agreed with what he was saying either. I have no reason (or proof) to believe what you are saying here.

Expand on the 'assumption' reasoning.

 

[Hardbody Warrior]

@ Hardbody Warrior
@marshy

Wait, is it the role speculation? That ******* post? Both these wagons are dumbbbbbbbbbbbbb. You have Nabe as null (according to the post where you mentioned the voters on the Scary wagon being questionable as ****). Why do you have him as null when there has been a slot on his **** for half the phase? Is that not a problem?

He's just playing like scum. I'm not getting into the dumb over scum stuff. Scum make dumb posts, so do Town. I've seen JD scum plenty of times and he posts dumb stuff. The possibility of him making dumb posts as town is always there, but it's not a saving factor in my read.

I remember in Luigi's Mansion I kept saying, "I'm going to wait to read Nabe" when you wanted to go him early. While it worked out in the end, I'm getting the same feeling of wanting to just say "**** it, let's lynch him" if not for JD's existence. Can you rephrase these last two parts of this post I quoted? I feel like it's important but am confused as to what you're trying to say here.

 

[Jdietz43]

Dabunz and Nabe just hopped on freely and Gorf/Marshy's push on JDietz for his reasons for voting is pretty accurate--those two posts in tandem just don't look good together.

I am down for the JD wagon as a result, simply because of this.

Which two posts.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

kay i have a nifty burn on my hand all of a sudden so i'll handle this now
I was waiting for DSH to post, prompted Ryu to post while he was in-thread etc. no response
I don't have any sort of scumread on DSH, I just wanted to give them something pointy to respond to
my apologies dabuz for making you wait slightly, i'm incorrigible

wot

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Which two posts.

the ones frololesswarrior quoted that gorf quoted

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Wait, what?

J STARTED the Scary wagon. While I dislike it, I can at least see where he's coming from and am lost in this comparison. Luigi's Mansion soup had him not doing **** during a TVT argument. This game J is directly throwing himself into an argument with Scary and chasing after (though dabunz/JD did a lot of the legwork, the initial push is there) the fact. Am I missing something here?

You're missing how distanced he was from the previous TvT argument between JD and Town PR to throw something onto scary who randomly jumped up while drunk. How is that not like Soup distracting from the Frito/FroMar wagons to continue to throw **** at Rake?

 

[Hardbody Warrior]

@ Hardbody Warrior I'll ask again. What are your reads (I'll look back for yours sang but yea) on carnage?

Scratch that slight scum lean. He's creeping up towards a sliiiiiight townlean due to the way Ryker's lookin' like he's digging his heels in. I like the way he's recently got at me and Laundry regarding a scumread of his that he feels is being ignored in Nabe and it's making me wonder if I'm being too lenient with the slot. Going back and forth on this but I still REALLY want JD first and doubt I'll change my mind.

What do you think of Nabe?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I'm done.

Hi Drew, talk to me. I wanna work with ya but I'm not sold on Nabe.

 

[Jdietz43]

You mean the one where they rib me for talking about Nabe's class?


If so, why did you say you liked it last page

just grabbing this, this may be a nice catch

Otherwise if you mean the one where I ask if "his mates would be ok with him drunk" and the one where I vote him then you'll definitely have to enlighten me. What part of fishing for the long shot ribbing is bad, and why is that vote misplaced considering what J put forth and the fact I need to be on wagons early.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Sure I can go into this with you. Well, not sure, really. But you can do me a favor and tell me why you're wrong.

Take a step back for me real quick. I want you, not to look at Nabe's posts, but to look at your own. You are saying that you don't want to lynch someone who is working directly to obscure our ability to read him. Let's go back to AiB and let's say Marshy showed up and pulled the **** he pulls. What would we do? Lynch him with extreme prejudice. If you were to take Nabe's play and put it anywhere but on SWF, it would warrant a lynch BECAUSE IT IS BLATANTLY ANTI-TOWN. Even Marshy I can tolerate, to a degree, because he goes out of his way to leave a paper trail a mile long.

