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Final Destination: Workshop General social thread

Sukai

Smash Champion
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turn around....
I'd like to see a list of Sega first party games cause I'd bet it's collective scoring would be somewhere in the 60s. Nintendo's would be somewhere in the high 80s.
Ahem.

Sega had great consoles and great games, but all that **** Nintendo hype pushed them to make some really bad marketting decisions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega
The main reason wiki is trustworthy is because the true content is cited for references to official statements, instead of being pure speculation/false information.

Once again, Sega had great stuff going for them, but everyone was sucking Nintendo's **** like mad, they never got the chance.
But if you wanna persist...

For the record.

Sonic Fans =/= Sonic Fanboys
I really hate it when people indefinitely label all Sonic fans fanboys. It's the videogame equivalent of spiteful stereotyping, at it's lowest.

Ark has a point, but the Sonic Fanbase's Pile of poop, vomit, and trash really is much bigger than many other Fanbase's pile of poop, vomit, and trash.
Narutards, nuff said.

Besides, what's wrong with Fanfiction? Most people who write them, for Sonic at least are young, why be *******s and expects flawless works of art of a shakespear caliber?
Fanfiction goes beyond literature, which is a good thing with all these lazy kids these days, there are comics, flash movies, music, the works.
The literature is barely passable, because people don't like to read these days, but seriously? All fanfiction, you're including all the good stuff.

I'm gonna hve to drop some knowledge on these stereotyping jerk-offs.
 

Mattnumbers

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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Kirkland, Washington
Ahem.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega
The main reason wiki is trustworthy is because the true content is cited for references to official statements, instead of being pure speculation/false information.

Once again, Sega had great stuff going for them, but everyone was sucking Nintendo's **** like mad, they never got the chance.
But if you wanna persist...

For the record.

Sonic Fans =/= Sonic Fanboys
I really hate it when people indefinitely label all Sonic fans fanboys. It's the videogame equivalent of spiteful stereotyping, at it's lowest.



Narutards, nuff said.

Besides, what's wrong with Fanfiction? Most people who write them, for Sonic at least are young, why be *******s and expects flawless works of art of a shakespear caliber?
Fanfiction goes beyond literature, which is a good thing with all these lazy kids these days, there are comics, flash movies, music, the works.
The literature is barely passable, because people don't like to read these days, but seriously? All fanfiction, you're including all the good stuff.

I'm gonna hve to drop some knowledge on these stereotyping jerk-offs.
For one, I have no idea what your getting at with those wikipedia articles, they have nothing to do with whether Sony is a good company that consistently produces good games. Wikipedia is written in a non-biased way on purpose. A list of franchises a mile long just means they probably have an even lower average score on their games than expected.

For the second part, I said the FANBASE, which includes all the fanboys. I'm not stereotyping anyways, I said SOME of them. And I fail how people who stereotype Sonic Fans are any worse than people who stereotype other things.

And good fanfic? I have no idea what your even talking about.
 

Sukai

Smash Champion
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turn around....
For one, I have no idea what your getting at with those wikipedia articles, they have nothing to do with whether Sony is a good company that consistently produces good games. Wikipedia is written in a non-biased way on purpose. A list of franchises a mile long just means they probably have an even lower average score on their games than expected.

For the second part, I said the FANBASE, which includes all the fanboys. I'm not stereotyping anyways, I said SOME of them. And I fail how people who stereotype Sonic Fans are any worse than people who stereotype other things.

And good fanfic? I have no idea what your even talking about.
For one, those wiki articles were namely for GoG, and had nothing to do with Sony.

For the second part, if you hate the entire fanbase, than you hate me too, and Neko, and apparently we are fanboys by the principle that we like Sonic, am I getting this right? People who stereotype in general are disgusting.

Yes, good fanfics.
 

Mattnumbers

Smash Master
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Messages
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Kirkland, Washington
Are you even reading my post? Find one place where I steriotyped, all I have said is that some sonic fanboys are particularly bad by fanboy standards. I think it's funny that you stereotype anyone who thinks that some sonic fans are annoying, oh the irony!

And yes, I did accidentally say Sony instead of Sega, they have similar names, get over it.

EDIT: By Fanfic I meant the written kind, but still that movie is awfully cheesy (I have other criticisms as well that I will keep to myself)
 

Sukai

Smash Champion
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Are you even reading my post? Find one place where I steriotyped, all I have said is that some sonic fanboys are particularly bad by fanboy standards. I think it's funny that you stereotype anyone who thinks that some sonic fans are annoying, oh the irony!

And yes, I did accidentally say Sony instead of Sega, they have similar names, get over it.
First, I wasn't speaking in any general sense, just at you, so I'm not stereotyping, derp.

Second, you say the FANBASE, which last time I checked included fans and fanboys, so when you say fanbase, I'm included, derp.
When you specifically categorize a general group of people and call all their hard work and inspired creation, trash--amongst other words you could use, you're stereotyping, because you haven't read/watched/listened to all the Sonic fanfiction in the world/internet, so you generally assume the ones you haven't viewed is the same.

News Flash, that's stereotyping.
GG, derp.
 

colored blind

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
398
Location
Purdue/West Lafayette
I liked Sonic before...2002? I think that's when Sonic Adventure 2 Battle came out. The last good Sonic game, imo. Jesus, Sega destroyed Sonic far more effectively than Robotnik could ever have.

I think we can pretty much agree that we all hate the brainless type of fanboy.
 

Mattnumbers

Smash Master
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First, I wasn't speaking in any general sense, just at you, so I'm not stereotyping, derp.

Second, you say the FANBASE, which last time I checked included fans and fanboys, so when you say fanbase, I'm included, derp.
When you specifically categorize a general group of people and call all their hard work and inspired creation, trash--amongst other words you could use, you're stereotyping, because you haven't read/watched/listened to all the Sonic fanfiction in the world/internet, so you generally assume the ones you haven't viewed is the same.

News Flash, that's stereotyping.
GG, derp.
Except I never even said the entire Fanbase was bad, again, I said SOME, why don't you get that? And no, I have seen you in multiple places say stuff like that so I know I'm not the only one who you think is like that. If I'm stereotyping anything it's fanfiction in general, since I've yet to EVER see a good fanfiction, yours included. If you really want to be a writer find your own characters instead of disgracing ones made by people with actual talent.

Although I'm sure there is ok fanfiction SOMEWHERE, I'm sure all those stupid books for things like Halo and WoW got published for some reason, but I doubt that any of them can measure up to original books. And by the way find where I said "all fanfiction is bad". I never said that! I think you must actually BE one of those fanboys since you're having such a bad reaction to this.

And by the way, nothing personal, I don't even care if you are a sonic fanboy or not, I'm just saying that people tend to get most defensive when they are accused of being something they are.
 

CountKaiser

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
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In space
Sega had great games, just that no one noticed them.

Gunstar Heroes
Dynamite Headdy
Streets of Rage
Sonic, lol
Power Stone
Soul Caliber
Jet Set Radio
NiGHTS
Ristar
Vectorman
Golden Axe
Crazy Taxi
Phantasy Star
Panzer Dragoon
Radiant Silvergun
Ikaruga
Ecco the Dolphin

These games/series are normally considered Sega's cream of the crop.

Now if someone dislikes Sonic games, that's their opinion. Earlier Sonic games were never about speed anyway. At least, not speed alone. Sure, Sonic could move faster than mario, but what really got me was how such speed could be used to find several different pathways and get to normally unreachable places, and being rewarded for it. Speed in earlier sonic games was not just a gimmick, it was an asset. Your best asset to getting around a level.

Unfortunately, recent Sonic games place emphasis on going fast instead of using speed to get to new areas. This is why most 3D sonic games are largely linear with few branching pathways. They are still fun to play, to an extent, but they don't have what made S3&K good(which I, personally, believe to be the best game of the franchise, but I've yet to play Sonic CD, which many consider the best Sonic game ever, so take that as you will).
 

Sukai

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turn around....
Except I never even said the entire Fanbase was bad, again, I said SOME, why don't you get that? And no, I have seen you in multiple places say stuff like that so I know I'm not the only one who you think is like that.
Yeah, I still don't stereotype, I point out specific people, not everyone, I know people who dislike Sonic, yet can discern a fan from a fan boy, note that I only step in when the fanboy arguments start flaring, if you watch me that closely, you'd know that.
I didn't say you said the entrie fanbase is bad, you said the entire fanbase has ****ty fanfiction.

If I'm stereotyping anything it's fanfiction in general, since I've yet to EVER see a good fanfiction, yours included. If you really want to be a writer find your own characters instead of disgracing ones made by people with actual talent.
So you admit that you're stereotyping, I generate my own characters for mangas and whatnot, and there are a bunch of people who can vouch for that, even so, fanfiction is a fun hobby that people enjoy doing and watching/reading/etc.
It's not a random mishmash of bullcrap fanboy banter clashed into a dissarray of vomit, I can vouch that they take a lot of time, effort and thought to put together, if you can't appreciate inspired literature, then dammit, don't read it, ignore it, it's not hurting you.
It's not your place to tell me what and what not to do based on your opinion.

Although I'm sure there is ok fanfiction SOMEWHERE, I'm sure all those stupid books for things like Halo and WoW got published for some reason, but I doubt that any of them can measure up to original books. And by the way find where I said "all fanfiction is bad". I never said that! I think you must actually BE one of those fanboys since you're having such a bad reaction to this.

And by the way, nothing personal, I don't even care if you are a sonic fanboy or not, I'm just saying that people tend to get most defensive when they are accused of being something they are.
Label me all you want, I extremely hate it when I'm stereotyped, grouped like a common sheep, because someone is being a pompus jerk, and not just on the internet.
I got defensive, because on an intended techicality, I and my work is included on your hate list, despite you never ever seeing it before.

As for the fanboy comment, this should contain my rebuttal and more.
 

Mattnumbers

Smash Master
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You know, in order for a stereotype to form, there has to be a good number of whatever the stereotype is. You yourself must admit how horrible most(errrrr some) fanfiction is.

I don't care when people make simple stories that go along relatively the same lines as the actual material they are making fiction out of, but when people write stupid things like mixing series, making up characters, adding themselves into the story, and adding things that you just know came from their stupid dream of what THEY would do if this or that character was real, all while making the whole story as ****ing corny as possible, It really annoys me that they have taken something good and ruined it. I am of a fan of things too you know, and I hate it when fans write stupid *** stories that then get praised by their stupid friends who ALSO write similar stories.
If you don't want people to make fun of sonic fans, convince the ones giving sonic fans a bad name by writing these stories to stop!