Now, let's jump back to the progressive DGames and its tolerance for all play styles. Can you point me to a game where Nabe has received the quick lynching he deserved for this ****? I can't think of one. Now, can you think of a game where Nabe was scum and took the fact that he is a permanent late game fixture to the bank? How about (cough Skies cough) a game where town Nabe's nebulous play was used against town by another scum? Given his nasty ass vote, I am MORE than okay with lynching him now.

What do you think of his interaction with JDitz where JDitz talks about claiming?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

And I would like for you to tell me why it shouldn't be J? A lot of my dislike is rooted in the subtleties of his play rather than the actual surface of it.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

@ Town PR

Talk to me about Nabe. God knows I've brought it up with about everyone else.

 

[Hardbody Warrior]

You're missing how distanced he was from the previous TvT argument between JD and Town PR to throw something onto scary who randomly jumped up while drunk. How is that not like Soup distracting from the Frito/FroMar wagons to continue to throw **** at Rake?

Eh, I still they're incomparable. Scary was just kind of coasting along and no one seemed to think much of him until he posted a reads list that we think was just poorly substantiated and now he's running in circles trying to explain himself. J's push against Scary was new and fresh, while soup flinging **** at Rake was more than tired at that point if I'm remembering correctly.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

And I would like for you to tell me why it shouldn't be J? A lot of my dislike is rooted in the subtleties of his play rather than the actual surface of it.

J has the potential to be wrong. I dislike J as well. What Nabe is doing has no potential for being a townie being wrong: it is either a townie playing against town's best interest intentionally or scum playing like scum.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

I mirror my other head here, but I literally cannot fathom how all of these people have Nabe as null or worse, but no one is interested in lynching him. It blows my mind that he is not at L-1 right now.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

He's just playing like scum. I'm not getting into the dumb over scum stuff. Scum make dumb posts, so do Town. I've seen JD scum plenty of times and he posts dumb stuff. The possibility of him making dumb posts as town is always there, but it's not a saving factor in my read.

I remember in Luigi's Mansion I kept saying, "I'm going to wait to read Nabe" when you wanted to go him early. While it worked out in the end, I'm getting the same feeling of wanting to just say "**** it, let's lynch him" if not for JD's existence. Can you rephrase these last two parts of this post I quoted? I feel like it's important but am confused as to what you're trying to say here.

Rephrase:

I have been bothering Nabe this entire phase. I have been looking to get him to do things that make him readable. Yet, despite this, you have him at null. Is the fact that he is STILL null not a problem in and of itself?

I was implying that he is actively trying to prevent people from reading him.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I mirror my other head here, but I literally cannot fathom how all of these people have Nabe as null or worse, but no one is interested in lynching him. It blows my mind that he is not at L-1 right now.

In case you didn't get it @ #HBC | Laundry I wanted your explanation for this.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

In case you didn't get it @ #HBC | Laundry I wanted your explanation for this.

I was doing so well.

Poo.

 

[Town PR]

I haven't been focusing on Nabe. I don't see why we need Nabe to be lynched D1. I'm null on him, and would hope to wait to read him. I tried lynching Nabe in HardBody mafia (D1), and that just got him to semi-claim his pr and got him nk'd. Don't see the rush, and don't see why you bring up the Dgames 'won't ever lynch nabe for being a super question mark on purpose' thing. Tell me why it has to be toDay.

 

[Hardbody Warrior]

And I would like for you to tell me why it shouldn't be J? A lot of my dislike is rooted in the subtleties of his play rather than the actual surface of it.

:thumbsdown:

You are in a universe that I don't even think the Green Lantern Corps has access to if you're seriously suggesting that J is the play today with all the scum running around as of late.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Sure I can go into this with you. Well, not sure, really. But you can do me a favor and tell me why you're wrong.

Take a step back for me real quick. I want you, not to look at Nabe's posts, but to look at your own. You are saying that you don't want to lynch someone who is working directly to obscure our ability to read him. Let's go back to AiB and let's say Marshy showed up and pulled the **** he pulls. What would we do? Lynch him with extreme prejudice. If you were to take Nabe's play and put it anywhere but on SWF, it would warrant a lynch BECAUSE IT IS BLATANTLY ANTI-TOWN. Even Marshy I can tolerate, to a degree, because he goes out of his way to leave a paper trail a mile long.

Now, let's jump back to the progressive DGames and its tolerance for all play styles. Can you point me to a game where Nabe has received the quick lynching he deserved for this ****? I can't think of one. Now, can you think of a game where Nabe was scum and took the fact that he is a permanent late game fixture to the bank? How about (cough Skies cough) a game where town Nabe's nebulous play was used against town by another scum? Given his nasty *** vote, I am MORE than okay with lynching him now.

I've gone back and forth with this in my head for awhile now because I'm massively conflicted on what to do on this. On the one hand, this mechanical approach to how Nabe should play the game means ****ing little to me because I've seen people (usually scum!) just throw this type of argument as a reason to dislike/lynch marshy in the past and I'd assume slots like Hando probably ate it too. I can't buy into that type of logic because to me it's not based on a read. That said, I can't say for a second that I like how Nabe is playing this game. I don't like his vote on Scary at all either and I'm not happy with his slot. I just don't see enough to say that he's scummy enough to make me wanna lynch him, at least not over J.

Can you understand where I'm coming from?

What do you think of his interaction with JDitz where JDitz talks about claiming?

you mean where he does what jdietz asks him without any significant question?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Rephrase:

I have been bothering Nabe this entire phase. I have been looking to get him to do things that make him readable. Yet, despite this, you have him at null. Is the fact that he is STILL null not a problem in and of itself?

I was implying that he is actively trying to prevent people from reading him.

No, because I think he takes time to become something other than a null regardless of an alignment. You're not gonna get him to budge on your own. He doesn't flinch, he just gets snippy. He got snippy with me in Tranq too for trying to bug him.

The only slot that bothers me for being null still is Gheb. I expect Nabe to take his time to do something, I don't expect Gheb to sit this far in the background.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

@ Town PR
In this game I was trying something else, and wanted to stay away from any sort of OMGUS. This will explain why it took me a while to vote JD and also why I did not address his vote when I voted him. I assumed it would me into another OMGUS situation. I wanted to try and get the vote myself. When gorf and HBW both pointed out the opportunistic play that led JD onto my wagon, I kept it mind and remained wary of why he got pushed before with his talk of the game mechanics. When I felt I had found him wrong on a mechanic, I decided it was time to at least place a vote down. Turns out I was wrong with the mechanic but I decided to stick with it based on his play up to this point.

I figured I'd at least ask those two even though they were pushing me so I can gain their views about everything. I gained from dabuz that I should look at his talks about the game mechanics, I think he was talking illusionist at the time. I wanted to at least have them tell me how they felt about JD to try and understand their side a little better.

The assumption part was explained when I thought I caught JD being wrong on a game mechanic when Nabe stated I was at L-3, but if we looked at it with JD's POV I should've been at L-2 due to Nabe being a doublevoter. I recounted my votes, saw I was at L-3 and called him on it with my vote. Again, turns out I was hella wrong when the actual vote count finally came up and showed Nabe's doublevote.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

I haven't been focusing on Nabe. I don't see why we need Nabe to be lynched D1. I'm null on him, and would hope to wait to read him. I tried lynching Nabe in HardBody mafia (D1), and that just got him to semi-claim his pr and got him nk'd. Don't see the rush, and don't see why you bring up the Dgames 'won't ever lynch nabe for being a super question mark on purpose' thing. Tell me why it has to be toDay.

I didn't bring that up, Laundry brought that up. It's his stated reason for not voting him. Nabe's meta.

Because both of these wagons are stupid. Nabe is scummy as balls because he is intentionally trying to remain null. I do not see a better lynch for today.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

In case you didn't get it @ #HBC | Laundry I wanted your explanation for this.

In short, I don't see enough to lynch him myself and what you're telling me isn't convincing enough for me.

 

[Jdietz43]

@Washed Laundry: 893 plez

 

[Maximum Carnage]

No, because I think he takes time to become something other than a null regardless of an alignment. You're not gonna get him to budge on your own. He doesn't flinch, he just gets snippy. He got snippy with me in Tranq too for trying to bug him.

The only slot that bothers me for being null still is Gheb. I expect Nabe to take his time to do something, I don't expect Gheb to sit this far in the background.