Also, your rebuttal was about people stereotyping Sonic Fans, which I never did, the only thing I've stereotyped so far is fanfiction BECAUSE IT DESERVES IT! I don't see how you see me as this stupid person that hates sonic, sonic fans, and anything related to fast hedgehogs, just because some sonic fans are annoying.

On a side note I need to learn to spell stereotype, I keep having to go back and change it from Steriotype.
 

VietGeek

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Joined
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Messages
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No, it's a hilarious banner I made based on ToV, I know you are aware of it.
I've never been to 4chan.
My sick humor inspired it.
Well...when ToV first came to the states...

there was a pic of some hawt RitaxRepede action

if u no wut i mean

=V
 

Sukai

Smash Champion
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turn around....
There's bad fanfiction, and there's also good fanfiction.
By saying you hate fanfiction in a general sense, you are also saying you despise the people making the fanfiction, so you are indirectly stereotyping the writers of it as well (to be stupid people, writing stupid stroies that other stupid people seems to enjoy).
Have it dawned on you that it's simply a matter of taste?

I appreciate fanfiction, because I used to write fanfiction, make new characters/enemies and what not, and still manage to make the story really epic, including various settings both new and familiar, fitting choices of word selection, plot depth and character development, all the things that are normally praised in good fictional literature.
So I know that it takes effort to do, especially when you're serious on getting it done right.
All the same, I don't consider myself neither stupid nor a fanboy, there are Sonic games I dislike to downright hate, both old and new, I don't collect memoribillia or any of that stuff, and at the most, I'll defend myself as a Sonic fan, I can't speak for other fans, and if you noticed, I haven't in any specific sense other than the fact that kids and teens writing inspired fictional literature is a healthy hobby, especially when you're passionate about it.
Stereotyping is unjustified nowadays, approach things neutral minded, with no assumptions on how good or bad it may be, if Sonic fanfiction isn't your cup of tea, then don't read it. Apparently there are "stupid" people who enjoy them well in your place. I'm not saying they're all good or they're all bad, unbiased, I am simply saying that it's a hobby I approve of as a healthy project to take interest in.
New characters isn't a bad thing, so as long as they're well developed, both conceptually and in the story, using a self-personafied character isn't a bad thing for the same reasons.

I get plenty of reviews of my Flash movies on how they appreciate what I did with the franchise, despite the fact that I do have a new character in it.

Direct Quote:
I really like what you did with this series.

The first thing worth praising is the way you portrayed the characters. They're all the way they should be, just no terrible voice acting or unnecessary dialogue. Unlike Sega, you take them seriously. It's nice.

The fight scenes are worth recognition. My only reccomendation is not having the camera zoomed out so much. And not just with fight scenes either. You see, any lover of hand-to-hand melee combat such as myself would pay attention to the actual fighting. We love to see what moves they perform. But we can't quite see what's going on when the characters onscreen are smaller than a tooth. For all we know, there are no actual fighting sprites and you're taking a single regular sprite and bouncing them off each other as an excuse for a fight. You get what I'm saying?

I liked the music choices. Since I hadn't played many 21st century Sonic games, I don't know what the song was in the title screen, but it's awesome.

I can't wait for the third installment to this series, nice work and good luck Knuxrouge. I love you, bye! :3
This is from someone who doesn't like new school sonic, so he really isn't considered a fan.
Is he stupid for liking it?
Am I stupid for making it?
If so, by who's jursdiction?
I guess the point is, don't stereotype it, just don't read any of it.
If you stereotype one thing, you're bound to passively stereotype another, which as you now know, leaves a really bad impression on the exceptions to your views.

Well...when ToV first came to the states...

there was a pic of some hawt RitaxRepede action

if u no wut i mean

=V
O.o
I made this one too.
 

cookieM0Nster

Smash Champion
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Messages
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You know what Matt2358? Just stop it. You are already in a pointless argument (yes there is some good fanfic, but yes a lot is not good), which will keep going on and on and on. I agree with knux, he is backing up his answer a whole lot more than you are. You are essentially saying that "oh, all fanfic is bad because i have only seen bad fanfic, bleh"

I have nothing against you, but next time, back up your answer with some proof.
 

Mattnumbers

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Messages
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Kirkland, Washington
The thing is, all that I have been arguing is that there is lots of bad fanfiction. And I feel that ban fanfic actually hurts me as a fan of whatever the fanfic is about, since people will then relate me to those people who write them. Knux is not even arguing the same thing as me she's doing the strawman argument, turning MINE into a "I hate all sonic fans and every fanfic ever made is ****" argument, which is much easier to disprove than my real argument, which was "some fanfic is really bad, and there is a lot of bad Sonic Fanfiction" which is obvious. It even all comes down to opinion, since things most people think are horrible, other people like (namely the person that made it". Knux keeps thinking my statements are generalized and then fighting against things I didn't even say.

Cookiemonster you just got fooled by the Straw Man Argument(that's a link by the way, it leads to the wikipedia page for The Straw Man Argument). And what are you talking about proof? Do I really have to go out and find a bad fanfic? Because I will if you really don't believe me.
 

cookieM0Nster

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I never said that, you just said earlier that I have never seen a good fanfic, and no fanfics are good or something like that

and i have no idea what the straw man argument is, and I have not been fooled by anything.
 

Mattnumbers

Smash Master
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Kirkland, Washington
I never said that, you just said earlier that I have never seen a good fanfic, and no fanfics are good or something like that

and i have no idea what the straw man argument is, and I have not been fooled by anything.
I said I have never seen a good fanfic, so what? Are you saying I've seen every fanfic that exists? And yes you have been fooled by the straw man, if you don't know what it is all you had to do was click on the link I provided and read the first paragraph.
 

GHNeko

Sega Stockholm Syndrome.
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You realize that pretty much everything you just said is an opinion as well, right? except for maybe sonic being the only "fast" platformer. I can make the only super-fast RPG, it doesn't mean its an amazing game. And although sonic was successful at first if you look at all the new games I would call the entire Sonic series a failure just because they managed to make it so bad.

Also some Sonic fans are just so STUPID, I mean look at the fanfic they write, I don't see many other series with nearly as much stupid crap as the Sonic fanbase produces. Not to say that any Sonic fans in here are bad in any way, notice I said "some".
...Did you read my post? Pretty much over majority of my post is factual based on history. A quarter of it is satirical. And the rest is opinion based, which isn't that much in the first place. wtf.

Also some of the *insert successful franchise here* fans are just so STUPID, I mean look at the *fan-generated media* they create, I don't see many other series with nearly as much stupid crap as the *insert successful franchise here* fanbase produces. Not to say that any other *insert successful franchise here* fans in here are bad in any way, notice I said "some"

And if you think Sonic is the worst? Why not walk over to Final Fantasy 7 son. Because you're REALLY missing out. <_>

Of course it's an opinion dip****. We are talking about video games and which ones are good and bad. My favorite game of all time is Ocarina of Time. Of course I know what overrated means. Still, I stand by my statement that I felt Sonic games were overrated. The speed is overrated when you first start playing the game. If anything it makes it worse. It's awesome for the first level or two and then the game throws random **** at you from off screen that you can't react to in time when you are:

1. That young
2. It's your first time through the game.

lol failure reaction time.lrn2platform. Sonic rarely went so fast (sans the Speed Shoes) that you couldn't follow what was going on at the screen. And random ****? What? Every object in the game is pre-placed and NOT randomly generated on the spot son.

They give you all this speed and then take it away from you with spikes, enemies and pits that are barely on screen before you gotta dodge them. Plus, maybe I haven't played in a while but I remember Sonic being a little slippery. Sure I see why people like old school Sonic games, but frankly I don't. I like the Adventure 1 and 2 (speed stages of course) and Unleashed on PS3/360.

"They gave you all these power ups and then take it away from you with spikes, enemies, and pits that are barely on screen before you gotta dodge them." - Platformers incarate.

Also, Sonic has never been slippery sans Ice-Specific platforms. Sonic has MORE friction than sonic if anything, its just that he has more kinetic energy most of the time so it seems like he's more slippery. :V

Adventure 1 and 2, while venturing into new territory, stick to their basic roots of speed and exploration AND expand upon it with the growth of technology. As does unleashed by going back to its roots during daytime stages. If you like those 3 games, you like the old school games because those 3 games compared to Sonic's other 3D games are the closests to their roots son.

And though most of Sega's console trouble was because of bad business choices, I find it kinda foolish that you think so many of the games for those later systems were great. Soul Calibur was the best game to come out of the last few Sega Consoles.

They were great because they were high quality enough to be remembered by gamers in GENERAL. To be remade on later consoles. To be given sequals. To be worth so much money when sealed and unopened. They're great games because you can go to a gamer of ANY generation and point out those games, and if they've played it, they will most likely give you nothing but positive remarks. Just like Mario. Just like Zelda. Just like Namco's Pacman and Konami's Vic Viper.

Also, we all know Nintendo is just a better company at designing games. There are more quality series being churned out from Nintendo then Sega's one trick pony. (Super Monkey sucks my nuts. Maybe if they had continued with NiGHTS you'd have something) And they are still in business. Sure, the last 2 years haven't been my favorite years for Nintendo, but they still have a lot of the undeniable quality few gaming publishers besides Blizzard can claim.

Nintendo is better at buisness but when it comes to designing games, in the old days, they were no better than Nintendo. When Sega first introduced Sonic and bundled it with the Genesis, Sega ****ing MOLESTED Nintendo in the Market by taking over 60% of the market share. They were good. No. They were great. Old Sonic team knew how to ****ing knock boots. From Sonic 1 all the way to S3K, Nintendo was sweating with Sega on their ***** constantly. And all they used was ****ing Sonic. Nintendo has Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, Metroid, and Sega was still matching them with nothing but a Blue Hedgehog, an Orange Fox, a Red Echidna, and a egg-shaped mad scientist. ALL MATCHED TO THE SAME SERIES. And there are just A-Game titles.

I still <3 you Neko

Good to know. <4

I'd like to see a list of Sega first party games cause I'd bet it's collective scoring would be somewhere in the 60s. Nintendo's would be somewhere in the high 80s.

Sonic Team of today scores ****ty because they have no one that MATTERS anymore on their A-Team. The ****ing father of SONIC LEFT SONIC TEAM. Nintendo still has plenty of staff that has been with them for ****ing ever, like oh...miyamoto? New Sonic team blows. Thusly, the Sonic games blow. I bet you, if you get Old Sonic team back together, it will be the 90s all over again and Sega would **** so hard they would join the hardware biz again with the dreamcast 2.