WHY!? Raz is a slot I expect that from. That's because @Raziek is a lazy asshole. I have enough faith in his intelligence to know that Nabe is more than capable of contributing to a level found generally acceptable. I do not understand why in the world you would want to give that slot a pass. You have absolutely no guarantee that he will do something later. What you are asking is to give him a free pass to a situation he can manipulate with little to no paper trail to reign him in prior to that.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

In short, I don't see enough to lynch him myself and what you're telling me isn't convincing enough for me.

I didn't ask for it in short. In fact, I think it was a very obvious request for it to be put "in long." I DO NOT GET IT. My partner doesn't get it. We concluded that the reason we don't get it is because it makes no sense. Explain it to me.

 

[Jdietz43]

@ Town PR
In this game I was trying something else, and wanted to stay away from any sort of OMGUS. This will explain why it took me a while to vote JD and also why I did not address his vote when I voted him. I assumed it would me into another OMGUS situation. I wanted to try and get the vote myself. When gorf and HBW both pointed out the opportunistic play that led JD onto my wagon, I kept it mind and remained wary of why he got pushed before with his talk of the game mechanics. When I felt I had found him wrong on a mechanic, I decided it was time to at least place a vote down. Turns out I was wrong with the mechanic but I decided to stick with it based on his play up to this point.

I figured I'd at least ask those two even though they were pushing me so I can gain their views about everything. I gained from dabuz that I should look at his talks about the game mechanics, I think he was talking illusionist at the time. I wanted to at least have them tell me how they felt about JD to try and understand their side a little better.

The assumption part was explained when I thought I caught JD being wrong on a game mechanic when Nabe stated I was at L-3, but if we looked at it with JD's POV I should've been at L-2 due to Nabe being a doublevoter. I recounted my votes, saw I was at L-3 and called him on it with my vote. Again, turns out I was hella wrong when the actual vote count finally came up and showed Nabe's doublevote.

Why would me being wrong about a game mechanic make me more scummy than I was before.

What do you mean by the underlined? Are you saying you were afraid if you voted earlier that Gorf and HBW would come for you?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

WHY!? Raz is a slot I expect that from. That's because @Raziek is a lazy *******. I have enough faith in his intelligence to know that Nabe is more than capable of contributing to a level found generally acceptable. I do not understand why in the world you would want to give that slot a pass. You have absolutely no guarantee that he will do something later. What you are asking is to give him a free pass to a situation he can manipulate with little to no paper trail to reign him in prior to that.

Because I'm putting my confidence in the fact that he will do something later. If he's scum, he has to act at some point. He didn't get away with being the null PR in LM forever, he eventually did something and it allowed me to read him.

That said, I just realized I'm being MEGA dumb and that he has made some actions here. Let me look at them again.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

@ #HBC | Laundry

Is the way Nabe is playing blatantly anti-town, disregarding the fact that you are supporting his meta?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I didn't ask for it in short. In fact, I think it was a very obvious request for it to be put "in long." I DO NOT GET IT. My partner doesn't get it. We concluded that the reason we don't get it is because it makes no sense. Explain it to me.

I've gone back and forth with this in my head for awhile now because I'm massively conflicted on what to do on this. On the one hand, this mechanical approach to how Nabe should play the game means ****ing little to me because I've seen people (usually scum!) just throw this type of argument as a reason to dislike/lynch marshy in the past and I'd assume slots like Hando probably ate it too. I can't buy into that type of logic because to me it's not based on a read. That said, I can't say for a second that I like how Nabe is playing this game. I don't like his vote on Scary at all either and I'm not happy with his slot. I just don't see enough to say that he's scummy enough to make me wanna lynch him, at least not over J.

Can you understand where I'm coming from?quote]

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

@ #HBC | Laundry

Is the way Nabe is playing blatantly anti-town, disregarding the fact that you are supporting his meta?

see: above

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Ninja'd.

@Nabe

For the record, I have been sitting here waiting to see if you would EVER pursue anything with the fact that you appealed to me over and over. Well, other than using it as a deflection not to really interact with this slot.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

@ #HBC | Laundry

Realistically, you have zero chance on lynching J. None whatsoever. You won't get me while Nabe lives and breathes and you just got shutdown by Marshy. If you still think you can get him, go for it, but I don't think you have the guns. Will you lynch Nabe with me today if J cannot be done?