:V

Tencolon-vee
 

Mattnumbers

Smash Master
Joined
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Kirkland, Washington
...Did you read my post? Pretty much over majority of my post is factual based on history. A quarter of it is satirical. And the rest is opinion based, which isn't that much in the first place. wtf.

Also some of the *insert successful franchise here* fans are just so STUPID, I mean look at the *fan-generated media* they create, I don't see many other series with nearly as much stupid crap as the *insert successful franchise here* fanbase produces. Not to say that any other *insert successful franchise here* fans in here are bad in any way, notice I said "some"

And if you think Sonic is the worst? Why not walk over to Final Fantasy 7 son. Because you're REALLY missing out. <_>




:V

Tencolon-vee
Then you're more biased than Sakurai. It's complete opinion where you say the Sega Systems suck. I can say the same thing and say the Nintendo systems suck.

The reason they aren making any more consoles IS because of bad buisness*, you ignorant baboon*. They ****ed up starting with teh Sega CD and 32X*, both of them extremely bad buisness choices AND they were ****ty in design and functionality*. The games produced on them were nothing worthy of praise (sans Sonic CD and Knuckles Chaotix)*

Those poor buisness choices didnt stop at there either*. The Sega Saturn, while producing a few high quality games, was an expensive console and at the time, was over-priced, hurting their buisness even more*.

By the time they got it right with the DC*, they were so much in debt that continuing in the hardware buisness would only be a foolhearty decision*.

That's why they stopped making consoles. Not that buill**** your spewing from that hole on your face called a mouth, if you can even call it that after your post*.

And calling Old School Sonic overrated? 1. That an opinion. 2. Sonic had one thing no other platformer had at the time. Speed and Attitude*. Get the **** out with that "its overrated"

It was a high quality series and it deserved its reputation because it was GOOD and STILL IS*.

Your ignorance is overwhelming*. And I'm 100% serious and not trolling.

Still <3 you GoG



If you saw nothing special about Sonic, then you were and still are blind to why Sonic is *****.



Yea, I am going to be deadd serious here. I dont really lke Successful Franchies, period. They pretty much make the same game with new stuff added to each one.


u c wut i did thur :V
Lets see the only statements you made that weren't an opinion were

"That's why they stopped making consoles"
"1. Thats an opinion. 2. Sonic had one thing no other platformer had at the time. Speed and Attitude" (saying it was the only one with attitude is an opinion, but I'll let speed by since Sonic was the first to really make such a fast platformer)

Really, pretty much everything else is an opinion GHNeko, and if Sonic fanboys weren't worse than most if not all other fanboys in the fanfic they write, they wouldn't be so well known for it. I put an asterisk next to every statement that was an opinion btw.


Also, I would like to note that by "Fanfiction" I mean written stories, not video's or flash's. Although sometimes the flash's are dumb too, they tend to be much more thought out and less stupid in my experience.
 

cookieM0Nster

Smash Champion
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I said I have never seen a good fanfic, so what? Are you saying I've seen every fanfic that exists? And yes you have been fooled by the straw man, if you don't know what it is all you had to do was click on the link I provided and read the first paragraph.
lol, you haven't looked very hard then.

I have not been fooled by anything, butyou can believe whatever you want, its a free county,
I <3 AMERICA! OBAMA!!! :)
i really dont care what you think about me. Seriously, say what you want to say, whatever

and do i really want to read some wikipedia article while I am busy making .brstm files, lol
 

GHNeko

Sega Stockholm Syndrome.
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GHNeko
Lets see the only statements you made that weren't an opinion were

"That's why they stopped making consoles"
"1. Thats an opinion. 2. Sonic had one thing no other platformer had at the time. Speed and Attitude" (saying it was the only one with attitude is an opinion, but I'll let speed by since Sonic was the first to really make such a fast platformer)

Really, pretty much everything else is an opinion GHNeko, and if Sonic fanboys weren't worse than most if not all other fanboys in the fanfic they write, they wouldn't be so well known for it. I put an asterisk next to every statement that was an opinion btw.


Also, I would like to note that by "Fanfiction" I mean written stories, not video's or flash's. Although sometimes the flash's are dumb too, they tend to be much more thought out and less stupid in my experience.

...owow...


owowowowowowowowowow.

Let me show you what is what in my post because you obviously cant tell what is fact and what is opinion and what isnt either.

Then you're more biased than Sakurai. It's complete opinion where you say the Sega Systems suck. I can say the same thing and say the Nintendo systems suck.

The reason they aren making any more consoles IS because of bad buisness, you ignorant baboon. They ****ed up starting with teh Sega CD and 32X, both of them extremely bad buisness choices AND they were ****ty in design and functionality. The games produced on them were nothing worthy of praise (sans Sonic CD and Knuckles Chaotix)

Those poor buisness choices didnt stop at there either. The Sega Saturn, while producing a few high quality games, was an expensive console and at the time, was over-priced, hurting their buisness even more.

By the time they got it right with the DC, they were so much in debt that continuing in the hardware buisness would only be a foolhearty decision.

That's why they stopped making consoles. Not that buill**** your spewing from that hole on your face called a mouth, if you can even call it that after your post.


And calling Old School Sonic overrated? 1. That an opinion. 2. Sonic had one thing no other platformer had at the time. Speed and Attitude. Get the **** out with that "its overrated"

It was a high quality series and it deserved its reputation because it was GOOD and STILL IS.

Your ignorance is overwhelming. And I'm 100% serious and not trolling.

Still <3 you GoG



If you saw nothing special about Sonic, then you were and still are blind to why Sonic is ****.



Yea, I am going to be deadd serious here. I dont really lke Successful Franchies, period. They pretty much make the same game with new stuff added to each one.



u c wut i did thur :V
Sarcasm
Opinion
Factual

See?
Simple color coded easy to read break down of my post of what is factual, what is opinionated, and what is.

If you still deny what is and what isnt, then you need to brush up on your definition of what an opinion is, good sir.
 

kr3wman

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
4,639
Sega had great games, just that no one noticed them.

Gunstar Heroes
Dynamite Headdy
Streets of Rage
Sonic, lol
Power Stone
Soul Caliber
Jet Set Radio
NiGHTS
Ristar
Vectorman
Golden Axe
Crazy Taxi
Phantasy Star
Panzer Dragoon
Radiant Silvergun
Ikaruga
Ecco the Dolphin
Don't forget Shining Force!
 

cookieM0Nster

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
2,512
Location
oakland
Sarcasm
Opinion
Factual

See?
Simple color coded easy to read break down of my post of what is factual, what is opinionated, and what is.

If you still deny what is and what isnt, then you need to brush up on your definition of what an opinion is, good sir.
You forgot: White = BURN!

But seriously, I don't think that Matt knows his nouns from his adjectives, his facts from opinions, etc. lol
 

GHNeko

Sega Stockholm Syndrome.
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GHNeko
Sega had great games, just that no one noticed them.

Gunstar Heroes
Dynamite Headdy
Streets of Rage
Sonic, lol
Power Stone
Soul Calibur
Jet Set Radio
NiGHTS
Ristar
Vectorman
Golden Axe
Crazy Taxi (Can you even beat this? IIRC, it goes on forever. LOL.)
Phantasy Star

Panzer Dragoon
Radiant Silvergun
Ikaruga
Ecco the Dolphin
One's in red are the ones I've played.
One's in blue are the ones I've beaten.
One's in Green are ones I've almost beaten ie final boss.
One's in yellow are ones I've *****.

I may be a Sega fanboy, but god **** it I cant finish a game for ****. Rofl.

Also, I fail. I've never played NiGHTS or Panzer Dragoon. Those games are hella bad ***. I need to play them. D:
 

Mattnumbers

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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Location
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Lets break this down then Neko

The reason they aren making any more consoles IS because of bad buisness, you ignorant baboon*.
It's YOUR OPINION that I'm an ignorant baboon.

They ****ed up starting with teh Sega CD and 32X*
That is an opinion that they ****ed up with those two, maybe other people think those systems were fine

, both of them extremely bad buisness choices AND they were ****ty in design and functionality*.
It's only your opinion that they had a bad design, maybe some people thought it was a GOOD design

The games produced on them were nothing worthy of praise (sans Sonic CD and Knuckles Chaotix)*
This is pure opinion, as many other people probably liked different games, or didn't like the two you mentioned

Those poor buisness choices didnt stop at there either*.
The business choices were bad IN YOUR OPINION

The Sega Saturn, while producing a few high quality games, was an expensive console and at the time, was over-priced, hurting their buisness even more*.
It's your opinion that the games were high quality, and something being over-priced is also an opinion.

By the time they got it right with the DC*, they were so much in debt that continuing in the hardware buisness would only be a foolhearty decision*.
It's your opinion that it would be a foolhardy decision, although this one is close.

That's why they stopped making consoles. Not that buill**** your spewing from that hole on your face called a mouth, if you can even call it that after your post*.
That's just an insult, which is obviously your opinion.

And calling Old School Sonic overrated? 1. That an opinion. 2. Sonic had one thing no other platformer had at the time. Speed and Attitude*. Get the **** out with that "its overrated"
You acknowledged this part

It was a high quality series and it deserved its reputation because it was GOOD and STILL IS*.
You also acknowledged this

Your ignorance is overwhelming*. And I'm 100% serious and not trolling.
Calling my ignorance overwhelming is not stating a fact


So yes, most of that was pure opinion. You didn't actually state many FACTS at all, you just said stuff was bad, and different stuff was good. And you insulted me.

And Cookiemonster, your an idiot, make some points of your own. I can't believe you spent the time to post multiple times but you wouldn't read two paragraphs in a wikipedia article.

Seems like YOU are the one who isn't sure what an opinion is. Let me give you the definition.
An opinion is a belief that may or may not be backed up with evidence, but which cannot be proved with that evidence. It is normally a subjective statement and may be the result of an emotion or an interpretation of facts; people may draw opposing opinions from the same facts.
 

GHNeko

Sega Stockholm Syndrome.
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Lets break this down then Neko

The reason they aren making any more consoles IS because of bad buisness, you ignorant baboon*.
It's YOUR OPINION that I'm an ignorant baboon.
I never called you an ignorant baboon, and I forgot to color that statement an opinion.

They ****ed up starting with teh Sega CD and 32X*
That is an opinion that they ****ed up with those two, maybe other people think those systems were fine
Buisness wise, they ****ed up because those two system cost them alot in money. That's what I mean by they ****ed up with those two systems. They were expensive to make but barely sold at all, turning up a negative net profit in the long run.

, both of them extremely bad buisness choices AND they were ****ty in design and functionality*.
It's only your opinion that they had a bad design, maybe some people thought it was a GOOD design
They had bad design because the 32X and Sega CD required their own power sources rather than feed off the console it connected to. This is bad design. As it required 3 spare outlets for a fully loaded Sega Genesis, and this isnt including a TV.

The games produced on them were nothing worthy of praise (sans Sonic CD and Knuckles Chaotix)*
This is pure opinion, as many other people probably liked different games, or didn't like the two you mentioned
A majority of the games on the Sega CD and Chaotix get average to bad reviews, which one of the reasons why it didn't take off.

Those poor buisness choices didnt stop at there either*.
The business choices were bad IN YOUR OPINION
They were bad buisness choices because they were the start of sega's debt which only grew which eventually forced them out of the hardware buisness. If they didnt **** up on the 32X or Sega CD by either not creating it or designing it better or creating better software, they wouldn't of flopped and Sega wouldnt of lost so much money off it.

The Sega Saturn, while producing a few high quality games, was an expensive console and at the time, was over-priced, hurting their buisness even more*.
It's your opinion that the games were high quality, and something being over-priced is also an opinion.
In comparison to the consoles of its time, and the average cost of consoles at release in relation to the hardware itself, the console was considered overpriced as many consumers did not buy it simply for the price tag. And again, very few games got good reviews on the Sega Saturn in America. Though this is mostly for America, as the Saturn was an extremely popular console in Japan and had an exellent life span in Japan. :V

By the time they got it right with the DC*, they were so much in debt that continuing in the hardware buisness would only be a foolhearty decision*.
It's your opinion that it would be a foolhardy decision, although this one is close.
It was a foolhearty decision to continue as doing so with the debt that Sega had would of forced them into bankrupty. Yuji Naka wanted to continue, but the President of Sega of Japan said that doing so would **** the company over.

That's why they stopped making consoles. Not that buill**** your spewing from that hole on your face called a mouth, if you can even call it that after your post*.
That's just an insult, which is obviously your opinion.
Which is why I highlighted the first part. :V

And calling Old School Sonic overrated? 1. That an opinion. 2. Sonic had one thing no other platformer had at the time. Speed and Attitude*. Get the **** out with that "its overrated"
You acknowledged this part

It was a high quality series and it deserved its reputation because it was GOOD and STILL IS*.
You also acknowledged this

Your ignorance is overwhelming*. And I'm 100% serious and not trolling.
Calling my ignorance overwhelming is not stating a fact
This wasnt even aimed at you, and It's overwhelming to ME, so GoG's Ignorance overwhelms me. So that is a fact. :V


So yes, most of that was pure opinion. You didn't actually state many FACTS at all, you just said stuff was bad, and different stuff was good. And you insulted me.

And Cookiemonster, your an idiot, make some points of your own. I can't believe you spent the time to post multiple times but you wouldn't read two paragraphs in a wikipedia article.

Seems like YOU are the one who isn't sure what an opinion is. Let me give you the definition.

Get some son. I know wtf I'm talking about. I'm not spouting random bull**** from my mouth. Dont think I didnt look into WHY all this stupid *** **** happened to Sega, which was my childhood company as I grew up.
 

Mattnumbers

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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Although you have evidence to back up your opinions, they remain opinions. At least most of them, I guess a couple could be argued down to fact. Look over the definition of Opinion I posted, you will see that they truly ARE opinion. I'm not saying they are BAD opinions, I actually agree with most of them, I'm just stating that in the same post you criticized someone for using opinions you used opinions to back up your own point.
 

GHNeko

Sega Stockholm Syndrome.
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GHNeko
5 out of 8 of those points are factual. The rest are debatable. :V

I could probably prove the rest if I took to time to look up the articles I read years ago, but that requires searching around google and at this time of night, lolno.
 

Mattnumbers

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Kirkland, Washington
5 out of 8 of those points are factual. The rest are debatable. :V

I could probably prove the rest if I took to time to look up the articles I read years ago, but that requires searching around google and at this time of night, lolno.
I counted them, and out of the 9 That I counted:

3 weren't actually pertinant to the subject, or were misunderstandings (1st and last two)

2 of them I would concede to you as facts

4 of them were opinions

That's my count at least. You have some good EVIDENCE behind them, but words like "overpriced" are in themselves an opinion.
 

GHNeko

Sega Stockholm Syndrome.
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GHNeko
The saturn released at 399$ and the PSX released at 299$. The 64 launched at 199$.

And because of Sega's stupid buisness move the launch the saturn early without prior notice to ANYONE, the actual value of the Saturn ****ing plummited when buisness all over USA ****ted on Sega of America by supporting rivals and removing Sega merchandise from their shelves. 3rd party developers **** on them too because since they didnt know, they had no 3rd party games to launch with the Saturn, pretty much giving the Saturn a small selection of games at laucn which were completely 1st party. <_>

The Saturn was overpriced or at least became considered overpriced due to bad business moves.

o⋅ver⋅price
  /ˌoʊvərˈpraɪs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [oh-ver-prahys] Show IPA
Use overpriced in a Sentence
–verb (used with object), -priced, -pric⋅ing.
to price excessively high; set too high a price
Due to poor buisness choices, the value of the console went down. Poor 3rd party support and lack of sales bring down the value of a console. With the value of the console reduced, the initial priced, 399$ becomes too much for what the console becomes worth as a result of Sega's choices as they priced it at 399$ with good 3rd party support in mind and good sales based of momentum of the Genesis.


Saturn was overpriced. It was not worth 399$ at "surprise" launch. If they didnt try to jump the gun and stuck to their original plan, then maybe it would of been appropriately priced.
 

Mattnumbers

Smash Master
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Messages
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Saying something is overpriced will ALWAYS be an opinion, overpriced is a subjective word. If you said "Sega's console had a much higher price than the others and was thus considered to be overpriced by many consumers", THAT would be a fact.

The things you posted have facts behind them, but the way you posted it was using your opinion to convey those facts.


EDIT: I'm going to bed so I guess that's my final statement.
 

cookieM0Nster

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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And Cookiemonster, your an idiot, make some points of your own. I can't believe you spent the time to post multiple times but you wouldn't read two paragraphs in a wikipedia article.

Seems like YOU are the one who isn't sure what an opinion is. Let me give you the definition.
Wow, you are seriously stupid. I am an idiot? That, I must say, is a very stupid insult. Call me stupid, I won't care, because I know that I have excellent grades, in fact, yes, that isn't my opinion, it is a FACT.

An EDUCATED GUESS is a hypothesis based on fact. An opinion, yes, can have evidence, but what GHNeko stated was educated. As he said. My grandmother was an English proffessor. I would know.

And seriously? No better come back than "you are an idiot"? I couldcome up with much better than that, without crossing the extremely offensive line.

Hey, don't take it out on me because you touch yourself at night with a Macy's catalog, a microscope, and tweezers.

See, that was an insult. Without crossing the "your mom/race" line.
 

SimaMatt

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
261
Location
Wisconsin
Wow, this argument, debate, fight, whatever, is absolutely hilarious.

So on a lighter note, anyone got sf 4 for the pc? Add me: SimaMatty. I'm always up for games but I'll probably be watching evo livestream (hyyype) Saturday and Sunday.
 

cookieM0Nster

Smash Champion
Joined
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Wow, this argument, debate, fight, whatever, is absolutely hilarious.

So on a lighter note, anyone got sf 4 for the pc? Add me: SimaMatty. I'm always up for games but I'll probably be watching evo livestream (hyyype) Saturday and Sunday.
What, did you see my insult? Yeah, I live in Oakland, you pick up that sorta thing, lol
 

Sukai

Smash Champion
Joined
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turn around....
The thing is, all that I have been arguing is that there is lots of bad fanfiction. And I feel that ban fanfic actually hurts me as a fan of whatever the fanfic is about, since people will then relate me to those people who write them. Knux is not even arguing the same thing as me she's doing the strawman argument, turning MINE into a "I hate all sonic fans and every fanfic ever made is ****" argument, which is much easier to disprove than my real argument, which was "some fanfic is really bad, and there is a lot of bad Sonic Fanfiction" which is obvious. It even all comes down to opinion, since things most people think are horrible, other people like (namely the person that made it". Knux keeps thinking my statements are generalized and then fighting against things I didn't even say.
No, you said you stereotype Sonic fanfiction.
You admitted it.
YOU ADMITTED IT AND AT NO POINT DENIED IT, THEN TRIED TO JUSTIFY IT.
Should I quote your words????

You know, in order for a stereotype to form, there has to be a good number of whatever the stereotype is. You yourself must admit how horrible most(errrrr some) fanfiction is.

^Attempts at Justifications^

I don't care when people make simple stories that go along relatively the same lines as the actual material they are making fiction out of, but when people write stupid things like mixing series, making up characters, adding themselves into the story, and adding things that you just know came from their stupid dream of what THEY would do if this or that character was real, all while making the whole story as ****ing corny as possible, It really annoys me that they have taken something good and ruined it. I am of a fan of things too you know, and I hate it when fans write stupid *** stories that then get praised by their stupid friends who ALSO write similar stories.
If you don't want people to make fun of sonic fans, convince the ones giving sonic fans a bad name by writing these stories to stop!

^Attempts at Justifications based on opinion^

Also, your rebuttal was about people stereotyping Sonic Fans, which I never did, the only thing I've stereotyped so far is fanfiction BECAUSE IT DESERVES IT!

Confession
Don't try to mix up your point, when you already proved mine, that's the **** that loses credibility in people.

Pick you words right, iterate them right and don't get caught in a your own paradox that flat out, no johns destroys your credibility.


You lost Matt, stop trying, your grave is too deep.
GG.
In unrelated news....
It's a trap!
 

goodoldganon

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Cleveland, Ohio
I didn't mean to start a flame war, but since Neko won't step in and be the bigger man I'm ending it NOW. I'll drag a mod in here and shut all of you up. Get over it. The three of you took a relatively low key fun topic into and turned it into a piss and moan fest and frankly NO ONE else wants to hear about it anymore. So cut it out and discuss something else.
 

Arkaether

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
680
Location
North Carolina
JESUS ****ING CHRIST ARE YOU GUYS SERIOUS?

Matt, GHNeko, I thought you guys were better than this. Flame wars and wall of texts because one of you likes sega and the other doesn't? Seriously? I'd find it hilarious except that it's just sad. You guys are seriously as bad as the fanboys who start consoles wars and ***** about whose console is "better". This is a social thread. This is for fun. Not to mention the whole argument is absurd in the first place.

on a related note: reading fanfiction is like watching someone else jack off.

on an unrelated note: Who here likes cake?
 
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